[Closed] Crazy bike idea

There'll be someone inordinately cleverer than me along to give you the detail but I imagine as the swingarm isn't the right one the leverage ratio will be out a bit compared to normal. Also, I'd want to check clearance on full extension/compression to make sure the swingarm and tyre wouldn't foul anything.

Straight forks onto an oversized headtube can be done with adaptors.

Hmm yes I'd have to take pics to scale and then try and measure.

But then again, maybe he’s just dismantled a stolen bike and has no idea that the two parts need to be sold together.

More likely the swingarm cracked and has been binned, probably legit but just ask some pertinent Qs.

I can't offer any advice on your crazy idea, but do keep us posted if you go ahead.

🙂

Are cracking swingarms a thing on those? If so that makes me feel more comfortable. I assumed that the front triangle would crack more.

It's £250 though which is a bit steep for a shot in the dark. But then again, maybe I can sell it on if it doesn't fit. Also, he's local so I could take my swingarm along and try it.

The Stage 6 frames in pictures seem to have the same stud arrangement for the pivot bearings as the Patriot does, so maybe the axle is a removeable part.

Yes, mine came to me (secondhand) with a brand new swingarm replaced under warranty. My friend's cracked too.

They did revise the design and it doesn't appear to be an ongoing problem, but it was a known issue with the early Stage 6s.

Ah that makes a lot more sense.

What headtube is on it? Looks massive, surely not just a tapered job?

it's a tapered ZS49/EC49

I could take the swing-arm and shock of my old bike and take it over.

A lot of things will have to work out for it to work at all, and more things for it to work well...

The big problem I can see that doesn't seem to be mentioned, is that pivot locations have changed tons and that's going to impact on clearances etc, looking at the frames it seems like the Stage's pivot is a fair bit further back, which is likely to affect seat tube clearance. The seat tube itself's slightly angled (or rather it's a straight tube but it joins to the front of the BB not straight into the shell like the Patriot) which again is going to impact clearance, both arms are basically designed to wrap around the seattube. So yeah, I don't think it's going to work, not without heroic bodges like reducing the travel to get back clearance, or serious reengineering of the sort that makes it all pointless

Fun project though. And not really a big risk if you can resell the triangle. And sure, the suspension pivots etc won't be where they want to be and that'll affect the suspension but it's an old Orange, the suspension was pretty compromised anyway, so it's not like it's a beautifully engineered multilink bike where everything's just so.

Orange have changed the pivot quite a bit from the days of the Patriot. The spacing between the bearings is wider, the bearings themselves are bigger and don't forget wheel size and boost spacing too. You may have to do a lot of fabricating to make it work and even then it may be crap!

But still do it, we all live a molgrips special project thread 😁

serious reengineering of the sort that makes it all pointless

Have you seen the price of a new Stage 6 frame never mind the whole bike?

If the bearing spacing has changed to be wider that'll abort the whole project. I might ask him to measure it.

Purely a guess, but the combination of single-ring-only, and boost rear ends might mean that the front triangle hole/tube is wider than the older style swing arms, and therefore won't fit.

it’s an old Orange, the suspension was pretty compromised anyway

Hey. The suspension on that old bike is great. I don't mind a bit of kick-back, and it's basically immune to rocks and doesn't bob so I think that's pretty okay. The reach is the only issue.

Have you seen the price of a new Stage 6 frame never mind the whole bike?

What about the price of two surviving halves? Shouldn’t be too long before a matching half pops up for sale 😉

molgrips
Full Member

Have you seen the price of a new Stage 6 frame never mind the whole bike?

Yep, but that's not really relevant is it? You're not facing a choice of "keep it the same, turn 2 bikes into one, or buy a brand new stage"- there are other used bikes. I mean, I wanted my 224 to be longer so I bought a size up, or I could have bought another used bike.

As soon as you get away from really basic stuff like spacers then things escalate real fast. Not just cost but you lose your reversibility. Keeping your current frame usable puts a big restriction on what you can experiment with, as does retaining the value of the stage 6 parts- you go all-or-nothing very early, and there's a huge area of stuff that might make it work, but are very committing to roll the dice on, or expensive compared to getting another bike.

molgrips
Full Member

The suspension on that old bike is great. I don’t mind a bit of kick-back, and it’s basically immune to rocks and doesn’t bob so I think that’s pretty okay

Yeah, but it's got the same issues as it moves into the end stroke that my 224 does, just because they couldn't get the shock in quite the right place (there's a downtube in the way) Effective, especially with a good shock but like I say, compromised.

That's not a criticism of the bike, kind of the opposite- the point is that if you moved the pivot a few mm in some designs it'd screw the whole thing up, whereas these, the pivots already aren't really quite where they want to be so a little bit of additional compromise isn't the dealbreaker it would be on other frames. It's already an imperfect but practical solution so it's a good home for another imperfect solution.

Do bear in mind that no matter what you do, the "new" bike won't have the same ride, you're changing too much. At the heart of it, it's not a "keep the bike I like but add more reach", like I've done by going up a size on my Remedy- and even that changes the feel a lot. In the end you'll have a pretty different bike.

there are other used bikes

Yes, but not for £250. The entry barrier for owning long travel bikes is quite high.

I'm not going to butcher anything anyway. If the bearings don't fit then it's off.

At the heart of it, it’s not a “keep the bike I like but add more reach”

No this is about keep the bike that's already in my garage and add reach.

I’m not going to butcher anything anyway

You might the first time you sit on it

I like the idea of the project but I doubt it’ll fit as now that all bikes are single ring specific, they’ve usually widened the pivot spacing for more stiffness.