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Hi all bit of advice please...
Purchased a bike yesterday went to have a tinker with it today and found some hefty play in the cranks , assuming it's was the BB I started checking and tightening as you would to no avail.
I was really starting to scratch my head and then from behind the chain guide I noticed what I immediately thought was a crack around the BB area.
I spoke to the guy and asked what he thought and he said he was aware of it and it's nothing to worry about and that was confirmed by yt as just where the mount meets the carbon and it's just a paint issue.
Firstly if I was aware of such a problem I would go out of my way to make it known to a potential buyer , the seller seems to think that it wasn't necessary to pass on that information which I think is wrong ?
Secondly this looks far more than a paint issue to me , I'm far from a carbon expert but what are the thoughts of the single-track folk ? And can it be repaired or do I have a dud frame.
The seller has gone completely down the lines of sold as seen which I understand to a degree but the fact that the issue was known about before sale and not passed on has left a sour taste in my mouth.
Any way sorry for the ramble but any thoughts?
Photos?
Otherwise it's fine or borked one or the other.
Feel for you, you sound ultra honest and like you I sell warts and all, however other peeps..
Post up a good photo.
Use Imgur - really easy to use.
http://imgur.com/gallery/cZ6CgZ y" alt="crack" />
Set up a free imgur account.
Once in click on your account icon top right and then on images
Add images - from computer drive.
Click on image and use the HTML copy link.
Paste this directly into your next post.
Easy once you know.
Good luck OP.
Your img link has an extra http in it so won't display.
It doesn't look good IMO. Since I can't really see the end of the line it's hard to know how significant it is but I'd be a bit upset. Fingers crossed the seller is kind...
Going to need these
Crucially, is that where the play is coming from, in the cranks? Is there movement there?
It could be just the paint but no way would I have sold a bike like that without telling the buyer, even so.
I despair at some people.
That's no sticker
Thanks for posting those Wally much appreciated no seller not playing ball at all.
I've checked bearings etc tightened cranks but alas still got the jiggle.
Apparently yt have told him the following
Cracking around the BB: This is only an optical issue. The BB housing is made of aluminium and the frame around is made of carbon fibre. When the frame flexes while riding, the paint to crack on the edge between aluminium and carbon resulting in the impression that the frame-material cracks
Can you see any movement in the crack (ooh er) when you flex the cranks?
Seller/YT may well be right but he should have told you this before buying either way.
If it's nothing to worry about, he should have let you decide on that too.
Sounds like he's chatting wham of the highest order tbh, how is big play in the cranks nothing to worry about? I guess it would be good to hear from someone who owns that bike regarding the 'optical illusion' of a frame crack.
If no one here has one then the mtbr forums have specific manufacturer subfora that can give good info.
I thought the optical illusion was funny too .... I'm not even that bothered about the crack /illusion but nor would I have bought it should I have known about it. Sellers attitude has me frustrated.
Good point any other yt owners seen or have this issue?
Most carbon bikes use captive alloy inserts at pivots, BB's, end of stays etc. Delamination is not an acceptable situation and imo is absolutely a failure in the frames integrity. Surely this would be a warranty claim if it were first owner within warranty period.
I'd be getting my money back. Its been a while since I looked at uk sales of goods but pretty sure he's now told you he omitted to inform you of a known issue.
Ask for the proof of correspondence with YT too, i.e. forward on the email from them. If he takes ages to do so it’s likely to be something he’s fabricated himself. Some people are arse hats.
Yeah I'd like my money back but he's battened down the hatches so not sure where I go from here.
Ebay?
If you picked it up in person, was it from their home or a car park exchange? Pay in cash or was it a eBay collect in person?
On carbon fibre frames the gel coat can crack around the fibre / alloy interface where the fibre flexes but the alloy doesn't. If YT say this doesn't cause issues and you resolve the loose BB it's OK
otherwise
eBay not as described reason 'undisclosed damage'
Unfortunately in a private sale the seller's only real obligation is to ensure the goods match the description provided.
On the subject of YT ISCG cracks though, a quick google suggest it's not an isolated issue and if you check the first thread below, YT's response matches the one you got from the seller verbatim.
https://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=161580&pagenum=8
https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/iscg-tab-cracked-is-the-frame-ok-to-ride/
It's not obvious this one - what YT says might just be true, the ISG mount plate looks like a separate section and the paint would easily crack between the two. Surely if you can feel a enough of a wobble with the crank installed then you would visibly see the crack open/close on eyeballing it - If the crack opens up on flexing..yes it's a crack. Or maybe its just the BB cup/crank installation that's causing the wobble?
Yep, that's what it comes down to. Is the play due to the crack. If so, utterly buggered frame.
If not, go with YT advice if seller won't refund.
Seller definitely needs to take a good look at himself though. You wouldn't just sell a frame like that and assume the buyer is fine about it after the event.
Interestingly, I just checked my carbon Capra after reading this thread. I too have a crack by the mount. It's only a small one however, not as bad as the one in the pic. I have no issues with my cranks being loose.
Are you sure it's just not the bearings that are knackered? I can't see how that crack would cause the cranks to be loose as the bearings sit in the aluminium housing.
Is it possible to install cranks the wrong way around or without spider/direct mount ring to get a good look and see if the crack moves when you apply force.
Thanks for all the help guys I'm going to take another look tomorrow in the daylight , tbf the cranks are bb30 or pf30 and I don't have loads of experience with them so I will persevere and I could possibly have missed a faulty bearing etc .... As mentioned earlier im far more upset about someone being so casual about leaving out that type of info , the bike was a good deal or would have been without this , of course the problem is should I ever want to sell it on I'm at a loss straight away because I couldn't or wouldn't hide that type of info. The sale was made on another very popular biking site no eBay involved and funnily enough it was a car park exchange however I believed it was outside their apartment but who knows ... Unfortunately I'm a very trusting guy and always believe people will do the right thing , I will definitely be more cautious from now on.
First of all, the seller fails rule 1 monumentally.
Secondly, is that an early Capra? Looks to be from the colour scheme. When I was buying mine (2016) the forums were full of tales of similar to what you've seen - IIRC the reason was given almost exactly the same as you've been given. In a lot of instances the bike was replaced under warranty, but for others the warranty was refused for the reasons you've been given. FWIW I think it then died down a bit as the bikes got more popular.
I'd be wiggling the cranks and trying to ascertain if it is 100% the crack, or the bearings in the BB. From what I read on YT threads I'd be inclined to think bearings. Fingers crossed for you.
I can't see how that would cause the wobble.
Would the cups not be threading into the bb shell aswell?
If you wiggle the cranks you'd see movement in the crack if that was the cause.
Equally you might be able to see or feel movement just by moving the tabs by hand.
Also have a look at the cranks to make sure they are not damaged (worn on the axle). Spin the bearings by hand, can you feel any movement or roughness? Wobbly cranks is common for a whole manner of reasons.
Do you have any other cranks you know are in good condition? Put them on and see if you get the same problem.
Knock out the bearing clean up the area and have a good look with a bright light.
Bb bearings would be my first port of call. They can have a fair amount of movement if they are borked.
Would the cups not be threading into the bb shell aswell?
Memory is a little hazy, but I'm pretty sure they're either pressfit , or one of those 'directly into the frame' affairs.
The jaggedness of the crack / broken edge of the paint shows that its due to movement - propagates a bit, stops, starts again. A paint crack would be smoother along the lines of the two dissimilar materials and there wouldn't be any flaking. In technical terms, it's ****ed.
How did you not see this and feel the movement when you picked it up? I think I'd have walked away from that one.
TRy and get back in touch and return it.
I agree the seller should have been more honest about that in the description, although it is visible in one of the EBay photos.
However, I also can’t see how that crack could cause cranks to wobble and doesn’t look like a structural risk. I reckon you’ll be fine OP once you have decent BB bearings. I’d be annoyed though.
If the cranks are moving, it’s not that crack. Sort out the bb30 abomination first and then see if there is any evidence of crack having an effect. The Bb30 on my son’s caad8 makes a dreadful cracking noise at times.
I would suggest this kind of BB - The screw in type.
I have one and it has been faultless. But do check the link is to the exact one you need by another. Don't just go on my word that that will fit, I have not done a proper search of your frame, just a PF30 quick google.
thanks guys think the wobble is the bb , im going to sell the frame as spares or repairs its probably of some use to some one i guess. or maybe not lol.
it is what is is but just make me a bit more paranoid in the future.
i didnt really give it the once over, over the years most used bikes have needed a bit of something doing to them, that comes with the territory, definitely repeating myself but its just the sellers failure to divulge that is my issue. I got it at a good price and drove 3 hours to get it and the guy seemed knowledgeable and friendly. i completely accept my part in this and should have looked harder, but we live and learn.
What size is it out of interest?
supposed to be a large but the accuracy of that information is debatable lol
That isn’t a crack in the carbon only the paint where the carbon and alloy meet and is more poor design than catastrophic imminent failure.
You mention tightening the cranks but you’ve made no mention of a preload adjuster. Last 3 bikes have had a preloader for BB30 (SRAM & Quarq) so assume you should have one. This is how I’ve removed play in the BB.