Cotic full suss musings

I saw one at a DH race at Stile Cop at the back of last year and it looks absolutely stunning 🙂

No idea how it rides... but it looks awesome !

Sounds like a Jeht would be more up your street but it'll still be longer and slacker than your Rocket. Though a FlareMAX is absolutely fine for any non-uplifted UK riding, though I'm sure it'd  it'll still be fine, if a little slower at places like Dyfi!, Mine also went to the Pyrenees and Alps, was great.

However, have you actually ridden a sorted LLS bike? You might actually really like it, to me, they just do everything well. And another steel full sus to look out for, Starling Murmur, I have to mention them as that's what I have now 🙂

I've got one of the last of the Gen2 27.5" Rockets - it's better than I am. I imagine the 29er is much the same but rolls fasterer.

Steel FS bikes are thin on the ground. Pipedream Full Moxie, BTR Pinner, Production Privee Shan No5. I think you'd be lucky to find a second-hand one of any of those to be honest.

So, would a modern 29 Rocket climb as well and do long rides as well my 26 one or have they just made them far too slack now? Or the geometry of a Flare would probably suit me better but it is much shorter travel and I do need a proper skill compensator. How good would a Flare be at the Golfie or maybe even the Mega where a Rocket is perfect?

I ride regularly at the Golfie and the other Tweed Valley locations, Gen2 Flaremax with 132mm on the rear and a -2 headset and Lyrik up front.  Super stable and capable.  Also fine for longer rides, I often have done 40 milers with 5-6,000ft.

But, you could just look at the RocketMax as it weighs barely more and will be even more capable.

So, would a modern 29 Rocket climb as well and do long rides as well my 26 one or have they just made them far too slack now?

There was a recent thread here where @JonEdwards was musing on the challenges of riding a 29" Rocket on longer, all-day stuff, not so much the geometry, I think, but the odd, power-sapping nature of longer travel bikes. He'd found, I think, a 26" Rocket a more convincing all-rounder:

https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/powering-a-longer-travel-29er/

I ride a FlareMAX and it's ace. Deceptively capable on most technical stuff, still very connected and happy with long rides too. I suspect the Jeht would be similar, but maybe slightly less involving. The obvious answer, if you can, is to rock up to one of the Cotic demo days and see what you think.

The obvious answer, if you can, is to rock up to one of the Cotic demo days and see what you think.

Just beat me to it there.

Ideally get Sam to join you and some pals on trails you know well, with a bit of climbing and some steep descents, and ride all three of their FS 29ers.

In terms of alternative steel FSers, Starling and Pipedream are the obvious pair. The new Murmur makes some smart changes over the previous version (which I have).

I went  through exactly this in late '19 early '20. I had a 26" Rocket I'd owned since 2013; demoed 650b Rocket, 29 Flaremax, 29 Rocketmax. (all Longshot) around the Eyam test route. The Jeht wasn't available then

The 650 Rocket felt quite like the 26", just more so. Flaremax was great up to a point, then got quite out of its depth, quite quickly. Possibly solvable with some more suspension tweaking to make it more progressive, but ultimately had the same fork travel as my mkV Soul, so not such a step forward. Rocket Max - imperious. Just smashed the arse out of the rougher sections and I ended up in the fence across the road at the bottom of the trail as I was carrying that much more speed I missed the braking point. Genuinely ridonkulously fast.

So I ended up with the last medium mk2 Rocketmax frame. 3 years on  - its been ridden some. LLS/longshot (mostly) just works. Its the best "steep climbing" bike I've owned. Point it at a nasty pile of rocks, or a hilariously steep fireroad and it'll just winch up it. You won't win races, but if you keep the pedals turning, it'll just keep going. Handling is surprisingly nimble - I think it's slack enough that the flop actually starts to make the steering speed up again as and when you crank some lock on. Obviously through the rough and steep its amazing, but what I was really surprised by this summer was how well it coped with slow speed, trialsy alpine tech-gnar. For those of you who know the Les Arcs area, I managed a clean run down La Varda, which I was well chuffed with.

Downsides. Its a lump. There's very little difference in frame weight across the range, and whether you build a FlareMax, Jeht or RocketMax, they'll have similar build kits. However, especially the Rocketmax, you can hit stuff so damn hard that wheels and tyres need to be at the robust end of the spectrum, and that can kill the all-day pedalability of the bike. Its brilliant for 3-4 hrs, but l need to be in proper good shape to hack it for longer rides. (mines between 32 and 33 lb depending on tyre choice, so not silly heavy - but neither am I)

While it goes up and down great, its not so good at along. I have a few rolling, technical, cliff edge traverses local to me, and the combo of the weight, the squish and the relatively steep seat angle make it a bit like hard work compared to my Soul.

Now - I'd probably look at a Jeht, as the Rocketmax has got a bit bigger again. A Jeht certainly won't be phased by anything the UK can throw at it. Just depends how ultimately fast you want to go downhill!

I’ve got a newish Jeht. I was a little concerned about the slackness before I bought it. Absolutely fine in practice. I’d probably prefer marginally shorter chain stays if I’m being picky. It’s good on the flat and incredible downhill (to the point I can’t imagine needing a longer travel bike). There’s no denying it’s a bit of a lump on the ups. Looks great, quality seems brilliant and cotic were good to deal with 🙂

I like my rocketmax. It's rock solid, incredibly competent, in terms of capability with the right tyres it's better than my old orange 224 dh bike. It pedals fine- not brilliantly, but fine- and can do technical climbs decently, you just really have to boss it or it goes head-wobbly. Basically it can do everything I want it to do, and it can do most of it really well.

I don't love it though. Loved my Hemlock, love my Remedy 29,loved my Soul. Of course it's better than my Hemlock was, miles better, and it's probably better than the Remedy. But whatever tenuous thing it is that makes you bond with a bike doesn't seem to be there and I don't know why. There's definitely something in the feel, it's a little bit lifeless feeling compared to some others. (which is mostly a good thing, it's a sign suspension and geo is working, but it's still less engaging)

But it is definitely a brilliant bike.

Switch9er (when Dan grabs the reigns back)?

I'm going to seriously look at the ti/carbon version when I have spare cash sometime in the future

I've got a FlareMax which I like. But I haven't decided if I love it yet.

It's amazingly capable but I can't help wondering if it's too long or if a mullet or size down might have been better. It feels quite a heft round corners.

This might be because of I'm not riding trails then I'm at the skate park or dirt jumps on a jump bike. So quite a difference in bikes.

It might also be because the FlareMax seems to handle everything I throw at it. Perhaps I don't have the terrain round here to do it's downhill capabilities justice.

I would also prefer shorter chainstays.

I weighed in on the other thread too. RocketMAX is an amazingly capable bike. When it gets steep and lumpy I've never ridden anything anywhere near as good (closest was my old 26er Alpine 160).

As much as I love it when riding it as intended, it's not a great all-rounder though. It's not the weight, just something in the feel that makes it awkward to accelerate at times. Once up to speed it's a monster though.

My left-field suggestion would be a 27.5 Rocket, but run as a 26+ bike (if you can get tyres I guess). That's how I had mine and as a burly 'trail' bike it was brilliant. Almost as capable as the MAX but a better all-day ride, and just as much at home round the local woodsy singletrack as on a big Lakes descent.

Failing that (and I admit it's a niche option), sounds like you want a Jeht.

I have both a FlareMax and a RocketMax. FlareMax is a MK1 so not directly comparable to today's version but my opinion would be If you want an allrounder get the FlareMax. I've ridden mine on all day marathons and and the Alps. It'll do everything very well. The RocketMax I bought specifically for enduros and steep rocky tech stuff, and it's superb at that, but not quite as much fun as the FlareMax on tamer stuff. The RocketMax will climb up anything, but the extra weight and heft will suck the energy out of you. In short if you ride very steep technical trails most of the time on shorter rides of 2-3 hours get a rocketmax. If you ride mostly non-steep  stuff and like all day rides get a FlareMax with a 130-140mm fork. If you ride both technical and non-technical trails equally get a Jeht 🙂

I've got a new RocketMax and I'd echo most of the above. For context, it replaced an Orange Stage 5(2017). I carried over most of the build, so it's got a 160mm fork with 51mm offset, so arguably a bit more manoeuvrable than it would be with a new Zeb or 38.

I do love it. I replaced the Stage 5 because I felt I was taking it out of its (or my) depth on rougher trails and steeper sections. Combined with good enduro tyres, the RocketMax just makes everything controlled. I trust it and It makes me want to go for fun lines rather than just survive.

However, it isn't as fun as the Orange on the fast pedally or pumpy bits, it doesn't feel urgent. That's normal because I've set it up to be plush and it has grippy tyres. It's a compromise I'm happy to make, but if I had the option for a snappy trail bike as well then I would have both. I might experiment with a trail rear tyre and add 5psi for summer trail riding.

I've got a jeht, it climbs fine, you won't have a problem. Just sit and spin. With modern gearing, does anything really climb badly? It's definitely confidence boosting, I can tackle steeper stuff than I ever would have, but that's not too say I'm suddenly a great rider!

I'm yet to properly nail the suspension setup though, I've not got the rear feeling as supple as I'd like, but I do get the occasional bottom out. I've got every intention of renting a shokwiz.

It is heavy, humping it onto the roof of the car is literally a pain. But I don't think it really matters once riding.

It looks ace.

I've got a Jeht too. It's faster than my old Camber 29 (bearing in mind the rider is a 58 year old programmer with no skill). It climbs fine in my area of the north Chilterns

I had the original flaremax (and an original Solaris and Rocket 26). Mate has a rocketmax 29 and he's a big fan. His gets ridden all round here (FoD/Staunton/etc) with some big climbing/miles days. We don't do much along tho, it's quite winch and plummety on the trails we ride. Also been to lots of 'big' alpine places (where I've had my ripmo and after than my giga) and obviously it's great there.

I did try a 27.5 RM after selling my 26. I didn't really get on with it. Can't remember why tho! My Giga (which is double coil sprung and weights the north side of 37lbs) is a surprisingly fun trail bike. It's actually okay on any flat bits, climbs really well (if not quickly) and doesn't feel like too much bike on easier trails. Which is odd considering it's a monster truck.

So as with other posters, it's defo worth getting a ride. We're all very different and one riders experience can be opposite to the others on the same bike.