You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Woth all this longer lower slacker business Cotic seem to lead the way, or at least be a big part of it. The review of these L.L.S. bikes suggest theyre really fast, but i want something playful, fun and nimble. The bfe hits the spot as affordable and all my components will transfer over (rare these days!) But is it fun. Itll be longer than my Pinnacle iroko and im just not sure thats what i want/need even if the marketers tell me it is!
It’s a great bike and loads of fun. I use mine for everything from street riding and pump tracks with my lad on his BMX, racing around in the woods and long cross country rides.
Mines fun too. I've had several hard tails in the past (from Cotic and Stanton among others) and it compares very favourably.
Judging by the geometry charts the BFe is nowhere near as long as the new SolarisMax and RocketMax, it should be far more playful with the comparatively shorter reach.
The L SolarisMax is about 7mm longer in reach than the bfe both with 140mm forks. So there really isn’t much in it.
Anyway, this bike is definitely playful.
https://m.pinkbike.com/video/492139/
Oh FFS how on earth do you post an instagram picture.
Yes! Finally.
And in answer to the original post its a fantastic bike, feels surprisingly normal for such a long bike, but also astonishingly capable. Maybe the best way to describe it is the envelope for normal is just waaaaay larger than you expect.
The pic above is with 26 inch wheels and fork which may have a little to do with it.
Soul owner here. Yup mine's playful, wanting to pop off every little lump I can find, feels much more balanced than my old Cove HJ
That guy is definitely going big in that video!
I think i need a test ride. These long bikes look super stable which is great for fast and steep but down in Devon its often not that steep but can be tight and need maneouverability is key
I'm going to have to be the single voice on dissent on this one. I've had a BFe for 6 months and while its great when its going fast I'm reluctant to call it a fun bike. I've got a small frame and the extra length up front suits as I'm 6ft 1 however the the chainstays are just way too long. I'm used to having hardtails that do everything from dirt jumps, bmx tracks, some short xc, dh. My favourite frame in this sense was the charge blender, nice slack front end with shortish stays. The Bfe just has no pop in comparison. Even doing a lazy hop up a kerb is challenging with that rear wheel hanging out so far behind the centre of gravity, it just doesn't want to leave the ground. Manuals are difficult to initiate but obviously once you hit that balance point it stays there like a rock.
I cant complain a great deal as I specifically bought it for 4X racing and on a rough balls-out 25mph+ 4X track it really is good. however I still find it disturbing when i hit a bmxtrack type of jump with no lip and it just feels dead.
I'm no expert, but surely being over six feet tall on a small is quite outside the expected user. I get that you bought it for 4X but maybe it's just not designed for that anymore, and the small is instead specifically a longshot mtb for short people.
Another vote for loving them. I'm 5'8" and have a large (my other bike is a geometron and this was the nearest I could get size wise to match) and it's a great thing. I'm a fairly playful rider and spend lots of time popping/jumping bits of trail and find this great. I was at the pumptrack last night on the way home from work on mine.
@rossburton I don't think so, I've been riding hardtails in this manner for 15 years and its plenty roomy. Seeing as Cotic themselves have people promoting this bike riding in skateparks and doing downhill races onthem what is the expected user?
The specific question was "is it a fun bike?" and my opinion is no, its too stable. Would riding a larger frame have changed my opinion?
I do very much understand what chimpley is saying though. playful fun and nimble... it's very subjective. To say you take it to a pumptrack is great but yes, i could take a DH bike to a pumptrack....
I'm selling my 16.5" mk1 Switchback frame if you're interested. It's more playful, fun and nimble than the old shape (small) BFe 650B it replaced.
@chimpley - the updated BFe26 has 8mm shorter stays than the BFe - bigger wheels result in longer stays/rear - in addition, BB drop is different with different wheel sizes, which effects much of what you describe - sounds like the right bike for you after reading what your requirements are is a BFe26 (or another 26" wheeled bike, there are still a few being built, but not many).
If you like how 26" wheeled hardtails ride, then ride one!
You don't have to go bigger if you prefer smaller.
You're right, not much difference in sizing. I always just look at the biggest and the SolarisMax has an XL option.
Ravingdave I ride it a lot in very tight and twisty Stanmer park, Brighton. It's in that sort of stuff that I find it most fun to ride. A demo is always a good idea and Cotic do demos all over the place so you should be able to sort one out.
@Kelvin like i said, I bought it for rough fast 4X tracks which it excels at. Would I recommend it someone who wants to go all out down big dh tracks? yes absolutely, its a great bike. Would it be the best choice for pump tracks and general mucking about? no, a shorter bike would be better.
Its not wheel size that's the issue. the first post was asking about longshot geometry and if its fun. I find the extra length takes away the liveliness. A 26" frame with longshot geometry would probably also feel a bit dead as well.
Which 275 hardtail has the characteristics you refer to? Bigger wheels need longer stays and increased BB drop… irrelevant of the longshot geom. The extra reach of the longshot geom itself does not remove "fun"… bikes that fit when using diddy super short stems are more fun… not less… you could argue.
Switchback has 415mm stays with 650B wheels.
The extra reach of the longshot geom itself does not remove “fun”… bikes that fit when using diddy super short stems are more fun… not less… you could argue.
It does depend on your personal definition of fun but I think there are quite a few who would argue otherwise and there's a limit on how short you can go with a stem (dependent on bar width/sweep/rise) before it buggers up the way a bike feels.
This is interesting. Im after a bike that is easy to lift/pick up over trail obstacles easy to manual, pop and jump. Outright speed is not the main goal. It seems that the longer the bike the more stable it is, but less playful it is. With bikes growing in length (and im not picking at Cotic) the harder it will be for less skilful riders to engage with them? Other than become a high speed 'copilot'?
Or the opposite. Modern mountain bikes suit new riders better than ever.
Wow. 6'+ on a small and 5'8" on a large! It just goes to show that fit preference is a huge factor in fun quotient.
Also why cotic probably don't put standover on their website!
This is interesting. Im after a bike that is easy to lift/pick up over trail obstacles easy to manual, pop and jump. Outright speed is not the main goal. It seems that the longer the bike the more stable it is, but less playful it is. With bikes growing in length (and im not picking at Cotic) the harder it will be for less skilful riders to engage with them? Other than become a high speed ‘copilot’?
Pretty much. There has to be a trade off somewhere and this-
Or the opposite. Modern mountain bikes suit new riders better than ever.
is a [i]little[/i] disingenuous. They only 'suit' new riders because they flatter a (relative) lack of skill and are harder to manual/hop/crash because they're so stable/dull*.
* delete as applicable depending on your point of view 😆
Well I just typed a long geeky reply and this %&*&^&*ing forum just ate it. Again.
So just have some more Camus/BFe action (which also happens to be one of the better feel good MTB clips I've seen and my local riding)
I find my Longshot Soul needs a bit more initial pop to get it lifting, but once its up its SOOO much better balanced than the older bikes. I'm no #lovesbackwheel god, but this really does flatter me.
At slower speeds they help new riders… if that's not you, to have more "fun" … go faster, or perhaps take on trails that challenge you more.
At slower speeds they help new riders...
How, exactly? Please refrain from using [b]marketing[/b] [i]speak[/i]. 😉
Well, you yourself said that they were more stable and were harder to crash. That's a good start.
Well it’s not a bfe but I do have a longshot cotic (FlareMax) and am a talentless idiot who lacks confidence, so maybe I can shed a bit of light on this one. Yes the more stable bike encourages me to go faster and that on its own makes some things easier, but it’s more than that. The stability gives me confidence and because I feel secure I’m much more willing to throw my body about which means that I actually find it easier to move the bike about on the trail. I know it’s a bit counterintuitive, but I can only say how it feels. Far from the more stable bike turning me into a co-pilot it’s actually the opposite. It encourages me to play around. There is enough length that I can actually feel the effect of weighting the front or the rear wheel in corners, for example. Of course a more skilled rider can feel that on a shorter bike too, but I couldn’t. In fact it was the shorter bike that tended to turn me into a co-pilot as I would just hang on and pray that I’d get down alive.
As I say, I don’t doubt that more skilled and more confident riders than me may prefer something different. But it’s not just a case of the longshot (and similar) geometry making things easy and dull.
Happy BFe owner here! I'm 5'10" initially I went for a large and now have a medium. both sizes worked well, but the medium works better for me. It's stable enough at speed but a bit more throwaround. I would guess that the recommended fork range of 120-160 will have as big an impact as frame size...
However the best thing about it is the feel, whether its steel or Cotic magic its the best hardtail I've had by far!
Try one and talk to Cotic about sizing.
Ive followed your thread roverpig, your flaremax looks lovely. I get your point, its well put. A bike that makes you feel confident will make you push more therefore making you a better rider.
Thanks @ravingdave Yes that’s pretty much it, although it’s not just that you can push harder, it also gives you the freedom to play.
I've got a Longshot BFe. Large. I'm 180cm.
It's a brilliant fun bike for hooning around trails on.
If you want something 'playful, fun and nimble' I would size down for sure. The large is stable and fast, but it's not gonna be as poppy as a smaller bike.
What length chainstays has the 650b bfe got? I’m on a 650b Vitus sentier vrx which I bought for the same purpose as the op - do it all including messing about on pumptracks. My fs bike is long and slack and I wanted a hardtail to be very different.
With a 66 degree head angle / 425mm chainstays / 432mm reach (medium frame - 17”) and room for a 150mm dropper (I’m 5’9) it’s a lot of fun. Ridden in on local pedally trails in bristol, steeper more technical slow stuff, a couple of pump tracks, jumping off steps etc and also a half days uplift are Flyup 417 where it ripped round corners so well. It’s just so poppy - the front lifts easily for manuals etc.
Not saying you should necessarily buy one - more I get where you’re coming from that you don’t want something too stable and solid that smashes the big rocky stuff but is less fun for just messing about on.
Also on my list when I was looking were the Sonder Transmitter and the Orange Clockwork 137 - so might be worth checking those out too.
.
just been looking at the Stanton Switchback - shorter chainstays, shorter reach, possibly more playful with a better quality steel frame (all 631) they look lovely, but are a bit pricey. anyone had any experiences?
Switchback is a lovely bike. I had the older mk1 version, I ended up swapping to try out the 29er sherpa and regretted the change. I wanted to swap back to a switchback but couldn't afford the mk2, then a cheap bfe came up. So far I've been really happy with it, my usage is a winter bike around Calderdale so is generally spinning up steep roads and then relatively techy descents. It's pretty stable, I do find it fun but would agree with others above that the switchback is easier to get the front wheel up, hop and such.
Ultimately both are great bikes. If money were no object I'd probably buy the stanton but as it is I've no regrets on the bfe.