[Closed] Cotic

Cancel your order? See what happens. A few years ago I ordered and paid up front in full for a Orange Five. I was told 3-4 weeks. 5 months later it arrived. A week after asking for my money back.

By enquired do you mean bought, paid deposit etc...

Cy is a really nice guy and i'm sure he's doing as much as he can to sort frames out for people that want them, as soon as they have an idea of manufacture and/or shipping dates he'll be in touch.

I offered to pay, and they said they would let me know when they were in. Maybe they knew that they were going to be a year or more in the coming?

I know Cy's reputation as a good guy, but I find the 'who knows' response really irritating.

Yeah, i believe it would be a load better if they took your money and made up a proposed delivery date which they couldn't meet and then strung you on for a while. By being honest with you, it assists you to make an informed choice on your next bike.

Use the opportunity to be glad you didn't get one, and buy a proper full sus instead, which isn't made out of flexy, heavy steel.

Aside from that I simply don't understand how they can't have a rough idea of delivery date.

Don't call me Shirley!

I'll get my coat...

I must admit to being less than impressed when I had questions about my X in 2011. Despite the bike being slightly different to its spec the response was roughly sorry but that's what you have got.
Nothing major so much as "don't make a fuss over little things"

smell_it - Member

Yeah, i believe it would be a load better if they took your money and made up a proposed delivery date which they couldn't meet and then strung you on for a while. By being honest with you, it assists you to make an informed choice on your next bike.

Er, ironically, I can't make an informed choice about my next bike because I don't know when one of my shortlisted frames is likely to be available, and the manufacturer has absolutely no idea either.

Gosh, the days must be long for you.

Just sayin big fella! x

you wait nine months for a baby why not a bike?

Part of me is thinking "buy something else" but another part of me is thinking "wait until the mud has gone, the hardtail is better for the next few months anyway!"

Yeah, I'm going to buy something different, I'd come to that conclusion. It's a shame though.

On a recent skills course the instructor told me the reason for delay in the frames was that production of them was moving to the UK and this process takes a while to set up.
Be nice to see them produced here if they can keep the rrp the same.

I had the same response when I ordered a Santa Cruz Highball this summer. Turns out the importer had no idea when the frame was being shipped even after I was given 2 previous dates. Cancelled and bought a Yeti and am very glad I did.

If I was in the market for a rocket I would wait. I can only imagine it is a fricking brill bike, all the reviews like it, and my limited experience of BFe's tells me Cotic make shit hot bikes. Just wait. Cy pretty much started the steel bike revolution and he will be here for a good long while yet. everyone has hiccups..

. Cy pretty much started the steel bike revolution

ooof i think there'll be a queue of people who dispute that, headed by a certain Mr Richards and his all white workhorse from the distant past*

* i'll allow it if you are only recently into MTB and can't remember anything from the last century

I have been into mtb since 1989, but I musta missed that. The first long travel steel hardtail I ever was aware of (like in the modern era, cos I have still got my 1991 steel rockhopper) was the Soul. What is this white workhorse you speak of, I want to know..

[i]What is this white workhorse you speak of, I want to know..[/i]

serious?

Umm yes? Try and avoid being condescending in your description, I did not know brant/on one existed until 2006. Or this forum for that matter (I think I found it in 2007?)

Gonna stick up for Cotic here.

You literally do get the answer of 'we don't know' when working with vendors.

It's sadly not as simple as paying someone to make you something and it turns up at an agreed time etc sometimes.

It's better him saying he doesn't know of that is indeed the case. The alternative is he makes something up and you get angry when it doesn't materialise.

I might be talking out my arse but I thought I saw a Cotic email saying that they were having QC issues and bikes had to be scrapped/repainted? And that they just and to wait for a new production slot?

Would be a pretty reasonable explanation.

I don't think Cotic take deposits, only payment when they are ready to ship. I was looking at a potential non standard item which I offered to pay up front for and they declined this (in the end it turned in a standard product after all).

If you want to talk about long lead in times (possibly after deposit?) look at Nicolai.... But I think most people seem to accept that that's what you have to go through if you want a particular bike.

I agree that it's not ideal but sometimes that's how them cookies crumble.

The fact you're getting quite irritated 'shirley' means you really want the bike.

If you choose another wont you always be wondering 'what if?'

Sometimes the best things in life are worth waiting for.

I'd be vexed if I was waiting for one- but if Cy could get you a bike tomorrow, you know he would and if he couldn't do that but he could tell you exactly when it will be, he'd do that do. "We don't know" isn't a happy answer but would you rather get a lie like most companies would do?

(if so, then I can promise you delivery on the 3rd of November. Deffo.)

I still can't afford one so I will stick with my rolling wreckage- kept moving by Cotic's unbelievable aftersales support.

dragon - Member

buy a proper full sus instead, which isn't made out of flexy, heavy steel.

Or buy a Rocket, which is made out of not-heavy, not-flexy steel. Dearie me.

It's better him saying he doesn't know of that is indeed the case. The alternative is he makes something up and you get angry when it doesn't materialise.

No the OP established it isn't. The not knowing seems to paralyse the process of making a choice.

I don't know either, and possibly by the time I get my Rocket actually built all the bits waiting to be hung on it will be 'so last year' but I probably wouldn't ride the new bike until spring now anyway. Plus I'm so sure it's exactly what I want I haven't really thought about an alternative frame.

As said, pretty sure if Cy could give a date he would and I reckon these threads are as frustrating for him as they are for us (except for the fact he actually does have a Rocket to ride).

Designed here, manufactured there. I'm sure Cy would love to be able to provide his prospective customers with firm delivery dates but it would seem that Cotic, along with many other bike companies, can't dictate the supply chain.

I don't think this difficulty with supply chains is uncommon - I don't think Cotic is the first or last small bike company to have difficulty getting a bacth produced when initially promised. I am sure they like it even less than you do - I really hope that we consumers support them and companies that charge a bit but produce here in the UK. Some things are worth spending a bit more on.

The QC issues were on other models, Rocket wasn't mentioned. Paul Dexter explained the change of supplier was intended to get more frequent supply, but it was taking longer for the new supplier to get set up than expected. Didn't say whether the new supplier is in the UK or not.

I sold my heckler with the intention of transferring everything over to a new rocket. It's been that long that the only bits I have left are the cranks and bars! I've bought everything else new... I've been through the pissed off phase, specifically when it wasn't ready in time for our week in molini, but I'm out the other side now and getting more excited by the day.

The evening I spend (eventually) building the rocket will be a momentous evening instead. It will involve taking over the kitchen, a takeaway curry, plenty ales and Rioja.... (Best cut the steerer first!)

As said above, having no control over vendors is a nightmare, hopefully the new manufacturer sorts this out, as cotic are a cracking wee company otherwise.

I can't really say anything else but sorry.

I know it's been bloody months (expletive required) and we are desperate to get things moving again too. However, it is currently 'we don't know'. The main reason for this being that until we have had production quality samples we can sign off and say "that is good enough to be a Cotic product" we can't tell you, because until we know it's good enough, I absolutely will not commit to production.

I know it's unsatisfying and frustrating, but we're just being honest. It's also the reason we generally do not take deposits. Because if it takes ages, and you decide you want to go and get something else, you have that options, you're not tied in and to be honest given how long it's currently taken I wouldn't blame you for doing so. We're trying to do the best we can.

I know a lot of you have been annoyed by the radio silence too, but again, whilst we have no more news, we haven't got anything to add.

Sorry again. I hope you hold on, because the new bikes are going to be rad. I know they are.

you could pass the time by doing some riding kit?

Cy, is a switch over to having some frames welded in the U.K likely to happen?
There was a comment made about this earlier on in the thread...
Anyhow all the best with getting things going.

bigrich - Member

you could pass the time by doing some riding kit?

In the wrap style?

That would be equally awesome and no doubt horrendous at the same time.
I'll take a set in large :0)

Ooh plus some water bottles (I know I know you have to buy a squillion to make them work)

Umm yes? Try and avoid being condescending in your description, I did not know brant/on one existed until 2006. Or this forum for that matter (I think I found it in 2007?)

Planet-X were around when I got back into MTB'ing, so i'd guess mid-90's if not earlier?

headed by a certain Mr Richards and his all white workhorse from the distant past

I think a certain Mr Dekerf would have a few things to say about that. and a Mr Fisher would mutter under his breath about copying his geometry.

I need links fir white workhorse thing please..

Google "Inbred"

Careful - say his name three times in a thread and he will appear.

Considering steel bikes were made for around 100 years before either Cy or Brant appeared, i think to claim they were the founders is a STW made up piece of revisionism a large step too far.

Is the new supplier also doing the long awaited aluminium short travel full susser? 😉

Long travel hardtails? Spooky, yes?

Spooky were certainly doing that sort of thing in the mid 90s, before others jumped on the bandwagon (See what I did there? 😉 )

IIRC, Fisher turned out a longer travel HT at some point as well. Paragon, I think. OK, so only a 100mm fork from memory, but BITD that was a long travel fork! 🙂

Although, it could also be argued that the HT that made the biggest impact on the market was that ridden by JMC. All of a sudden, we all wanted shorter stems and wider bars....

IIRC, Fisher turned out a longer travel HT at some point as well. Paragon, I think. OK, so only a 100mm fork from memory, but BITD that was a long travel fork

Fisher had the Genesis geometry ( i think that was it's name) which is probably not too far off what Cotic's geometry is?

TBF, it was probably DMR that kick started the steel re-evolution with the trailstar?

Trailstar was 96, IIRC, FTW was welding at Spooky from 95, and was behind the original Metalhead.

Sounds a bit like a draw! 🙂

Trailstar was 96, IIRC, FTW was welding at Spooky from 95, and was behind the original Metalhead.

Sounds a bit like a draw!

yeah but frank was welding at yeti before that ,however i suppose this was bitd before genreisation took over and you had a bike and ****ed off everywhere on it and did everything on it

Trailstar was 96, IIRC, FTW was welding at Spooky from 95, and was behind the original Metalhead.

Sounds a bit like a draw

Spooky were alloy though, along with all the other hardcore hardtial frames of that time. DMR were about the only steel one produced in relatively large numbers.

True, was talking more about the overall genre of LT HTs.

bitd before genreisation took over and you had a bike and **** off everywhere on it and did everything on it

Yep, those halcyon days when you did a weekend of DH, XC and trials, all on the same bike! 🙂 Bula hats for slalom markers, isn't it? Wasn't it?

True, was talking more about the overall genre of LT HTs.

bitd before genreisation took over and you had a bike and **** off everywhere on it and did everything on it
Yep, those halcyon days when you did a weekend of DH, XC and trials, all on the same bike! Bula hats for slalom markers, isn't it? Wasn't it?

Dunno chap I'm only 21 bit before my time

😀

Yep, those halcyon days when you did a weekend of DH, XC and trials, all on the same bike! Bula hats for slalom markers, isn't it? Wasn't it?

I remember going for a day out round grizedale and my mate came on his trials bike. He couldnt wait to sit down afterwards.

Yeah, the glory days of one bike that did everything equally badly. Think I prefer having 3 bikes that each do quite a lot of things brilliantly tbh!

Yeah, the glory days of one bike that did everything equally badly. Think I prefer having 3 bikes that each do quite a lot of things brilliantly tbh!

yep seeing steve peat on his rigid kona hei hei going downhill faster than a lot of folks ever will...badly then going racing cross country and doing that badly on the same bike

talent comes from t bike obviously

Er, and now you can see him going faster on harder courses on a more suitable better bike. Doesn't matter how good you are, having the right tool for the job is always better than not.

Er, and now you can see him going faster on harder courses on a more suitable better bike. Doesn't matter how good you are, having the right tool for the job is always better than not.

I think for peat its true for you and me its called a skills compensation, i still enjoyed my shed bike back in the day..... one way to settle it just because downhillers cant beat a peregrine falcon down a hill might be to stick him on his old bike and some middle aged armchair biker on a v10 see who wins

No one has mentioned Bontrager... so I will. [b]Bontrager[/b]. Oh, and [b]Kona[/b].

There is no claim that steel frames were a new thing when Cotic came along. Shoulders of giants and all that.

kelvin - Member

No one has mentioned Bontrager... so I will. Bontrager. Oh, and Kona.

And Cove?

compositepro - Member

I think for peat its true for you and me its called a skills compensation

I think it's the exact same thing for both, bike and rider are always a package. Peaty is faster on a modern bike than on an ancient one, and faster on a more suitable bike than a less suitable one, so are you, so am I.

I'd take on your challenge though, not that it would mean a thing but it'd be a laugh 😉

Bontrager Race Lite, Fat Chance Yo Eddy and Wicked, Dave Yates and a £109 Halfords Apollo Forma were key bikes in my mind when we started on-one.

Taking this topic back to the original question I can completely understand the frustration but surely people must appreciate the honesty?? How easy would it be for cotic to take deposits and continually delay delivery dates?? I personally like the honesty and tip my cap to one of the truly genuine bike manufacturers.

I do however feel very lucky in that I've just found myself a second hand rocket to entertain me until the new crop are in stock!!

Perhaps Cy is designing the next generation of the Soul in 27.5 !!!

What is this 27.5? Is this yet another inbetweener size? Do we really need a wheel size that splits 27.1 and 29 inches?

Bontrager Race Lite, Fat Chance Yo Eddy and Wicked, Dave Yates and a £109 Halfords Apollo Forma were key bikes in my mind when we started on-one.