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I'm considering going custom-made and am browsing Donhou, Saffron, Feather, Burls, Pegoretti etc...
Who has one (or another brand)? And any real-world rider/owner reports they'd care to share?
A friend is mid-build through Quirk Cycles. He spent about 2 years previously speaking to different framebuilders before going [i]quirky[/i].
I've had a Pego since 2008 or so, but when I bought the frame it was about half the price they are now - I'd not buy one at current prices. It took about a year to arrive too, though I think he's putting out more frames nowadays; it's a bigger operation. It was still in daily use up until a month ago when I broke yet another (the third) crank.
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That Pegoretti is lush!
My personal choice would be between
Kevin Winter
Ted James Design
or a Cherubim from Japan
Enigma for me.
[url= https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8564/16486643566_96c5e7f4d2_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8564/16486643566_96c5e7f4d2_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
Basically a stock medium Elite HSS, but with a small seatube/rear triangle as I like compact frames. With hindsight I should have asked for the HT to be 5mm shorter, but 18 bikes knocked me up a superthin headset top cover and that's solved the issue.
Not too spendy in the world of custom frames, very easy to deal with, especially Jaco the paint guy, no hard sell and they were open to a bit of haggling over the "custom" geo costs, and it turned up when they said it would. Rides like a dream. Overall very happy.
<<edit>> If I had LOTS of cash, no 2 ways about it, I'd be talking to Rob English...
I saw Titchmarsh at last years York Rally and they were *very* nice.
I have a ted james, excellent. I do work for Bespoked and know the scene and builders pretty well...my UK choice:
Feather
Saffron
Field
Rourke
Talbot
Demon
Paulos Quiros
Donhou
Hartley
Shand
Euro ti:
Wittson
Mawis
All of these builders really know their stuff behind the paint.
Isn't Roberts-the-younger in the business?
Have people forgotten Argos Racing Cycles, Brizzle?
Legend do some steel, [url= http://www.legendbybertoletti.it/index.php?lang=ing ]http://www.legendbybertoletti.it/index.php?lang=ing[/url]
Dan Titchmarsh............luuuuursh.
Ted James.
Builds great bikes, lovely bloke to boot, plus he helped me build my own custom steel creation at TBA.
I have a Reilly RS7 (stainless steel) arriving tomorrow!
I'll drop some pics in here after it arrives - it's taken around 6 months but hopefully worth the wait!!
Shand for me...
I have a ted james, excellent. I do work for Bespoked and know the scene and builders pretty well...my UK choice:
Feather
Saffron
Field
Rourke
Talbot
Demon
Paulos Quiros
Donhou
Hartley
ShandEuro ti:
Tang... interesting list.. why Feather at the top? I've been looking at them and they do look pretty nice.. but better than Donhou, Saffron, Demon?
Paulos Quiros here. Jose actually wanted to go for a ride with me first to see my position, how I rode. I was described as pedalling 'like a typical mountainbiker' 😀
Know a few lads who ride with Ricky Feather. Not sure if it's still the same, but a short while back there was around an 18 month wait for a frame.
Sorry, should have put 'in no particular order'. Feather brazing is very good, and the attention that goes in even though it's getting painted is incredible.
Shand have a top tig welder, Mathew at Saffron is also so tidy. Ted James mills everything himself, Caren Hartley has such a good detail on forks and bridges. Tom Demon spends 3 plus weeks on a frame and will bin it if it's not absolutely spot on.
That's another thing I love to see, builders who can make a good fork.
I have a Rowan Frameworks. His work seems to be in demand and the finished product is good.
Talk to Chipps of Singletrack fame; based on his recent article he knows his stuff 😆
Depends what you want and why, you won't go wrong with any builder who has experience with the kind of bike you're after. There's a great choice of talented builders in the UK. They will all have specialisms and unique touches so you could pick based on that. It's a personal choice.
I always wanted a Rourke road bike when I was younger and earning weekend job money. My local-ish shop back then. Still do want one, just no real need now. I'd need a good reason to talk to anyone but Steven Shand for the kind of bike I'd be most likely to order these days. Also like the idea of buying from a builder in Europe then riding it home, but Edinburgh will do, far enough.
Turned up today…..!!
Reilly RS7 Stainless custom build - 6 months build time - and man am I happy with it!! Spent the afternoon building it up….hopefully it'll get a ride over the weekend
The fillet brazing is amazing…..paint perfect….love it!
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I bought a Stoemper. Liked it so much I bought another one. Not British but sort of Belgian / American. Both frames are beautifully welded and amazing to ride. They do some quality paint schemes as well AND have a cool head badge (which is obviously essential)
As Jameso says, you're unlikely to go wrong with anyone these days as the level is so high. I chose Richard Hallett to build my 953 track bike for a variety of reasons, one being that it's a machine to be raced hard against carbon super bikes so I wanted to really talk through the engineering of every tube dimension; it was worth it! The brazing is also superb and on display.
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Wow!
Just Wow!
Lovely frame Phil. Hallett used to be such a grumpy git when you raced against him. Helpfully he's mellowed now as a frame builder. Good engineer though.
I believe he was taught by the much missed Cliff Shrub.
I've two Dave Yates frames - not sure if he still builds any more?
My Rourke feels like an extention of my arms and legs. I wouldn't look any further.
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i have Pegoretti duende, it's currently back with Dario having a new coat of paint and a new fork (falz) fitted.
It's 12 years old and time for a refresh. It's the best riding bike I have ever ridden and wouldn't part with it for anything.
It's one of those bikes you forget about in that it's not 'zingy' or stiff or some other adjective it's just that no negatives jump out at you so you concentrate on the ride not what you are riding.
I also have a Chesini which while it's a very similar tubeset it's nowhere near as nice to ride and I wouldn't recommend one, I would recommend a Casati though having ridden a couple and visited the factory.
TBH I'm not convinced by a lot of the new framebuilders who excell at fancy paint jobs and have little racing/riding experience or feedback from a lot of customers (who are buying a bike to ride not just to photograph and impress their mates) although it's just a couple of triangles welded together it's not that easy to make a bike ride well (my own 2 Columbus spirit tubed frames have shown me that)
I found this video which sums up why I personally wouldn't buy the 5th frame out of a framebuilders workshop but the 5000th. "Design a nice website, get a booth at NAHBS, call yourself a framebuilder"
[url= https://www.dorftv.at/video/26825 ]https://www.dorftv.at/video/26825[/url]
Choose your builder carefully, pick the builder not the paint job (this is assuming you want to ride it not weigh it and photograph it)
i have Pegoretti duende, it's currently back with Dario having a new coat of paint and a new fork (falz) fitted.
It's 12 years old and time for a refresh. It's the best riding bike I have ever ridden and wouldn't part with it for anything.
It's one of those bikes you forget about in that it's not 'zingy' or stiff or some other adjective it's just that no negatives jump out at you so you concentrate on the ride not what you are riding.
I also have a Chesini which while it's a very similar tubeset it's nowhere near as nice to ride and I wouldn't recommend one, I would recommend a Casati though having ridden a couple and visited the factory.TBH I'm not convinced by a lot of the new framebuilders who excell at fancy paint jobs and have little racing/riding experience or feedback from a lot of customers (who are buying a bike to ride not just to photograph and impress their mates) although it's just a couple of triangles welded together it's not that easy to make a bike ride well (my own 2 Columbus spirit tubed frames have shown me that)
I found this video which sums up why I personally wouldn't buy the 5th frame out of a framebuilders workshop but the 5000th. "Design a nice website, get a booth at NAHBS, call yourself a framebuilder"
https://www.dorftv.at/video/26825Choose your builder carefully, pick the builder not the paint job (this is assuming you want to ride it not weigh it and photograph it)
fact
As per MrSmith, part of what you're paying for is experience. Seems odd that all these new artisan framebuilders cost so much more than a Rourke, who've been building frames forever.
You need to find someone who can fit you and then take your numbers and build a frame to suit. Pegoretti build race frames that're designed to be setup like Bob's up there. If you don't ride in that position, then you need to find someone who can get you sorted so you can, otherwise you'll end up with a bike that handles badly.
If you're considering a Pegoretti, have a wade through this. https://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f11/dario-pegoretti-4292.html
What do you hope to get from a frame by going custom?
I had a frame built for me by a low volume framebuilder, and it was not very good.
It had to go back to the framebuilder to have the seat tube reamed again so I could actually put a seat post in it.
When I did get to ride it, it kept trying to steer me into a ditch. Something about the geometry was very strange and I had no confidence going downhill on it.
The two nicest steel frames I have ridden (and still own) are a 1998 Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra (Columbus SLX) and a 1994 Colnago Superissimo (Columbus brain with master lugs).
Both mass produced frames but (crucially) from brands with lots of racing heritage.
Had a look at your link davidtaylforth and on the first page I've already shot my bolt, this thing is beautiful. Afraid to keep going on...
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Waterford R33......it's the most beautiful fast ride, an out and out race bike, they can do everything thing from lugged classics to crib bikes, mine was built to a Merckx style crit geometry, just stunning. It the one bike I'd never ever sell.
Couple of gooduns
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Completely agree with Mr Smith and davidtaylforth: too many of the custom builders named in this thread appear to have gone straight to the low volume/artisan end of the market, without having accumulated the experience of building lots of frames for lots of different customers. Many those artisan builders seem to spend a lot of their time on functionally useless decorative over-ornamentation of their frames to satisfy silly fads and whims of their own and their customers, who seem to value a frame that photgraphs well more than how it rides.
Pegoretti is famous for his fancy paint jobs, but the difference between him and the UK artisan builders is that the paint jobs are simply the icing on the cake (if you like them) on a frame built by probably the greatest custom steel race frame builder (the man who built Pinarello's team frames for Indurain and many other top riders in the pro peloton, having himself served his apprenticeship under another italian master framebuilder).
Dave Yates used to run M Steel's frame building workshop, and has built/supervised the construction of many thousands of frames. Like Pegoretti he was a racer himself, and he also was a mile eating audax rider who has completed Paris-Brest-Paris and London-Edinburgh-London, and that experience has strongly influenced what he recommends and builds.
You go to guys like these and Rourke and Shand for their experience and knowledge of what makes a great bike to ride, not for some fancy pointless decoration which took the builder half a week to make.
Invicta Frameworks out of Downland Cycles in Kent are worth a look. Bryan the builder there [b]really[/b] knows his stuff and really cares about what you'll use it for etc.
You would be amazed, but we at Bespoked deal with enquiries from people who have never built a frame for a customer, yet don't want a new builder stand. Nice websites mind.
Nice enigma on ebay at mo...
SS
That video again (it will not embed), seems Tang has had the same. That's what happens when you think you are an expert in something because you watched a couple of YouTube videos
[url= http://www.dorftv.at/embed/26825 ]www.dorftv.at/embed/26825[/url]
I know somebody who bought the first Ti frame out of a well known one man frame builders workshop. No way would I buy the first Ti frame from somebody who,has only done fillet brazed/ lugged construction before. Tig (especially thin walled Ti) is a whole new ball game.
this pretty much summed it up for me
https://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2/custom-bike-segment-43836-post762527.html#post762527 post 163
the other lad had a valid point also
https://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2/custom-bike-segment-43836-post762599.html#post762599
pick the builder not the paint job
Little bit of irony there when selecting a Peg, no? 😉
But I agree with your points. Rather than a nice steel frame, I bought something a little faster for my special birthday (Hed Jet Plus disc wheel!)
I do love a [url= https://www.dario-pegoretti.com/ciavete/ ]ciavete [/url]paint scheme, but just can't justify (another) road frame really
It seems to me that a lot of custom builders are making very nice looking frames using off the shelf tubing. It's interesting that we describe them as "custom" yet a manufacturer designing and specifying a custom tubeset in standard sizes would not be.
Biased as Gav is a friend of mine but his frames are lovely:
[url= http://www.augustbicycles.cc/ ]http://www.augustbicycles.cc/[/url]
Little bit of irony there when selecting a Peg, no?
when you grab an unbuilt bargain on eBay for £600 you dont get picky about the colour 😉
(was dark blue with a white pinstripe, new paint is dark grey with orange panels so never OTT)
and as for custom if the frames are available in 1cm increments not S/M/L/XL then most people would not need a custom size, luckily a pegoretti 56cm is my size
Is there an age thing on steel bikes? I've just hit 37 and all off a sudden I'm finding myself wanting one. I've raced since my youth and always just wanted bikes that are machine's. So carbon and alu have always been my go to, and still ride a mix of the two. I've ridden steel bikes owned by friends but have always been left underwhelmed, and kind of dealt with steel fanboys in the same way I deal with coffee tossers; just smile, be polite and think of happy things.
But I have grown to the like the look of them, is there a huge amount of difference to them, as in off the peg or custom? I have no bike related abnormal body parts or dimensions, I would just need one racey.
* Must be noted, if mrsmiths peg was the blue one that used to get posted, I used to think that was lush, probably what has sparked the steel urge.
It seems to me that a lot of custom builders are making very nice looking frames using off the shelf tubing. It's interesting that we describe them as "custom" yet a manufacturer designing and specifying a custom tubeset in standard sizes would not be.
Not at all. By way of analogy, most Saville Row bespoke tailoring will use standard cloth chosen from a range offered by a limited number of suppliers, but that cloth will be of very high quality, and the custom element is in tailoring it to fit the customer perfectly. Marks and Spencer or Ted Baker or their suplliers may well order a cloth that is to their specific requirements of fabric composition and pattern/colour, but both the cloth and the final finished garment will be inferior to the Saville Row product.
If a standard tubeset does the job, then there is no need for the custom builder to seek anything else. The custom element is in selecting the tubeset (or mix of tubes) to suit the rider and use, and in the geometry.
For what it's worth, the Columbus stainless tubes used by Pegoretti are extruded specifically for him to his specification. Conversely, the shaped (Gilco) tubing used by Colnago for their steel frames was/is made specifically for Colnago, and was developed in response to a request from pro racers to increase their frames' stiffness.
when you grab an unbuilt bargain on eBay for £600...luckily a pegoretti 56cm is my size
Mr Smith, you sir are a jammy lucky b*****d. I wouldn't mind so much were it not for the fact that that's my size too.
luckily a pegoretti 56cm is my size
Ebay search activated. £600 is a steal! Which model?
My two steel frame road bikes are a Kona Paddy Wagon (used £200 bike, now highly customised) and my Shorter TT bike (used £400 bike, now a nice modern fusion of filet brazing, old Dura Ace and modern carbon).
I might consider swapping the Defy SL, but that's straying from the fold. I'd probably replace the Kona frame with something. Dario doesn't tend to do fixed.