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Road bike has a few alloy nipples that are cracked or crumbling. Tried to remove one with a spoke key and predictably it disintegrated on the outside.
The inside bit is still holding so how do I remove- is there a nipple driver? Or do I just cut the spoke and replace both.
I have new nipples ready, do I use lube or thread lock or something?
Thanks
Edit- it looks like the ends are square type not slot.
From inside. Depends on the type but it may just be a slot for a small flat head screwdriver
Might just cut and start again.
Get the proper driver I guess.
May be worth checking all the nipples, after some WD40. But in time they will all go so you may as well replace them all for a long term solution.
I'm still learning wheel building and only every used a bit of 3 in 1 oil. Seems to work! Not sure why thread lock is needed if the wheel is tensioned properly (not meaning to sound dissmissive) but see it recommended often.
Can't remember what I did when I had to remove crumbly nipples (two wheels worth).... Whatever worked I think. Bought a selective of spoke keys and a park tools driver to see what I got on with best.
I replaced the straight pull hubs and rebuilt with j-spokes hubs and brass nipples.
Not sure why thread lock is needed if the wheel is tensioned properly (not meaning to sound dissmissive) but see it recommended often.
You're assuming that the spoke is under tension at all times, when in fact, especially for mtb wheels that take hits, they often have tension released by the flex in the rim. Repeated landings of the spoke nipple on the rim bed at slightly different angles can wind out spoke nipples. Especially if you like to run a softer wheel. A bit of resistance to turning on the thread helps to stop this.
I can see on the road it would be less of a thing, but suspect its still a factor.
Thanks that makes sense.
I have stopped bunny hopping those wide road crossing humps after finding the broken nipples.
So there's a couple of things you can do. Yes remove tyre and try from the other side.
Clean them up and get some proper quality penetrating oil on from both sides, let it soak. This is actually quite fiddly to do so it's smart to repeat it a few times just to up your odds. More the merrier. (remember some really good penetrating fluids can damage paint finishes or carbon- do not reach for the acetone/psf mix without care)
If the spoke doesn't poke out through the nipple on the outside, then you can just use the best fitting flat headed screwdriver you can find (I have one that I've ground down a little to make it "nipple shaped" for best fit but that's not really necessariy I think and besides not all nipples are the same. But if you've ever bought a set of screwdriver bits you probably have loads of #2 flatheads that you don't need) If it does poke through then you either need a driver or you need to modify a screwdriver ie cut a little slot in the middle. Again I have a modified screwdriver for this and I do think it's better than any nipple driver I have for this one job, it's a stronger fit- drivers just aren't made with this purpose in mind.
Heat is kind of difficult and can discolour or damage paint, a high power soldering iron can help but honestly it adds faff and takes away the amount of care you can apply as it makes it all time critical, I'm not a big fan. Heat busts threadlock loose but your problem probably isn't threadlock.
You can in theory attach a tool to both sides but I've found that a bit too much of a faff generally, I'd rather use one tool really well. Maximum weight/pressure on the tool to prevent it camming out, it'll damage the nipple if it does, your first shot is your best shot. If you've already cracked the nipple beyond usability on the inside, do consider breaking it even more- you can squash alu nipples with vice grips sometimes and break away more of the metal, which gives your penetrating oil better access, and you don't lose anything (the spoke is harder than the nipple so crushing it breaks the nipple around the spoke and leaves teh spoke unharmed).
If you have a few stuck ones but most are OK you might want to consider loosening the other ones to detension the wheel, that'll make it easier to undo the stuck ones. You might even be able to get the spoke entirely through the rim bed eventually, so that you can attack it more brutally, but that doens't happen til late and you need a little luck in where the stuck spokes are. This can end up a really long road for a shortcut, it's mostly for expensive/hard to find spokes and for "oh cock, I have carelessly broken a nipple just by not realising there was a problem but I have a good chance if I attack it carefully".
Northwind thanks for the considered reply. I just cut them and replaced. Bit of a faff the first time but managed to get a system going without the right tools.
Put the spoke in then used another spoke with nipple on upside down, used this to wind the nipple onto the spoke in situ. They are quite deep road wheels, when the nipple showed itself I held it, wound off the tool spoke and tightened nipple with a spoke key.
The spokes are ones my mate had knocking around and are a bit too long, but they seem okay. Only prob is they are thicker so just twanging them
And listening to the sound compared to the original won’t work. Wheel appears straight.
Used small pieces of stans tape then electrical tape over the holes. Proper bodge job, I feel dirty.