[Closed] CRC Woes - Appalling Service (but probably not unexpected)

Unreasonable
The German wheel is nothing to do with them and a fifteen pound voucher is a good offer imo

That seems to be the way bike shops work. Lie through their teeth about having stock when they don’t. Then hope they can order from distributors and get it to you before you notice.

The problem is that with Coronavirus the whole supply chain is screwed and delivery at each stage is taking longer.

I broke a mech and just waited 2 weeks for mech that was showing as in stock on the website (Tweeks in my case).

That sounds annoying, but I wouldn't say it's appalling service. You're not actually out of pocket are you? Unfortunately this is the risk you run when ordering online, especially at a time like this when they probably have reduced staff in the warehouse and for processing orders.

Both points taken. How can they lie so much though when directly asked to confirm stock levels and take my money! I wouldnt have placed the German order if I had know that CRC encourage their staff to lie

If they can not confirm stock, then surly the answer is "we can not confirm stock" rather than "yes the item is in stock"

Given that they’d explicitly confirmed stock both before and after you placed your order, and specifically in relation to your order, I’d be a bit pissed off too, even though they’re doubtless within their contractual rights.

The offer of a £5 voucher seems a bit like going to a restaurant with your kids who manage to break two plates and cover a chair in lasagne and then leaving a 50p tip.

Ultimately, though, this is one of the risks you take when you’re trying to buy as cheaply as you possibly can (and one which we all help to create for everyone else when we do the same and all we’re left with is imports or low-margin warehouses).

Yes, URBU.

It's a mistake / stock discrepancy at a time of unprecedented demand, probably caused by loads of people jumping on a great deal in a short time frame, of which you were obviously one too. It's not appalling service.

It's also not their fault you ordered a complimentary part from somewhere else, especially when you could have ordered the set from them in the first place.

Take the £5 and be very grateful.

Why not order the back wheel from the Germans?

Why not order the back wheel from the Germans?

The Germans dont have the back wheels.

I get the stock thing on the internet not being up to date on the internet, but I contacted them direct and asked them to confirm stock, which they did. If they couldn't confirm stock then they shouldn't have done - plain simple

FunkyDunc

I get the stock thing on the internet not being up to date on the internet, but I contacted them direct and asked them to confirm stock, which they did. If they couldn’t confirm stock then they shouldn’t have done – plain simple

The person who confirmed stock would have been using the same stock system. It's not like she can just stroll out of the call centre and check the shelves.

It's unfortunate, but shit happens.

I get the stock thing on the internet not being up to date on the internet,

To be honest, I expect that the stock that shows on the internet store is the same base data as the stock level that the guys on live chat see.

The problem is if there is a discrepancy in the actual stock record.

So even if the guy on live chat had gone down to the warehouse to look to see if there was a Zipp wheel on the shelf, and saw that there was (confirming stock?), if there more orders than stock in the pipeline, your order could (and did) get cancelled.

It just happens. Stuff gets damaged too, so whilst there may have been an item on the shelf, when they came to dispatch it, they found it was damaged and couldn't send it. Or it got damaged whilst they were picking it. Or it got nicked. Or the guy putting the stock on the shelf entered 55 units instead of 5 and so on, ad infinitum.

'Confirming stock' is a pretty vague concept I'm afraid.

3 were in stock at the point I ordered, which then went down to 2.

Well maybe it does have to be a lesson learned for me, as in dont trust a retailer that pretends to be state of the art/customer focused organisation, and certainly dont expect them to be honest with you.

Below is one of their other replies before I placed the order when I was querying why it was cheap, and could they confirm stock.

I took a look into the two Zipp 303 Rear wheel offerings and can confirm that these would appear to be the same wheel. In different colour options. Often we would reduce the price of less popular items or variants to keep stock moving.

They did say they will send me the exact same wheel with black decals, not white, and would give me £5 towards the increased £215 cost.

If people can not confirm stock, then they should state that.

This one?

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/zipp-303-firecrest-clincher-disc-rear-wheel-2019/rp-prod164941?gs=1&sku=sku609780&istCompanyId=8d42cf00-fc35-44ce-8770-97ae3ffd4c16&istFeedId=c759ee22-6d7f-4501-bd00-f1af47c60490&istItemId=iwxttlriw&istBid=t&pgrid=60711842858&ptaid=pla-422942298399&utm_source=google&utm_term=&utm_campaign=PLA+All+Products&utm_medium=base&utm_content=mkwid%7CsI541evho_dm%7Cpcrid%7C309840163148%7Cpkw%7C%7Cpmt%7C%7Cprd%7C609780UK&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-_GShvuj6QIVibHtCh0P0wAgEAUYAiABEgI5N_D_BwE

Apparently there’s one in stock 🤪

Local bike shops are available. Just saying like

Local bike shops are available. Just saying like

Well who stocks Zipp then? I looked at Zipps website for stockist

From experience working with a distributor I would say everything that Andrewreay says is pretty much bang on.

It's rare the computer system matches the actual shelf which sounds ridiculous unless you've seen how this stuff goes.

Anything could've affected stock and whilst you were told it has been reserved for you it may have turned out that they thought they had 2 of what you wanted but the boxes were stickered up wrong and someone had ordered one before you with the same promise.

It's rubbish but it happens and to be honest, there's worse things happening out there right now so, in the words of someone wiser than me "Put on your big boy pants and suck it up."

If it helps, retailers I have worked with have a threshold of 5 units. So when stock drops below that, it shows as 'zero' to the customer.

The difficulty is high price, low volume items, like Zipp wheels. They probably only deliver in batches of 5, so they'd always be showing zero stock.

But at least they wouldn't be accused of appalling service.

Even the best systems in the world can't cope with human error and damage / loss.

Also, system rules that don't make much difference in times of low demand start to become more critical when there is a spike. For example, if you place the order, followed by another customer placing the same order 30 seconds later, you'd hope your order takes precedence.

But delays in credit card auth can swap that around, so if the other customer's bank is quicker at approving the transaction, the later order can be released first.

So that stock of three already decreases by one, and any other issues, like damage, loss or breakage start to impact.

Definitely something to consider when buying online.

Kip - lesson learned for me. Don’t trust retailers and their employees, and don’t try and save yourself £300

Really you are being unreasonable accusing them of telling a lie.  They made a mistake no doubt but they didn't set out to deliberately deceive.  You CAN try and save yourself 300gbp but just don't expect it to happen instantly.

Reckon you're a bit harsh on the employee there given the circumstances an what he'll realistically be able to do. For a big firm like CRC, the bloke you talk to can only go by the system. Unlike an LBS, he can't physically go out the back and check that yes, there are enough there. When confirming, he'll have done a check against system stock and open order, maybe by date raised to establish priority.

I reckon all 3 of your options are unreasonable - but that their offer of what, 0.5% discount, is a bit of a piss take. Sure there'll be more margin on that wheelset. I would be firm and polite (and don't blame the people, process is the issue here) and see if they'll go a bit further. If they've actually taken money from your account, I'd say you were in a stronger position.

First world problems! I’d guess the employee is working from home with no access to physical stock and there will be a slight delay in stock updating vs what’s showing on site so potentially a couple of people have ordered at the same time.

It’s a wheel and an error in stock levels, not the end of the world!

It's now 19 days since I contacted CRC about a warranty claim. I still haven't heard from them.

Well who stocks Zipp then? I looked at Zipps website for stockist

Be a pretty poor bike shop if they couldn’t get hold of SRAM brands...

Imho you are being unreasonable. Yes you can be disappointed. I also think you are wrong to accuse the customer service person of lying. A lie would imply they new they were giving incorrect info. I don't see this as the case, they gave the info they had  which was an error. Shit happens and you chose to order a wheel from Germany so I don't see why that is anything to do with CRC. Move on.

I live in NI.

On two occasions I have telephoned their physical store to check an item is in stock before embarking on the 100 mile round trip to get it. Told the guy on the phone I was travelling to collect it. On both occasions I was told it was definitely in stock only to arrive at the store and be told it wasn't. CRC are now definitely a last resort for me.

If you know your stock control is messing customers around, you maybe need to take a look at it. (see multiple Tredz threads).

Easiest and most foolproof method of saving 300 quid wheels.

Buy wheels that are 300 quid cheaper RRP.

Then there will be substantially less chance for disappointment.

Annoying yes. Crcs fault you bought a wheel from Germany no. And it will still function well as a wheel without the other one.

I had something similar happen twice to me and I now have a forever £5 off £50 voucher on my account, which is nice.

It's annoying when these things happen, but you win some, you lose some.

I am not accusing the individual of lying but the company of lying. If they can not confirm stock then they shouldn’t say that it is in stock, it’s a very simple principle.

So when you email them to confirm stock you are expecting them to go out to the shelf*and physically look at something

Or should they trust the stock management system and accept that a small % of orders at the end of stock lines might slip through the net ?

*Probably not even on site.

So you'd prefer a world where no online retailer would tell you if stock existed or not, lest there be a discrepancy on their system somewhere? I don't think CRC have lied to you - because that implies they would have known there was a discrepancy before giving you the information. They've made a mistake, as far as I can see. If the bloke had said to you. I have it here, in my hand, and I'm posting it now - then that would be a lie.

Hilarious that you think they should give you actual cash to return a wheel to Germany or pay you the difference.

Imagine I wanted to make my daughter a sparkly unicorn cake for her 5th birthday. I call Morrisons and they tell me they have sparkly unicorn cake decorations BUT I stop at Lidl first to buy the eggs and flour because its 87p cheaper. Then I find Morrisons have run out of sparkly unicorn decorations when I get there. I now can't make a sparkly unicorn cake for my original budget of £5.87. I now demand Morrisons provide me with a unicorn cake or pay for me to return the now useless ingredients to Lidl. Reasonable?

But when they are specifically asked whether my order is going ahead and in stock they should have said. The system says it’s in stock, however we can’t guarantee this is the case. That would have enabled me to make an informed decision.

The company obviously knows the faults in its stock system but still chose not to share this information.

They need to update customer services so that when people enquire about stock levels they are honest and say that they can not confirm stock levels with any certainty what so ever.

Anyhow lesson learned, I now know not to Trust CRC / Wiggle with any high value orders, and they really do not care about their customers

We had similar recently with a nearby (highly regarded) West Lothian LBS.

They had what appeared to be the perfect bike for my wife, but just to be sure I rang up to check, and also asked if we could take away on the day (Covid etc. didn't want to make return trips). We even had a wee joke about how unreliable stock control systems were as I used to wirk in a big chain store and was well used to it.

Guy confirmed on phone that they had three in stock, built up on shop floor, happy days.

Arrive at store, guy I spoke to is on lunch, ither guy acts like this is a deal breaker as if someone else can't sell me the bike, and then goes on to confirm they don't have any stock of the bike we were looking fir,even managing to act as if this was somehow our fault and basically acted as if he couldn't give a rat's ass, certainly in no hurry to assist us looking at alternatives.

Weng home, found a decent equivalent on Cycle Republic, phoned to check they actually had it and placed order same day. Will believe it only when it actually arrives...

Blimey. It’s annoying but it’s a stock discrepancy. No one has deliberately mislead you. How many thousands of products do CRC sell? There’s bound to be stock errors. You’ve done well to get a voucher tbh.

Sounds like pretty reasonable service from CRC to me, they told you when they found out they had no stock. It could have been a lot worse.

The number of times I've seen stock discrepancies in bike shops - the staff are not checking the physical stock, they're looking at a computer screen which is telling them more or less the same info as it's telling the website, perhaps with some minor lags in updating.

Countless reasons it could be inaccurate, most of which @andrewreay has summed up very nicely up there ^^.

IME in shops, the only time the EPOS is 100% correct is right at the point the shop actually opens its doors to the public (and even then you often find something badged up wrong). You could just wait until they have more stock and buy that to go with your German rear wheel?

I'm still not clear on what the appalling service was ? Was the German shop appalling or was the appalling part missed from this thread ?

I’m still not clear on what the appalling service was

CRC - After being asked if the wheel was definitely in stock, them saying yes. If they couldn’t confirm that to be the case they shouldn’t have said it was.

How many individual items do you reckon are in their warehouse?

I’d say there’s going to be the odd error!

The person answering you will likely have also been looking at the system updating the website so if one is wrong, both are wrong but it’s not reasonable to think someone’s going to check the shelf given the size of the business do they have you the most accurate info they had.

This isn’t a small LBS your dealing with, it’s a huge warehouse https://www.expressandstar.com/news/local-news/2015/09/28/pictured-inside-the-enormous-wiggle-warehouse-in-bilston/

Local bike shops are available. Just saying like

Well who stocks Zipp then? I looked at Zipps website for stockist

What LBS wants to stock Zipp? Just look at that link a RRP £1350 wheel for £675. We stopped stocking when they would be for sale online below our cost price a couple of months after we had bought into the brand for dealer pricing etc.

CRC – After being asked if the wheel was definitely in stock, them saying yes. If they couldn’t confirm that to be the case they shouldn’t have said it was.

Do you feel it was a reasonable request on your part then.

Or perhaps it wasn't a clear request.

Sounds like you asked them to check the stock and they did that with the systems availible.

Next time you said " can you please toddle down to the warehouse and set me a photo of you holding the wheel with today's evening chronicle"

You'll get the response your looking for.

CRC – After being asked if the wheel was definitely in stock, them saying yes. If they couldn’t confirm that to be the case they shouldn’t have said it was.

If the customer service person (who, as mentioned above, is probably WFH/not in the same location as the stock, as they have more than one warehouse/office) had said ‘the system is showing it is in stock but, very occasionally, mistakes happen’ would you have cancelled your order, guaranteeing you wouldn’t get a very good deal, or crossed your fingers?

I wouldn’t have ordered due to the very large sums of money involved.

Maybe I just have to high an expectation all companies being honest.

John Lewis manage time get it right. My nearest store is 50 miles away, they have frequently rung the store and asked people to go and actually reserve the stock.

There was no sorry we will update our process so that if people directly contact again we will advise them stock is not guaranteed until you get a dispatch email. It’s basically Russian Roulette.

Now I know that I will avoid using again

Maybe I just have to high an expectation all companies being honest.

You seem like an intelligent chap, albeit a little bit angry. Surely you understand this isn't about honesty. The people you've asked have a system to use, occasionally, that system is wrong. Given the size of CRC/Wiggle, I reckon they'll actually have a pretty robust system in place. But it'll be run by humans, who sometimes make mistakes.

John Lewis manage time get it right. My nearest store is 50 miles away, they have frequently rung the store and asked people to go and actually reserve the stock.

Yes, that sort of stock checking is possible, when the stock is in front of you. Your LBS is also able to do this.

There was no sorry we will update our process so that if people directly contact again we will advise them stock is not guaranteed until you get a dispatch email. It’s basically Russian Roulette.

In Russian Roulette, the odds are 1 in 6 you're going to die. In this instance, knowing stock control as I do, it's probably 1 in 10000 that you're not going to get the bit of bike jewellery you're after. Not seeing the similarity myself.

Op
You need to get a grip of reality and have a look at what is going on in the world out of your little bubble!

Seems like the op is a crybaby
😂👌

IMO the OP took the time to ring and check stock with them. They could have sent someone into the warehouse to visually check, if they wanted. Given the presumed margin on those wheels, what's 5 minutes' work for a poor warehouse worker on minimum wage?

If the answer he was given on the phone is no better than what he can see on the website and is (for all the reasons listed above) potentially inaccurate, a) WTF is the point of any sales people and b) he should have been told that on the phone call.

I'd be annoyed too. Just one of those things - not much you can do.

As said above, you cannot compare a high street shop to an online retailer. If people phone me in my shop, yes I can check if I have the item. If you call our online helpdesk somewhere in England (and not in the same place as the warehouse) you may get the answer CRC gave you. CRC sell 15million items a year (according to earlier link) so a 98% accuracy leaves a 300,000 error rate (the place I work aim for 98% stock accuracy for the reasons mentioned earlier, theft damages etc). Even a 0.1% leaves 15,000 wrong stock figures. No one is perfect.

I wouldn’t have ordered due to the very large sums of money involved

How much have you lost? The cost of returning a wheel, if you decide not to keep it?

John Lewis manage time get it right. My nearest store is 50 miles away, they have frequently rung the store and asked people to go and actually reserve the stock.

That’s you ringing the shop where the stock is held though, so they can hold the item and say it’s in stock. If you rang a JL in Bristol, asking if the Manchester Shop has a thing in stock, it might not be quite so accurate.

Now I know that I will avoid using again

Until the next great deal?

🍿

Hope you can move on with your life OP.

Thoughts & prays OP 🙏

TBF the OP has come on here asking AIBU...sticking the "first world problem" boot in is a bit harsh/thick.

I think he's just (chosen to be) at the sharp end of the price war culture we've probably all contributed to in buying online...

Interesting thread. Folks with no posting history coming on to stick the boot into someone being negative about CRC.

FD chalk it up to experience. The chances are the person you contacted is working from home atm so they wouldn’t be able to physically check and the warehouse are probably running a reduced number of staff to adhere to social distancing and all this at a time where we’re hearing there is a massive demand for bikes and parts, so there’s no chance of them having the time to go check every stock enquiry that comes through. So yes your expectations were unreasonable.

That seems to be the way bike shops work. Lie through their teeth about having stock when they don’t. Then hope they can order from distributors and get it to you before you notice.

Not really. You need to know which ones do work like that and the only one I know does that is Tredz but even they now give a hint (i.e 7 days mean they don't actually have ti and hope the distributor does)
I have used CRC and Wiggle for 10+ years and have 100% found them correct when they say in stock so would put this down to an error.
Get refund, buy elsewhere, just one of those things. It is just a bike wheel after all...

"Aye sure, i'll just pop into the warehouse and open the box to make sure..."

You seem pretty convinced you aren't being unreasonable...

The fact it's now showing in stock again on their website suggests they couldn't initially find it, assumed out of stock, cancelled your order, and marked it out of stock. Then it turned up and they've relisted it. I'd be tempted to try again. CRC and Wiggle have always been brilliant and really what t do you have to lose now, if it's still an error they'll refund you?

“Aye sure, i’ll just pop into the warehouse and open the box to make sure…”

Presumably they have a method of identifying if something is on a shelf when someone, you know, buys it?

Not really. You need to know which ones do work like that and the only one I know does that is Tredz but even they now give a hint (i.e 7 days mean they don’t actually have ti and hope the distributor does)

Oh no, I’m well aware that’s how they work, but they’re still being dishonest when they say it’s in stock and it isn’t. In my case the item was showing as “in stock order now for despatch in 4 days.” But in fact it took 10 days to despatch.

But then I searched for the cheapest option so apparently that means I shouldn’t expect honesty.

Presumably they have a method of identifying if something is on a shelf when someone, you know, buys it?

And they did . They identified it wasn't and let you know.

Once you have bought it is a good time to invest the time to find out.

If they responded to every can you physically check the stock speculative email that very rarely turns into a sale......the price would go up.

It's not about being honest it's about having expectations inline with paying lowest dollar and expecting a.minimum wage call centre worker to go over and above ......

As others have pointed out the aspect you need to question if you can be so inclined is why it's showing stock again....

Maybe I just have to high an expectation all companies being honest.

They're not being dishonest, their system made a mistake. Being disappointed and frustrated is quite reasonable, accusations of "lying" and "dishonest" are silly. Expecting them to sort out your shipping to Germany is unreasonable.

Being disappointed and frustrated is quite reasonable, accusations of “lying” and “dishonest” are silly

Agreed - you don't come over too well in this imo. Much worse than CRC/Wiggle.

When customers go straight to verbalising in these terms over something like this it leaves nowhere to go for genuine dishonesty and lying and does none of us any favours. Back in your box.

IMO the OP took the time to ring and check stock with them. They could have sent someone into the warehouse to visually check, if they wanted. Given the presumed margin on those wheels, what’s 5 minutes’ work for a poor warehouse worker on minimum wage?

I worked for Evans Cycles for a while including a stint in their Epsom warehourse (short staffed around Christmas time). It was vast (and that was before they moved to the even bigger Gatwick warehouse). It had a specific picking system, forklifts, a winch system for one of the racks...

You did not go in there to "just check something". It certainly wouldn't have been 5 minutes, it could have been 30 including needing a forklift or a racking ladder.

Computer says yes, you have to assume that computer is right but as mentioned above (several times...) there will be occasions where it's either not right or it is right and the wheel is in stock but you get it down and it's damaged or missing a part or something.

And all of this is before you get to the current Covid situation where it's very likely that "office staff" are WFH, social distancing is in place etc.

CRC are awful, I’ve stopped using them since the wiggle takeover.

I can certainly see why you’d be annoyed about this. Probably a case of buying from a more reputable company next time.