[Closed] CRC being absolute shits.. advice needed!

This could get interesting.

There's nothing you can do about it. You ordered the wrong item and they agreed to refund your money. CRC's policies on things like that are frustrating, but people buy there because their prices are so low, not for the service. They must ship an unbelievable quantity of goods, so they aren't going to mess around actually swapping items. They'll cancel one order and you have to reorder the product, that's how their system works because it's the cheapest way for them to do it. Kick some shit round the garden for a bit, have a beer, and forget about it, there's nothing you can do.

That would be my response too except for the fact that I have a written agreement to swap

Hmmm.....yes you have a right to return for a refund, but they are also entitled to change prices based on demand and according to a report I read it's a seller's market, with the increase in demand some shops have run out of stock.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/may/09/coronavirus-cycling-boom-makes-a-good-bike-hard-to-find

It would be nice if they kept the same price for you but I suspect going public and calling them shits isn't going to help that goodwill feeling.

Coffee - White with sugar ..... and Hob Nobs Please

Ive got my own seat

No sign that there was ever any goodwill feeling from them in this case!

So you messed up and ordered the wrong size, and have missed out on the sale price as a result? Not clear what CRC have done wrong here.

So you messed up and ordered the wrong size, and have missed out on the sale price as a result? Not clear what CRC have done wrong here.

Made a promise that they're now refusing to deliver?

I think that if you were asking for an exchange, based on the damaged box/bike, there wouldn't be a problem. But you'd get like for like ie, same size/spec.

As you've already said you ordered the wrong size (I assume they'll have some sort of record of this), then you're probably only entitled to a refund. Any return fees are on you for making the initial mistake.

IANAL

So you messed up and ordered the wrong size, and have missed out on the sale price as a result? Not clear what CRC have done wrong here.

I asked 'can it be collected and swapped" they replied "yes ok". They have at best misled me about their exchange policy (or lack thereof). At worst lied.

1. You can't do anything about it.
2. It matters less than you believe in your state of pissed-offness.

except for the fact that I have a written agreement to swap

IANAL so don't know if a transcript of the webchat is a written agreement (and certainly what you have above isn't, anyone could have created that, do you have a screenshot)

And in any case what i see there is not clear - if you are hanging your hat on

no thanks – it sounds like I should get the delivery
then I can check the size and if it is too big pay the £25 to have it collected and swapped?

GALE 4:06 PM
Yes okay

as the agreement, what goes before where it says that you send back, get refunded and get a replacement contradicts that and creates ambiguity and you can't pick and choose the bits you like and discard the bits you don't.

Sell your wrong sized one at inflated price due to above sellers market and buy something else from another retailer you like?

I wonder if you could have refused to accept the delivery. Not much help now I guess, but I think I’d have been tempted.

As to agreeing to swap I doubt that can be enforced. I dare say the “refund if you return the item” policy is in the T&Cs somewhere. You had the option to order the other size at the lower price as soon as you realised your mistake and they have the right to change prices. I can fully understand your frustration, but I doubt there is much you can do.

Yes the chat transcript was emailed to me by CRC.. what would be the point in me fabricating this for a forum? I agree that the preceding conversation could lead to ambiguity. I understood it as if I turned the delivery driver around on the spot then I would need to go through the refund/reorder otherwise a swap was possible.

Unfortunately I think the customer services rep has conversationally provided you with incorrect information as to your options, and I am sure will have been subsequently put right by whoever enforces the company policy on such matters.  Whilst you have the transcript, this is probably more use to them in a disciplinary case with the employee rather than helping you get your way.

Any deviation to this policy once the official process has been actioned (ie customer services rep goes to sort your case out in the system, and realises that they cannot) will be down to goodwill, and large companies rarely go out of their way to do this, usually as it is too much hassle and/or it sets a precedent.

CRC return policy

"what-is-your-returns-policy"

We make it simple for you – if you are not completely satisfied with your purchase, simply return the item or items to us in their original condition within 365 days of receipt. We will issue you a refund on receipt, or exchange for a different product.

- doesn't say who chooses, so not really a lot of help.

I didn't say you'd made it up, I said if you wanted to use it as evidence of a written agreement (and still not sure if a webchat transcript is) then you'd need more than your transcript which COULD have been fabricated.

It seems that what we have is a misunderstanding, you thought she was saying OK you could send it back for a replacement in a different size, she thought what she was saying was OK, you can send back for a replacement and then buy again.

And again, if I was looking for a fair and equitable solution calling them shits on a website probably isn't how i'd start.

Misled? Lied? I don't think so. Not been clear....for sure. But nor have you because otherwise there can't be any confusion...you both think you were clear, obviously neither of you were.

And again, if I was looking for a fair and equitable solution calling them shits on a website probably isn’t how i’d start.

Yes it is a last resort, I've got nothing to lose at this point - I've already been through an email exchange trying to resolve it with no luck.

I think you can only really on a good will here to be honest.

Personally (and allowing for Covid) I'd call them if possible and basically grovel. A good old fashioned call can work wonders sometimes...if their lines are open?

If that fails, and it's likely, I'd give it up I'm afraid and carry on the search for a bike within budget.

I do get why you are angry op,I would be, though at myself as much as the shop for making the mistaken order. I've done similar though!

So.... Yeah, try and call them, be mega polite and ask if they can help you out here. 👍

Yeah, try and call them

Heh I wish... even Live Chat is never available at the moment. Emails get replied to every day or two if you're lucky so it gets very drawn out having a conversation. Despite their warehouse probably running at full throttle during Covid, they have decided to cut back their customer service to the absolute minimum.

fair enough.

It's a sellers market right now, IANAL but the 'evidence' is at best confusing to me about what was really agreed to so don't see how you can win that one if they don't want to play ball. Sorry.

What did you get - if the price diff is £1100 sounds like something nice!

ichabod
Member
Yeah, try and call them

Heh I wish… even Live Chat is never available at the moment.

Ah, that is indeed a sod. Are the phones not manned at all or have interminable wait?

I'd send it back and get the refund. Then walk away and think about buying another bike. Back to square one etc.

If you continue down this road you may well end up stuck with the wrong size bike and / or a lot of headaches.

Is there a chance that the size you wanted was not at the sales price? Wouldn't be the first time, and if they are struggling to shift certain size frames it's easy to make the mistake in the options section - i have (not on frames/bikes but components)..??

I'm not sure they even have a phone line these days? Certainly can't find it anywhere on their site. re. sale price, all sizes were on sale and in stock

It seems that what we have is a misunderstanding, you thought she was saying OK you could send it back for a replacement in a different size, she thought what she was saying was OK, you can send back for a replacement and then buy again

Absolutely this, she agreed you can accept the "damaged" delivery (for what its worth now OP that was the wrong decision on your part and you should have refused the delivery but I digress) then pay to return it and have it swapped.

To be very clear a like for like swap is a swap, same size for same size.

I immediately contacted CRC to request the exchange but they refused telling me I’d have to return it for a refund and purchase again.

So before the live chat, you knew your get a refund.

No the bike would be refunded and you will need to re-order

It was made clear in the chat, return for refund.

no thanks – it sounds like I should get the delivery
then I can check the size and if it is too big pay the £25 to have it collected and swapped?

GALE 4:06 PM
Yes okay

So you then asked, given what's gone before it if you can pay 25 for the privilege of the refund. You don't mention "exchange for another size". You don't mention a 1k Discount on the item you should have ordered, you just mention a swap. She's not lied to you, she's not misled you, you just don't understand your own question.

On an aside, being crc, was the smaller size ever at the 1k less price? Very often their pricing is wildly different from one size to another.

To clarify, the LiveChat took place two weeks before delivery

To clarify, the LiveChat took place two weeks before delivery

[s] Yet relates to the damaged delivery? [/s]

Ah no, you're not wanting to refuse as damaged, you're wanting to refuse as not required.

No, at that point obviously I had no idea it would be damaged and neither did the rep!

I immediately contacted CRC to request the exchange but they refused telling me I’d have to return it for a refund and purchase again.

This was no part of the LiveChat but by email directly after delivery

First she says you can return it for a £25 fee:

you can return … There is a charge for return. Which is approx £25

Then she gives you another option, which is to refuse delivery:

you can refuse delivery [in which case] the bike would be refunded and you will need to re-order

Then she offers to cancel the order:

I will contact the department to see if it is possible to stop, but this is not guaranteed … Do you want me to try and cancel this?

At this point you decline that offer and choose to take delivery. You've already been told that this will incur a £25 cost and will require you to re-order the bike, and you already know that the price has gone up.

You had all the information. You made an informed choice.

Arguing over the fine print aside... I'm more just surprised about the complete lack of goodwill from CRC. I made a mistake and their rep also made a mistake/miscommunication. AFAICS it is no skin off their nose to swap the bike - I would be sending back a Medium for a Small which are both in stock. Why be so stubborn about it and risk losing a customer and me sending the bike back and washing my hands of it?

I've previously bought from Canyon and had amazing service with warranty, returns etc no questions asked even when things are technically out of warranty period.

AFAICS it is no skin off their nose to swap the bike … Why be so stubborn about it and risk losing a customer and me sending the bike back and washing my hands of it?

Because, as you've already pointed out, they'd be writing off over a grand to do that, in order to please someone who makes a fully informed decision about dealing with their own cock-up and then goes on an Internet forum calling them "absolute shits" as a result.

So if I've got this right...

Order bike

Realise its the wrong size (but now 1k+ more)

Live chat
You) Can I return?
CRC) Yes £25.
You) Exchange for new size?
CRC) No, refund.
You) Can I swap it? [you don't mention for the new size or anything else to which they already flatly told you no]
Crc) yes [so for the same, not different, completely in agreement with the rest of the conversation]

Bike arrives, damaged.

You) Can I exchange for a different size
Crc) no we'll refund [or i assume also like for like replace for damaged].

There's no agreement to exchange for another size, if anything, you're trying to trick the CRC rep by asking them to agree to something to which they've already told you plainly no, by rewording your request and leaving out the very important bits of info which tell them "you're being asked to contradict your self here".

Because, as you’ve already pointed out, they’d be writing off over a grand to do that, in order to please someone who makes a fully informed decision about dealing with their own cock-up and then goes on an Internet forum calling them “absolute shits” as a result.

Writing off? if the bikes they have in stock are suddenly worth a grand more then the bike I'm sending back is also worth a grand more - it's zero sum.

If the bike was actually damaged when it arrived then you can send it back at their expense and you're no worse off than you were before. I'd see that as a stroke of luck that makes your own mistake cost-free, no?

Why be so stubborn about it and risk losing a customer and me sending the bike back and washing my hands of it?

How long would it take you to spend enough to recoup the 1k they lost on that sale? If they're running a 40% margin - which I doubt) that's 3.5k of sales to recoup that loss and make 0 on the 3.5k.

If you send the bike back, they can resell it and make their margin.

You're not a customer if you're only costing them money.

if the bikes they have in stock are suddenly worth a grand more then the bike I’m sending back is also worth a grand more – it’s zero sum

Unless that's subsidised by the supplier. I don't deal with bike retail but, used to deal with supermarkets, often the "sale" price was taken off the unit by us after the sale, so if they sold 30k boxes in the week long £1 off offer we'd refund the cost of 30k afterwards. The supermarket's margin never changed, the sale is swallowed by the supplier.

Writing off? if the bikes they have in stock are suddenly worth a grand more then the bike I’m sending back is also worth a grand more – it’s zero sum.

Point taken, I was getting distracted by the remarks about the price differences often being size-related.

@dangeourbrain

I think that is still mixed up - the bike was not actually damaged just the box and I've not asked to return because of that. My reading of the initial chat is that I would get a refund if I refused delivery but could get a size "swap" if I accepted delivery then requested an exchange. The whole chat conversation pertains to exchanging for a different size not to exchanging due to damage. At that point I did not realise that CRC have no exchange policy, so accepted the reply of the rep at face value.

You're right, the damage is a red herring but the point remains. They were very clear, return and refund, there is no agreement in any of what you posted to anything different on their part.

I think a medium would suit you better anyway.

Longer is the new black etc...

I’m more just surprised about the complete lack of goodwill from CRC.

They're cheap because they sell online and ship directly from a huge central warehouse. They aren't setup to provide personalized service. If you want that, you need to go to a local shop and pay for it.

AFAICS it is no skin off their nose to swap the bike

It probably is. They just aren't set up to do stuff like that. They take orders online, those are processed automatically and sent to the warehouse, then the stuff is shipped. Returning stuff means cancelling the order and putting in a new order. Setting up a system to swap stuff would not be worth the expense because it's not how their business model works.

I noticed crc don't do exchanges any more on return form, presumably for this reason too much scope for confusion. I know it's a big ticket item but they suggest on the return form (from memory) you buy the correct item and send back the incorrect, so you don't havd to wait for refund / exchange first. Usually refunds are no quibble.

To be fair, having now re-read it for the nth time I can see how you'd justifiably interpret it the way you have. I mean, it's still one of life's "take it on the chin" moments given that it's ultimately your own error and that this is about ambiguous communication rather than actual business practice (I suspect the returns section of their site may offer some clarity*), but I see where you're coming from.

* – Edit: hmm, no, it doesn't.

if the bikes they have in stock are suddenly worth a grand more then the bike I’m sending back is also worth a grand more – it’s zero sum

Unless that’s subsidised by the supplier. I don’t deal with bike retail but, used to deal with supermarkets, often the “sale” price was taken off the unit by us after the sale, so if they sold 30k boxes in the week long £1 off offer we’d refund the cost of 30k afterwards. The supermarket’s margin never changed, the sale is swallowed by the supplier.

It sounds like I'm contradicting myself here sorry as I'm missing the important bit.

They make the same £ profit on the sale at full price or reduced. ifand it's a big if, they can restock and resell at new price, the £ number stays the same but the return is lower.

For argument sake:

At full price the bike is 5500.
Crc make 1600 ish on that.(40% markup)
That's a return of 30%

The bike was reduced to 4400
Crc make 1600 on that
That's a return of 36%

That % figure is very important. Much more important than the £ & pence figure.

To be fair, having now re-read it for the nth time I can see how you’d justifiably interpret it the way you have.

I do have some sympathy with you but CRC have made up their mind so you aren’t going to get your way. I say get your refund and spend your money elsewhere.

Yeah it's annoying when you miss out on a mega deal by screwing up 🙄 I'm sure we've all done similar at some point.

you are in effect costing them though - if you return then they have two bikes to sell at +£1100, one of which they would like to be to you. It's a bit rude but it's £1100 extra compared to doing a swap for no extra, and if they feel they can sell both again....

Maybe see if they will do a deal somewhere between, if it's the bike you really want

At full price the bike is 5500.
Crc make 1600 ish on that.(40% markup)
That’s a return of 30%

The bike was reduced to 4400
Crc make 1600 on that
That’s a return of 36%

That % figure is very important. Much more important than the £ & pence figure.

You're looking at it backwards.

The cost of goods remains the same, so they make less on the sale.

The only time COGS wouldn't remain the same is if the manufacturer/distributor is doing a rebate on the SKU, which is possible to be fair but impossible for us to know.

I have just come good with Wiggle. I bought a bike in their sale.
Now it's £1100 more!
I reckon I can get that back on ebay tomorrow!
Free bike!

But I'm rather disappointed about a camera I bought 3 weeks ago, it is £100 cheaper now.
Do you think I can send it back and get a refund?
If not, do you reckon I can sue them, as they never told me the price was going down.

I'm with CRC. You ordered the wrong thing and they've agreed to refund it. Get the money back and buy something else.

Should have just refused delivery and they would have taken it back to CRC.

"Absolute shits" is a bit strong, really.

Bit frustrating I'm sure, but maybe get the refund and wait until they discount again.

Did you accidentally click the wrong size or not look at the geometry?

Absolute shits” is a bit strong, really

True.. clickbait though 🙂

Ask yourself what am I really pissed off about, CRC's approach to this or myself for ordering the wrong size. You seem to me, and I speak as a man of much experience in these things, to be desperately trying to do anything but face your own stupidity. If it's any consolation the feeling usual passes after a few months and then only comes back every so often to totally reduce you a self loathing wreck.😊

I'd get a refund and then go and see a nice local bike shop.

I'm in the process of building up anew bike for my son and bought a new SRAM groupset off eBay and once I started fitting it realised that I preferred Shimano.I couldn't return it but did manage to sell it on again for a few quid more and recover my costs.

I've now ordered a new Shimano groupset from a local shop and paid a bit more for it in the process. However the whole shopping experience was nicer and I know that i'll be looked after on all the other bits and pieces that I will no doubt need and when I do need those bits it is only a 20 minute drive.

I get you are pi$$ed off, i would be too but it was your error.

I booked a flight last year and accidentally booked the tue rather than the wed. I got that changed to wed but had to pay the extra £159 the wed flight was. I didn't expect to get the wed flight for the tue price.

So I can see why CRC have said they can either refund you or you pay the difference for the different item. Annoying/frustrating even poor customer care but you have to suck it up.

You still haven't answered the important question of what you ordered, I just spent 10 minutes reading this and the only bit I was interested in was the bike, can you exchange the 10 minutes I wasted for the information we all really want please

AFAICS it is no skin off their nose to swap the bike –

Apart from two extra courier fees, the time for staff to check over returned bike, put back on shelf and on system for sale again, having lost a sale of a small frame as someone had mistakenly ordered it and agreed to the delivery at thier cost then changed their mind...

It probably is. They just aren’t set up to do stuff like that. They take orders online, those are processed automatically and sent to the warehouse, then the stuff is shipped. Returning stuff means cancelling the order and putting in a new order. Setting up a system to swap stuff would not be worth the expense because it’s not how their business model works.

They can if they want and do ... I had a whole conversation and email basically just buying a thru-axle their website had specs 2 different incorrect (impossible) ways.
I had a basket of 2 small items already ordered without the thru axle they could see and I asked if they could ship it all together to come in over £20 for delivery... they cancelled the unshipped order and created a new one with all 3.

Even better than the non-paired wheel one.

you screwed up, move on