[Closed] Cwmcarn trail repairs - Oh deary me...

Lets hope it's just work in progress and the next step isn't to cover it in kitty litter!

I agree was there yesterday and a mess sums it up. Not sure what they thought they were doing removing all the rock from the part of trail that runs down next to the road after the top descent. It's all mud now and super slick...I went off quickly expecting to get grip and was sliding everywhere, I don't mind this usually but not when you are 2 foot from the road.

Lets hope the new trails are better surfaced.

Is it a mess or is it just that its no longer pseudo Tarmac trails?

Ditto the Graveyard section of Y Wal at Afan. It's never been "pseudo tarmac" 🙄 but it's never been sketchy mud-surfing either.

Looks like repairs have been done in a quick and dirty fashion using material borrowed from the backslope of the trail, which isn't really on when the trails have recently had such a massive funding boost.

Stiggy - Member

Lets hope it's just work in progress and the next step isn't to cover it in kitty litter!

According to internet wisdom about building dirt jumps, mixing fuller's earth in with your dirt makes it rock hard once it dries. So maybe kitty litter would be an improvement.

I agree, the berms by the BBQ section are bonkers too small to use but you have to come off line to get any sort of flow but then you are on the right line for face planting! I can only imagine what the closed section is going to be like after 🙁

The one area that does need fixing is the brake bumps coming down to the car park at the end...........not smoothing out but just a bit of maintenance would sort it out!

Brake bumps last section? There were none there last weekend

As you come of the road for the last section, I assure you there are sir!

Got to agree with mr agreeable. Rode w2 on Friday and the graveyard has been turned from fast flowy to a slower slog in sections. The nice rocky sections have been replaced with clay mud dragged from the trail sides.

Sounds like such a shame, it was the first trail centre I visited and regularly made the Sunday drive there from Somerset. Haven't been back for years but am thinking about another "Tour of Wales (mtb centres)" sometime.

They a done similar at Brechfa - filled in brake bumps etc with mud and 6 inch drift of kitty litter which is like hitting a load of sand at speed.

Could it be that they're laying down a surface now in preparation for Summer when they think that numbers may be higher? Genuine question, having not seen it.

What they've done to cwmcarn is tragic. Whoever made that decision should be sacked immediately.
Anyone who's ever ridden cwmcarn knows its never been pseudo Tarmac. That's left for the Surrey dwellers.
The south welsh trail centres are being completely ruined. The only new section of trail. I've ridden and enjoyed is the little option on 373. The rest could be ridden on a BMX.
PUT SOME ****ING ROCKS IN.
South Wales isnt and shouldn't be smooth beginner riding on red trails.

Yeah everyone trails are only ment to be ridden in the summer didn't you know

Pictures might help..

Rode w2 on Friday and the graveyard has been turned from fast flowy to a slower slog in sections.

I seem to remember "back in the day" when you practically needed trials riding skills to clear the Graveyard, you had to pick a line between or over rocks, trees and narrow causeways to get through it. Was why it was called the Graveyard I believe. Funny how trails change over the years (and bikes I guess) and how peoples' likes and expectations also change 8)

[quote=greeble ]Yeah everyone trails are only ment to be ridden in the summer didn't you know

Not at all what I meant. I imagine that it's pretty difficult to keep trails in good shape 100% of the time so maybe they're taking the hit of them being less good now when there's probably less traffic on them?

The Graveyard isn't smoothed out at all (they've built a diversion past the particularly tricky section, but you can still ride it). It's just they've tried to fix some of the divots in the trail with materials that aren't up to the job. Whether they were caught out by the recent wet weather, I don't know. The new sections are smoother but the trail in general is as kidney-shaking as it's ever been.

The new bike park there is absolutely awesome, bar the muddy mess at the start. The new extension is good too but could do with some big rocks where the trail drops away, rather than just relying on the base material. I don't think it's even officially open yet but already there are some sizable chunks missing from it.

There's been a couple of times where we've done a repair and the weather's killed it before it can settle in- particularily when the trail's been kept open. So it could just be as simple as that, or it could be they've totally screwed up.

Is it Cognation that do the work?

Don't panic, I heard they're going to tarmac all of the Welsh trail centres to keep STW users happy and free from rocks, mud, roots and braking bumps.

On a more serious note, could thy not have done this as a quick fix until the weather improves enough to fix them properly once the rain/snow/freezing conditions have passed as it can't be good practice to repair the trails onto of wet or frozen foundations.

Tom KP

Don't panic, I heard they're going to tarmac all of the Welsh trail centres to keep STW users happy and free from rocks, mud, roots and braking bumps.

What an odd comment.
People are complaining about trail sanitisation, or have you failed to read any of the thread?

I think he was being sarcastic...

Sorry, I was being sarcastic. I just get fed up with all the threads people make about trails with bumps in them. Personally I am guessing that they're just temporary fixes until the weather is better. They know that these trails get lots of people using them and probably don't want to do a half arsed job fixing them when they can wait and put in something that will last longer with the high usage.

Rode it on Friday, the place is being ruined. The bit from the freeride section is exactly as dan45a says, sloppy poo-coloured mud with no stability to it whatsoever. Probably more dangerous than the rocks and roots that were there before 😯

The section leading down to the concrete ramp is going to be super-smooth with berms where it used to be rocky, rooty and a proper challenge. There was a mini-digger sculpting it when I went past, a proper mess from what I could see. Used to be about 2 feet wide, now 2 metres at minimum.

And Yes, it's Cognation that are doing the work. Not temporary fixes either 🙁

RIP Cwmcarn, it was good knowing you all these years.*

*I was on one of the first dig days there and have a special fondness for the place, up there with CYB.

Sorry, I was being sarcastic. I just get fed up with all the threads people make about trails with bumps in them.

This is bad news, those bits were great just a couple of weeks ago! And haven't Cognation got the tender for all the South Wales centres?

RIP Cwmcarn, it was good knowing you all these years.

Spot the drama-queen...

Some folks are talking about removing rocks and roots- it's a lot of work to dig out that sort of thing, are you sure that's what's happened, or has the trail just been filled to a higher level?

(one of the least understood trailbuilding tricks, is to bury and compact a worn section so that when it gets unearthed again by natural weathering and riding it's been refreshed, all the wee voids are filled and the roots and rocks are stabilised and surrounded by better material. Every time it's done at Glentress, the internet goes mental but when the old trail reappears people seem not to notice. See: Magic Mushroom)

cwmcarn has always been a very boring featureless descent i don't know what people are getting upset about, can't ruin something that's already crap.

cwmcarn has always been a very boring featureless descent i don't know what people are getting upset about, can't ruin something that's already crap.

You've never ridden Cannock then.........

The bits being talked about were good bits though

Its a shame as Cymcarn is such a nice place to be. Amazing views, that lovely river, plentiful magic mushrooms in autumn 😉

FOD is so much better now, i rarely bother with Cymcarn.

Rode Cwmcarn on Sat too for the first time in a wee while. Those bits that people are talking about are indeed a muddy mess. Couldn't really see what was being 'repaired' in the section that runs alongside the road. I guess I also have a certain fondness for the older style rocky, rooty, narrow stuff which is slowly getting lost from the existing built trails when they get maintained/ repaired. The bikepark at Afan is good example of where the smooth/wide stuff with jumps & berms etc work really well and the builders have done a grand job with a small area of land, but it would be nice if the people responsible for maintenance and new build (Cognation et al) sought to preserve the sorts of features that made the original trails interesting (and therefore popular) to ride in the first place.

PSLING- I seem to remember "back in the day" when you practically needed trials riding skills to clear the Graveyard, you had to pick a line between or over rocks, trees and narrow causeways to get through it. Was why it was called the Graveyard I believe. Funny how trails change over the years (and bikes I guess) and how peoples' likes and expectations also change.

HA - that trails only been about for around 10-12 years - hardly back in the day! Anyway the section you are on about is still there just not obvious and ridden each time I visit.The trail has hardly changed from when I rode it when it opened!

I don't know if it's relevant as I've not ridden the XC for ages but a year or so ago work was done on the middle section of the DH track at CwmCarn.
(The bit from under the road to the road drop)
When they had completed it I thought they had ruined the section, it was all smooth with no grip anywhere where there used to be rough scrabbly ruts that were fun.
Now it is better than ever imo, it's matured into a very fast section with enough roughness to keep it interesting.
They knew what they were doing, it seems.
Perhaps it's a similar thing with the XC, hopefully.

HA - that trails only been about for around 10-12 years - hardly back in the day!

Well aint you the man..

Rode Cwmcarn yesterday evening.......they have hardened up the bit of track that was as slippery as hell on Saturday. It's more or les a flat out pump down the side of the road now. They are also sorting out the drainage on the trails after the diversion on the forest road that we have to take at the moment (sorry been riding the Twrch for years now but don't know the sections). This bit might be a better improvement IMO.

It seems more improvements are being made the last rocky descent is having all the rocks and stones removed. And its being widened
Something like this
[img] [/img]

^^^

one of the least understood trailbuilding tricks, is to bury and compact a worn section so that when it gets unearthed again by natural weathering and riding it's been refreshed, all the wee voids are filled and the roots and rocks are stabilised and surrounded by better material. Every time it's done at Glentress, the internet goes mental but when the old trail reappears people seem not to notice. See: Magic Mushroom)

-Northwind

The stone had actually been removed northwind.

Its a boggy mess.

You can clearly see a load of stoney rubble to the right as you look at the pic 😯

That's not cwmcarn. Its a pic I had to hand that is similar to what they have done.
I'm sure the Surrey weekend warriors will post up some pics once they get back

Is that pic of cwmcarn?
Ah. Beaten to it.

No hence the something like this comment

Am I the only one here who likes nothing more than putting on a set of wet screams and hitting a muddy as **** dh track?

Wet, loose and so muddy that you look like a swamp monster at the bottom is where it's at!

Less of this please, I'm off via their shortly to Afan on what is supposed to be a weekend to revive my MTB-ism after all this rain...

bwaarp - Member
Am I the only one here who likes nothing more than putting on a set of wet screams and hitting a muddy as **** dh track?

Wet, loose and so muddy that you look like a swamp monster at the bottom is where it's at!

well yes, but this is on the XC route from what I can tell

Meh I guess, I'm sure they have their reasons though.

Unless they've been using non-bikers to fix the trails.

I ride at cwmcarn every week , was there on Friday in heavy rain and the repair work was a muddy mess but when it's all bedded in again I think it will be great . As I said I'm there every week and since Xmas with all the snow and rain we've had the trail was getting quite eroded , I've had more pinch flats in the last few months than I had in all of last year. Once it dries out and beds in it will be back in top form I think.

Jury's still out on this. The section at the side of the road has improved since they threw some hardcore on it. The big gulley in the berm is still there though. Ridden it about 8 times now and still can't find a decent line through it (before you flame me and suggest a skills course, I ride Cwmcarn about 150 times a year so know my way round it pretty well). I'm not saying that it didn't need a bit of maintainence, but it seems to have taken away a lot of the character of the trail, rooty and rocky was always the signature of Cwmcarn. I hope, as some have said, that it comes back better with time...

I went to Afan & rode W2 on Monday, apart from the Whites level ascent diversion which is a pretty grim push up in ankle deep mud (but only temporary while the logging takes place) everything else was great, a bit of standing water about but I had a fantastic day out !!

not ridden cwmcarn since it was fixed but ime us kids pulling skids and british weather soon wash away the soft stuff and leave it interesting again

Perhaps we need to consider that the trail building company is bidding to win the contract. They will have to bid low and build to a price. They are not judged by us who ride it.

Naturally you will end up with trails that are cheap to make, easy to make and safe.

No chances will be taken, corners will be cut.

Trimix has it in one. Trails aren't being made well, they're being made cheap. Personally, I'd sooner have 10k of challenging, rocky, rooty, steep stuff than 20k of 6ft wide tarmac motorway.

[i]I went to Afan & rode W2 on Monday, apart from the Whites level ascent diversion which is a pretty grim push up [/i]

Ladyboy 😉

Blaengarw is where its at for a dose of Rockyness in South Wales.
Rowan Sorrell has doen an amazing job with this short loop and bodes well for Gethin
As for Cwmcarn stick to the DH and the natural stuff