[Closed] Cumbria/ Lakes Summits you can legally ride

Blencathra and helvellyn

I think Damascus means Skiddaw, ain't no BW to the top of Blencathra.

There's a BW along almost the whole of the Helvellyn range from Great Dodd to Dollywaggon Pike

Great Sca Fell (to the north of Blencathra and Skiddaw) has a BW to the summit area.

High Crag, High Stile and Red Pike above Buttermere.

Harter Fell

Thornthwaite Beacon, High Street, High Raise, Loadpot Hill.

I think that's it - most of the Lakes BWs are old pack horse routes so went over the passes rather than the tops.

High street and Helvellyn make an excellent day out if it's dry or frozen.

I've been meaning to try the linkup to Skiddaw for ages but never got round to it

Anyone fancy a STW grand day out?

Would be nice not to have to ride back from Keswick to High street afterwards.

Pick your time of day, don't be a dick, and you can ride a load more.

Harter Fell

That's FP but it's actually a nice ride and it's remote enough that you don't run into issues. Gatescarth Pass, over Harter Fell and then you're at Nan Bield Pass.

Well "legally" just look for bridleways on the OS maps, if you're happy with cheeky then anything you're prepared to push or carry up.

That’s FP but it’s actually a nice ride and it’s remote enough

I think he meant the 'other' Harter Fell. Which is not that nice a ride!

@crazy-legs - different Harter Fell, look at the one between Eskdale and Dunnerdale - http://streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=321857&Y=499677&A=Y&Z=120 . Have ridden the Kentmere one.

Howgills bw gets you near enough the top of a couple

One past devoke water, nearly at the top

Black Coombe

Cross fell ish

Skiddaw but you'd have to be mad to ride the legal way back down when you could do Ullock Pike

I think Damascus means Skiddaw, ain’t no BW to the top of Blencathra.

Yes and no. I've never cycled up blencathra, always walked up it but it's accessable and I've seen lots of bikers on it. I even watched an ebike cycle up past me on the steep section and out of sight. I'd assumed it was bw but now I think it's cheeky fp.

There's also walna scar. Again I've seen people cycle up it on ebike while I was pushing my bike with bags strapped to it thinking those ebikes look like fun! 🤔

Pick your time of day year..

Walna scar ain't a summit though.

Thanks for the ideas so far, whitestone and thestabiliser, that's a useful start. There are many great 'cheeky' rides but in this instance I'm specifically looking to make a route that is legal to ride:) Hopefully someday there will be an update to our historic land access laws!

@damascus - the OP asked for legally accessible summits, it's in the thread title as well. I've ridden to the summit of Lonscale Fell and others in the Northern Fells, they ain't legal but they are rideable but that's not was being asked for.

Skiddaw but you’d have to be mad to ride the legal way back down when you could do Ullock Pike

I've walked up that way and thought "THIS is a bridleway"?

Here you go - the Lakeland Lugger
Forget Iron Crag above Ennerdale though - doesn't reach the summit and shitty riding

Just track down one of the old Ernest Press Jeremy Ashcroft MTB guidebooks full of mad routes, gaffer tape a load of karrimat round your frame tubes and fill your boots.

Slightly off topic and to open a can of worms...I've noticed a distinct trend in recent years on certain social media mtb'ing sites that posters wilfully 'promote' themselves with shots of riding wherever they like, with seemingly no concern of what is legal or not - it's so flagrant I even wonder if people realise they shouldn't be riding there. Do the majority of riders even bother to adhere to the rules these days? It does grate with me as 30 years ago we rode very sensitively in the Lakes and mostly stuck to what was appropriate, almost in fear of inevitable abuse from the red-socked rambling brigade. This changed over time to cheeky being acceptable after 7:00 on a Tuesday, to now where the attitude of a new generation of riders seems to be that everything is fair game. It's not the sort of thing I do much these days but curious what the current thinking is.

Endoverend.

We spent about 10 years or so as active mountain bikers in Scotland in the old days. We made reasonable efforts to search out the good bridleways and legal trails, but in reality it was pretty shit. There were a few exceptions like Ben Lomond but generally it was out and back estate roads into the middle of nowhere and then back.( The lack of internet didn't help either). But we stuck to the rules, even though they were daft.

Then one day (after we'd moved away) someone in authority realised the rules were shit and changed them. Suddenly all this amazing biking was legal. Nothing had changed, except the law. Complete 180 degree change.

I really regret those wasted years, and I don't intend to make the same mistake on England.

I'll be dead in 30 years and I'm not going to hold off in the offchance that it takes the government 25 of then to change the law.

Rule 1 is the only rule that counts.

Whitestone, nailed superbly.

Do the majority of riders even bother to adhere to the rules these days?

OpenMTB did a survey with Cycling UK a few years ago and the answer was a resounding "no, because the rules don't work".

The OP here should be allowed to stick to "legal" trails if he/she wishes, but I think the debate on whether riders in general should "stick to the rules" no longer serves any purpose. They're not going to and the rules will change eventually. It's just a question of when.

/soapbox

Do the majority of riders even bother to adhere to the rules these days?

Nope, the current rules are stupid.  Apply rule 1

Apply rule 1

Am not familiar with the modern parlance, what is Rule 1? Do you mean 'Do no Harm, Leave no Trace' is the order of the day?

Where does the assumption come from that the rules will eventually change in Mtb'ers favour, is there talk of eventually adopting something like the Scottish Land Reform Act in Englandshire driven perhaps by generational changes in attitudes towards usage? I don't follow such things but it's not something I've ever got a whiff of.

Rule 1: DBAD: Don't be a dick.

Where does the assumption come from that the rules will eventually change in Mtb’ers favour, is there talk of eventually adopting something like the Scottish Land Reform Act in Englandshire driven perhaps by generational changes in attitudes towards usage? I don’t follow such things but it’s not something I’ve ever got a whiff of.

Scotland has changed and it works fine, Wales has decided to change.

There is an increased recognition within Government of the wellbeing benefits of exercise - and of cycling in particular. There are more people now taking to the RoW network blissfully ignorant or utterly confused about their rights.

It seems inevitable that access rights will be reviewed as the benefits clearly outweigh the disadvantages and hopefully it'll be years rather than decades.

see also the change in river access for kayakers in the last 20 years.

So when you get grumbled at by walkers when you are on a bridleway doesn't exactly make you want to stick to the "rules" does it.

Where does the assumption come from that the rules will eventually change in Mtb’ers favour

Mostly I don't give a toss whether the rules change or not. If they do, it won't make a huge difference to where I ride anyway,  but I'm certainly not expecting them to change in my life time as there are too many with an interest in keeping hoi palloi off their little patch of England. I also realised that most of the folk who actually challenge cyclists aren't the landowners anyway, so the conversation tends to stop pretty quickly at the point where we "agree" that it's none of their business. Even if challenged by the Landlord the worst that can happen is I'm asked to leave...Mleh

Most folk don't know the rules, or couldn't care less either way, but really all you need to do is not be a dick. People can share paths, folk all over the world manage it all the time, just don't ride past people on a popular FP at head height or at a million miles an hour on a weekend, if you want to do that; choose a different day, or an out of the way FP. Be polite, don't be disrespectful, and have a chat....you know; rule 1

@nickc - pretty much that.

The only time in the last few years I've had any comment was from a walker. Somewhat ironic that I was riding on a stone set track used by the estate tractors so minimal damage. Also the estate owner does a bit of biking himself and has installed a short circuit in the woods behind the main house that is open to anyone. The only "official" comment I've heard is to keep away if they are shooting up there which TBH is maybe a couple of days a year.

^^^
Completely agree and that's what I do. But I've mates who aren't comfortable riding where it's 'against the rules', and where there's not many folks doing that sort of riding. By which I mean the Dales. We need a few more folks out riding to make it a bit more normal, as in the Lakes.

(Avoiding going anywhere near 3 Peaks cyclocross route to avoid potentially winding up easily wound up landowners and imperiling this classic event.)

Aye, only bother I've ever had are idiots on gluepot bridleways around the likes of Ambleside and Grasmere, get out on to the less busy summits where the proper walkers are, and most of them want to engage you about the lunacy of dragging a bike around!.

A disarmingly cheery greeting is your secret weapon.

summits where the proper walkers are, and most of them want to engage you about the lunacy of dragging a bike around!.

This. Off the well-worn trails I've only ever had this type of conversation. Even up on Helvellyn last week with lots of 'casual' walkers the chat was always 'how did you get that up here?'. Wierdly though, all the traffic was up on the ridge itself. Going up Keppel Cove and then down via Sticks Pass and Seldom Seen I only passed or even saw one group of other users.

There wasn't a law before the scottish access bill, there was an assumption; so it was relatively easy to get the bill through. Both sides wanted certainty. England and Wales has access law second in complication only to tax law. The welsh assembly made noises a while ago about adopting the scottish Bill but they have neither the legal understanding or resources to do it. Latterly they've talked of allowing cyclists on footpaths but that's not simple, they'd be opening themselves up to legal challenges on such ways as cliff paths on the grounds of safety, and anyway they have an appalling record on delivering absolutely any thing. Their own auditors stated that. So you'll all have to depend on Boris. Good luck with that.

So you’ll all have to depend on Boris. Good luck with that.

Aye, and making Trespass a criminal offence (again) was part of their manifesto. Even the ramblers think it's a shit idea

Wierdly though, all the traffic was up on the ridge itself.

Instabangers, everyone wants a ridge pic.

There is an interesting new book by Nick Hayes called The Book of Trespass where he claims 92% of the country is closed off to everybody. He also states 30% is still owned by the aristocracy. He is talking generally but surely it is time for a thorough overhaul of England's RoW law.
Won't happen though, too much privilege to protect.

The Book of Trespass by Nick Hayes review – a trespasser's radical manifesto
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/aug/10/the-book-of-trespass-by-nick-hayes-review-a-trespassers-radical-manifesto?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

"legally" is it illegal to ride a bike on access land and public footpaths?

I dunno.

IMHO it is our access laws that are wrong, not us, they are completely outdated and should be reviewed. We are told to cycle for a mental and physical health but there are hardly any bridleways and cycling on the road is terrifying.

We should all be cycling wherever there is any kind of public access. Cycling UK say: https://www.cyclinguk.org/campaigning/views-and-briefings/public-footpaths-england-wales

Let's not forget the Kinder Mass Trespass. Surely now is the time for change? More people cycling then ever, e-bikes are enabling more new cyclists. Obesity can increase the risk of serious covid symptoms.

Just don't be a dick.

Instabangers, everyone wants a ridge pic.

They'll have been mightily disappointed that day then...

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everyone wants a ridge pic.

For some reason made me think of this heartwarming thread from a decade ago - accidentally biking anoarch aegarch:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/biking/biking_aonach_eagach-429405

Aye, and making Trespass a criminal offence (again) was part of their manifesto. Even the ramblers think it’s a shit idea

"Even" the ramblers? Why wouldn't they think it's a shit idea?

When it comes to changing access law a great deal is going to be made of the behaviour of MTBers and, let's be honest, there are quite a few who don't apply rule 1. Enough to have an impact on those of us who do.

When it comes to changing access law a great deal is going to be made of the behaviour of MTBers and, let’s be honest, there are quite a few who don’t apply rule 1. Enough to have an impact on those of us who do.

As I noted in the thread asking for wild camping spots near Barmouth, The Times had a piece about litter louts in the Cairngorms - they used a picture of a mountain biker (on a trail and doing nothing wrong) to headline the piece.

All very easy to create a drip by drip narrative.

“Even” the ramblers? Why wouldn’t they think it’s a shit idea?

I will be first to admit that the Ramblers these days are nothing like the organisation they were. But it wasn't that long ago that they acted like a bunch a reactionary, red trouser wearing nimbys. A few years ago the Ramblers (as an organisation) would've welcomed legislation that restricted other's rights to greater access.

When it comes to changing access law a great deal is going to be made of the behaviour of MTBers and, let’s be honest, there are quite a few who don’t apply rule 1. Enough to have an impact on those of us who do.

With respect, this is bollox. Like many other sports that rely on access rights (climbing and kayaking spring to mind) I don't think there hasn't been a time when some doom-monger is telling everyone that their limited access rights are just about to be taken away because of the behaviour of the few...In the 30 years I've been mountain biking this has never happened. The ONLY people telling me I can't ride somewhere are people who have literally no right to tell me I can't ride there. I've decided to ignore them.

I'm not talking about taking rights away, I'm talking about relaxation of current restrictions. The "anti" lobby will use whatever argument it can find to oppose it, much as the anti-cycling infrastructure lobby makes a big deal out of all cyclists being lycra clad maniacs jumping red lights.

Of course the Ramblers know it to be a poor idea. What is applied to us can then be applied to them. As for cycling UK I have no reason to believe they are any less useless than they were when they were CTC. I went to numerous meetings over a ten year period resulting in not one outcome. They asked me to be their offroad Gov rep then spent three months failing to sort out my expenses. I said I couldn't see the point of fronting an organisation that was so utterly gormless.
"Current restrictions" is a euphemism for laws. You need Parliament to change them and they are likely to have other things on their mind for at least the next 7 years.