[Closed] Cotic Escapade - arrived / built

Nice that. Weight sounds a little optimistic 🙂

ohh that is very nice that !!

Floor looks good to 😆

I used kitchen scales... 🙄

Blimey, do they go up to 23lbs? That'd be quite a cake. Anyway with this sort of bike I don't think it matters too much. Does look good.

I shouldn't be rude, but that looks rubbish. It's how I'd imagine a 20 year old Kona or Orange Clockwork would look if you stuck drop bars on it, and daft dropouts. Seems identical to the Roadrat also.

The Soul looks nice though 🙂

Is there much difference to the X?

I think Duckegg blue is becoming a bit of a Cotic cliche, but I fancied it over the purple-ish alternative. Looks nicer than my X's gloss black, but will show marks a lot more I'd guess

Im not too sure of that, the paint finish of my (black) Soul started to look pretty shabby after only a few weeks and my mates bike wasnt finished particularly well either

For a premium product I expected better

It's how I'd imagine a 20 year old Kona or Orange Clockwork would look if you stuck drop bars on it, and daft dropouts.

Funnily enough that is why I like it 🙂

Looks fun, enjoy!

It's how I'd imagine a 20 year old Kona or Orange Clockwork would look if you stuck drop bars on it, and daft dropouts.

The Roadrat and X, and now the Escapade, are 'road' bikes for MTBers who've been MTBing for 15 to 20 years.

It's how I'd imagine a 20 year old Kona or Orange Clockwork would look if you stuck drop bars on it, and daft dropouts.
Funnily enough that is why I like it

Likewise, perhaps we should print age in the interests of full disclosure

brassneck (42) 🙂

It looks like the X has been dropped now - are these things CX-able?

Wonder if you need to be 40+ to like this sort of thing?

mrblobby (40)

I like it.

PJ (23)

Looks very slack and tall, what frame size is it? Looks like the X to me.

MM (20)

spot on miketually
i have raced my X too.
bloody hell im 57

bloody hell im 57

Don't worry Gramps, age is just a number.

Nice, but duck egg blue needs silver finishing kit

Looks pretty tall and I'm not a fan of that crankset. I'm still not convinced by the looks of discs on road bikes either.

Going to give it a light to decent 6.

It does look pretty fun though.

everyone (22)

I didn't realise you were that old nathan 😉

Old as the hills mate. I'm almost at the time limit of being able to leave Loughborough.

Well, to prove the point about old MTBs...

Steel frame are just steel frames aren't they? No - not in my experience.

As you can see, the Soul's frame was treated to a total refurb last autumn. Allowing for what I could have eBayed it for prior to the refurb, it probably cost me the same to refurb it as to buy a new one. But, with the X, I wasn't 100% comfortable with the basic geometry; the Escapade has a lower BB and longer top tube.

[img] [/img]

I did build up my Soul as a super commuter too, just to see whether I could use it as my daily driver (and thereby creating an opportunity to upgrade the MTB in my life). It was really quite different from the X and the Escapade. Fast? Yes - but not what I'd want to ride on a weekend road jaunt.

So - even when they look alike, I don't find that all frames ride alike.

Ben (33) 🙂

I like everything about that apart from the cranks, which wouldn't look good on anything but look double mega awful on that. Sorry! But otherwise very nice.

Front end still looks tall to me, seems to be a lot of head-tube.

Oh dear - the cranks aren't getting much love! They're just 105 5700 jobbies... didn't think they were that bad!!

I think you need a black outer chainring to make it fit with the rest of the kit. Also, bar tape would look better if it matched the saddle or frame colour. Otherwise, very nice!

I like it, is it a size large? I personally much prefer the natty purple version and when funds allow I shall be building one up.
Looks just the job for hopping over kerbs, and blasting down rough tracks on the commute.

Old school Konas never look wrong.

Jim (35)

Looks fun, I do think it would look nice brown bar tape and saddle...

I've been toying with replacing my tourer with one of these.
Are you going to put panniers on it?

DM (33)

Any road bike is fine for hopping down curbs and gavel/lumpy tracks, see Paris-Roubaix for the abuse a road bike can take.

I just don't get the Cotic it looks like it was designed to take suspension forks with such a high front end. I'd have thought a 29er would be as fast over most ground and you wouldn't need another bike, what niche is the Cotic trying to fill? Bizarre. Plus dropping the X makes it look like Joe Burts review of it was right all along. Why didn't they make a proper cyclocross bike as that could have been interesting.

I like that (37)

However tea towels and other cloth items need straightening I can see creases.

The cranks are uglier than me.

What size frame is that?

Shermer75 (39, natch)

It's a Medium (56cm top tube).

I rode it to the station this morning. A full lowdown is hard as I've not managed to fit / adjust the headset properly (resulting in tight steering), but on second impressions it feels like I will need to put a shorter stem on. (No surprise, given that all parts were a swap from the shorter top tubed X).

I used to have a brown saddle on a pre-X frame to match the brown tape, but it didn't look right TBH as the shades of brown were different!

how did the GP4Seasons go on the rims - easy or tight?

Croix De Fer owner here, I am jealous of your mud clearance.

Jamie (34)

I would have thought the high front end is to accommodate the large clearances. Cy has always maintained that with the Roadrat and now the Escapade, he wanted to provide alot of clearance, so that would push up the front end.

I love it. I've just converted my Roadrat into road/drop bar mode as a wet/bad weather road bike and commuter and it rides great and is not that much slower than my proper road bike (Giant Defy Composite). So if the Roadrat is anything to go by then the Escapade should be every bit as good. Having said that, one of the things I like about the Roadrat for the commute and bad weather is the more relaxed handling compared to my Defy. I'm guessing you might lose this with the Escapade as it has a steeper head angle?

Crap. The more I am looking at this, the more I think I might go for the purple....

how easy/fiddly is it getting the front wheel in, when splaying the forks apart whilst trying to align the disc in the caliper?

is the back end still the 132.5mm dropout or did it swap to 135mm (would be more logical if it's disc only now) ?

Looks alright. I'd have black everything on it though.

I did build up my Soul as a super commuter too, just to see whether I could use it as my daily driver

What's the deal with the fork ends? Does anyone other than DT do 9mm bolt through? Have they dumped the forward disc tabs now the wheel is disc brake ejector proof?

I'm afraid I'm another chainset hater. Needs to be black, or the rest of the finishing kit needs to be silver in my view. 🙂

It's a slightly odd beast. I quite like it, but I reckon weight plus annoying dropouts would probably grind me down. I've spent a while trying to use a Salsa Vaya as my main road bike, and have ended up retiring it in favour of something much lighter but with substantial tyre clearance.

Jamie - Member

Croix De Fer owner here, I am jealous of your mud clearance.

Jamie (34)

what he said, except my name isn't Jamie, and i'm 36.

i'm also jealous of your long top tube, and tall head tube (the handlebars on my 60cm are somewhere down by my knees).

s'nice that.

Yes, the [b]>X<[/b] is no more... it was in the Cotic range for 4 years though...

Can you use the Escapade as a cyclocross bike instead?
Yes, but you won't be whipping either wheel out quickly if you were to race it.
And, it's not race light.

is the back end still the 132.5mm dropout or did it swap to 135mm (would be more logical if it's disc only now) ?

Still 132.5mm - apparently there are 130mm hubbed disc wheels out there, although I didn't know that.

What's the deal with the fork ends?

You can squeeze a normal hub in there, or use a 9mm thu axle if your hub can be adapted (eg Hope).
There'll be a new geek page on the Cotic website explaining/showing at some point soon.
I'll post here when it's up.

Have they dumped the forward disc tabs now the wheel is disc brake ejector proof?

Yes.

Kelvin (40)

Been looking for a practical steel road frame for ages.
Price has put me off, especially the price asked for some very basic tubing.

This looks like it could just be spot on.

[b]Wahay![/b]
Cheap.
Steel.
Versatile.
Bound to ride well.
Rack & Guard mounts.
Discs.
Looks great.

[b]Boo![/b]
Same weight as my steel mtb frame! Which was actually cheaper.
The forks look a bit fiddly.

Right, best get saving then. 🙂
The Raleigh Chopper purple looks kewl.

Unless anyone knows of another nice steel road frame with all the mounts for a simlar price?

Frame weight is 2,060g / 4.8lbs - a bit lighter than I expected. Complete bike weight is just under 23lbs.

Is that frame + fork weight? Just wondering, even though weight is not really an issue if buying these sort of bikes, how it compares to the Croix De Fer.

[img] [/img]

Also, as it's hard to make out from pics, does the rear brake cable stay out of the way of a mounted bottle cage ok?

Routing looks the same as on the rat. It's fine with a bottle cage but found I needed a clip attached to one of the cage mounts to keep the cable in place and stop it flapping about annoyingly.

Any chance of a pic or two of the rear tyre clearance around the bottom bracket junction?

Jamie - Member

Is that frame + fork weight?

frame only.

Just wondering ... how it compares to the Croix De Fer.

more or less the same, i'd be amazed if there's more than 50g difference.

(my equilibrium weighs 2050g - i haven't weighed my cdf yet)

I imagine the CdF will be heavier than the Croix De Fer.

I've been looking for something to replace my crosscheck. Loving the purple. I like the look of this frame. I'm just not sure about the rear dropouts on the frame. It looks like a faff to get the wheel out.

Any ideas how much offroad abuse this would take?

Any ideas how much offroad abuse this would take?

I happily take my X down red grade trail centre stuff, and jump off kerbs and the like.

It looks like a faff to get the wheel out.

Define faff?

...genuinely interested, as never had a slot dropout before, and am circling round this frame like a vulture at the mo, but any extra info is welcome.

Edit:

Hmm, after doing a bit of reading on the nets, I think having horizontal dropouts might do my head in.

Grrrr.

Last time I had a horizontal dropout frame (Azonic DS-1) was back in the days of v brakes. My memory is a bit hazy but I remember brake alignment seemed a pain when refitting/if the wheel slipped on a big hit/slipped from a big pedal stroke. I imagine with discs it would multiply the problem. I guess you'd always try and make it as short as possible to ease the relocation, but it will still give a few headaches not getting the discs to rub each time. You also have to consider how to slide the wheel out backwards if you have mudguards fitted.

Same as you Jamie, I've also never had a slot dropout frame before. It just doesn't look as easy as vertical dropouts. I understand you've got to take the skewer out and all. But it just seems a bit of a faff. But that's just my opinion.

Loving the look and design of the frame and fork. It's the dropouts that are stopping me. It's between this and the Surly Straggler for me at the moment

My experience of slotted dropouts was that without some sort of tug nut to get the wheel back in the same place then the back wheel was prone to slipping under high exertion if you didn't have an old school steel skewer done up real tight.

hmmmmm out the X or not? prob not at mo tbh. not enough of a difference. i have kineses carbon forks on my X which would go nicely on one of those though. shame its not lighter as its more road based

reggiegasket - Member

how did the GP4Seasons go on the rims - easy or tight?

The GP 4 Seasons fitted fine on the Mavic TN719 rims; no problems at all. They're 28c and handled the odd bridleway on the X with amplomb.

It's quite a different bike from the X. I did consider repainting it instead of getting an Escapade (like I did with the Soul), but the changed geometry swung it for me.

Horizontal slot drop outs like this aren't really much worse than vertical dropouts, but only if they are paired with a 'withing the rear triangle disc mount'.
The old Azonic didn't have this, but lots have frames have successfully done this - On On for example.

What about issues of the wheel slipping back?

I am assuming to lining up the rear wheel issues are negated if you just slam the wheel to the end of the dropouts every time.

....I do wish their was a vertical option, though. But I guess this keeps the universal rule that, 'every time one finds what they think to be an ideal frame there's always one thing amiss', rule in play 😉

Not had a problem so far with any sort of slipping on the horizontal dropouts on the rat (mine is just slammed to the back of the slot.) And it's not like I have the wheel in and out a lot. If you're running guards just get a couple of the quick release guard mounts ([url= http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/sks-secu-clip-30mm-each-prod33607/?geoc=us ]like the SKS ones on the front[/url]) for the back so you can easily pop the guard out to remove the back wheel. Simple.

What about issues of the wheel slipping back?

I am assuming to lining up the rear wheel issues are negated if you just slam the wheel to the end of the dropouts every time.

With gears, you'd be running it right into the slot. Chain and brake forces will both pull it forward into the slot.

With gears, you'd be running it right into the slot. Chain and brake forces will both pull it forward into the slot.

What about when I do a gnar bunnyhop, fail, and catch my rear wheel on a kerb/stone/orphan? Will this rip the back wheel out and catapult me into the Sun?

What about when I do a gnar bunnyhop, fail, and catch my rear wheel on a kerb/stone/orphan? Will this rip the back wheel out and catapult me into the Sun?

Bmx/dirt jump bikes don't seem to have a problem with it.

It's the dropouts that are stopping me. It's between this and the Surly Straggler for me at the moment

I think the cotic ones look simpler than the surly straggler ones

So its this Cotics new CX-able frame or does that not exist anymore?

I kind of agree Shep. But I'm just not sure. I've got a lot of love for the Surly Straggler. As I liked my Crosscheck and it seems like the best option. But aesthetically the Cotic Escapade looks really nice. On the looks department it's way better than the Straggler. As many people have said the Escapade has that old school Kona look to it.

I suppose the only other thing that bothers me is to run big tires I'm going to have to run a chain tug. But then I'm I really going to put 46c tires in it?

In hindsight, I think I prefer the Duck's Egg.

Incidentally, vid, which observes the Wadsworth Constant and then some, here:

Almost finished on my Escapade build, wondering what length/rise stems everyone is using on theirs?

I note the max recommended length is 120mm on the large frame (fair enough), but combined with Midge handlebar I'm being lead to believe that more rise is better, particularly for off road jaunts.

I'm tempted to go 120mmx10degree (I'm 6ft 1" tall, short legs long torso) , but imagine 100 or 110mm x 10 degrees may do the job nicely.

Trouble is, even with 120mm stems I still see most if not all of the front hub when looking down from the handlebars - the age old measuring technique.

I'm using a 90mm Thomson 9 degree rise stem - just because I swapped to an 80mm zero rise on my Soul. I'm 6'0 with a 32" leg and got a layback post to compensate.

In a further update to my original post:

I'm also now running Hope Pro 2 Evo / Stans Crest rims (with 35c Conti Cyclocross Race tyres due to fitment issues with old 28c on new rims), BB7s and other upgrades.

The wheels have made a big difference to the ride as they're a lot lighter than my old XT / 719 combo.

With the wider treads, I've been riding a lot of gravel paths with no great loss of speed on the road (which isn't a problem for me as I don't do sportives etc).

[img] [/img]

Gah..
I'm running a 719 rear and planning to match the front but ideally id be running crests or similar. So stop teasing me

Also running Alfine so I reckon the weight saving on the rear would've been nice with a Crest.
Or perhaps not.. the Alfine is an anchor.

The TN719 has the advantage of spoke nipple eyelets and a narrower / shorter profile than the Crests. In practice, this means you can run road tyres on the 719, but not on the Crest.

In its defence, the Crest feels a fair bit lighter.

Well I like it.
Loving the tall front end.

I think 9/10deg rise stem looks the way forward.

So I ran 90mm on my Soul, I should aim for 100mm on the Escapade?

So I'm 95% there on my build. Love the colour in the sun light, grape is the way forward!

Handling is as described elsewhere, responsive and MTB like.

[URL= http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae168/keepitsteel/Bikes/20079FDE-DBF4-49F1-B316-1EDCEF1CFCFC_zpsbmbrnm07.jp g" target="_blank">http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae168/keepitsteel/Bikes/20079FDE-DBF4-49F1-B316-1EDCEF1CFCFC_zpsbmbrnm07.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

Slimjim, looks very nice 🙂 How does it handle with the Alfine? Currently thinking about this vs a Day One. Part of that equation for me is should I go Afline or derailleur.

Hello, long-time lurker, first-time poster here.

On paper this bike is exactly what I'm looking for: sloping geo with mtb-like handling, massive tyre clearance, ss & geared options, reasonably priced.

slimjim78, those tyres seem to be close to the clearance limit, what size are they? Any Escapade owners been experimenting with tyres a bit over the recommended maximum, like the Specialized Renegade or Kenda Karma 1.9"?

For my local trails (Netherlands), a 40c semi-slick is plenty, but I'd also like to use it for bikepacking in places where bigger, knobblier tyres might be welcome/required. Maybe even a 650b setup. Would 2.1/2.2" 650b tyres fit?

LBBSST - it's an awesome bike. I love mine in it's fast commuter/long sunday ride guise with 28c gatorskins.

It's got big tyre clearance, but not sure if it'll handle 40c plus - best bet is to mail Cy at Cotic, he'll let you know.

So I guess you chose the Escapade over the Genesis! Alfine or derailleur?

According to the Cotic website the official clearance is 700x46c or 29x1.75" (both 47-622), it should definitely handle 40c plus. Cross Checks can fit some 1.8-2" 29er tyres, and that's officially a 42mm clearance frame, so the Escapade may be able to handle 1.9 Karmas that are just a bit too big for the Cross Check.

It's interesting (and reassuring) to hear that people are happy with it as a commuter/road cruiser, despite the weight and retro mtb feel. Seems most owners have set them up that way: not many pictures on-line of "monstercross" Escapades. But it suggests an Escapade with big, light-weight, low-profile 29er tyres wouldn't be torturous to ride on roads.

Dragging this up, looking at this bike with the option to do a little off roading.

Would you say that this is better than the Genesis or Singular?

I've really enjoyed mine, been a perfect do everything road/cross/touring bike.

I am however thinking of selling mine, as I've just bought a separate cross race bike, so want to go for something a bit more road focused rather than do everything!

If your interested in a medium frame/full bike drop me a message

I thought it was about time that I updated the thread with some build notes, after 2 years of Escapade ownership - and lots of fettling with different set-ups!

[b]Becoming more durable[/b]

After selling my Stooge in spring 2015, I transferred across its Hope Pro2 / DT XR400 29 wheels. Although a little heavier than the Pro 2 Evo / Crest wheelset it was wearing before, I'd had enough of the Crest's incredibly difficult tyre seating - with the idea that the DT rims would allow me to run narrower tyres than the 35c Conti Cyclocross Race I'd been using. I also fitted some SKS mudguards.

In the end, though, I plumped for some wider 37c Conti TopContact 2 tyres - motivated by a single week of commuting with no less than 4 punctures... and the difficulties of removing the rear wheel with the combination of slot dropouts and mudguards. I also added some 44cm Fizik "bull"-shaped drops: I wasn't quite convinced by their shape, but did like the width.

With those changes, the Escapade had became more focused on durability and it was a great companion for long tours - including Lon Las Cymru - in 2014 and 2015.

[b]Singlespeed drop-bar[/b]

Related to the above changes, by Christmas 2015 the itch to get another lighter bike had overcome me - and I built up a Kinesis 4S Disc in fairly Bantam-weight spec. I wasn't sure whether this would replace the Escapade at first: the 4S Disc has rack mounts, mudguard mounts and takes 28c tyres comfortably with these.

But I thought the 4S was simply too nice to commute on in the winter, so I sold the Escapade's 105 5700 drivetrain in January 2015 and built it up with chain tugs, fat chain, singlespeed brake levers and an Alfine 170mm / 39T chainset.

With me doing more commuting than ever to a single place of work (a 15-mile round trip), this was probably the most satisfying build I've done yet of the Escapade and it really helped improve my pedalling.

[b]Flat bar[/b]

Unfortunately, neither the 4S disc nor singlespeed Escapade were going to be quite as suitable for some of the things that the 2014-15 geared Escapade build could do: notably comfortable touring and Tagalong duties.

With this in mind, I looked at options like a Long Haul Trucker or Roadrat - before deciding to experiment with a flat bar build for the Escapade:

[img] [/img]

This is how the bike has been for the last week: built as a 1x10 with Zee shifters, Deore mech, 11-36 cassette, 600mm flat bars and an inverted 110mm stem. I looked around to see how the old "short" version of the Roadrat (Escapade's granddad) had been adapted and there seemed to be plenty of builds that ignored or overcame the short top tube issue.

I commuted 60 miles on it this week, plus a few outings to the shops. I wasn't sure about it at first and found the position a bit alien after 2 years on drops - but as the week went on I grew happier.

I'm not sure where it's headed next, but I hope that my experiments at least show how versatile the Escapade can be!

Is anybody out there running a 650b Road Plus set up on their Escapade. Would love to know what wheelset you're running .

Yep got mine built up at the weekend using a cheap/heavy set of mavic xm319 on deore hubs and the horizon 47c's ,took it for a blast down the camel trail in Cornwall and was pleasantly surprised at how well it handled both on and off road .Will try and post a few pics up in the next few days