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This popped up on my YT recently and it got me thinking we might start seeing bar height rising over the next few years.
It seems this is kind of an obvious progression given the way bikes have evolved over the last two or three decades (at least in my mind).
Mid to late 90s: Front wheel and rear wheel tucked tightly under the rider. Snappy (or crappy) handling but the weight distribution is more or less balanced so long as you don't shift your weight too much meaning two wheel drifts.
The 00s and early 10s: During this period people started to realise if you slackened the head angle the bike became easier to control. Front wheel moved out but people seemed to want to keep the same wheelbase so they did their best to tuck the rear wheel even closer to the BB. Cue lots of front wheel slide outs until people figured out how to drop their weight further over the front wheel, partly by dropping their bars. I remember hearing about pro riders filing down their dual crown forks to get the bar height even lower.
The mid-10 to now: Big wheels mean the rear wheel can't be tucked under the riders bum anymore and the world doesn't end. Suddenly rear ends shoot off backwards and people find they are riding balanced bikes again. However, habit means we're all still desperately trying to keep our front wheel weighted to avoid the dreaded front wheel slide out, even though it's not really an issue anymore. Manualing and actually being able to shift your weight around on the bike is a pain in the arse though.
Enter the Raised Reversed Stem.
Or you could avoid paying $400 and just get a set of 5" rise BMX bars instead, which unless I'm missing something, would put your hands in the same place.
I don't know. It seems fairly logical to me that we're going to see a return of very high rise bars over the next few years.
Or maybe dropper stems.
Could we all be using stems or BMX bars like that? No, not a chance.
Could we all be using stems or BMX bars like that?
Like what BMX bars? Surly already has the Sunrise bar but that's around 3" rise. Looks to me like that stem is around 5" but there are race BMX bars with that rise (most normal BMX bars are 8" to 10" which I think might be too much).
Yay, another handlebar war. It’ll be just like old times
Was there a First Handlebar War? Changes to handlebars I don't mind. It doesn't really render anything obsolete like changes to wheel size and fork steerer changes do.
Mtb marketing meeting:
"hey, what can we use to drive sales in 2025? We've done wheels, frames, seatposts, gears... Heck they even swallowed that new mech hanger idea"
"how about bringing back purple anodising?"
"too late bud, hayes went early on that one"
"saddles?"
"nah we've already done 3d printing and the profit was good but it seems dentists don't like stuff that's full of cavities"
"hey what about a new type of Handlebar? It's been years since we last messed about with them"
"now that could work...."
High rise zero reach stems have already been "a thing" at least twice in the last 25 years already. What goes around...
Like what BMX bars?
BMX cruiser race bars I would think, around 5" of rise but most are steel so would need some alloy options as steel bars are bloody heavy.
High rise zero reach stems have already been “a thing” at least twice in the last 25 years already. What goes around…
That was kind of my point. They made sense until the front wheel moved out and the rear wheel moved in, then they didn't. Now that the rear wheel has moved out to balance the bike they make sense again.
I have a Thomson bmx stem and renthal cruiser bars hanging around which could do much the same for far less.
Not sure I'd fancy it for any steep tech climbs though!
£400 for an ugly stem...
That was kind of my point. They made sense until the front wheel moved out and the rear wheel moved in, then they didn’t. Now that the rear wheel has moved out to balance the bike they make sense again.
I am not sure they ever made sense. Even on the early Mondraker DH bikes they weren't popular with the team riders if I recall.
I had one on my DH bike in like 1998 and it made an already short bike much shorter - but hey, it was cool at the time!
To counter twisteds comment above surely dropper bars must be the new thing. Maybe they could rotate with a electronic button so we coulkd go drops and aero or rotated like we did as kids or polo players do.
What is almost certain is that the front end of a bike for someone 5' tall shouldn't be within an inch or so (head tubes don't seem to vary more than that) of the front end of a bike someone 6'5, especially when the saddle of the latter is probably 8-10" higher.
What is almost certain is that the front end of a bike for someone 5′ tall shouldn’t be within an inch or so (head tubes don’t seem to vary more than that) of the front end of a bike someone 6’5, especially when the saddle of the latter is probably 8-10″ higher.
That's a very good point. Some people have effectively been using this stem for years when compared to tall people 🙂
Get ahead of the trend of fit a bmx bar with built in basket. So many niches ticked off.
https://flic.kr/p/2otdw7r
Was there a First Handlebar War?
you missed the great riser vs straight (with bar ends) wars of the early naughties? Oh man, it makes e-bike vs non e-bike look like a lovers tiff by comparison.
You had to have been there I guess.
you missed the great riser vs straight (with bar ends) wars of the early naughties?
Oh yeah. No, I got my first 'proper' mtb in 97. From what I remember I was the only person in our club with riser bars (cause MBUK said they were cooler than straight bars).
Got some funny looks and comments but 5 years later the war was won and everyone had them.
I thought you might have been referring to the 2nd Handlebar War where Sam Hill rocked up with 800mm bars and everyone lost their shit. I don't remember it being much of a war though. More everyone just going, 'I need wider handlebars' with a few weirdos saying, 'But how will they fit between the trees?!'.
Anyway, I watched that same video a couple of days ago, he didn't have great fun climbing with them.
Club Roost bars with a bolt on brace were the absoloute shit during handlebar war 1 (before Azonic came along)
Hold on a minute ! So the reason I can't manual is because my bars are too low ?
Not because i'm a bit rubbish ?
Where do I sign up ?
So the reason I can’t manual is because my bars are too low ?
Not because i’m a bit rubbish ?
Someone has stumbled on the real reason I got excited about this.
Didn't we cover this a couple of days ago?
Yes - a lot of people would be more comfortable with higher bars (but not too high).
No - Zero offset stems don't work and make the handling all kinds of horrible. It's like the early days of stems getting shorter and people putting 60mm stems on XC bikes and proclaiming it to be GNARRRRR. It wasn't, it was a horrible twitchy, unrideable mess. There might be some combination of head angle and fork offset that makes it work, but it's not the current 65deg/45-51mm.
a few weirdos saying, ‘But how will they fit between the trees?!’.
To be fair, for anyone who rides in a wooded area this was/is an actual problem. 800mm bars felt great on the holiday to Spain, blasting down some rocky hillside 3000ft above the treeline, didn't work so well on a cold rainy night in Stoke.
It's just been 15 years now of trails slowly diverting around those narrow gaps or trees getting cut down.
It's amazing how many "new" bike ideas have already been done by Cleland bikes forever...
And yet Cleaned bikes are still shit 😉
It looks like long low and slack is going to be short, high and slack.
Tbh all this shows is that there's more than one fun bike design, as you'd expect.
As some in the comments of Seth's video said, this is basically MX bike geometry.
Hands behind the head tube and quite a bit higher than the seat.
Fabien Barel used to run something similar when he was on Mondraker.
stupid idea, it'll never catch on, riding with high rise sweepy bars is rubbish
No.
Fabien Barel used to run something similar when he was on Mondraker.
And is on record saying it was rubbish / too extreme.
As some in the comments of Seth’s video said, this is basically MX bike geometry.
MX bikes weigh ~110-120kg, and you grip them with your knees so your weight is taken through the COG of the bike as well.
MTB's, 85% of the mass is in the rider, and you can't grip it with your knees.
And for the last decade or so they've had adjustable 'stems' where you can bolt up the bar clamps in amore forward position, or buy aftermarket offset clamps to do the same. It's mostly for fit though as bikes on the shop floor are sized for a worldwide average height of <5ft9.
BMX bars maybe not but I'd agree with the gist of the OP. High bars and long wheelbases is an interesting combo, not ridden it much but first impressions were positive. I liked the leverage and body position stability from the high bars (at or above XC saddle line), but I'm used to a fairly high bar on my MTBs anyway.
I think bars are wide enough now that being higher than they have been generally for some time isn't an issue for cornering for most of us and most situations. DH/Enduro racers at full tilt excepted perhaps.
High rise bars rather than long steerers for tall rider? Yes please. Maybe for all of us.
you missed the great riser vs straight (with bar ends) wars of the early naughties?
I've only just taken the bar ends off my (approx 20 year old) flat bar commuter bike - but that was mainly because they made it awkward to fit pogies.
#imnotnormal
Had similar years ago. A Woodman 0 reach stem on a trials bike. Was fun but totally unpractical for most riding. Did make manuals easy though.
You just wait till cow-horn handlebars with tassles start appearing on gravel bikes! 🤯🤯
And the upside-down road bike bars set-up = awesome wheelies!
#backtothe70s
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What is almost certain is that the front end of a bike for someone 5′ tall shouldn’t be within an inch or so (head tubes don’t seem to vary more than that) of the front end of a bike someone 6’5, especially when the saddle of the latter is probably 8-10″ higher.
A 6' rider's saddle will be about 5-6" higher than a 5' rider for XC/road pedalling. Always seemed a bit odd how the saddle to bar drop generally increased as bikes/riders got taller. I've put frame geometry size ranges together and been quite aware of that, also been aware of how very long head tubes are a no-go for sales in the mainstream.
I think some of that discrepancy is because so much of bike geometry has/had a road bike influence and on a road bike the low upper body angle means a taller rider's grip is lower Vs the saddle than a shorter rider's.
But on MTBs the bar to saddle relationship seems more directly related to height and an out-of-saddle position with a more upright upper body, if so it could vary by the same 6" or so as saddle height. I can only think it's a visual thing to have shorter HTs, a resistance to gate-like frames? More bar rise options would be good to see - ideally you'd have some of the added height in the HT and some in the bar.
Bristol is full of kids on 24 or 24 jump bikes with BMX bars. They call them ‘wheelie bikes’ apparently.
And they look more like MTBs with BMX bars than Cruiser BMXs.
@BruceWee - or the 3rd handlebar war (currently. Cold War) between 31.8 and the overly stiff 35mm bars (which they are continuously trying to engineer to ‘feel just like their 31.8mm bars’).
Not quite BMX handlebars... Sam Pilgrim at it now
If I can get the backsweep I like I'd buy them. I ran the first Club Roosts with the bolted brace when they came over, just to try and raise the stupidly low front end on my 93 Orange Clockwork. I thought this year when I built up my first 29er I'd be leaving that bllx behind. Nope. Check out the stack of spacers and 100mm stem on my 'XL' frame....(I'm 6'4", hardly a giant by modern standards).
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I'd rather have a longer head tube, and a longer frame to compensate for that given the head angle, but moto bars are another solution, I guess.
So the story is the inventor is a racer who often wins things...
From Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/MTB/comments/12iusmz/what_do_you_think_of_the_raised_reverse_stem/
There is a vid of the owner trying to ride this stem at a race. He can't make a single turn. Surprised, nope.
https://www.rootsandrain.com/rider12580/bronson-moore/results/
He wins races with 4 or less people at one course, which he apparently rides really frequently. Even at the course, he's had some back of the pack finishes with larger groups.
I'm of no doubt the more recent trend for higher rise HB's is a direct result of stack heights not increasing proportionally to the relatively big gains we're seeing with reach on more progressive, modern geo.
To throw another wild suggestion into the pot... how about scaled size specific rise that increases with frame size for complete bikes? Might be a logical route if bike brands reason for not increasing stack proportionally with reach is visual hesitation over HT lengths?
I'm 100% certain that would make it horrendous to ride
And that's from someone with the body shape it would suit most - long legs, short torso