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sometimes out of control dogs cause problems. That’s not shit happening, it’s completely unavoidable.
I didn't see a description of a dog out of control, just a dog running around like dogs do. You described the dog as coming out of the undergrowth, not disobeying the instructions of the owner. Based on your description, my view is that the dog wasn't acting out of control (apportioning blame to the owners), it just appeared unexpectedly and you couldn't respond in time. Of course I wasn't there so the only value in all of this conversation is yours as it's the only first hand evidence.
I re-iterate my question whether you would be making the same statement if it were a four year old child who also are often equally "out of control". Would you be chasing the parents for the damages in that scenario? What if it resulted in the child being in coma in hospital as a result of being "out of control" .... would you still be chasing the costs (that's what insurance is there for, right?)
Sure, be frustrated about it but it really is just shit happening ... unless you subscribe to the "where there's a blame there's a claim" view of the world where it suits the narrative of an "out of control" dog for the blame to sit solely on someone elses shoulders.
That's a strawman and his dog there. Hope it's on a lead.
Yea, in that case I'd just let them deal with it. IME trying to be helpful in these scenarios only makes things worse for you and better for the other party.
Unless you're the woman who drove into me, in which case by trying to milk it for all it was worth she gave two different versions of events to the insurance an her ambulance chasers so that ended up getting it resolved more in my favor.
I didn’t see a description of a dog out of control, just a dog running around like dogs do. You described the dog as coming out of the undergrowth, not disobeying the instructions of the owner
You're misconstruing "out of control" as having to be a deliberate act.
If something isn't under control, then it's out of control.
If I let my dog off the lead then it's because they have good enough recall for the situation at hand. That would vary for say a spaniel with 'some' recall in the middle of the woods or a beach near no-one. To our last lab who could be recalled and walk off-lead even around rabbits, deer, bikes, sheep, horses, kids. Her only weakness' were picnics and other labs.
So my Lab would have been "under control" off-lead on a shared path*. But then by definition if she did decide that today was the day she was going to start retrieving bikes rather than sticks then she would have been out of control and it would have been my fault.
If the dog's not appropriately behaved off-lead for the situation then that's the owners fault.
*although I would have put her on a lead if it was busy because she had a habit of sitting down when recalled with her tail taking up half the path.
> I realise I’ve not mentioned the state of the dog. It seemed fine, but very scared. From the photos he’s sent me, it has lost a thin line of hair on its right flank and nothing more.
I just want to be clear here; I'm not arguing for one second that because the dog is injured that invalidates any claim you might want to make; or that the dog shouldn't have been on a lead. But I do think it changes the perception of the dog owner and how they see the incident. Can you imagine how painful it would be lose a thin line of hair from either friction or heat from a disc rotor ? Dogs aren't humans; but they are intelligent animals with feelings and the human/pet bond is pretty strong. I think the dog owner is coming from a position of "my dog got really hurt/scared by this; I need to pay money to make it better and now the person who crashed into it wants me to pay for some stuff he damaged as well !" rather than "bloody cyclist"
@argee - I'll admit to being surprised myself. It's an old railway line so a gentle uphill, but you can't just hammer up it at warp speed and I'd already slowed down. I then hit the side of the dog - it was a big dog and like riding into a low wall and I just pivoted over the front axle and smacked straight into the ground.
@stevehine - in the email he sent yesterday evening, he said he was going to send me the vet bills. So I think he doesn't feel he should pay for them. I think at the time it seemed fairly clear I was going to be claiming for the computer - I showed them the damage and how it could no longer be fitted to the bike.
Of perhaps more concern is that my wife thinks I seem really addled. I had put this down to being a bit stressed but then last night I was talking about when we lived in Nottinghamshire - which we never have - and she started to panic a bit.
Dobermans are not easy breeds to train to a standard where letting them off lead in this environment is Okay. If they didn’t have eyes on it, it isn’t under control. It is actually rare to see a Doberman off lead at all.
I own spaniels, my oldest one has 100% predictable off lead behaviour. Even so, on a shared use path, he would be by my side or on a lead.
Can’t imagine the stress of allowing a Doberman to bound off into the undergrowth in an area where there are other people.
You’re misconstruing “out of control” as having to be a deliberate act.
I'm merely balancing the view of whether someone is to blame or whether 'shit happens'. I'm debating whether not under absolute control is the same as being "out of control". The question that keeps being ignored is whether everyone's response would be different if it were an "out of control" child or if it's just a convenient excuse to stand behind the OP and help throwing stones because it was a dog and dog owners are all idiots. Apart from.....
If I let my dog off the lead then it’s because they have good enough recall for the situation at hand.
The OP didn't mention any instruction from the owners to the dog .... his statement was that it just came out of the vegitation. Does your dog never disappear into the undergrowth and then re-appear somewhere unexpected? That my reading of the definition "out of control" in this instance.
@munrobiker get yourself checked out at the docs. Either GP or ring 111.
The question that keeps being ignored is whether everyone’s response would be different if it were an “out of control” child
We are ignoring it as it is so daft to not warrant discussing.
If I was the dog owner (or their insurer) and wanted to defend the claim ( being devil's advocate a little here) I'd argue back that
- shared use path. Cyclists must give way to pretty much everything else. Inc animals. You knew that its regularly used by dog walkers, as a regular user yourself. But you didn't give way adequately.
- Well used by kids and dogs etc...you knew that, yet still didnt have sufficient control of your bike in those circumstances - evidently STILL going too quick or not covering the brakes etc. Even after seeing the 1st dog.
Good job you'd not run into a 3 year old child that had run out. Would you be claiming for a gps then ?
- Would you try to blame the farmer if you hit a sheep that darts onto a bridleway next time you're riding in the Yorkshire Dale's? Even after seeing other sheep do it ?
Then I'd stick a counter - claim against you for vets bills etc for carelessly (recklessly even) crashing into my dog. Because I'd have taken my dog to be checked up.
Best thing to do is lick your own wounds, praise yourself for having the good sense to wear a helmet, replace the damaged stuff, locate the GPS in a less exposed place on the bars/stem if possible next time, and get on with life.
Oh, and be more careful next time.
Does your dog never disappear into the undergrowth and then re-appear somewhere unexpected?
Mine doesn't; no. He's also calm around bikes and would give one a 5m berth; but he's also not the dog under question 😀 I don't know the path; but if there were good sightlines I'm not sure I'd necessarily have him on the lead. As I said; if he was clumsy enough to get in someones way and cause a fall; then I'd be looking to be courteous and helpful and make amends. If I then got home; discovered he was in pain; took him to the vets and then discovered someone was claiming a few hundred ££ when I was expecting £50 or so; then I might have a bit of a different opinion. That's all I'm saying (I guess; trying to put myself in the shoes of a non-cycling dog owner)
It's not an easy one, but I don't think a dog off the lead on a shared use path should automatically qualify as "out of control" whether the letter of the law agrees is a different matter. I do think that the owner deserves a bit more empathy; this was an accident it's not like he or the dog went out of their way to do this.
The question that keeps being ignored is whether everyone’s response would be different if it were an “out of control” child
OP responded to this on page 2. Said that if it was a kid it wouldn't be his fault either.
Does your dog never disappear into the undergrowth and then re-appear somewhere unexpected?
No, never. I chose to own a spaniel as once matured they can be completely trusted. I want to own a dog that is pleasant to walk safe in the knowledge it won’t cause other people/livestock any grief.
I would never consider owning a Doberman as I don’t think my living circumstances are appropriate to the breed, and by that I mean large country house with land. Even if they were I wouldn’t want one.
– shared use path. Cyclists must give way to pretty much everything else. Inc animals. You knew that its regularly used by dog walkers, as a regular user yourself. But you didn’t give way adequately.
I just despair with the utter ignorance sometimes, and on a cycling forum no less. I'm off to enjoy a shared use path where nobody has the right of way, so everyone is equally responsible for their actions. I'll keep my speed down and watch out for others, and I'll be expected to give way no doubt, but if a dog owner lets their animal off its lead, then they're breaking the rules. It's really that simple.
I’m off to enjoy a shared use path where nobody has the right of way, so everyone is equally responsible for their actions
Not in The UK then? There is a hierarchy here
The OP didn’t mention any instruction from the owners to the dog …. his statement was that it just came out of the vegitation. Does your dog never disappear into the undergrowth and then re-appear somewhere unexpected? That my reading of the definition “out of control” in this instance.
No, she had a real aversion to thistles and thorns 🤣
But that was my point, letting a dog crash through the undergrowth miles from anywhere with no one around is IMO an appropriate level of control. Letting them do that on/near a shared path/road/park isn't. I happily walk my parents spaniel off-lead because where they live you'd be unlucky to see anyone else on a walk even one long enough to need a half-way picnic so he runs miles even though I'd say his recall is only excellent rather than near-perfect (you won't get him out of a stream/river).
As soon as they causes a problem though, then by definition I would say it was out of control because the owner has failed to control it. Whether that was because the dog was not obeying commands or because the owner wasn't giving it any is immaterial.
Seeing as this threads covered every other straw man and his dog, I'll go for a Straw-car. Would you absolve someone of a car crash because they took their hands off the wheel and thus by your definition were neither responsible for doing things that cars do (appear into groups of baby robins and children's faces at high speed), and that the car wasn't even "out of control" because no one was attempting to control it?
There sure is: https://www.swansea.gov.uk/sharewithcare?lang=en - for example.
Share with care, but not a right of way, and certainly not for animals. On or off leads.
It's about the actual responsibilities of dog owners we're discussing, after all.
@munrobiker I've got no real advice but FWIW I think you're in the right and dogs should be on leads when using shared use paths. However, in this instance, the owners are being knobbers, I'd back away and replace your stuff yourself.
Vets bills will get expensive and it'll be your word against theirs. And we all know how 90% of the population feel about cyclists.
Of perhaps more concern is that my wife thinks I seem really addled. I had put this down to being a bit stressed but then last night I was talking about when we lived in Nottinghamshire – which we never have – and she started to panic a bit.
You need to be checked out, don't ignore it.
@fathomer - I'd like to walk away, but now he's threatening me with vets bills I feel like I need to resist. If he tries to make me pay them, that'd be a real pain.
Are animals in the hierarchy for shared use paths? I'd assume it'd go humans (pedestrians>horse riders>cyclists) at the top, then dogs at the very bottom. To suggest that the dog is more important than any human seems insane.
Vets bills will get expensive and it’ll be your word against theirs. And we all know how 90% of the population feel about cyclists.
I honestly can't see their counter claim working, especially off lead on an area that's busy with multi-use, but flip it round and it's a small claim going to a sheriff who has nothing but claimants statements to make a judgement on.
It would be nice if the OP got the funds to fix their kit, but it just sounds like it's getting more painful by the day, it's just the nature of people that's always disappointing, personally i just live with the belief in karma, and hammering frozen sausages into their garden for the dobermans to feed on 🤣
Yet here you are!
If the dog owner genuinely cared about your health, and that of other humans (including wee children - won't somebody think of the children), then letting a doberman off on a shared use path out of sight is a funny way of showing it.
Dog ownership seems to do funny things to some people's concept of society.
I know there are a lot of dogs around, but I think came across the same two one evening last week while cycling out to the pentlands, just before the colinton tunnel. They were charging around while the owner seemed to be paying little attention to them. I had already slowed down, but had to all but stop when one came out of the trees and across the path right in front of me. We avoided each other though. Owner apologised, I carried on.
I’ve got to ask it, you were going uphill, at 4.8mph, the dog hit you sideways, how did you end up over the bars?
Yeah, difficult to glean anything particularly useful from speed at the time of impact I'd have thought.
Unless you've got a full on black box with accelerometers etc showing there was no braking, then it would be difficult to prove you weren't going 95mph or something and braked heavily until impact at 4.8.
The owner does sound like a bit of a div mind you.
Hope you get the outcome you want.
Speaking as a dog owner - a dog off the lead you can no longer see is a dog out of control.
Doesn't matter how good its recall is.
I find it utterly unbelievable that anyone here is defending the dogowner.
Here's a tip - it's a shared use path, acting as a cycle lane, and as a dog owner you're responsible for not causing accidents, In this case the dog came darting out, unexpectedly, and that's 'not in control'.
Sorry for the dog, but it caused the crash, and that's the owners responsibility.
Are animals in the hierarchy for shared use paths?
No.
You have a general duty of care not to injure animals. Thats about it. they have no case at all unless they try to make out you were reckless in some way and even then its thin
I find it utterly unbelievable that anyone here is defending the dogowner
Nobody is, we're adding some perspective.
You have a general duty of care not to injure animals. Thats about it.
Uh huh.
..........................
You have a general duty of care not to injure animals. Thats about it.
And owners of animals have a duty of care to make sure they don’t injure anyone/anything else
Huh, well, one interesting thing to come out of it is that I ended up in an Edinburgh News Article on where to cycle in Edinburgh. I was looking for pictures of where the accident happened and saw this and thought "those look like my worst shorts" and sure enough, it's me riding along the same track back in February 2020. Just look how fast an irresponsible I am.
[img] 
?crop=3:2&width=640[/img]
And owners of animals have a duty of care to make sure they don’t injure anyone/anything else
correct - and the owner failed in the duty of care. Munrobiker did not
An out of control dog earlier this year. No way is that dog under control and will come to heal when asked. I mean look at him he’s got cyclist attacker all over him.
I don't think anyone is implying that the doberman in the incident attacked anyone, but it resulted in a collision by not being under control.
The same applies to a small dog.
Just look how fast an irresponsible I am.
You go that fast, you refract light. I'm not surprised you didn't see the second dog. 🙂
I don’t think I was being serious.
A dog not on the lead doesn’t mean they’re not under control. Oscar is extremely obedient, he’s told to come to heal when I see a cyclist approaching, I then either pick him up or hold his lead.
What if the risk had been noticed and the dog had just been recalled (call, Whistler, whatever) and was dutifully returning to heel with it's owner under perfect control, unfortunatly the timing was such that their two trajectories collided.
Technically the dog was therefore under control and it was all just an unfortunate accident.
<p style="text-align: left;">Not simply defending the dog as my wife had a life changing injury caused by two playing dogs in an off leash scenario but just pointing out that everyone's perception of events and definitions will always differ.</p>
Out of interest, how busy was this path at the time of the incident?
If it was busy, the this places more burden on the dog owner to keep their dogs under close control but if it was "empty" then I'd cut the dog owners a little more slack (though I'd still be telling them to stick their vet bills where the sun doesn't shine...)
IANAL...
Fao op - anything like this in your council area ?
https://www.westlothian.gov.uk/article/34355/Responsible-Dog-Walking
Question for dog owners - if the cyclist is between you and your dog, why not try sit instead of here. I’ve never had a sitting dog throw itself under my front wheel, had quite a few that were running along the path go for it though. (*yes I am down to about 3mph and holding a consistent line)
Drac - how do I know that dog will stay put? Should a passing cyclist be forced to slow down so you don't have to put a lead on? How about other people?
Freedom to do stuff comes with a responsibility to think what other people are going to do in a shared space. Being a mind reader isn't a common skill
I N R A T S but hope you heal up well Luke, and I think you are well within your rights to seek material and PI costs.
The dog owner bias in society is as strong as that of drivers. So many of them think they can do no wrong (not to mention those that hate cyclists).
According to the gov.com website linked earlier a dog which is dangerously out of control is one which has injured someone. IANAL but I read this as the dog has physically attacked and injured someone rather than by way of causing an accident (in effect the dog did not act with intent). We’ve had issues in nearby areas with out of control dogs (yep XL Bullys) and the police don’t want to know unless they’ve actually attacked someone (according the the curtain twitcher website).
Cycling Uk believe you could have a case, may be worth contacting them if you are intent of taking things further. Based on reading the thread I think the dog owner pushing for vets bills is a direct consequence of you asking him for the replacement of damaged gear, I doubt he was expecting a bill for an expensive helmet and GPS (after all a helmet and cycling computer from Halfords is about £50 right?) and has responded in a way which would push you to call it quits.
Dog owner and cyclist here, live SW London so have to use a lot of busy mixed use areas for walks. She does go off the lead on selected mixed use paths but I’m conscious of other path users (and aware of my responsibilities as a dog owner), just like I am if using the same paths on my bike.
Not all cyclists are polite and conscientious, there are a lot of idiots speeding around on bikes without due care and attention (we gets lots of food delivery riders on eeb conversions and muppets on Lime bikes round here who think they own the road/footpath) which could contribute to the clouding of judgement that you were in fact riding with due care and attention. On the other hand dog owners can be an entitled breed as well, I remember being told in no uncertain terms whilst on an Mtb ride that I shouldn’t be riding where I was (singletrack trails, not footpaths, came across her on a fire road) and that if I hit her dog I’d be in trouble, diffused that situation by telling her I had a dog too and as such am well aware of how to ride responsibly.
Get yourself checked out if you’ve had a hit to the head, and best of luck with your recovery and getting this resolved without too much aggro.
how do I know that dog will stay put? Should a passing cyclist be forced to slow down so you don’t have to put a lead on? How about other people?
Because I’ve taught him too. The cyclist should slow own as there’s pedestrian on the path.
Sue them till the pips squeak. Don't be squeamish about the personal injury even if minor, that's just the rules of the game and they are the ones upping the ante, you're well justified in retaliating within the law.
We were knocked off our bikes in the USA many years ago. The state trooper who attended said three words to us. Well, he said about 9 words in total, but only three different ones. "Get a lawyer. Get a lawyer. Get a lawyer."
The point of having dogs under control is to avoid injury to other parties isn't it?
What other reasonable precautions could you have taken to avoid this happening? None as far as I can see
What could they owner have done? Plenty. Unless the owner has a line of sight which includes both his dogs AND both the shared use paths I don't see how the dogs are "under his control" in a way which reasonably prevents injury to others.
I think you could reasonably predict that a dog jumping out at random on a shared use path will at some point cause harm to others. Owner sees dog and path - sees hazard approaching and calls dog to heel/sit immediately=dog under control. Anything else then owner is opening himself to a negligence claim. All IMO of course.
Dog owner here - I'd never consider letting him off lead on a shared path. There are dedicated hireable fields for that or plenty of places away from other people.
While we're throwing out strawmen and whataboutery arguments, do we know if the intent of the dog was to attack MB and it was then dissuaded by the collision? Maybe it was after some sweet, no-fat leg meat, but copped a load of disk rotor instead. It makes you think.
On a more sensible note, please get checked for concussion. My last one was mild but still left me out of sorts for days. And I don't know how many you've had in the past.
mrlebowski - thats under the dangerous dogs act. Irrelevant here. Its under Scots law the dog owner has a duty to keep the dog under control at all times
and they only way to guarantee 'under control' and remove any ambiguity is to have the dog on a lead.
Dog owner in the wrong. End of. Tell him to stick his vets bills and small claims court him/her/them if you can be bothered.
Person has a dog offlead on a shared path = ****
Person then tries coming the ab dabs with a vets bill rather than settling up = even more of a ****.
I’d like to walk away, but now he’s threatening me with vets bills I feel like I need to resist. If he tries to make me pay them, that’d be a real pain.
In your shoes, if I had 3rd party insurance, I'd probably de-esccalate by asking for his insurance details and providing yours "so they can sort it all out without wasting our time". Assuming the majority of people here are right and they are liable that should fall your way. If he knows that he's liable and either doesn't want the premium hike or isn't insured it might just get quickly resolved!
I hope you've got the head and knee checked out. Concussion protocol is such that you could easily end up with time off work (loss of earnings?), and even without physio that knee looked like it might be "worth" more than your helmet!
It’s pretty reasonable to expect dogs & children to be running about in/out of the path and the undergrowth gave a run about.
It’s also reasonable, as many have said, to expect owners of dogs and children to keep them close at hand and under control at all times - they are not a third parties responsibility, they’re their responsibility, and if injury results as a result of their dereliction of that responsibility and duty of care to others, then they need to be made to pay up for any injuries suffered. FAAFO.
I hope you’ve got the head and knee checked out. Concussion protocol is such that you could easily end up with time off work (loss of earnings?), and even without physio that knee looked like it might be “worth” more than your helmet!
I suffered an injury to my knee very similar to that, after my bike dumped me on the ground at about the same speed. The ultimate result being osteoarthritis in two places directly underneath the impact point on my kneecap. As proven by an x-ray several years later after my doctor just shrugged and dismissed it, and a second opinion got a lot of frowning while manipulating my knee, followed by the doctor telling me he didn’t like the way it felt at all, and promptly booked an x-ray at Bath RUH.
The impact damage to my crash helmet also showed that, had I not been wearing it, the damage to my head, just above my left eye, could have proved even more severe. As it was, I had a large graze across my left cheekbone. All that while moving at about walking speed.
That was a pure accident, due to no obvious reason I’ve ever been able to ascertain. I’ve not really ridden a bike since, because of that, I’m too lacking in confidence now, because of my lack of understanding as to the causes, nothing mechanical, or a tyre issue, I’m afraid of something similar doing even more damage and disabling me even more. I used to ride the local Sustrans routes, like the K&A Canal towpath, and even 10-12 years ago, I was having to deal with these sort of issues, I’m sure it’s probably a lot worse, because of the entitlement of ignorant dog and child owners. 😖🤬
So sorry you are dealing with the affects of the collision. I would be glad of their reasonableness and understanding - it’s far from my experience riding with care and consideration.
Apologies - bit of a rant here.
Fairly recently, I’ve been threatened with violence when a couple walking 4 small, out of control dogs in Cannock Chase, dog ran in front of my front wheel. I was riding with my son and my brother.
As an animal lover, the last thing I would have wanted is to injure his dog. I was accused of riding recklessly - but was riding at less than walking pace.
As a stroke and brain injury survivor, I warned him of the likely fatal consequences of him “knocking me out” as he repeatedly threatened. He continued to threaten me stating he didn’t care. I’m sure without witnesses he would have attempted violence.
I don’t go looking for confrontation - but he was lucky that he didn’t encounter a younger more impetuous and healthier me.
I am glad I didn’t respond physically to his aggression, verbal abuse and complete denial of his responsibilities.
He was a thug and bully - probably with issues with his self-confidence and masculinity. I make no apologies for telling him to knock me out as he threatened or finally telling him to **** off.
It's been confirmed that, while I'm doing OK now, I was concussed.
I hope your experience with concussion wasn’t too bad. It can be a miserable experience.
A poster earlier on your thread mentioned don’t be manoeuvred into paying any element of costs for injuring the dog - but they are definitely liable for costs caused to your bike, equipment or resulting from your injury.
Well, a year down the line things are still rumbling on.
This incident left me with concussion, which led to post concussion syndrome, which led to my hours at work being reduced, depression, anger, uncontrolled emotions, massive fatigue and headaches. I have only just in the last week started being able to get out of bed easily before 9am. I've had counselling, I'm on medication, I've seen psychologists, my GP and I'm on the waiting list for various mental health services. I almost failed my probation at work until we realised I was sick.
I lost enjoyment from and motivation to ride my bike, or anything much, for a long time. I wasn't able to do some of the races I had planned and my fitness fell off a cliff. I've gained about a stone in weight.
Thanks to whoever suggested Cycle Law Scotland - I've got a claim ongoing with them. The money isn't the driver - what I'd like is for this guy to be able to say to his mates "you want to keep your dog under control on shared use paths, this is what happened to me", and for them to keep their dog under control in future. Actually, what I'd really like is for the last year of my life back.
Take my story as a warning - please keep your dog under control where there's other people around, even better on a lead. Even a cyclist going slowly can end up with some serious injuries.
I’m a dog owner. I’ve had a few experiences with irresponsible dog owners too.
That sucks Luke, that is a tough year. 🙁
You have my utmost sympathy. I got bitten by a dog a couple of months ago cycling to work on a shared path and the owners refused to admit it had happened to start with despite showing them my leg pissing with blood. They then moved on to I'd been cycling too fast and came out of nowhere despite the dogs running towards me from 100yrds away. I reported it but had no way of realisticly taking it further as the owners simply walked off. Two months on it still gives me pain and there is a bit of a lump.
As I said in that thread, we have a dog fetish in this country and far too many owners just think the world should accommodate their lifestyle without question. Death, Injury, Pollution, Noise.....all acceptable collateral.
Good luck with your case
Really sorry to hear that, nothing more useful to add, I'm afraid.
UK-FLATLANDERFull Member
Out of interest I wonder what folk’s responses would be if it had been a kid on the bike and the injury was life threatening?
I'd like to see the answer too as it was completely overlooked when posted! this very much seems like a case of, as in more and more walks of life now, people misplaced "entitlement" to ignore/unable/unwilling to take personal responsibility for their actions/inactions.
That sucks MB, hopefully you're on the mend now and can get back to full health and get back on the bike.
As in a reply to a strawman argument about replacing an uncontrolled dog, that's out of the owners sight, with a small child also away from their parent/guardians care?
Not sure on the relative speed & inertia of a dobermann compared to a small child, but it makes you think. Mainly that people will think up any old b*llocks to avoid accepting that dogs must be under control on shared paths.
Think of what could happen if a dog ran out into the path of a little kid and hit it. Who's to blame then? Etc, etc.
Anyhow, hope you heal up soon @munrobiker
As always, society needs (or is going to need) people's kids.
It doesn't need your dogs. Keep them under control.
Cue lots of dog owners suddenly discovering their strongly held anti-natalist beliefs:
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-49298720
Actually, what I’d really like is for the last year of my life back.
Damn, that is awful to read.
I wish you well, I hope your recovery starts speeding up soon. The weight will come off very quickly as soon as you are ready to hit the button on riding again.
And I hope that you are properly compensated for all your injuries and lost opportunities. There is a small minority of dog owners who have no clue about responsible ownership and the potential consequences of their poor attitudes.
@munrobiker Hope things are getting better.
Had the kids out on a rail trail the other day. Despite signs everywhere and HC Rule 56 most people had their dogs off the lead. Challenged one couple and they completely refused to believe they were in the wrong.
really sucks, hope you get better munrobiker!
HC Rule 56
interesting, I was unaware of this.
Yeah, except it isn't a small minority is it. It used to be a small minority but as dog ownership has exploded and become the norm - i.e you're walking without a dog and people are looking at you suspiciously because you haven't got a pooch, why on earth would you be out walking otherwise....since we got to peak dog then its no longer just a few bad apples but a general level of dog owning incompetence.
HC Rule 56
Yep, most people seem oblivious to the rules; I posted the link to that section of the Highway Code earlier in this thread last year. It's even worse since then - people just seem to think shared used paths are the absolute best place to take an animal and let it loose. Why not just take it to any of the other thousands of miles of paved footpath that we're not allowed to ride on? Or better still, get your pristine boots muddy for once in your lives and let doggo enjoy a field or two. Safely, of course.
i.e you’re walking without a dog and people are looking at you suspiciously because you haven’t got a pooch, why on earth would you be out walking otherwise
Is this really a thing? Dog ownership does look like it's exploded recently, with the number growing from 10 million to 11 million in the last 4 years alone ( https://www.pdsa.org.uk/what-we-do/pdsa-animal-wellbeing-report/paw-report-2023/pet-populations). But that still means the majority of the population don't have dogs and I think it's bizarre for anyone to assume you'd only go for walks to walk the dog.
@munrobiker This whole episode really sucks, and I wish you a full recovery. You inspired me with how strong you were up those hills in the Pentlands 6 months ago, so it's even more humbling for me to know you were far from peak form then.
HC Rule 56
Yep, most people seem oblivious to the rules;
I should imagine most pedestrians don't realise there are rules in the Highway Code which apply to them. Why should they, has anyone ever told them?
that is a tough year. I hope your recovery picks up and is complete
I know this may sound controversial or anti-dog and doesn’t actually help, but I’m amazed that it is permitted to let dogs off of leads in public places (aside from areas that are specifically for dogs). It is very rare in my experience that an off lead dog is actually under the slightest control.
Well, according to the thread on the other forum you should be happy about the scars.
It’s also reasonable, as many have said, to expect owners of dogs and children to keep them close at hand and under control at all times –
Its actually a legal responsibility. Not doing so is a criminal offense
It is very rare in my experience that an off lead dog is actually under the slightest control.
I regularly ride on a shared use path used a lot by dogwalkers. The majority of dogs are under control - a large majority either on a lead of under the control of the owner. Its just the out of control ones are more obvious - you do not notice the old collie just plodding along minding its own business. You notice the one that runs at you barking
Twpo pals of mine have had well trained dogs that were never on a lead and always under control
I hope you have sued the arse off the owner. they and you deser4v e it. compensation for that sort of injury is a significant amount.
..
One thing that was happening before I started on the meds was every time I saw a dog on a ride I would get a genuine, deep feeling of fear, then anger for the rest of the ride. Given how many dogs you're likely to see on a normal ride from central Edinburgh, this basically ruined every ride for me. It was no way to get through life.
Even now I definitely react to dogs more strongly, and I would say on an average ride along the Water of Leith from Slateford to Balerno only about a quarter of the dogs are on leads or properly at heel. I notice every single one - my body goes tense and I get a flutter of fear every time I see a dog.
I ended up cycling on a busy A road to get where I wanted to be instead - despite it being much more dangerous when looked at rationally, my brain just could not take using shared use paths and getting fully stressed out about it. Fortunately now I'm able to manage my reactions better and use the shared paths again.
That's actually pretty reasonable. Your brain and body relate dogs to what happened, of course it will want to avoid them.
I had a dog rush out on me on a local tootle last night. Scared the crap out of me as it was hidden by a hedge, and it got damn close to being a fall/hitting the thing. Owner was 50m up the road and unaware. Apparently 'the dog never does that'....
I know this may sound controversial or anti-dog and doesn’t actually help, but I’m amazed that it is permitted to let dogs off of leads in public places (aside from areas that are specifically for dogs).
AFAIK over here (Sweden) it's illegal to be off the leash in most built up areas/within most city and town limits except in a dedicated area like a dog park or enclosed private garden (not sure of the exact wording, i don't have a dog).
And during the spring and summer (March to August ish) it's illegal for them to be off the leash in the countryside as well. Unless they are hunting dogs, actually on a hunt (Again, not 100% sure on wording).
No one seems to complain, except those who don't really want to look after their dog. And probably shouldn't have one.
What I would advise is , start your discussions with the dog owners in a friendly manner, if you go in claiming their dog was out of control etc etc , it is likely to make them defensive and you are then in a situation where they dig in and refuse to co operate .
Luke - get some counseling and add that to the bill you are suing them for.
Your head injury is serious and worth a lot in compensation. Many thousands into some tens of thousands.