I'm considering one of the above frames as a self build and keen to get feedback on both.
They seem quite similar in geometry, albeit the Pole has a steeper seat angle which is preferable, but the Cotic seems to to have fancier tubing (does this improve the ride quality?).
Apart from that there seems to be little to separate the two. Price is fairly similar as well.
I'm after a decent level of compliance, hence steel and don't want to spend any more on a frame, so counts out more exotic offerings.
Keen to get real world experience on both and if I've missed any other frames that fit into the same bracket?
Cheers!
They may be similar in intended use, but they're not really that similar geometry wise.
With a 140mm fork ( as per quoted for the Taival geometry), Seat angle on the Cotic is over 2 degrees slacker and the reach on a per size basis is pretty much an inch shorter. These two will, IME make it feel significantly different from the Taival, especially considering the stack on the Cotic is 2 inches lower. The head angle is a degree steeper and the stays are also longer. these are smaller differences but will still contribute to a different feel.
Also IME, you wont get old skool XC 853 compliance from any of the new breed of steel HTs because they're built to take a bit of hammer. They'll certainly be more comfy than and equivalent alu bike, but you wont be jumping on going 'whoa! Its like a soft tail!'
I have the Taival and have ridden a Last Fastforward for the last 2 years. The Last IS quite similar to the geometry of the Solaris, bar the head angle, and the Taival is quite different.
Cheers for that. I noticed the long head tube on the Pole which the reach needs adjusting for. I also note that Cotic measure geometry as sagged so a small adjustment to be made there as well.
How is your Taival set up?
I almost went for one of these.
Some mates have the solaris and they all love them.
I really wanted a tarvial but it was for a specific ride and the due date on the website kept slipping which put me right off.
I went for a second hand sick frame in the end (cash in hand). I'd definely not be buying a new one from sick themselves, but might go for one from the guy who builds them.
I should have also added I'm considering a medium Cotic and small Taival as they are closest to what I ride currently.
It's the 2 deg slacker seat tube on the Cotic that concerns me a bit but as I'm only 5ft8 I'm thinking shoving the saddle fwd on the rails may be ok.
I also note that Cotic measure geometry as sagged so a small adjustment to be made there as well.
Good point. In which case, the differences between them on SA and reach are even larger.
How is your Taival set up?
Thus:
Very tidy that!
Notice stem is slammed. How tall are you and what size is it? Wondering if head tube will be too tall for me.
I'm 182cm. Its a medium and Pole say I should be on a large, although I'm right on the Medium/Large split. If I was ragging on open moors all the time, I would have got the large, but I do lots of tight woodsy singletrack so went for the size down. Even so, its wheel base is 1258mm, but it just doesn't feel like its that long.
The stack is high. What I've noticed about these longer front centre bikes is because your weight is more forward due to steeper seat angles, the bars don't need so much downward load to pin the wheel for grip so you can run them higher for better control and more resistance to forward ejection. Its another aspect of new skool LLS that is markedly different from traditional thinking.
The flip side of this is that if you have a long reach but slack(er) seat angle, there is a sort of gap between your seated and attack position, where you need to consciously move oneself forwards, which can provide a delay to handling where you don't want one.
