[Closed] Cracked 2012 s works Enduro frame.

[img] [/img]

Pics?

so i just want to give people advise,do not buy a [s]specialized [/s]secondhand [s]carbon[/s] frame as you will have no back up at all.

Carbon can be repaired very successfully

Which companies do offer warranty on second hand frames?

Nicolai?

Turner.. From the website
.
Turner will repair or replace any Turner frame, Only if we determine it to be defective due to materials and /or workmanship. This 2 year warranty applies to the frameset Only (not including suspension components), ridden under normal conditions, properly maintained and is transferable to subsequent owners with original sales receipt.
Turner Bikes will make replacement parts available at a minimum charge in the event of a crash or other non- warranty situation. This replacement policy is good for all frames including those who have purchased their frames new or used.
.
And even when it's out of warranty if they can help they will..

I've been considering buying a second hand Santa Cruz carbon frame the last day or so and have decided not to for this very reason.

Don't Turner do transferable warrenties as well?

Edit: To slow on the Turner bit.

Try Specialized in the US

mikewsmith - Member

so i just want to give people advise,do not buy a specialized secondhand carbon frame as you will have no back up at all.

Correct.
That is why stuff loses 50% of it's value when it's bought in a shop.
Specialized have an exceptional reputation for warranty, they were close to sorting my 04 enduro at 6 years old but had run out of parts by then (5 year frame warranty)

And if you were buying one of those "as new" 2nd hand frames from the classifieds at only a few quid off RRP and somebody tried to point this out they would get a ban.

Which companies do offer warranty on second hand frames?

Yes, Nicolai warranty the frame for five years regardless of the owner so the warranty is transferable.

I think Liteville also do this.

+1 on the Turner warranty.
🙂
Purchased a 2009 DW 5spot off here, 2 years old, the seattube came away from the bottom bracket after another year, mailed Turner with pics, now the owner of a 2011 warranty replacement frame.

the uk arm has no connection with this frame so thinking you might have any redress with is off the mark to be fair.

try spesh USA, but ask for their help. they might sort you with a deal.
other wise get a carbon repair.

did you ask spesk UK about buying a replacemnet front?

This original owner warranty crap really gets on my wick tbh, it just comes across as an excuse to dodge their obligations, presumably part of the purchase price is for the warranty so if you've paid for it it's yours to pass along with the frame.
****y business practice IMO, they should stand by their products if they believe they're good enough...
I'd like to see a car manufacturer try that on,
.
Edit, OP try these for a repair, were recommended to me by Scott uk for a repair to a scale frame, they reckoned they were the best around

HQ Fibre Products

Tel: 01603 713972

Vale Farm Workshop, Blofield Rd, Lingwood, Norwich, Norfolk NR13 4AJ

I asked about buying a front triangle at cost but still no joy.they don't analyse in the uk,only the USA.so maybe contacting America would be better.ill upload pics when I get the frame back,it's being stripped at the min and I'm prob gonna send it to a company called carbonology who have a good rep,they say it will be stronger that original.

And if you were buying one of those "as new" 2nd hand frames from the classifieds at only a few quid off RRP and somebody tried to point this out they would get a ban.

Yes but we are all grown ups who can google stuff ourselves. This ain't the classifieds it's a crashed my bike it's broke and it was cheap so I got no warranty whinge.

Either get it fixed or move on.

Your first post on here too.
Why would they help you? Second hand from USA? Warranty not transferrable.
Sorry but thats the risk you take buying secondhand frames from overseas.
Thats quite a rock strike to break a spring in your pedal!

Tuner sound great.your right I was I my having a quick loop of cwmcarn. Surely the Enduro is made for more tuff trails than that?if they say they are the best around they should carry the warranty for 5 years of so...
Iv heard Santa Cruz test their carbon frames against the opposition and are a lot stronger.

2nd hand to save money
Bought from the US to save more money (or, even better, is this a model not available in the UK?)
You then damage your bargain frame, and expect a handout?

Surely the Enduro is made for more tuff trails than that?if they say they are the best around they should carry the warranty for 5 years of so...

The grade of trail means naff-all when you've cracked it off a rock. Warranty is also completely different from damage/crash replacement

Iv heard Santa Cruz test their carbon frames against the opposition and are a lot stronger.

2 year still ORIGINAL OWNER ONLY on SC Carbon (may have gone to 5 for 2013 though) most companies will bend over backwards for the original owner but not the 2nd hand market. A fault really but just the state of play.

It was a shop in the states.It couldn't of been that hard I didn't come off the bike,carbon frame vs pedal spring??come on.
I'm not asking for a free frame,wanted to buy a front tri at cost they take the frame back to analyse.and making people aware not to make the same mistake.

[i]It was a shop in the states[/i]

what do they say?

Maybe they don't want to analyze it and tellign people not to do pedal strikes isn't going to stop it happening?

It was a shop in the states.It couldn't of been that hard I didn't come off the bike,carbon frame vs pedal spring??come on.
I'm not asking for a free frame,wanted to buy a front tri at cost they take the frame back to analyse.and making people aware not to make the same mistake.

Go back to the shop? Why were they selling 2nd hand frames, waht was the deal they offered?

As with all these as the thread goes on the detail emerges.

Anything else?

If they were claiming warranty etc then talk to Spec US.

There's a very good chap on here called cynic-al who does high quality carbon repairs, often with a rather inventive utilisation of cutlery.

Talked to the shop and they said the same as my local spec dealer,warranty crash rep only orig owner.it was a built up bike,paid £2800 plus taxes.
Mikewsmith I'm not moaning here...just letting people know where they would stand in my situ.
I'm ok with getting frame fixed so no worries.

i haz used cynic-al carbonoriumemporium for all my carbonz.

5 stars!

Which companies do offer warranty on second hand frames?

Ibis do, if the break is a manufacturing defect. Otherwise they'll offer a cheap crash replacement. Top company!

Most bike companies aren't making massive amounts of money, it's not like they're making super normal profits. Offering to extend warranties to people other than the original owner would likely bankrupt many companies. If you don't like it, don't buy second hand or buy something that does have a transferable warranty.

I'm always surprised that Nicolais don't command better second hand prices even though they do offer transferable warranties. It's almost as if people don't see the value of that feature (unless of course you happen to need it).

they didnt even want the frame back to analyse to prevent a potentially nasty accident occurring again

Sorry but new member in alarmist warning thread just sounds like a moan or attempt to get something from [whatever company disputing with]

In the end good luck doing warranty from something bought new overseas.

Sorry to hear what happened.

Liteville:
On all mountain-bike frames delivered from 1. of September 2007, Liteville now gives 10 years (5+5) warranty on all material and manufacturing defects. A potentially necessary exchange for a new frame or frame component occurs free of charge within the first 5 years warranty period, in the 5 -10th year, a 50% discount on the respective current retail price is offered. For the installed rear shock, the warranty of the respective manufacturer is valid. For the Liteville 101 4X frame we give 3+7 years warranty.

The Warranty is valid for all Liteville owners, not only for the first owner, and permits DH and race usage. Like this even most of the second-hand buyers will receive a frame with original factory warranty!

Only condition: All components are to be installed and used as outlined in the owner’s manual.

In addition, Liteville will make a special offer to every Liteville-owner even for misuse or damage due to crash influences (“Bike on roof rack against garage wall”), direct through Liteville.

With Liteville products you are in good hands, even after you have bought the goods.

Sorry to hear your news.

Often Specialized will still offer a deal on a replacement frame etc but their hands are tied on 2012 carbon bikes as they never actually sold them (I think?).

I got a warranty 2012 carbon enduro and they only had one other in stock at the time.

Must have been a hell of an unlucky strike or a defect as I have already given my bash ring a few massive hits on the carbon frame. Maybe the previous owner had put some serious hurt on it before which was not visable. Who knows. Good but painful lesson on buying 2nd hand. Just had a 2nd hand frame crack and die a few weeks ago so know how it feels. 🙁

Too slow with my comment on Liteville, +1 on this.

So out of curiosity, what's a rough cost to repair a carbon frame?

What size is it? I may be interested

Sorry but new member in alarmist warning thread just sounds like a moan or attempt to get something from [whatever company disputing with]

Im not suprised. In the UK you have no legal warranty claim against the manufacturer of the product, even if it is only 1 day old and has a 10 year warranty. UK law states that the warranty the customer has is with the retailer who sold you the item. This is different to most other countries and certainly the USA.

If a shop says it has to send something back to the manufacturer before making a decision all they are actually doing is finding out if they can make a claim on the manufacturer to pass on thier liability. Legally it has no influence on your claim against the retailer. I know thats not what happens in reality but that is how the law is written

I watched a friend pedal strike a rock, and continue his run happily. A few runs later he noticed a fairly big crack in the seat tube of his Cove Hustler. A pedal strike hard enough to break a pedal will have transferred a large point load on the frame that it was not designed to cope with. Manufactures are faced with a balance between weight and longevity, a compromise always has to be made.

Your frame has failed as the result of a crash.

Warranty or Guarantee, there's a difference. I'd of thought that Spesh would at least do a crash replacement for you.

Really sucky news there!
Thats the biggest prob with 2nd hand market.
Can't really say CF is the best secondhand bike material either due to its limited lifespan.

Give me a mail (in profile) if you want to get rid of it.

Cheers
Scar

FWIW, if you set aside the secondhand/original owner, spesh UK do have an excellent reputation of warrantying frames to original owners, even on really old ones. I've read a few bad stories about stuff failing (07/08 alloy nippled DT wheel builds and all those epic shocks, anyone? 😆 ) but loads of good stories about the warranty/backup on this forum over the years.

Can't really say CF is the best secondhand bike material either due to its limited lifespan.

What is the lifespan of Carbon Fiber? Aluminium has a limited lifespan as well you know.

Can't really say CF is the best secondhand bike material either due to its limited lifespan.

Please, do go on.

It's not a finite number, but the material composition deteriorates over time. The resin epoxy in carbon fiber will go stiff and crack or fatigue a lot faster than any metal. Even with some frames have carbon nano tubes as a resin filler you're always face the fact that no existing resin epoxy can withstand UV and natural deterioration inherit to all resin products. The surface of carbon fiber is very soft and resin will crack when bump by strong forces. Eventually all resin epoxy based reinforce materials(fiber glass and carbon fiber) will warp.

Lots of riding = lots of microfractures within the epoxy carbon interfaces. The majority of these won't cause a problem, but in the high stress areas, or a sudden off angle impact they can propogate and cause either just additional flex (due to them not reaching the surface), or complete cracks through the material as in the OP's case.

This is the reason that Specialized built in electrodes to the original testing/pre-prod/racing layup carbon demo8/9 frames. When the material was first built they all connected, but as time progressed microfractures formed and broke the electrode connections. They set a threshold of number of connections to break before an in-built audible beeper sounded.
Once the beeper sounded they replaced them, and took the fatigued frames back to xray and analyse.
Imagine the publicity of a full frame failure in public!

Scar

Just to add...
I do know that which ever material you use it will eventually fail if stressed repeatedly.
It's just CF frames will show no visible signs of this until complete failure (would you really know if the frame was flexing more that it did when it came off the shop floor?), so you could easily buy a frame thats starting to fail.

Scar

I had cause to use Specialized's warranty, I noticed that the frame was cracking around the bottom bracket, this was on my 2004 FSR.

[img] [/img]

They replaced it with a nice shiny new 2008 FSR Expert frame which I built up to this.

[img] [/img]

I'd of thought that Spesh would at least do a crash replacement for you.

They more than likely would if the frame was bought in the UK. But considering the OP deliberately bi-passed them then why should they. They have no obligation too.

Customer Support/warranty/service etc is built into the price. If you don't pay it don't expect to receive it.

Singlespeed_Shep - Member

I'd of thought that Spesh would at least do a crash replacement for you.

They more than likely would if the frame was bought in the UK. But considering the OP deliberately bi-passed them then why should they. They have no obligation too.

Customer Support/warranty/service etc is built into the price. If you don't pay it don't expect to receive it.

It would cost them nothing as they charge 40% of the RRP and they get a reputation for "Good sevice"
I believe the frames they offer as crash replacement are "Gash" ones they have lying around.
Mine was a crash replacement and it came without the original shock [brain] but did have a Triad with it.

[i]It would cost them nothing[/i]

It's not a frame they ever imported to the UK though so they won't just have one lying around.

Hello,

I would just like to clarify some points here.

Mr Scar has made some points, here however I would like to add some detail as these points could be misunderstood. I'm not intending to have a pop at you Mr Scar, just filing in details.

Can't really say CF is the best secondhand bike material either due to its limited lifespan.

This is a slightly ambiguous statement. In essence everything has a limited life span. It will depend on the application and various external factors. Aluminium and also steel could also be described as having limited life spans. So we must be clear bout this.

"It's not a finite number, but the material composition deteriorates over time. The resin epoxy in carbon fiber will go stiff and crack or fatigue a lot faster than any metal."

Metals too will deteriorate over time. The statement that CF will go stiff and crack faster then any metal is simply does not make sense. One of the biggest advantages of CF composites is that they have longer fatigue life in comparison to metals.

By saying that they go hard and crack you imply that there is some deterioration. Of course plastics can deteriorate, however almost all plastics today have UV inhibitors.

Even with some frames have carbon nano tubes as a resin filler you're always face the fact that no existing resin epoxy can withstand UV and natural deterioration inherit to all resin products.

Mentioning nano tubes in the same sentence as UV and "natural degradation" implies that nano fillers are there to prevent these from happening. Nano tubes are "functional fillers" their use is aimed at improving mechanical performance, rather than environmental performance.

The surface of carbon fiber is very soft and resin will crack when bump by strong forces. Eventually all resin epoxy based reinforce materials(fiber glass and carbon fiber) will warp.

Not sure what is meant here, carbon fibre is soft or the composite surface is soft. nevertheless, this statement seems to contradict the previous which refers to hardening. Soft materials are typically more resistant to cracking (after impact) than those which are hard.

Moreover, I would like to make clear that UV or environmental issues are not a problem for composite materials. Do you think that modern aircraft would have significant amounts of primary structure made from composites if they were going to degrade in UV and fail ? not really. Aero companies have researched these materials for decades. Testing often spans decades. I worked for one company which continues its environmental assessment of composites today. About 50 years ago they started by putting test specimens round the world in extreme weather environmental. Every year coupons have been tested and compared with the control-no significant degradation of these has occurred.

Lots of riding = lots of microfractures within the epoxy carbon interfaces.

It is not clear what you are saying here. Never the less it implies that riding time is proportional to some kind of internal defect creation. Again this is not a good statement.

The majority of these won't cause a problem, but in the high stress areas, or a sudden off angle impact they can propogate and cause either just additional flex (due to them not reaching the surface), or complete cracks through the material as in the OP's case.

Also an unclear statement, not entirely sure what is supposed to reach the surface. I think you mean these cracks? I think you mean that if you hit the composite real hard it might crack.

It would cost them nothing as they charge 40% of the RRP

they get a reputation for "Good sevice"

Depends, if i was a specialized Uk retailer, I'd be a bit miffed if they kept honoring warranties for people who buy from outside the UK.

It's not a finite number, but the material composition deteriorates over time

This makes no sense. If something can be observed deteriorating over time then surely there must a number of measure.

Is the time a million years? Or 1 year? Do you have some data?

Also, what is an 'off angle impact' - do carbon frames have a preferred on angle impact angle?

You take your chances when you but SH and it must have been a very hard strike to bust a pedal.

If you have the frame repaired take into account that the bike has a low BB in the first place and the nature of the suspension tends to keep it even lower. When I rode a 2011 enduro the shock blew through too fast for my liking even with 20% sag. Combination of all three meant I had to be really careful to avoid pedal strikes and that's why I decided against getting one.

I'm wondering why they've started making planes out of a short life material.

Just to make it clear again it was the spring in the pedal,and the pedals were 9 years old and had a fair bit of use.about the shock going through the stroke even with 20% sag,I found that from the moment I rode the bike and was going to send the shock to push to try and solve that problem.2 weeks to late I suppose :/.
Might try a ibis hd or intense carbine.( new ) 🙂

grum - Member

Which companies do offer warranty on second hand frames?

Cotic don't exactly offer warranty, but they've looked after me better than any company I've actually had a warranty with.

Buyer beware with Specialized. OP although you bought it from a different market where the UK distributor wasnt even involved/supplied that frame of yours. Why should they take a hit for you? (Selling you a reduced price replacement impacts on their warranty-stocked available frames).

"Hello, is that Specialized UK?"

"Yes, how can I help?"

"I've bought this bike secondhand from the states to save some money. I don't know anything about it's history, but I got it for a good price. Trouble Is the frame's broken and it's too much hassle to get it sorted by Specialized US, and they wouldn't have any obligation to help me anyway. So would you be good enough to give me a new frame at cost price, even though I haven't paid anything for any sort of warranty from you?"

Bike Scene are advertising 2013 frames for £3000. 😉

Not a good thread to mention my Whyte E-120 frame for sale then? and yes, i'd be looking to get another carbon frame to replace it 🙂

"Hello, is that Specialized UK?"

"Yes, how can I help?"

"I've bought this bike secondhand from the states to save some money. I don't know anything about it's history, but I got it for a good price. Trouble Is the frame's broken and it's too much hassle to get it sorted by Specialized US, and they wouldn't have any obligation to help me anyway. So would you be good enough to give me a new frame at cost price, even though I haven't paid anything for any sort of warranty from you?"

True. Imagine buying a Ford Taurus, shipping it over and demanding Ford UK sort it for you?