[Closed] Countryfile - investigating cycling deaths

I'll tune into that.

Sorry about your friend.

Interesting. I wasn't aware there was a significant increase.

2 year driving ban and suspended sentence.....

[url= https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/birmingham-driver-who-left-passenger-18879269 ]Whereas[/url] 2 years 3 months jailtime.
Car passengers obviously worth more than cyclists.

Exactly the kind of frustrating information that means I probably will avoid the Countryfile story.

careless driving ? FFS!

Car passengers obviously worth more than cyclists.

we come below dogs, probably on a par with cats

Car passengers obviously worth more than cyclists.

I reckon the difference is probably more to do with the colour of the driver rather than who he killed. Or probably more the colour and status of the driver that killed the cyclist.

Really?

Hopefully i'm completely wrong.

I dont know the colour of the folk involved but its well known and well proven thatblack defendants are more likely to be found guilty and receive harsher sentances than white folk

There is quite a bit more to that second story linked, however, 2 year ban and suspended sentence for being way over the speed limit, crashing and killing a cyclist is not enough of a deterrent - at a minimum he should be paying the dead cyclists salary to his wife and children forever more so at the very least they don't struggle financially. I'm about to go out on my bike, my biggest fear isn't being run over, its what happens to my family if I am hit and killed by some 'careless' driver

I dont know the colour of the folk involved but its well known and well proven thatblack defendants are more likely to be found guilty and receive harsher sentances than white folk

I can quite believe this, but in cases of drivers killing cyclists, is it perhaps POC get roughly appropriate sentences and white, middle-class people benefit from the "there but for the grace of god..." effect.

my biggest fear isn’t being run over

I'm more worried about getting a puncture tbh. Otherwise I'd probably give it up.

David McSkimming was doing 59mph and ignored warning signs to slow down as he took a bend on the 40mph-limit Eastcote Lane

McSkimming had his 15-year-old son in the car at the time of the crash

Hardly dad of the year material. That sentence is a joke.

I suppose when I don't have many fears when cycling that getting hit would be high on that very short list. If I did get killed my wife gets £400K so she will be alright financially...

Obviously I wasn't in court & don't know the full facts but I fail to see how driving at nearly 60 in a 40 zone AND losing control can be classed as driving without care rather than dangerous driving... 😠

at a minimum he should be paying the dead cyclists salary to his wife and children forever more so at the very least they don’t struggle financially.

The drivers insurers will be doing that.

Obviously I wasn’t in court & don’t know the full facts but I fail to see how driving at nearly 60 in a 40 zone AND losing control can be classed as driving without care rather than dangerous driving…

As touched on usually in these threads, the Police/CPS have one chance to pick the charge that will get a conviction. Go for dangerous driving and the defence provides "reasonable doubt" in the minds of (probably) non cycling drivers on the jury, and he gets acquited. Go for a lesser charge you get "a" conviction.

Then there's the issue of interpretation of the sentencing guidelines of course

What joyous conclusion did Mr Baker come to? I had to go out, conveniently it was just as they said "He was 51 years old"

As touched on usually in these threads, the Police/CPS have one chance to pick the charge that will get a conviction. Go for dangerous driving and the defence provides “reasonable doubt” in the minds of (probably) non cycling drivers on the jury, and he gets acquited. Go for a lesser charge you get “a” conviction.

These individuals should be charged with death by dangerous driving, but with the option for a jury to return an alternative verdict of death by careless driving if they feel it does not meet the threshold. Just as we do with murder/manslaughter. Prosecution decisions should not be driven by fear of acquittal.

59 mph in a 40 sounds like a highly-conservative estimate of this ****'s speed (the car didn't just drift into the cyclist's path, but ****ing rebounded off a tree into him).

Quite a good piece I thought, even though the Country File presenter seemed to be trying say "yeah but some cyclists are idiots" at every opertunity he could.
I was suprised by the statisic of you're 3 times more likely to be killed on a quiet country road than a busy town road, will take that into account in future for route planning.

It wasn't a good article. The presenter made a few negative comments about cyclists, Sarah Storey stupidly wants all country roads to be 20mph quiet lanes etc.

It wasn't very balanced and some of the views were silly. There was a woman from a cycling campaign who was very sensible and calm.

Back in the 80s a woman on the wrong side of the road had a head on with a motorbike.
The rider died and she got off as the judge deemed that having to live with the guilt was punishment enough.

The some cyclists are dicks argument is one that has no relevance in road safety. Nobody (I hope) in this day and age would suggest a woman was'asking for it' if she was assaulted. Equally the SCAD argument is not an excuse for not driving carefully.

I was suprised by the statisic of you’re 3 times more likely to be killed on a quiet country road than a busy town road,

I'm surprised its comparatively so low.
In town accidents tend to be lower speed & emergency services tend to have much better response times.

Absolutely a guess but I'd also suspect on country lanes you're more likely to find a driver hitting multiple cyclists at a time than in a town.

I'd guess there are a lot more accidents but far fewer significant injuries and deaths. See also car accidents on motorways vs supermarket car parks

I was suprised by the statisic of you’re 3 times more likely to be killed on a quiet country road

I wasn't, unlimited single lane country roads are the most dangerous statistically.

Absolutely a guess but I’d also suspect on country lanes you’re more likely to find a driver hitting multiple cyclists at a time than in a town.

Mostly down to the speeds involved, and the presence of stone walls/trees. Drivers are also far more at risk of serious injury/death on rural roads.

Guess it depends on which rural roads you're talking about. I certainly feel safer riding home since I've been taking the quiet rural lanes to avoid the traffic. Been doing it for about 3 years and it's made commuting by bike a pleasure.

Sarah Storey made the point that cyclists were vulnerable on country roads but so were pedestrians and horses

It's worth watching on iPlayer.

Guess it depends on which rural roads you’re talking about. I certainly feel safer riding home since I’ve been taking the quiet rural lanes to avoid the traffic. Been doing it for about 3 years and it’s made commuting by bike a pleasure.

Same with me. I was quite shocked by the rural roads stats

I sold my road bike and gave up on road riding about ten years ago after being knocked off for the second time on my commute into Manchester City centre from Chorlton, and enduring countless near misses. Road use at this traffic density always feels really confrontational

I started again two years ago now that I've moved out to the sticks and had just assumed that the rural roads were safer. They've always felt a lot safer than riding in busy built up urban areas. I'm still always quite nervous when out on the road bike, but enjoy riding locally on rural roads

I do quite a bit of walking along river banks for work, and quite often have to walk back to my car a few Kms along pretty rural roads. It's bloody scary as they never have any pedestrian facility and drivers just don't slow down or pull far enough over when they speed past. Even when wearing hi-viz.

I was suprised by the statisic of you’re 3 times more likely to be killed on a quiet country road than a busy town road, will take that into account in future for route planning.

As someone who has ridden on country roads for the last 20 year I am not surprised at all.
In towns and cities the drivers are distracted, daydreaming, auto-pilot whatever but generally going slow and sticking to their lane so accidents are less likely to result in death.
In the country, drivers are going between 40 and 60mph and not looking out for cyclists, overtaking too closely at high speed, overtaking on blind bends etc,. and just driving like there won't be any cyclists on the road but when there are they are in their way and getting past them is all that matters at any cost.

Yeh the issue with a lot of country roads is that they essentially aren't busy enough, so people drive full belt like a race/rally track without thinking what else might be on the road, walker, cyclist, horse etc.

Some of the B roads here are much scarier than roads in town or even some A roads

Tony was a cycling buddy of mine so I'm not impartial - you would not meet a nicer person. Really fast/talented on the bike and also very modest, kind and generous. The incident should have been avoided. Ex RAF person driving too fast in his Porsche, I believe he had his son in tow/ showing off, lost control. Took Tony out in the process. Lessons don't drive too fast, drive what you can see, dont drive beyond you abilities etc etc. Won't bring Tony back to his family and friends.

I certainly feel safer riding home since I’ve been taking the quiet rural lanes to avoid the traffic

"Feel" is the key word there.

As I wrote in the driverless/automated car thread, while it doesn't cover all scenarios, where are the automated speed limits?

Over the last five years of cycling for fitness and discovering the South Downs lanes, I feel hell of a lot safer once I leave east Southampton SO18 and reach Horton Heath; Durley or Curdridge... All less than ~6 miles away. It's that ~10mins closest to home that can be so hostile at the wrong time of day that dictates when I'll head out and when I'll head back.

Back in the 80s a woman on the wrong side of the road had a head on with a motorbike.
The rider died and she got off as the judge deemed that having to live with the guilt was punishment enough.

Still happening - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-61549725.amp
He said he decided against a prison sentence because of Macdonald's clean driving record, and the effect the accident had on him personally.

IMHO the national speed limit country lanes are where you, as a cyclist, are most at the mercy of errant motorists. Combine high differential speeds, limited width and impatience and it's a recipe for accidents.

I’ve been taking the quiet rural lanes

So does the National Cycle Network. Do we think that they hate us?

“Feel” is the key word there.

I reckon “3 years” is quite important in the post you edited. “Pleasure” too.

Growing up in rural Oxfordshire I can confirm that the back roads are absolutely terrifying to cycle on. Local drivers speed along at about 50 mph because they are so familiar with the layout.

I'm not just talking about boy racers either, my Mum was nervous of driving on motorways but she used to drive the local back roads like she was on a rally stage, cutting the corners and everything. That was until she inevitably ended up in a ploughed field near Didcot...

Come to think of it, ending up in a ploughed field whilst in a car is something of a right of passage for drivers and passengers alike round those parts, found myself in that location as an unwilling passenger a couple of times myself back in the day.