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Let the frothing commence!
Not convinced I’m afraid. One of the USP’s of Cotic for me has always been the skinny steel tubing. While that’s obviously incompatible with battery storage it just doesn’t look like a Cotic personally.
Biscuits at the ready.
You're gonna get very fat on the biscuits - it's gonna be available end of 2023 "at the earliest"
I'll wait for the Bird/Ethic. Cotic pricing has gone a bit premium for the likes of me. No doubt this will be Ducati money.
Looks decent though.
This seems like Cotic's "Porsche Cayenne" moment. They have to produce a horrible monstrosity so they can stay afloat and continue to make the other bikes that enthusiasts love?
It seems inevitable that any reasonably-sized bike company will have to start offering eBikes - can't fault 'em for trying to survive.
“ While that’s obviously incompatible with battery storage”
Can they not slide the cells into the long skinny tubes, like loading a pump-action shotgun / maglite? 🤔
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. I like like Cotic and still own a Solaris. That’s clearly not aimed at me nor to my taste but I hope it helps to keep them going.
Hang on, I don't think they've actually said they're doing ebikes to stave off bankruptcy, have they?
They seemed to be selling plenty of bikes pre-Covid and I presume they shifted everything they could get in stock in the lockdown boom.
Wonder if that pic is a small? Looks a bit high and short, but perhaps that's a trick on the eye 'cos of the whacking great downtube?
Hang on, I don’t think they’ve actually said they’re doing ebikes to stave off bankruptcy, have they?
Be off with you and your sensible comments! 🙂
https://singletrackmag.com/charged/2021/11/29/a-cotic-e-mtb-is-in-development-and-its-not-steel/
Charged doesn't have the Forum comments thingy yet, so it's not shown up here.
Graaaaaaaaaaaargh!1!!1! ITs nOt steLE!1!!! etc... Looks good, I would like to have a go on one.
You’re gonna get very fat on the biscuits – it’s gonna be available end of 2023 “at the earliest”
Should slot nicely into the target demographic by then *runs and hides*
Morning guys, I actually rode this prototype a couple of weeks back after riding the Rocket Mullet. It was only an hour or so riding locally to Cotic, but we plan to get out on a longer ride soon. Rides just like a Cotic, only it's faster uphill 👍👍
Should slot nicely into the target demographic by then *runs and hides*
megalolz
It has steel seatstays still 😁
Ooh look. Another eBike.
Can they not slide the cells into the long skinny tubes, like loading a pump-action shotgun / maglite? 🤔
D-cells?
Seem to be a lot of these smaller companies working on bikes that will launch end of 2023 or later - that seems a long time considering how fast technology moves - waiting for stock of EP8 motors and batteries, and those designs are already a couple of years old. W'll probably see bigger more established brands launching bikes based on new generation motors and batteries by them - especially Bosch who are solely focused on existing customers and taking on nobody new.
Bit like the electric car market, I think a lot of stuff launching right now will be very quickly obsolete.
“that seems a long time considering how fast technology moves”
I’m fairly certain that battery and motor technologies don’t move fast, with the former having been the major problem holding back electric vehicles for decades. It’s not about how many transistors you can squeeze into a chip, it’s about battery chemistry and materials science.
Well, when I say "fast" - I'd expect a new Bosch motor by 2024 (and the existing one is arguably better than the Shimano EP8 as it is)
Swap "fast" for "still evolving", if you prefer. Just mean that it's a tricky market for both consumers and small companies right now.
Couple of interesting bits from the Q & A on the Cotic site;
- Shimano are the only one who will sell motors without a commitment of "100s or 1000s per year"
- For the more moaning minnies, I though this was a salient point "...and Cy's ridden more with his wife in the last two weeks with her having the ebike that in years. That last one alone makes it a reason to build one on a personal level."
timmys
– Shimano are the only one who will sell motors without a commitment of “100s or 1000s per year”
Dan/Ben on the Bird eBike thread said the same, that Bosch won't even take on new customers at the moment, regardless of size.
Interesting piece on Pinkbike, which must have prompted this morning's reveal by Cotic...
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/burning-question-why-havent-some-bike-brands-released-an-emtb-yet.html
Here's the real burning question though: Would Knolly be the only brand whose ebike looked better than it's standard bikes?
Steel is real
Aluminium is real
Batteries are real
Not the cotic for me, I'd like to try a flaremax though.
Looks good and the bits that are weird are probably all prototyping parts like that motor protector and the shock mounts.
Good to see some foresight with the larger battery, 504Wh is just too small for the normal stuff nowadays, yes it'll get you the miles, but group rides with folk on 630s or 700s, that'll be hard!
Standover looks very nice as well, something that ebikes always seem to mess up, they push that top tube upwards to accommodate a bottle mount or the likes.
@chiefgrooveguru
Surely then the tubes would only need to be fat enough to fit a stack of D cells in it 🙂
I’d take increased standover over room for a bottle inside the triangle any day.
If they have to be heavy (which they do) then I want it as low and manoeuvrable to help me chuck it around.
Looks terrible IMO but it's easier to count the ebikes that don't rather than do. Bleugh.
Looks terrible IMO but it’s easier to count the ebikes that don’t rather than do. Bleugh.
People used to say that about 29ers. Remember the term 'clown bikes'?
People hate everything new then get used to it.
I hate the look of many things on bikes, my own ebike is a horrific looking thing, but i don't see it when i'm sat on it and using it, i just throw a tarpaulin over it when i get home to shield my eyes from the horror.
As for 29ers, still a clown bike, but the above applies as well for them.
People used to say that about 29ers.
And FS bikes, christ, the roadies are still moaning about disc brakes.
but will they call it the hemlock or is it going to be a TurboJeht or RocketBooster
I’d be interested in the work in progress name options. I’m crap at coming with names and would probably end up suggesting things like Bolt, Volt and Jolt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion_thruster
Flare Ion
Jeht Ion
Rocket Ion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulsed_plasma_thruster
Flare Pulse
Jeht Pulse
Rocket Pulse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcjet_rocket
ArcJeht
If Bosch aren't taking on new customers and Shimano have long lead times, why aren't more brands using Bafang or Yamaha or any of the other motors? I know Starling are messing with something new but Starling are a bit different. Seems we're designing in a monopoly of motors from the start.
People used to say that about 29ers.
And FS bikes
Yeah, but at least they were still bikes. And nowhere near as minging.
Cy must be so excited to have an excuse to make a bike with even longer chainstays:) I hope to be surprised with 440mm or even a 435/445 chip.
As much as I loved my Hemlock slackboy I don't think it's a name that's carried much credit through the years 🙂 What else would go well alongside Rocket- a Zoomer? A Bam? A Radge? Maybe not a Steamer.
I'm a bit on the fence about it being, well, uncoticky. See, yes we identify them with steel- though I've had a ti cotic and an all-aluminium one, I still think of steel. But I'm really not that convinced that my Rocketmax is better for having steel in it. It's pretty ruggedly handsome, it rides well, but I've never thought "I'm glad this isn't aluminium or carbon" or really "this is an obvious descendent from my old Soul". For the Solarismax it's definitely still a thing
honourablegeorge
Full MemberSeem to be a lot of these smaller companies working on bikes that will launch end of 2023 or later – that seems a long time considering how fast technology moves – waiting for stock of EP8 motors and batteries, and those designs are already a couple of years old.
I thought that too, these are huge lead times in a still pretty immature market, must be bloody difficult for bike companies especially smaller ones. Imagine if on the day you finalise your prototype or even worse the container hits the docks and then Shimano go "we've just released a new motor that's 11% more X and 7% less Y and it doesn't fit on the old mounts."
That's the ugliest bike I've seen. Hope they've beefed up the seat stays to cope with the extra weight 🤣
Not my Cup off tea but you can’t blame them for wanting to access a profitable market that’s only going to get bigger. I wish them luck with it
next we need the non ebike drop link in AL.
Weirdly, I quite like the way it looks. A bit odd but deffo still a Cotic shape to my eyes. To these borderline fanboy eyes, that's a good thing.
By the time they refine the design a bit I might [a] be old enough to need an ebike and [b] had long enough to save up to afford a Cotic ebike.
The name? Got to be Booster surely?
Well, when I say “fast” – I’d expect a new Bosch motor by 2024 (and the existing one is arguably better than the Shimano EP8 as it is)
Even so, presumably they'll be compatible with other motors of the same brand? So if Shimano release a new version then cotic/bird/etc could just switch their order to whatever shimano are then going to make.
That and surely we're at the point of very diminishing returns. They can't get more powerful due to the legal limits, there's only so much torque you can put out before drivechains wear out in rides not merely hundreds of miles. Just leaves a few percent here or there on efficiency/range, which will mostly be the battery rather than the motor.
I like the motor ‘bash guard’ plate underneath it. Do many ebikes have these?
What happened to the Scottish start up that was developing a new eBike motor platform? I think David Hemming was working for them a while back…?
Something about the look strikes me as front off a size large bike, and rear off a different size small bike. I think it's the combination of top tube angle and all the tubes apart from the downtube having that slender Cotic steel look. And the dropper being down.
Good grief this is depressing. I've just had my Rocket repsrayed and had planned on getting the new headbadge and decals for it, but think I'll steer clear now. Are there any mountain bike companies who are not making these monstrous lumbering mx-lite machines for the lazy and overweight who can't be bothered to put the effort in?
/huff
That and surely we’re at the point of very diminishing returns. They can’t get more powerful due to the legal limits, there’s only so much torque you can put out before drivechains wear out in rides not merely hundreds of miles. Just leaves a few percent here or there on efficiency/range, which will mostly be the battery rather than the motor.
Good question.
As someone who's never ridden an eeb and just reads a few reviews here and there, the impression I get is that the Shimano EP8 motor has an issue with noise - that it rattles annoyingly.
And there's obviously improvements to be made in reliability still, for all the manufacturers.
One of the best comments in that Pinkbike feature was the bike brand owner who said that in 10 years we'll look back at the current ebikes as horribly primitive and unrefined.
thisisnotaspoon
That and surely we’re at the point of very diminishing returns. They can’t get more powerful due to the legal limits, there’s only so much torque you can put out before drivechains wear out in rides not merely hundreds of miles. Just leaves a few percent here or there on efficiency/range, which will mostly be the battery rather than the motor.
Agree power probably doesn't have far to go, but they can be lighter, more efficient (and maybe get away with smaller, lighter batteries as a result), and above all else, more reliable.
Are there any mountain bike companies who are not making these monstrous lumbering mx-lite machines for the lazy and overweight who can’t be bothered to put the effort in?
/huff
For an e-bike I think that looks as alright as an e-bike can look.
People used to say that about 29ers. Remember the term ‘clown bikes’?
People hate everything new then get used to it.
Small people might have but for us High Tower's it was nice to be able to buy a bike that didn't look like a gate. Saying that, some did look a bit weird until the geometry was sorted out.
Either way, the vast majority of ebikes look terrible, this one included. Be interesting to see what manufacturers do to get round this and what ebikes look like in the future.
as alright as an e-bike can look
Agreed - and there is no higher possible praise.
The stealth black helps IMO, but that may be a prototype thing.
The pic from the start of the thread.
If it's Sam's bike/size then it'll be an ickle one, be good to see the one Cy is riding as he's a normal sized human 🙂 I reckon the proportions will be better.
“One of the best comments in that Pinkbike feature was the bike brand owner who said that in 10 years we’ll look back at the current ebikes as horribly primitive and unrefined.”
Or possibly one of the least well-informed comments?
I’ve only ridden one ebike, the one I bought three years ago and that gets used for most commuting and a lot of my MTB duties. The drivetrain has durability issues for sure - am hoping the new Shimano stuff will solve that - but otherwise I struggle to understand how it could be made to feel primitive and unrefined. It’s very quiet, very intuitive to ride, syncs with an app to adjust battery use (not that I’ve ever bothered with that), minimal drag (I’ve yet to feel it) when unpowered.
Reliability and durability are the ebike problems. Based on a second generation Levo, the actual riding experience is excellent. Since I added hideous mudguards it now looks no worse than a very pretty full-sus would with the same awful(ly effective) mudguards…
I doubt these forthcoming ebikes will be out of date when they finally launch and I like that excellent small companies such as Cotic and Bird are doing them. Banshee’s anti-ebike position on the same pinkbike article should sell quite a lot of frames too, so win-win!
“ People used to say that about 29ers. Remember the term ‘clown bikes’?”
“Clown bikes” never made any sense - circus bikes are tiny with tiny wheels! If you want to see a clown bike, look at early photos of Ben Cathro on a DH bike. Voila!
Good grief this is depressing. I’ve just had my Rocket repsrayed and had planned on getting the new headbadge and decals for it, but think I’ll steer clear now. Are there any mountain bike companies who are not making these monstrous lumbering mx-lite machines for the lazy and overweight who can’t be bothered to put the effort in?
/huff
Lol, you okay princess?
What happened to the Scottish start up that was developing a new eBike motor platform? I think David Hemming was working for them a while back…?
That was Freeflow. If you look at the Pinkbike article mentioned earlier, you'll see that's what the Starling is using. But requires some funky gearing.
Also from Scotland, we're (relatively) close to the launch of the combined motor/gearbox from Intra-Drive. I think this could be one of the most interesting developments in the ebike sector we'll see for a while. Moving away from the derailleur system makes so much sense.
Wow.
That's ugly.
Ugly A. F.
interesting. a long way from Cotic USP, and puts them up against canyon, yt and all them lot.
Moving away from the derailleur system makes so much sense.
Weird. This side of the forum is filled with people whinging that "standards" keep changing, and yet here's the part of most bikes that apart from numbers of gears has been kept pretty much the same for what 20 years? And you have to ask yourself; Why is that?
Anyway, E-Cotic. Cool, I can totally see why Cy would get into that. He's probably been asked hundreds of times by Cotic fans why one isn't available already. As a business you'd be foolish to miss out on a part of the cycling market that's only going to get bigger.
Andi has a first ride video up
nickc.
Weird. This side of the forum is filled with people whinging that “standards” keep changing, and yet here’s the part of most bikes that apart from numbers of gears has been kept pretty much the same for what 20 years? And you have to ask yourself; Why is that?
EBike motors already have gearing in them, makes sense to combine in that scenario