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.. amazed how good it is. XT M8000 in this case.
What's surprised me is how much better it works aside from the gear range. I suppose that's what happens with 11 years of development. Coming from XTR 970 it's incredibly snappy in use. I think there's a few reasons why:
- The shifter includes thumbshifter style clicks as well as the ratchet and pawl in older shifters, which makes it feel really snappy as by the time you've given enough pressure to overcome the click you've already got enough pressure to move the cable.
- The change in angle on the cable entry point means there's far less of a cable loop
- There's now only one pivot to extend instead of two - the top mount is fixed, so your thumb doesn't have to move them both.
- They've taken the float out of the top jockey wheel decades after patenting it.
Somehow it also feels really smooth in pedalling. Not sure why. The NW chanring that was on it before felt quite rough with a 9sp chain, but is buttery smooth with 11sp. But the whole thing seems just so nice to pedal, I can't quite explain it. Anyone else notice this?
Notice it?
Most of us can't even remember what it was like to ride on 11 speed 😉
11 peed is great and 12 speed is uneccesary . shifting is fantastic but cassette weight and mech size iz stupidz. there i said it!
Welcome brother molgrips!
Its also getting rather expensive, even the basic OEM Sram 11 speed rear mech on my bike is about £55.
XT is £50 for the mech and £33 for the shifter. I probably paid nearly double that for XTR 11 years ago and it's nowhere near as good.
11 peed is great and 12 speed is uneccesary
Perhaps, on my adventure bike I need more range than 1x11 offers, but I'd probably go 2x11 rather than 1x12.
Maybe it’s partly because all your 11 year old XTR M970 stuff is.... 11years old. Whereas the new11speed stuff is,.. new.... all crisp and fresh and springy clicky.
also those years of minor improvements probably add up to a more noticeable improvement if you’re coming from using M970.
Perhaps, on my adventure bike I need more range than 1×11 offers, but I’d probably go 2×11 rather than 1×12.
Wait until you have a chance to try the new side-swing front mech. It's a much nicer/easier movement that the previous versions - XTR included.
Maybe it’s partly because all your 11 year old XTR M970 stuff is…. 11years old.
Well the chain, cassette, chainring and jockey wheels and cables were new and the rest is in perfect nick. I had an identical groupset on the XC race bike which did a fraction of the miles as the other set and both old sets felt identical, which is testament to its durability. But there's clearly a big difference in the way it feels, mostly down to the extra clicks in the shifter I think. And the lack of top pivot means it's more rigid too by design.
Wait until you have a chance to try the new side-swing front mech
It's certainly got me planning the upgrade to 2x11 on the Salsa purely for better performance.
Maybe it’s partly because all your 11 year old XTR M970 stuff is…. 11years old. Whereas the new11speed stuff is,.. new…. all crisp and fresh and springy clicky.
This. At least in part.
/\ just dont try and back peddle !!
i like the XT m8000 too, although i had the SLX/XT 10 speed which felt decent, i upgraded to 11 speed for the extra gearing by getting a bigger chainring that the 11t-46T cassette brings,
if i was running a double chainset then 11 speed (22 speed) may not offer that much more..
I also recently went from a 3x 9pd XTR shifter / XT rear mech to 1x11.
my experiences are a little different.. mainly because of where I ride and SRAM being in the mix
- as it was a bit harsh on some climbs I dropped from a 32T to a 28T for a while, then to 30T (due to availability couldnt go 30T right away) BUT off-road i got on with 28T really really well, didn't even hit the limit when hitting 30mph on fast grass descents. (and set a couple PBs).
- using it on flat ground /tarmac / river paths i qiuckly ran out of gears (this is rare, my car was in a local garage)
- as i also switched to SRAM NX, i noticed the lack of index finger shifting / or the switch to double thumb shifting. didnt like it, but got used to it quickly.
- the SRAM NX downshifts (easy->harder gear) slowly.. so i'm thinkin of getting an 11sp XTR shifter, and a XT mech
so outcomes
1) will probably go xtr/xt as mentioned at some point
2) i will be paying attention to which gears i spend most time in on the flat and when pedalling singletrack and adjust between 28T and 30T based on that as I've already proved that off-road either is fine for open grass descents (and nothing I ride is faster). also in the mix is the fact that until now i was running 27.5+ on 2.8s and i now also have a 29er wheelset (2.5 front, 2.4 rear) and the lighter/slightly larger wheels may have an impact on things too.(both wheelsets have their own cassette, not same brand, but they have same size casette - 11-42).this is purely to maintain a good chainline.
3) as can be read between the lines, combo of cassette / chainring is important and depends on what you ride
XTR /XT is certainly VFM (cheaper) than SRAM,
depending on bike, where you live you can cover the top and bottom of the gear range fairly well
the GX 11 speed shifter and derailleur are great, its annoying that you can pickup an XT derailleur and shifter for the same money £80
I'm running sunrace 11-46t MX8 cassettes which i actually prefer to the XT cassettes. smoother transition and not the silly step down to the big 46T granny cog .. for the same money
yup VFM indeed!
no issues with sunrace cassettes.. one of my two 11-42 cassette came with my bike - the other is also sunrace too I think, but in black (came with the secondhand 29er 148 boost wheelset I picked up)
my main "problem" is stupid fsa (cannondale hollowgram) chainring which is either more expensive (£50) to get quick or £20 and slow to get.. i do now have a 28, 30 and a 32 though. as it was 25 quid for the tool to swap rings and i didnt have a 42nm torque wrench..). not sure what the best solution to have a wide choice of narrow-wide chainrings is (outside changing cranks)
not sure what the best solution to have a wide choice of narrow-wide chainrings is (outside changing cranks)
RaceFace direct mount cranks. The chainrings fix/unmount with a standard Shimano cassette tool. I prefer oval chainrings and you can't go smaller than 30T with those on 104BCD spiders whereas I've a 26T oval on my fat bike.
Conversely, I think M8000 XT is a load of shite. I've been running 1x for years, but before that it was 3x9, 2x9 then 2x10 before jumping on the 1x10 bandwagon in 2011. I thought the 9 speed stuff I tried was pretty good (pretty much everything from deore through to XTR, Sram not included as 9-speed Sram always seemed to fall apart very quickly). 10 speed was great. I remember trying the first 2x10 Sram X9 groupset and it felt ace and I still think 10-speed XTR is one of the smoothest, most reliable groupsets ever, would be ace with one of the SunRace 11-46 cassettes you can get nowadays.
But 11 speed... I have yet to ride any 11 speed groupset that I would consider good. SLX, XT, XX1, GX, X1, from my own experience it was all pretty substandard. Sram just felt cheap and nasty and bought out before it was really ready and was basically beta tested by the general public and Shimano tried to make their kit feel like Sram and failed miserably. It was also at this point Shimano went from having best brakes on the market to ones I'd be hesitant to recommend if you wanted anything above Deore level.
I've been running Eagle for over 2 years now and its the benchmark. My X01 has been pretty much faultless (recent top jockey wheel explosion aside) and I've just got GX Eagle on my Soul and am liking it. The GX does seem have the fastest stretching cables in existance but side from that I'm impressed so far. Be keen to see what XTR 12 speed rides like, hopefully Shimano have got their act together again, because every once in a while they just seem to loose it and their kit goes from being some of the best to distinctly average, at best.
Glad you are looking the 1x.
Are you running the clutch on? My son is running shim 1x 11 but with a sunrace 11-50 cassette. All is good but with the clutch on the shifting is very heavy! My GX 11SPD and now GX Eagle shifts so much lighter...
Anyway, yeah, 1x is "the future".... For many riders anyway. 😏
I can't be the only one who sees very thread molgrips starts in the bike forum like peering through the window into the fancy dress shop from a Mr Ben cartoon
You might be?
Are you running the clutch on?
I started another thread about this. In short, the clutch was stiffer than spec (measured with torque) so I took it apart and greased it up, now it's within spec at the low end when on, and it's much lighter but still reduces chain slap.
Conversely, I think M8000 XT is a load of shite.
It's possible yours was faulty? I honestly could not find any fault at all with this, and I've been riding 25 years so I'm no newbie.
Re gear range, yes it is narrower than 2 or 3x. I'm on 11-42 on a 29er with a 30T which I'd originally got to help with 1x9. It's meant to be an XC race bike but it gets used for general local woodsy riding where the terrain is steep, so I would rather have 46T. This cassette will go on the Patriot when I get round to it which really needs low gears but is 26 so 30/42 should be ok there. I think 32/46 will be ok on the XC bike - I do spin out on road descents but I don't really care about those, they don't tend to come up in XC races.
It's interesting (to me) though that with 1x I find myself using all the sprockets, whereas with 3x I rarely used the small three, and almost never 42/11. I wonder if this will spread the wear and prolong the cassette's life.
^^ Re the last point, I suppose it's very rider and terrain specific but if you are using the whole cassette that can only be a good thing.
Conversely, I think M8000 XT is a load of shite.
It’s possible yours was faulty?
My X01 has been pretty much faultless (recent top jockey wheel explosion aside)
In my book jockey wheel explosions are what I call "a load of shite" and "faulty". And there's a whole thread about that on here.
XT M8000 "just works"
My XT 3x stuff works great, as does the newer SRAM 2x10 I have. Not gone 11 or 12 yet. So long as cables are new and everything is maintained. PS my old XT is on Tacx jockies - no float.
The exploding jockey wheel issue is on the GX Eagle to my knowledge?
Rectified by the new jockeys having a lip on them to stop the chain jamming up in the cage.
I bought the new jockeys to put in my GX Eagle mech. New ones should have them as standard.
I’m a huge X01 fan. It’s expensive is the only problem with it in my view. GX with an upmarket shifter is my next preferred option.
I did quite like Shimano 10sp and used it interchangeably with SRAM 10, but my experience of M8000 wasn’t good. In fact, I gave the cassette, mech and shifter away. I disliked the cassette intensely. The mech and shifter were ok but didn’t suit my ergonomics and I disliked the ispec results (although I love MMX - it is far more flexible about where things can be). To be fair, I have the same problems I had with ispec now I’m running SRAM shifting and Magura brakes. I’ve given up and gone back to discrete mounts.
I’m not sure I agree that SRAM used the public to beta 11sp although from what I read that and an overearly launch at least for GX appears to be what they did with Eagle. My impression of Shimano’s 11sp MTB offering is that they didn’t really try to make 1x11 work and simply launched something that just about functioned - and really hoped everyone would buy di2 with synchro front shifting instead...
I disliked the cassette intensely.
How the hell do you dislike a cassette?
they didn’t really try to make 1×11 work
But it does. Perfectly. I push the lever, solid little click, and it's changed gear instantly. What else can you ask for?
I can’t be the only one who sees very thread molgrips starts in the bike forum like peering through the window into the fancy dress shop from a Mr Ben cartoon
Something like that, yes. While everything you post seems to be a desperate cry for attention?
It's been a while since I rode 11spd, but my XX1 setup was literally, bombproof, never needed adjusting & lifespan on the cassette was bordering on ridiculous. probably the best groupset i've ever used. I've only ridden a couple of bikes with the Shimano 11spd (XT & XTR), and other than being suitably heavier, they never shifted as well IMO.
really hoped everyone would buy di2 with synchro front shifting instead…
Which is why they also introduced side-swing mechanical front mechs?
Two bikes (Solaris & fat bike) with Shimano XT 1x10, FS (Spearfish) with Shimano XT 1x11. All have Sunrace 11-42 cassettes, just changed the Solaris from XT with TRex extender cog. All have been fine just needing the occasional cable tension adjustment.
I built up the three myself, previous bikes had been Shimano so I went with what I knew. Looking at the really wide range cassettes like the 10-50T there's some big ratio jumps in there simply to get the range - not having ridden with them I don't know if it's a real world problem.
X01/XX1 was my favourite up until recently, although it could be rather susceptible to lazy downshifts due to dirt or wear.
Slx/xt is meh, it works but doesn’t feel any better than a deore 10 speed.
105 on a gravel bike, that totally over performs in 2x11 mode, i’ve never had any issues or lost chains despite putting it through stuff it had no right to survive.
Currently in love with 2x11 XTR di2. Best of both worlds using syncro shift. One lever and massive range. Perfect
I'm not sure you can compare X01 to XT though. It's over THREE TIMES the cost.
SRAM high end pricing is an utter pisstake, so for that reason, I'm out.
I think GX is better than XT which at RRP is mostly comparable.
For the most part, I am a big fan of my XT 1x11
But - does anyone else have an issue in really filthy thick mud of chain suck on the chain ring?
This isn't a wear issue either as has been doing it from day 1. For the rest of the year it is superb.
Not been a problem for me. Could be different mud though.
mud?
not cleaned any of my bikes since March.
not had chain suck either.
saying that it did drizzle the other day.
Just built a bike up with a 1x11 xt groupset and it's superb, now only got to get to grips with flat pedals after 10 years of clips.
I think GX is better than XT
How so?
Prefer SRAM shifters, wider range cassette, lighter & shifts better 🙂
I'd argue based on my experience with XX1 & X01 cassettes the steel GX cassette will outlast the XT one multiple times over, too.
GX vs M8000 - do you have weights to compare?
11 peed is great and 12 speed is uneccesary
8 speed is great, 9 speed is unnecessary.
I can verify that 9 is not enough for steep mtbing if you want to have a ride at anything other than max effort 🙂
im loving my GX eagle most of the time. The bit Im not lovng is that it seems to need lots of tweaking to keep it running properly. I didnt have this problem at first but having destroyed the mech and replaced it the newer one does seem more sensitive.
@Chrismac there are 2 versions of the GX mech, the 2nd being easier to set up and less fickle generally. Is it possible you had a Mk2, bust it and it was replaced with a Mk 1.... and did you check the hanger was 100% straight?