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Looking to lose weight from new T130 so starting off with the wheels, going to get some Pro 4 Boost hubs and using Stan's Arch MK3 rims. Pretty settled on these as I can get a good price through work but only question mark is spokes. Do I keep it sensible and go for 32 hole F & R and DT Competitions which we keep in stock or go for 28 hole F & R and DT revolution spokes? The Rev's save about 150g on the build so a considerable chunk and I've never been that hard on wheels, the most I've ever done is put a significant ding in an old Stan's Crest while doing the Red at Antur Stiniog so pushing it way beyond what it was meant for. The DT comps I can get through work cheaply but the rev's would be ordered from the US and work out about £50 more, my question is it worth it and which would you go for?
I build all my wheels and im not keen on Revs, used them on a build and they require more regular trueing than my wheels built with Competitions.
If you're dead set on losing weight from the spokes, Id rather have 28 comps than 32 revs.
D-lights
2nd D-Lights - JRA seem to keep a good stock.
I'd use Comps. And 32 hole.
Unless you've definitely settled on Hopes and Stans (possibly due to what you can get a good price on) I'd look at alternative hubs and rims for additional right saving instead.
Check out Rose Bikes for DT spokes. I've found them cheaper there than UK trade.
rev's would be ordered from the US and work out about £50 more
[url= https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;product=15718;menu=1000,2,302,303;mid%5B69%5D=1;pgc%5B16666%5D%5B16680%5D=1;page=2 ]Cheap Revs from Europe[/url]
"I build all my wheels and im not keen on Revs, used them on a build and they require more regular trueing than my wheels built with Competitions."
Strange. I would have thought that wheels going out of true would indicate an issue with spokes losing tension, as they are 'stretched' (after tensioning). Revolutions are high quality, and I would have thought more resistant to deformation of any kind, than cheaper spokes. Revolutions are certainly thinner than Comps, but would this make a difference?
I've built several sets of wheels with Revs (my preferred spokes), and never suffered any issues. Wheels have never needed more than very slight truing very occasionally. Never had a spoke break on any wheel I've ever built.
If you are light on wheels then revs may well be OK. I prefer higher spoke counts as they allow higher tension, which I think matters.
clodhopper - Member
Strange. I would have thought that wheels going out of true would indicate an issue with spokes losing tension, as they are 'stretched'. Revolutions are high quality, and I would have thought more resistant to deformation of any kind, than cheaper spokes. Revulutions are certainly thinner than Comps, but would this make a difference?
Of course it does.
32 hole just for future compatibility and choice, pretty much ever rim I'll ever want to put on a mountain bike has a 32 hole option but quite a few don't have 28.
DT Comp Race seems a good option but it's not so common, and bloody awkward to google for. I could only find them by the box last time I looked.
Dont the new T130's come with 30mm WTB rims and pretty decent hubs? I wouldnt have thought you would save any real world noticeable difference between the stock wheels and hope/stans combo? Maybe 100-200 grams per set which on an MTB isnt as much of a difference as it would be on a road bike.
I'm fond of 32x light butted spokes for my builds. The extra stretch to reach their tension means that when the wheel is coping with a load, the rim has more of a chance to spread the load across multiple spokes. Seeing as the tendency these days is for under-specified rims (Arch is 425g in 27.5) I think it is a combination that makes sense.
If you have the flimsiest of rims on widely spaced, stiff spokes...
... the stiff spoke requires the least rim deflection until the spoke is unloaded (AKA wheel integrity compromised)
... the local rim deflection at the loaded spoke doesn't translate into much deflection at the neighbouring spokes (the load is not shared) because...
....1. the rim stiffness is feeble and the rim just deflects locally
....2. the spokes are widely spaced, so the flimsiness of the rim is exacerbated
You can mitigate in three ways (with an over-simplistic scoring method):
A. stiffer rim (weight score: +1, integrity score +1, stiffness score +1)
B. more elastic spokes (weight score: -1, integrity score +1, stiffness score -1)
C. more spokes (weight score: +1, integrity score +1, stiffness score +1)
Basically at this stage you can optimise with consideration of your load case/use case, realising that every choice is a compromise. I seem to be able to get good all round use out of 460g 27.5 rims with 32x 2.0/1.5/2.0 types spokes so that looks like a combo of choices 2 and 3 above (weight +0, integrity +2, stiffness +0).
As per STW roolz, remember this is a dumbed down justification of my own choices and my starting point is neither of your choices. If we change the starting point to Arch, DT Competition, 32x ....
Going to DT Revs and 28x is B. - C. = weight score -2, integrity score +0, stiffness score -2
"Of course it does."
But how. Genuine question; I'm not a physicist/mechanical engineer. Just trying to understand.
I prefer 28 heavier spokes over 32 light ones. They build better, are cheaper and easier to source (as a rule) They normally weigh a touch more but they produce I believe slightly stiffer wheelsets, but its the ease of life that does it for me. All the rims I like are 28H available so thats not an issue for me.
The DT spoke calculator is great for working out weights etc with different spokes/spoke counts.
I went 28h for my new wheels but, as Ben said, went for a slightly heavier, straight pull spoke (DT Aerocomps from Revs 32h rims)
https://spokes-calculator.dtswiss.com/en/calculator
Thanks for the feedback all 🙂
Originally I wanted to use DT super comps but as I could only find them in boxes and would need two lengths the build price just got silly!
I've asked JRA if they can do the lengths I need in D-lights, seems a popular choice and not much more expensive than Comps and cheaper than Revs. The wheels on my T130C RS are nice but damn heavy, about 2kg for the pair as they use ARC 30 rims and champion plain gauge spokes so while nice are not the lightest. Been using that DT calculator today and a 28 hole pair will come in around 1.7kg so a fair old chunk off the weight of the old wheels. Hopefully JRA can sort the spokes and I'll be good to go!
Super comps available on bike24.de in a wide variety of lengths. €1 a time.
I have DT Comp Race on my Reign laced into XM481 rims and DT350 hubs and they have stood up to my 90kg lumpen riding style for over a year now.