You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Hey guys, I am going about building myself a new 27.5 bike for xc/trail/enduro from the frame up. I am after ordering a 2016 cube stereo 140 frame in a size 22 (im just over 6 foot but ive heard cube are sized small).
I am now looking at what i can do to make the bike slacker while retaining a steep seat angle. Stock the bikes head angle is 67.5" and its seat angle is 74.5" and it was sold as a full bike with both a 140mm fork and a 150mm fork.
What i am thinking of doing is putting a 2017 160mm rock shox lyrik which should slacken the head angle to around 66.5", it will also raise the BB height but as the bb drop on this bike is quite low at -15.5 that hopefully wont cause too much issues. I was also looking at these offset shock bushings to further slacken to if needed.
My problem is then how to correct the seat angle, I assume the longer fork will reduce it to something like 73.5", is there anything i can do to bring the seat angle back up?
Hoping to put this cane creek DBCoil inline onto it as well.
Any advice or ideas?
I see 3 options:
1. Push the seat forward
2. Fit a slackening headset and a consider the fork length. That way you can balance the reduction in stack height from the slacker head angle with the length of the forks to preserve the seat angle but get a slacker head angle.
3. Buy a bike with the geometry you want
Fitting a longer fork and slackening bushings will change the seat angle quite a bit.
I did look at angle headsets but because the frame has an integrated one I'd to rule it out. I'm thinking ilI put the 160 fork on but leave the bushings on the shock as normal (unless BB height is an issue) and try to get my saddle forward somehow to correct for seat angle.
Is there any dropper post with something like reverse setback (set forward?) Or even a saddle with longer rails.
Begs the question why you're looking at buying a frame that's clearly not what you want, fudging what you have is one thing. Buying deliberately the wrong thing is a bit, well, daft.
Inline seatpost will effectively steepen the Seat angle, also a saddle like a brooks which tends to sit a bit further forward.
Otherwise, noahhowes above has pretty much nailed it.
personally, id consider option 3, buy something which is designed for the length of fork you intend to use, thats just my opinion though. I have a cube E stereo 120, I recall seeing a thread somewhere where a guy had adapted his to run 160mm forks, possibly on one of the german forums.
its down to the fact that its fantastic value really, payed 600 for the full carbon frame + headset, plus its really light for the amount of travel it has. The bike was sold stock with 150 up front so i dont really see 160 as going too crazy. Guess i also see it as a bit of a challenge to fiddle with the geometry.
I would have loved to get an evil or santa cruz frame but the wallet wasnt having it 🙂
Being as i am entirely guilty of buying things because they're a bargain i realised a long time ago it's only a bargain if it's any good. I've still not learnt and continue to make the same mistake mind.
It is light, and it is reasonably cheap (allowing for needing to buy a shock, maybe not that cheap) but imho you'd be better off buying a cheap heavy frame which is what you want (on one etc) than a cheap light one you don't.
A friend had a full build of the same a year or two back, found it very pedal friendly or hugely wallowy with no sweet spot on the rear and twitchy and divey at the front even with a slack set and offset bushes. I remember him describing it as an xc bike with too big travel.
As was he put 100mm fork on it and removed the offsets & slack set and finds it great fun for blasting about trail centres, bridal ways and the like then bought a "big" bike for throwing down stuff.
YMMV of course.
The stock 140r/150f full bike got a decent review here, and the 2015/17 stereo 140 which seems to be the same bike has gotten good reviews too. I've no illusions of it being the best bike in the world and I might go 150mm up front with angle bushing instead of 160 but I'm hoping it will be decent enough for trail/enduro stuff.
Either way the frame was a good bargain so I won't lose much if it's crap, just sell it and get a new frame and swap the parts.
Great bike. Fantastic project!
Yes - go ahead with the 160 mm fork and use standard headset. This Stereo will be a blast!
With my bike projects: was always too much worried to put a "too big" fork into a frame. Wrong so. In your case: you bought a frame "one size larger". With a "longer travel fork" you end up with a good head angle and a great fun bike.
You will be surprised how well this bike will climb as well. The "frame size bigger" will help you here to have always pressure on the front tire. And downhill you will enjoy the 160 mm travel and the "new" head angle.
Finished two months ago a similar project. Bit too large frame in combination with a "too big" fork. This bike is sooo much fun! Your thinking is right!
nice to get a bit of enthusiasm towards it 🙂 thought i had rightly gone off in the wrong direction with this idea. Any details on your own project?
can the travel on a 2016/17 lyrik be reduced to 150 from 160?
details of my mentioned project?
Like to have always "one" building project going on. Right now: Bought a Cube Stereo HPA 150 27.5+ frame in winter sale and hope to have this bike completed in summer. This bike will get 2.6 tires.
End of last year I took an old 29" XC hardtail frame more or less from scrap. 100 mm fork which was bust. Frame around one inch too large for me. Stem around 80 mm or so. 19 mm rims. Winter sale was amazing so... the bike has now a 130 mm fork, 40 mm stem, 2x10 Deore in mountain goat set up (front 24+34, rear 11...42), Saint BB, 25 mm rims and DT 370 hubs (custom wheels from actionsports, rims are FunWorks), front tire is Hans Dampf 2.35, rear I still had some 2.25 Mountain King. I love this bike!
When I bike with my biking pals I take my Bossnut V2 or this 130 mm hardtail. Both bikes are totally different and both are an blast.
Bike sometimes with pals which have the Stereo HPA 140 (2015 or 2016?) and swapped bikes (20 inch frame. My size...). This HPA 140 is great! And - the HPA 140 frame quality is quite impressive.
When I saw a sale for the 27.5+ HPA 150 I had to order it. This bike I will build in 150/150 (also with good old, low cost 2x10 Deore 24+34, 11...42). Only detail I don't like: the BB pressfit.
But based on my 100 mm to 130 mm hardtail conversion I like to confirm your thinking about the geometry. You get a slacker head angle. To be still able to climb a frame which is a "bit too big" will help if you go that route. But important that the top tube is still low enough to be able to lower the saddle enough for the downhill run. But this is only an issue if your legs are relatively short - and depends on the design of the bike.
You got the carbon frame? Don't know this frame but pretty sure it's good.
Seems bonkers to buy any bike part due to it being cheap rather than what you want/need. It’s like buying any old full bike because the groupset is better than equivalently priced bikes rather than because it’s any good.
Hope it works out but seems like a battle already.
can the travel on a 2016/17 lyrik be reduced to 150 from 160?
I imagine so but then your head angle will be back to where you started ie a2c will be that of a 150 fork.
I don't fully agree with using a longer fork to slacken a head angle. 10mm more travel gives you a degree ish. But then if you're running 30% sag that goes down to 7mm extra length which means 0.7° less the shorter fork. By all means run a longer fork but you won't be slackening the head angle by much in use.
It's not like the bike is not something I'd want anyway, reviews say it's a good light mid travel carbon trail bike, I'd love a stock version of it but I've decided to build it from the frame up as I got the frame for 500euro and I can customize it fully for myself.
I've been looking at building a 140/150 bike for the last year, I'm just trying to maximize what I can do with it. I can't imagine a 160 fork compared to a 150 will destroy the bikes geometry, it's not like I'm trying to turn a 100-120mm xc bike into a full 170 enduro rig.
The bike stock is 140r/150f with a 67.5" head angle, I wouldn't mind just getting it to 140r/160f and the head angle into the 66.5" range while retaining pedaling performance. Surely that's not a crazy wish?
The only way you'll know what it's like is to ride it and see. Worrying about paper differences of 10 mm front travel or a degree of seat angle is pretty pointless. Once you put a bike together and set the suspension sag, put bigger or smaller tyres on, fine tune the stem length and slide the saddle back or forward, the actual geometry will be different from the specs on paper. In the end, you're interested in what it's like to ride, and you will only know that if you try riding it.
yup true enough, cant wait to get the frame 🙂
Haha. Below is interesting:
https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/Pro-Bike-Check-Greg-Callaghans-Cube-Stereo-140-29,1513
Tried to find something about the Carbon Stereos. Greg Callaghans bikes 27.5 and 29 inch Cube Stereo Carbon bikes.
Greg's 29 inch bike: Stereo Carbon 140 - but he put a 160 mm fork in!
Maybe you are able to find something about Greg's 27.5 Carbon Cube. The frame you ordered might be this 27.5 frame then...?
Your 22 inch frame size: you are a bit over 6 ft you say. Like others said above: fine tuning of the stem, bar and and and will make the bike fit (if your legs are long enough for the top tube).
Right now great sale of Fox shocks:
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/search?q=fox+dps
You need 200x57 or 184x44? They sell them right now for half the price. 2017 version.
Fork 160 mm: great idea. Only question where to get a good low cost 160 mm fork...
Yeah had seen Greg's bikes alright, might have pushed me into looking into what I'm doing somebit 🙂
I was looking at this new 2016/17 lyrik for 450 delivered (hopefully get past customs)
Any recommendations for a cheap shock that would be good? I was looking at putting a cane creek DBCoil inline with a ti spring but that will be 500 ish, if I could get something 200-300 at the moment be great
Frame takes a 200x57 shock
How about below? 200 ish. Very good shock.
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/fox-racing-float-dps-performance-evol-200x57mm-695348
The Lyric you picked is good.
Option as well:
Friends of mine run the Durolux (180 mm I think). Very good downhill fork.
The Auron - from model year 2018 "SF18" - has the same damping technology as the Durolux. Above link: guess this is a older - SF16 or similar Auron. That's the reason they sell them cheap? TA, travel adjust will allow you to adjust the travel of the fork. Guess from 140 mm to 160 mm? They don't state it there. I'am not such a friend of travel adjust forks - normally they don't feel as good as the ones without TA.
The Lyric will be a bit better than the Auron. And the new Aurons from SF 18 on will be too expensive.
But maybe google for the Auron as well if you like. What's definitely a fantastic fork is the Durolux. But this only if your focus is more downhill/enduro. The Lyric or Auron fits better on a trail bike, the Durolux on a downhill hardtail or similar.
That's the one I ordered for my 150/150 27.5 Plus bike project (Fox Float Rhythm):
150 mm travel so. You like/need 160...
The version for 29 inch bike and 130 mm travel I have in use. Fantastic fork.
The 150 mm fork is waiting for getting into the frame...- can't say anything yet about this 150 mm fork.
What's your opinion on fox Vs rock shock for the rear shock? There's monarchs around the 200 mark on bike-discount
this bb from wheels mfc would be a nice way to alleviate some of the press fit bb issues i hope.
Monarch or Fox Float DPS:
Have a monarch on one of my bikes. The one I have has only a damping adjust but no lock-out. But quite happy with it. Would like a bit more progression - that's all. The Fox float dps is in my opinion one quality and technology notch better. And the Float DPS has a lock-out and a damping adjust. The float dps is able to increase traction and stability of your bike even a bit more than a monarch shock. At least that's the impression when I have the chance to swap bikes and have the float dps mounted to this bike. Service on the Fox Float DPS shock is not such a nightmare as on the high end Fox Forks (the high end 1 k fox forks are beautiful engineering wonders. But absolutely nuts to service them. The guys with the Durolux downhill forks have their forks serviced in 1 hour- same as with simple RockShock air forks. The guys with the high end fox forks need the big bucks to get them serviced from some special shops...Nothing for me! That's also one reason I like the low cost Fox Float Rhythm forks. Much more simple than the high end Fox forks...). If the Monarch and the Float DPS is available for the same money: I would go for the Fox shock. The Monarch has quite some leakage issues (which I don't have) - the fox shock appears to have less issues with such trouble. But - as mentioned - the Monarch shock on my bike is good. Won't change it.
BB: yes. This is a option I'am thinking about as well. BB's are a big issue with my biking. Standard Shimano Hollowtech II will last a couple months with my mud biking. I use Saint BB's with very good result. They last minimum 1 1/2 years. But they are not available for press fit...
Your bike, Carbon: guess there are only pressfit BB's around any more.
Wheels mfc or HOPE has interesting solutions for the BB. Will check this.
Other issue: no idea if your Stereo 140 ist the first bike you put together. If so: never hurry when you have the feeling that something is not going smooth. In such a case stop working on it, ask for advice and/or borrow special tools and go on then. Very easy to mess things up. When cutting the fork tube leave plenty extra length. Buy a 8 buck 1 1/8 spacer kit. I put these spacers on top of the stem. No danger then to cut too much off... If you know somebody who has a small press maybe you can ask him to work on it when you put your headset in. The "threaded rod" headset thing works most of the time - a press always...(straight).
Birzman has some nice tools. Example for hammering the claw-nut into the fork tube. Costs 12 bucks or so. Think my 1 1/8 tube cutter is Birzman as well. Great stuff.
Have fun!
Would this be a decent shock to get? Similar to the standard float DPS?
payed 600 for the full carbon frame + headset, plus its really light for the amount of travel it has
Frame material is the last thing, outside of staying away from bamboo bikes and hippies, that you should care about.
Go and pick up an Airdrop frame and I'll sell you my slightly worn looking but looked after and mechanically sound Pikes with the FAST damper for **** all.
I care about frame stiffness and weight so carbon is something I've been looking at for a bit. The cube seems like a nice frame to me don't really get all the hate it's getting. Won't take much to get the head angle to 66.5-67.
Those airdrop frames look lovely for the money.
10mm more travel gives you a degree ish
An inch gives about a degree HA change. 10mm will give you less than half a degree.
I care about frame stiffness and weight so carbon is something I’ve been looking at for a bit.
Frame stiffness is decided as much by the lay up of the carbon as it is the material itself and the swing arm/suspension pivot design. I'd bet that the Airdrop is every bit as stiff as that Cube.
Airdrop: nice mountain bikes of course
Nice field to compare the bikes: professional EWS Enduro races. I assume as long as Greg Callaghan is getting on a Cube Stereo Carbon onto the podium it's pretty clear that the Carbon Stereo is a very, very good bike.
Maybe a professional bike racer will use an Airdrop mountain bike for EWS Enduro World Series racing in the near future? Would be nice to compare the results then. Maybe Airdop bikes are better. Maybe not.
As a full suspension bike I bike a Calibre Bossnut V2 right now. Fantastic bike. As first Cube full suspension bike I will have soon a Stereo HPA (aluminium) 150 27.5+ bike (bought the frame recently in winter sale). Can't say anything about the Carbon Stereo - but assume it's superb. Tested the Aluminium Stereo 140 - and this bike is really fun! And very fast! I Love my Bossnut V2 - but the Stereo 140 is in many regards simply better. Decided to give the Stereo 150/150 Plus bike a try.
More important than speed: fun. That's mountain biking about. And this fun thing depends on the biker, the skill and the trail.
Only way to find out: to try the bikes. And for the PO: he will put the Carbon Stereo together with the 160 mm fork and ho will test it. And most probably he will love it.
Why should he buy an Airdrop bike right now?
Nonsense! (and very convinced that the Stereo Carbon frame stiffness will beat the Airdrop frame stiffness - but who really cares? Is this important? No.)
well ive the frame on the way, and im just after buying a manitou mattoc pro 2 fork and carbon bar 🙂 the mattoc 2 seems to review really well in comparison to pikes/34's, better damper but not quite as stiff, 140,150,160mm adjustment, lots of tweeking options as well. Might get the IRT add on to adjust progressiveness on the fly.
I am now thinking of buying the manitou McLeod rear shock as well, seems to be reviewed fantastic as well as been great value.
Fantastic!
The manitou fork is an excellent deal. 160 mm high end fork for this price is great.
Bike building projects are always a bit like "research and testing" - makes a lot of sense to try something different/new. That's part of the fun.
Good plan!
yeah i particularly like that i can simply change the travel between 160, 150, 140 with the supplied spacers. should make for some interesting tweeking
what would be a good colour scheme to go? was think green/purple, dont mind buying new decal sets etc.
haha.
No idea. My bikes are always a very wild mix...
im curious about something, what would happen if i put a 205x62.5 shock into the frame (designed for 200x57)
Uuups - this you definitely have to check with the bike manufacturer.
"Shorter" - lets say 195 mm instead of 200 isn't critical.
205 mm instead of 200 sounds only like "littel longer" than specified - but this difference might force the rear suspension already into a very critical position where unexpected high forces will be generated. Possible that the suspension is designed for that. But possible that you damage the suspension and then fun is over.
Without o.k. from bike manufacturer: better don't try that!!!
Carbon stuff is new for me as well. My bikes are aluminium...
But: the visible outside of carbon products is polished like hell. Several coatings which always get polished and polished and polished...
Not visible surfaces: they look rough.
BB: I.D. machined to tolerance. Not polished.
So - not being a carbon biker - I would say: that's the way it looks.
But maybe somebody in the forum has a better knowledge of this.
Finally getting to put this together 🙂 One problem ive run into though is the seat clamp area on the frame. I bought the correct diameter hope seat clamp but the height seems way off when i install it. I measured the clamp area height on the frame and its 20mm whereas the hope clamp itself is only around 16mm in height. Am i supposed to cut the carbon clamp area on the frame to size? or am i supposed to get a taller seat clamp
Am i supposed to cut the carbon clamp area on the frame to size?
Yes, yes you are. You will find an angle grinder does the best job.
Dammit. I may have been a bit naughty there...
Hope seat clamps are pretty narrow I think, try a salsa one instead. Or just fit the Hope, it's probably be fine.
Don't cut the carbon seat clamp area!
the angle grinder slipped, my frame is in bits............. 😀
Been following this with interest. Got my own frame that I'm going to be building up, though the extent of my bodging will be adding a Wolf Tooth boostinator and re-dishing the rear wheel.
All the best with the build and make sure you post pics when you're done (assuming the angle grinder doesn't slip again..!)
will certainly put some pictures up 🙂 I am thinking of putting something like this underneath the seat clamp, think it will stretch to 34.9mm?
Bike is finally finished 🙂 delighted with how it rides as well, pedals uphill much better than i thought it would with the 160mm fork and the offset bushings bringing the head angle down to somewhere between 65.5 - 66. Well impressed with the manitou mattoc pro 2, super plush,light with loads of adjustments. Still trying to figure out best shock setup but its running well so far.
Trying to set it up for riding without a backpack as well so ive put the syncros matchbox waterbottle cage on. Really slick piece of kit.
