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I’ve had my Cotic Jeht 1 for nearly a year now. It does pretty much everything I want (generally, Scottish trail centres, including the off-piste sections), but I’ve never really warmed to it. I have a On-One Whippet (rigid) which I've loved from the first ride, but the Cotic doesnt get that love, its just another bike. There’s nothing really wrong with it, just niggles - drinking bottle placement below the downtime, it seems to weigh a lot, the rear wheel failed after 8 months, but nothing that cannot be sorted. Its the sort of bike that I’m just not bothered about, even though it works perfectly well.
However, in the PSA thread, the GT Sensor has just come up, and what a lovely looking bike and colour. The specs say they are pretty similar bikes. The GT is slightly lighter, it can fit a bottle in the triangle, geometry looks to be very similar too. The Gt has better front forks, no idea about the shock.
Any thoughts about comparison of the two? Its not like I can get a test ride on the GT, so difficult to compare them beforehand.
Thanks.
GT as a company are "paused" aren't they? Factor into the PSA that you might not have a warranty on your new frame
No warranty or support with the GT unfortunately.
Whereas Cotic support is great, the cane creek shocks are brilliantly tunable, steel is easy to repair.. etc. Weight? well all trail bikes weigh a fair bit. That's the price for all that capability. But you get used to it. Bottles - fair enough. When I had a Rocket it was a rucksack drinking bladder for me and that was fine.
If you haven't already, give the shock settings a tweak - the Dialed app is good. I thought the Rocket was good, but not great with the base tune, then I started tweaking it, bracketing, repeating runs, and got it perfect for me...and the bike felt many times better.
I have a Jeht 1 and think its an incredible bike. Not very lively for xc stuff i'll grant you that, but for a trail bike it really punches above its weight when pointed downhill or hits the rough stuff.
Plus its very nice looking. I use a hip bag for bottle / phone / tools etc.
I'd have thought since GT has not gone bust and the parent company still exists that any warranty should be valid?
I bought a gt sensor carbon frame on clearance, got half way through the build and realised the seatstay bearings were knocking even when fully torque up. It went back to the supplier to fit replacement bearings and still wasn't right second time round. I'd stick with the cotic.
geometry looks to be very similar too
Probably not going to give you the change you seek then. What do you like about the Whippet?
I was also looking at some of the heavily discounted Sensor Carbons. Shop I spoke to said that PON are still doing warranty and service - but sort of indirectly via Cannondale as GT is paused. So there’s still potentially some help available.
What do you like about the Whippet?
Lightweight (it’s a rigid), feels good when riding it, fits perfectly, very smooth. Totally different riding to what my FS is for though.
I've recently got a RocketMax and it's lighter than my previous Nukeproof Reactor that had 30mm less travel.
I had a fully rigid Whippet and just couldn't get on with it. The absolutely mince SX group set no doubt didn't help as I could never get it to shift across the range. Bit old school style too where you sit high on the bike which didn't suit me as I'm fully on board low bb's, steep seat tubes and long top tubes.
Ultimately if you don't gel with the Cotic you may as well look elsewhere if you have the funds. The GT's are certainly well priced atm, as are the Scott's at Balfe's.
I had a mk1 Jeht & although it was an incredibly comfortable mile muncher it just didn’t engage me.
With Cy’s blessing & advice I fitted a coil shock, which helped it no end, but it just had something missing for me.
I love Cotic as a brand & appreciate their ethos, but I’m firmly of the opinion that if the bike doesn’t suit then get rid & move on.
MTBs are meant to be fun, leisure items. If there’s no fun then there’s no point. Sure, I could get on any bike and have a decent ride, but I want to be engaged, I want to grin every time I swing my leg over it.
my advice is get the GT, have a few rides & see how it engages you. If you like it then sell the Jeht. If you don’t like it then sell em both & start again.
Looking at what you have written; the qualities you are after, lightness mentioned a couple of times and your liking for the very light rigid whippet, all sort of don't quite point to a trail bike. Yeah, some trail bikes are a bit lighter, but there's not much in it if it's capable of smashing it downhill like they are meant to.
Instead would a bike from the segment down that is still capable off piste be suitable? Ie a bike that rides light because it has less travel. Trance, Stage 4 etc?
Was going to say the same thing. Shorter travel, less progressive geom. Is “more sprightly” what you are after?
Of course the answer is so often different tyres and wheels rather than a new bike… but sounds like you’re past that stage.
Weight? well all trail bikes weigh a fair bit. That's the price for all that capability.
I understand the sentiment however - its simply not true, is it?
I love Cotics. I've owned two. When you talking hardtails and 8 tubes, sometimes the weight penalty is worth it.
Once you start to get to more complex structures, the weight penalty is higher. Cotic will tell you all day long is doesnt matter. It does.
It doesnt make a Cotic Jeht a bad bike. They are great But it is a real factor to consider and if for the OP, the weight of the bike is a serious factor, then its not the right bike for him.
I've ridden many, many trail bikes. Of every material. I am a serial bike swapper.
Disregard all the other factors (yes I know thats simplifying things, but weight is the question here...) - A lighter trail bike, is better.
I reckon you need to demo a few bikes and find out what you enjoy riding OP, it feels like you might be throwing good money after bad otherwise.
But I'd also agree with some of the thoughts here that a short-travel FS might be more up your street. I don't think you've said what kind of riding you do?
100%. The GT Sensor does look nice but dont jump into something - there plenty of deals out there. You could even do a frame swap.
I would also look at something a little more shorter travel, theres lot of bikes out there that toe that line between "down country" (yuk) and trail, that will give you a lot more livelines and spring.
New version of the Trek Top Fuel? The previous Gen Norco Optic is a superb bike!
You mentioned bottle placement being a factor so this is potentially a no go, but Orange have some brilliant deals on the Stage Evo currently!
You can fit a bottle in the front triangle of the current Orange bikes via the top tube bolts. Well, you certainly can on the XL.
It feels like you're asking a lot for any full sus trail bike to feel as direct and involving as a rigid Whippit, if you're trying to ride them the same way on similar trails. I've got a mk2 Rocketmax, and there's certain riding its absolute purgatory for, but ride it on the kind of trails its designed for (the nastier, steeper, rockier the better) and its an astonishing thing - no its not "light", but big wheels, chunky tyres, long forks etc all mean it never will be, no matter how much you spend on it - I was pretty astonished to see a Dangerholm full weightweenie build of a Scott Genius (so similar travel/use) and it was only 1.5kg less than my Rocket, despite a huge amount of (expensive) bling.
Likewise - plenty of mates have assorted Deviates, Santa Cruz, Nukeproofs etc and they all come in around the same weight as my Rocket - in fact most are a bit porkier, but then being a skinny get, I can get away with lighter drivetrain and finishing kit than most, although I still have to run chunky rubber as the bike is so damn rapid over the rocks.
Obvious question - have you tried swapping wheelsets beteween the Jeht and the Whippet - or at least optimising your tyre and possibly rim choice on the Jeht to go as light as your riding will allow? If you've got the stock Cotic WTB tyre choice on, they prioritise grip over rolling resistance and if you have a Judge on the back - that has its own gravity well
What tyres are you using on the jeht? The quickest and cheapest way to liven up a bike is getting the right ones for the job.
Mildred has it - the Jeht is a capable bike, and will do anything I want of it. I think I should have got the next size up, but it’s fine, works well, and is a more capable bike than I am as a rider. But the love of it isnt there. The Whippet is totally diferent, so cannot be compared to a trail bike , I was trying to make the point that some bikes you just warm to immediately, others take time, and this Cotic hasnt got any love from me since I bought it. The tyres and wheels have been changed, Minion DHF F&R now, I cannot tell much difference between these and what I have on my spare wheels. I like the (slightly) longer suspension compared to an XC bike, I had a Scott Spark 970 before this one, and the Cotic is a far better bike around Southern Scotland trail centres, especially the off-piste. The GT just looks great to my eyes, so that may be all that is required to make it a better bike for me. It’s also a step up in suspension at both ends, which will help.
I used to have an old Ducati motorbike, 750ss. It was one of the most impractical motorbikes, not great riding position, not particualrly fast, expensive maintenance, but, it was so good looking that I kept it for 15 years, even though there were more capable bikes available - it just gave a buzz when I rode it, which,in a similar vein, this Cotic does not.
When I spend thousands on a bike I need to want it too. Sell the Cotic, buy the GT.
With equivalent builds worse case a FS Cotic will be less than a kilo heavier than a carbon framed FS.
I can get a bottle inside the frame of my Flare Max, hung off the top tube.
For me I like running lots of sag, rides well.
As a follow up, I bought the GT, it arrived on Thursday, and I finally got out on it today. I love it already. The colour is very akin to Bianchi blue/green, in fact my OH went mad and said why have you bought another Bianchi! I only have one, so another one would be fine by me, she did calm down a bit when I said it was a MTB , and my old one would be for sale soon.
As for the GT, it rides well, I cant really put my finger on the differences, but I got two PRs at Ae today, while not even trying, so something is right about it. The suspension seems to be much better, and it just felt a little bit ‘tighter’ when riding it. The dropper lever is rubbish, and will need looking at, as its so stiff. The rear shifter position is also not to my liking, its mounted on the same clamp as the RH brake, and interferes a bit too much with my thumb, so I’ll get a separate mount for that to move it inward. Thats the only criticisms, I really like it.
Nice one! I recommend the Shimano Deore dropper lever as it's cheap, decent quality and works.
Nice one 👍
before splashing more cash on a bracket for your rear shifter, just have a closer look - my Slx & Hope tech 3 has a couple of different mounting holes, meaning I can move the shifter further in or out along the bars by about 1cm, which makes quite a difference.
PICS!
I reckon you need to demo a few bikes and find out what you enjoy riding
...is the right answer.
But then I've just seen you bought the GT. I don't think anything would persuade me to buy a modern GT - such a bland brand these days and now they've gone pop. The biking equivalent of buying a Rover after they went belly up...
Are you sure you want a FS? What about a trail hardtail? BFe?