[Closed] Cotic Rocket Build...what say the STW collective?

Here's mine, in Orange though. I love it but not loving the RS Maxle right now.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/14440616@N03/7570378204/in/photostream/

I like white wheels. But that doesn't count - it's your bike, you do what the hell you like with it.

I think your on to a winner with that build.

size is that john? the frame looks long

Looks good to me. You just said shadow mech, worth getting a shadow+.

Not sure but are you using a rear minion on the rear? That's madness 🙂

Nope sorry going mad DHF on the front, something else on the rear... That was on the demo and it was a good combo.

I'm tending towards the black...

It's a small bruneep.
Alex, Your list looks like the one I had before I ran out of money and had to buy stuff on offer 🙂 I would have liked it in green or blue.

Yeah saw the Solaris in those colours. Looks fab. I don't like to think about they money 😉 What don't you like about the maxle?

I've yet to see a rocket build I don't like...

Personally I'd swap the 710 bars for some Easton Havoc 750's (I like wide bars) and a 50mm stem, other than that your spec looks spot-on 🙂
I'd say black with white forks and white wheels!

Shadow+ rear mech I hope. It's the dogs danglies!

Wow, must be good. End of a relatively stable era in your turbulent shed.

1x10
50 or 60mm stem
A saddle that doesnt look like a settee
Rims that will take a battering (I dont know if Arch's are upto this?)

1x10 is a bit lively for round here. It's fairly bonkers steep in bits. Arch EX are pretty sturdy. I've had flows before but heard good things about the EXs.

Alec - well yeah. Loved the ST4. Really did. Would have been fine for PDS. But after seven months of working my whatsits off with hardly a break, I reckon I can justify it. Probably 😉

I'd 2nd the shorter stem wider bars. Got havoc (750) bars and (55) haven stem on mine. Think the demo was similar.

I'd be going for flows myself too.

Black will show up the dirt less (you know in the difficult to clean areas around the linkages) but the scratches more...

I went for orange but that's because I fancied it after shifting the orange Solaris...

The beauty of black is that looks good with white or black forks...

I pondered the 2x but in the end the groupset came off another bike so it was a triple with the outter ring swapped out for a bash. I prefer climbing in the middle ring as far as I can so if this was larger I'm not sure it would work for me. Be interested in how you get on though.

Thanks. 750mm bars in the FoD would be potentially a bit interesting. I thought 711 was pretty much out there 😉 The reason I like the rocket geom is I'm 5ft11 but basically a dwarf from the hips down with a 31.5 inch leg. So long and low works for me and the M was spot on. It had a short stem on it now I come to think of it. Shall ask Cy what bar/stem combo was.

Right I'm off to fenagle a spreadheet. Going to try and buy from LBS if I can (apart from forks as Merlin have a killer deal on the Revs). German sites are so much cheaper but I'm always going on about supporting my local shop which is ace, so best put money where mouth is !

Ta for all your help. Useful stuff.

Personally I'd swap the 710 bars for some Easton Havoc 750's (I like wide bars) and a 50mm stem, other than that your spec looks spot-on

Only other thing I'd spec different would be Flow Ex's over Arch EX. I have the Arch's on my Soul but for a rocket I'd go for the full on width of the Flow EX. The weight difference is not that great (90g?) and I think the extra width would help support some 2.4's well. I like wide tyres though.

Tested a Rocket at Calver in Sat. LOVED IT. Im ordering one tommorow......
My Spec list is:-
Fox Float 34's
Bos Vipr shock
Hope headset, ceramic BB, and seat clamp
Hope EVO hubs with either DT swiss or stans
Hope M4's with Tech levers and 203mm rotors
Shimano XT 2x10 drivetrain
Reverb drop post
Hope 50mm stem and some carbon 710mm bars.
Think that might work. Anyt houghts?
Tried to keep it in the UK......

I'll take your ST4 off your hands.

ST4 is advertised here: http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/orange-st4-2011-full-bike-pics a killer deal even if I do say so myself.

Advice noted on the Arch. Shall go with Flow EX.

Sorry OrangeCrush forgot your name. You were clearly enjoying it as much as I was.

Well that was predictable, wasn't it, Al! 😆

My take would (will!) be:-
Fox 34s (I found the 32s a bit sproingy in comparison to the solidity of the backend)
Either 2x9 (it's lighter than 2x10 - the chainrings are smaller and there's less rings on the cassette). Or X11 (yeah right!)
Brakes - not sure about. The shimano's are powerful, but have all the finesse of a brick wall. Hopes have the modulation but are down on outright power and (I think) are heavier.
Reverb.
Haven carbon bars, Haven stem. The medium demo bikes have a 60mm stem on them. That worked for me...
Wheels - DT 240 hubs, Arch EX front, Flow rear, supercomp spokes and ally nips. Might look at the Pacenti rims too.

Oh, and it's gotta be orange... 😀

Op, sounds great to me! I will put my 2 penny's in and vouch for Arch EX. They're tough as and to boot I've got the white ones on Hope hubs. I reckon that if you are under 170 pounds in weight the Arch EX are all you need. Flows for the bigger boys IMO.

Have fun, it sounds amazing!

Edit: Arch Ex do support 2.4 tires, I use them. Just a thought...

Very nice. I'll vote for Flow EX as I have Flows on my Soul and like the width - EX will let you run huge tyres for uplift days but are still pretty light. And a 50mm stem but stick with the 710 bars if you ride tight woodland.

moc: only comments would be Fox 34's will raise the front end/slacken HA to ~66 deg. If you don't have too much climbing then prob not an issue.

203mm rotors? Demo had 160 which I agree is not big enough, got 183's on mine and not had any problems. Def over kill on the back... no?

Personally I'm a bit wary of the vipr. I have heard of some reliability problems with this damper. Great shock, when it works though... Lack of uk distributor for Bos ATM would put me off.

Oh another thing. Make sure you get the right front mech. It's a high clamp (bottom pull?/conventional?) you need as a 'top pull' (low clamp) mech won't fit...

Just so's you don't make a mistake like someone I could mention... 😳

If you want to see some awesome stans flow white blingage...well you know where i am 🙂

Ta again. Right I'll have another think about rims. And bars. And Stems. And Front Mechs 😉

Jon - Fox34s are silly money. I might look at some hope's problem is I have XTs on my other bike and I wonder about switching between them! I did try very hard not to buy a Rocket. But sadly the demo knocked me over the edge.

Not too much climbing where I live? /goes off in the corner and sobs

H - I shall come and see your blingage 🙂

What's so good about these rockets then?

Slack, low, solid, and surprisingly good (like, really surprisingly good) on the way back up.

Just fun to ride basically!

Good advice chaps. Im hearing you all on the Stans.....
Alex! What a bike eh!

Re the Hopes - I run M4s right now and they cack all over the shimano and Avid junk I have run before in terms of relaibility service ease and sheer stopping power. Weight? Bah - just try harder......

P

I'd do 180/160 discs unless you're much heavier than me (12.5 stone). Race Evo M4 brakes have amazing feel but if you like XTs then why change? I'd be tempted by fatter stanchions but for the small weight savings of 34s vs 36s I'd probably go hunting for a bargain on a heavier duty fork, as the 34s aren't cheap.

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This is mine revelations from merlin and slx off my mates old genesis core i love it and yes i know you dont like the blue bits 🙂

Pic fail 🙁

Run 2.4's on my arch and arch ex no problems.

Right the spreadsheet is done. Now just need to work out the number at the bottom. Also need to find some tyres I like that I can run tubeless. Always had the 2.35 ignitors but they lack butchness of tread. But DHF can't be run tubeless unless you get what appears to be a tractor version.

Shall think on that tomorrow. Ta all.

Alex - Member

But DHF can't be run tubeless unless you get what appears to be a tractor version.

I ran singleply DHFs tubeless no bother (on Flows). Can't rely on it obviously but it can be done for sure.

But if you want something minioney and tubeless ready, then Mr Specialized has for you the Clutch Control.

Can't comment about Rocket builds but I was looking at one today in Keswick Mountain Bikes and I was impressed with it. A fantastic looking bike 😀

Been running Minions tubeless for years. Sadly you only seem to be able to get the DHF supertacky in wire bead which is a bit heftier + not as reliable run tubeless. Barons (Black chili tubeless version coming out soon IIRC), Hans Damps might be wallet hoovering options??

I shall go sniff out some rubber then 😉 Wallet hoovering already done. Nothing left in there except guilt 😉

I have folding Minions on my white Flow rims.

Went up easily with a track pump.

Oh another thing. Make sure you get the right front mech. It's a high clamp (bottom pull?/conventional?) you need as a 'top pull' (low clamp) mech won't fit...

I assume this means you need a conventional down swing (high mount) mech with top pull (think most are dual pull these days?), rather than a top swing (low mount) mech ?

Any pics of Large ones? Preferably in Black.

Minion DHF EXO 2.5 with the reinforced sidewalls works great tubeless on Flows and is a brilliant front tyre - it's more like a very large 2.35 than a genuine 2.5. Nice paired with a 2.25 Ardent EXO run tubeless on the back - it's more like a small 2.35 than a 2.25, especially on a Flow, which tends to maximise tyre volume. Pretty grippy, reasonably fast.

[b][u]JonEdwards:[/u][/b] Slack, low, solid, and surprisingly good (like, really surprisingly good) on the way back up.Slack

OK, so that should make it fun on the way down and "surprisingly good" on the way up, which sounds ideal. But it's still heavy and [obvious_troll] built around a soon to be obsolete wheel size (if you believe the hype) [/obvious_troll]. So, can it really be that good? Only one way to find out I guess.

Cheers,

Andy

He has a 29er prototype in action if you're worried about it being a 26er

Glad you guys liked the bikes. Was a good demo despite the weathers' best efforts.

FWIW I run my Rocket with Arch EX's and haven't had any trouble, but I'm not a wheel wrecker and I guess my ace in the hole is that I have a demo fleet of Flow equipped wheels to pop on for going to the big mountains.

Bars/stem wise I would start with what you know and try out from there. The small and medium demo bikes have a 60mm stem and 20mm rise x 710mm wide bars. I run high rise 710's on a 70mm stem on my large. I tried 750's very recently thinking they'd be great, but they were very low rise so had to lift my stem on spacers and got some really weird handling out of them. Kept countersteering out of corners when I weighted the bars. I think basically it was too low and I couldn't physically reach low enough to tip the bike in with the extra bar width. Been pondering it a bit, but put my old bars back on for the weekend and much preferred them. Might have to try and shorter stem with the wide bars, but I think a limit is close to being reach for me.

Brakes-wise, whatever you prefer. Those Shimano's are insanely powerful but don't have a deal on subtlety. Rotors on the demo bikes are 180/160 BTW. I'm back on Hope's after a few years off. Running Race X2's on 203/180 rotors. Loving them.

If there's room in the budget, get a Reverb.

Finally - tyres [warning! Preference statement alert. I do not purport this to be fact!]

I'm running the 2.5" Minnion EXO's front and rear. Tubeless rear for reliability and tubed front for feel. I just can't get on with tubeless on anything other than full on (read heavy) UST tyres. There just isn't enough stiffness in the sidewalls of even the EXO's to hold them up and low pressures. I run higher pressure in the rear and put up with the slightly splashy feel because I like the lower weight and reliability, but can't be doing with it on the front. The feel of the tubeless set up gives me the willies. Note I'm pretty heavy (90kg in riding gear) and YMMV.

OK, so that should make it fun on the way down and "surprisingly good" on the way up, which sounds ideal. But it's still heavy and [obvious_troll] built around a soon to be obsolete wheel size (if you believe the hype) [/obvious_troll]. So, can it really be that

I know you said it was an obvious troll but I think you're asking a valid question on wheel size.

26" wheels are as likely to become obsolete as hard tails and vinyl. Demand may reduce but people will always still ride them. I feel more than fast enough in a 26" bike that going faster on a 29er just doesn't hold any appeal, not least as I sit here and try typing with 1.5 arms nursing the umpteenth broken bone in six years. I need to be going slower not faster.

On the issue of weight I think it's important and the Rocket is relatively heavy on like for like basis but so many people have pointed out that it doesn't ride like a heavy bike. I ride a relatively heavy bike also, about the same weight as the rocket, but with strong stiff and light wheels even the heaviest lump can feel sprightly. Wheels make far more difference I think in terms of how weight can impact ride quality.

OP a few other suggestions. Don't buy a fork just because it's cheap. I think the advantages of going to a tapered steerer are worth spending a little more money on especially if you're going for a 32mm chassis. Like Jon Edwards I found both the Revs and Fox 32mm forks too flexy. It's worth spending a bit more to get the right fork for the future.

Wheels - think about getting high quality hand built units. There are a few very respected wheel building specialists out there like Strada (based bear Worthing) and Harry Rowland. They can build you bespoke; Strada recommend Sapim CX Ray spokes (equivalent to DT bladed) which shave valuable weight from the total build and this will make a difference.

Other than that have fun with it.

Minion DHF EXO 2.5 with the reinforced sidewalls works great tubeless on Flows and is a brilliant front tyre - it's more like a very large 2.35 than a genuine 2.5. Nice paired with a 2.25 Ardent EXO run tubeless on the back - it's more like a small 2.35 than a 2.25, especially on a Flow, which tends to maximise tyre volume. Pretty grippy, reasonably fast.

At the risk of turning this into a wheel size debate, I think for the next few years the whole wheel size point is moot. I thought we'd decimate sales of the Soul when the Solaris turned up. Just hasn't happened. Lots of people like 26", appreciate it and have lots of nice 26" stuff. It'll be the same with 650b. It'll just become another option, not the replacement or the be all and end all.

Also ran 2.5 Minion EXO (tubes) on Arch EX on my Soul in the Alps this summer with no bother at all, and i'm a bit heavier that Cy! So i'd prob just swap them over if i get a rocket next year.

Since most people seem to be loving the Arch's with wide tyres I thought I'd give you the reason behind my previous comment:

I have the Arch's on my Soul but for a rocket I'd go for the full on width of the Flow EX. The weight difference is not that great (90g?) and I think the extra width would help support some 2.4's well

I run Conti MKII 2.4 Protections front and rear on Arch EX's with tubes. I love the comfort of having all that volume but they don't inspire much confidence for me. I have to run the pressure quite low to get decent grip, especially on off camber sections when you really asking the side of the tyre to do the work. At this sort of pressure it feels like the tyres are trying to roll off the rim, quite disconcerting.

Twice now I've done a 180 endo and the tyre has rolled completely under the rim and then, amazingly, popped back on. Something is not right!

Tempted to try them tubeless but I don't think it will help as the sidewalls of the tyre just aren't stiff enough. cy's comment above has put me off just trying it.

Sorry for the thread hijack - Let the Rocket love continue!

Cy - pick the phone up! I want to buy a bike.....

I assume this means you need a conventional down swing (high mount) mech with top pull (think most are dual pull these days?), rather than a top swing (low mount) mech?

Its a bottom pull (cable routed under the bottom bracket). but other wise yes. Yes usually dual pull mechs these days (had to hack off the bottom pull arm to fit on the Solaris....)

Ah so it is. Funnily enough, just spotted pics of it on a German forum, mainly because someone seems to have the guide thingy under the BB on the wrong way.

Just to resurrect the tyre part of this thread. Is everyone running the 60a versions of the Maxxis rubber? I shall try them with a tube to get me going and convert to Tubeless when I'm seriously starved of entertainment one evening 😉

60a is what you want for trail riding really. I've run 42d super tackys before and they grip amazingly well but man do they drag on anything other than a DH! You can feel the rubber being laid down on the trail!

Ta 🙂

Can anyone recommend a decent knowledgeable north west based wheel supplier?

Alex - I took the plunge.

Good Man. That'll be Paul packing up two on Thursday then!

That'll be Paul packing up two on Thursday then!

So, that means pictures by the end of the weekend, right?

Can anyone recommend a decent knowledgeable north west based wheel supplier?

Merln look like the boys. The right options and the moneys right - stonking sale on!

Can anyone recommend a decent knowledgeable north west based wheel supplier?

North West Mountain Bikes are the best!

Alex - Member

Just to resurrect the tyre part of this thread. Is everyone running the 60a versions of the Maxxis rubber?

I'd say 60A on the back but I've not yet found a maxxpro that works how I like on the front. Not so much about grip, as what they do when they run out!

Frame arrives Friday. Forks are here. All the bits might arrive this week depending on wheel builds. Monday we go on Holiday for a week. My timing couldn't be better. Still something to look forward to when I get back. There might be pics of a frame and loads of packages in a 'do you know what it is yet' kind of game 😉

Game on ALex! Im just ordering bits now......

Excellent. I went with the Float RL in the end after speaking to Paul and being honest about my riding ability 😉

My stuff should be here today, frame tomorrow, build saturday, ride in the rain sunday. Go on holiday. This is shaping up to be quite a goof weekend.

I've also take the sage advice of the STW tyre brains trust and gone with a mighty Minion DHF and LUST Ardent. Might have forgotten to buy any tape/tubeless valves. Am I going to be in some kind of thumb breaking hell sticking a tube and a LUST tyre on those ARCH EX Rims?

What I am missing here is [url= http://ow.ly/i/12iNp ]a bike fame[/url] And a couple of other things which I reckon I can steal from my friends come build day...

[img] [/img]

Due to a lack of time, and a massive hangover I've passed this into the competent arms of the LBS. That way there is a) a good chance i can get to ride it tomorrow before hols for a week and b) it won't be ruined by me rushing it and taking a hammer to expensive bits.

Frame is lovely. A good weight, great paint and finish and lots of clever detail.

Ha, just remembered I built mine with a massive hangover... it took all day instead of just the morning.

Happy days 😀

You're lucky the lbs can squeeze you in at such short notice!

He knew he had it coming 😉 There was a groundswell of opinion from my riding pals that really I shouldn't be allowed near the spanners, even if sober. I have built a few bikes, I just don't really enjoy it. Especially Cables and Front Mechs. Spawn of the devil!

Ha, well the cable routing on the Rocket needs to be thought out first, that's for sure.

It's too expensive to throw together, it's better it get put together with care.

Ok. Frame arrived. Bits arrived. The wheels were bourn unto me on a cloud gilt with silver......
After drawing blood on three seperate fingers and (I think) getting it mostly right. Shes done. Built.

Kudos to Paul and Cy at Cotic - very helpful.....

Now the painful and nerve jangling bit. Getting her muddy....... The Peninnes I think......

^ Meaningless without photos! ^

Photos are coming...... It was over cast in Cheshire...... My babe needs the light to be right....