[Closed] Crack inside bottom bracket - options ??

If bought brand new I’d not accept that, replacement or refund.

A new, repaired frame? Bugger that

If it was recently bought I wouldn't be happy but as it was likely bought years ago and has sat unused there's little you can do. I'd just ride it once it's fixed as repaired frames don't exactly have great resale value.

So a new frame, from liteville, was welded to cover a crack?

I’d be calling them to have the bike collected at their expense and refunded, plus labour to build it etc: that’s terrible and fraudulent too I’d imagine.

I bought it brand new June 2020 but I think it is a 2016 model

Did you see the external weld on the BB shell when you bought it? Or even subsequently?

Those 301 bottom bracket shells are machined in two sections and welded together anyway, so is it not just how it is?
I’ve never noticed what mine looks like on the inside, tbh, but I wouldn’t imagine that it’s welded on the inside as well as the outside. Think of every frame-BB joint, they’re only welded on the outside?

Post a photo, if only to satisfy my curiosity...

The external weld has been anodised and looks fine ,I didn't look at it until I shone a torch inside the bb and saw what I saw

I haven't figured out how to post a pic on here - my computer skills are pretty shite hence why I lay concrete floors for a living

The fact that Liteville acknowledge a fault after they have had the pics of the inside of the bb surely means something

If there’s no evidence of cracking externally then what leads you to believe that the source of the creaking lies there?
I can’t understand why Liteville say that there’s a fault - unless they actually are normally welded both internally and externally, although I can’t really see why this should be the case.
I’m almost tempted to pull the BB out of mine and check....

I can’t help but smile at the “a brand new frame, welded to fix a crack?” comments, btw....

I also run a Liteville H-3 might take out the bb and see what that looks like assuming they are built the same as the 301 ??

Well Andy-R if you do could you let me know what it looks like ?

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toomuchtime
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I also run a Liteville H-3 might take out the bb and see what that looks like assuming they are built the same as the 301 ??

If there’s a weld line running through the centre of the BB shell, then yes it is.
I might have a look at mine but it won’t be until Sunday at the earliest.

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You bought it less than a year ago, in covid. I’d ask for a new frame.

Spooky_b329 sorry I don't understand Russian - I'm assuming that is Russian you are speaking ??

[img] [/img]

This is a day of days !!!

Right - what you’re seeing in that photo is weld penetration right through to the inside of the shell from the external weld. To me, that looks about perfect. There is no way that is going to be the source of any creaking and, to be honest, I can’t understand what LV are on about when they say “they’ll repair it”?

Even if they can prep and weld that small area that you can see, then that will both damage the anodising and, more significantly, compromise the heat treatment in that area.

Having studied (briefly) the outside of my 301 BB shell there is no way that it would be possible to fully weld it internally anyway - especially the area that forms the suspension pivot - maybe the most highly-stressed area?. There’d be no means of getting a tig torch into there, never mind manipulating the filler rod.
The BB shell is probably welded as a sub-assembly before being incorporated into the main frame assy and so not only will it be welded around all its periphery but then a considerable part of it will, in effect, be reinforced by the down tube and seat tube being welded onto it and bridging the joint line.

I’d not worry about the integrity of the frame and would look elsewhere for the source of creaking. I will, however, strip mine as soon as I get a chance, have a skeet in there and take a photo or two, even if it proves me wrong.....

Is it just me or are those welds cracked?

Unless you can actually see a crack on the outside of that welded joint with thickness and the amount of weld penetration I would be pretty sure that it's not going to ever be an area of concern.

sorry I don’t understand Russian – I’m assuming that is Russian you are speaking ??

Congrats on learning Russian in 10 minutes 🙂

Is it just me or are those welds cracked?

If you are looking at the line on the inside of the weld penetration then that is just where the back side of the material has deformed, the weld there does not require full penetration due to the thickness of the parts being joined therefore the parent metal is still going to be visible on the back.

That lump of weld, down to the right that's standing proud of the interior of the BB shell ... It's not rubbing on something like the crank axle or the inboard end of a BB cup as the frame/axle flexes is it?

I was gonna say thanks in Russia spooky_b329 but way beyond my pay grade - well the STW massive may have come to the rescue and saved me £120
I might carry on looking for the creak as it seems the weld is good
The dealer did say he's never sent a frame back in the 9 years he's been at it so I'm assuming we are good

Garage-dweller good call I'll look into that

Could still be the BB creaking, put it back in 🙂 And of course, creaks amplify through the frame, it could be anything...thru axles, pedals, crank pinch bolts etc.

Have you done the 'pedal standing up, pedal one footed, pedal no handed' etc to try and narrow it down?

I might carry on looking for the creak as it seems the weld is good

It seems Liteville disagree. I assume these are the same photos they saw?

I’m confused. If Liteville reckons it’s a fault then it can’t be right.
You could try running some heavy oil in to that split and see if that quietens things

It seems Liteville disagree. I assume these are the same photos they saw?

As I said before, for the life of me I can’t see what Liteville think could be wrong and, apart from swapping the frame (which you’d think was pretty unlikely - brand new Mk15 anyone?) I can’t see what they’d do either.
That BB shell is a pretty hefty chunk of aluminium and we have evidence of weld penetration, because we can actually see it on the inside.

As it’s going to be a crap day tomorrow (weather wise) I’ll pull the cranks and one BB cup on mine, have a look around inside and take a photo or two. Ok, mine isn’t a Mk 12 but a well abused (sorry, used) Mk10 - however I don’t think much changed in the BB shell design in that time.

Speaking of abuse I will say one thing - I have two Mk10’s and I’m pretty sure that both frames will outlive me, given the chance.
I may be old, I may look after my bikes but I certainly don’t wrap them up in cotton wool - I’ve never known anyone have any issues with any Liteville frame and they get some pretty harsh use.

I’ll report back, anyway!

Never had issues with my mk11

Andy-R I'm with you all the way my previous mk10 was awesome and the H-3 I ride is the best hardtail I've had by a long way so it's gonna be a day tomorrow of messing about with the mk12

“If Liteville reckons it’s a fault then it can’t be right.”

I imagine a helpful customer service person has keenly answered an email before checking with an engineering person (which is even more likely if they’re mostly working remotely due to Covid). Like 99%+ of brands, they don’t make the bikes anyway, so I’m not sure how they’d weld it unless they do all their prototyping locally.

I'd ask the factory what they have seen to make them think it's in need of repair.

Something else to think about is how the original creak when riding came about.

I recently rode my freshly built bike and the cranks/btm bracket area let out a typical old school knackered bottom bracket creak on every down stroke. It got worse with power so I assumed it was for sure coming from the btm bkt or crank area.

However I then stood up and cranked the pedals. Nothing.
Turned out to be the saddle rails creaking in the post mount.

After 30+ yrs messing with bike, I was 99% certain that sound came from the bottom bracket! (before I stood up)

I've built the bike up without the cranks but a BB in put a iron bar through the BB and stood on the bar even with force there's no creak as soon as I put the cranks in the creak is back !!!
Tried XT and 2 sets of SLX cranks and the same result
Think I'm going back to the Knolly at this rate !!

The chainring bolts are greased ,the pinch bolts are , the crank is ,the pedals are I've nothing left to grease

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Top image is looking forwards, bottom image rearwards.

No complete weld around the joint line (as expected) and what you see are little more than assembly tacks, given that there’s no prep.
The rear one is basically just an extended tack, done while there was still access before the down tube and seat tube were attached.
I can’t compare with my other Mk10, as that’s in Greece, but I suspect it’ll be just the same.

As far as LIteville’s response goes, I tend to agree with chiefgrooveguru (if only because we bass players have to stick together....) that it’s a standard customer service type reply.
There’s no way that they can change weld specs on an already completed and heat-treated frame anyway - all they could do is replace it but I can’t see why they’d consider doing that?

Hope this helps a bit anyway...

I assume you’ve widened the search to seatpost? Or do you get creak with cranks fitted and stressed in a workstand?

Do cranks creak with no chain?
Tried the cranks on a different bike?

Rear axle?
Suspension pivot?

Cranks I have tried on different bikes but only creak on the Liteville ,I've swapped to the Knolly for a while give me time to calm down a bit

Just to say.
warranty if 10 years. if it needs fixing ten they will sort it.

Are you sure its the cranks. my mk10 would creak if the rear shock bolt wasn't to specification. i.e it needed 12nm if it was 14nm tight then it creaked and sounded like it came from the headset. I replaced all bearings trying to find it!