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So, I was involved in an RTC (see my other topic if you're interested) and I want to claim against the other party for the cost of my (commuting) bike. I took the bike to the shop who declared it uneconomical to repair, and recommended a replacement.
This is fair enough, but where does the 'market value prior to accident' come into it? If your car is written off, you'll usually get a cheque from the insurer with which to buy a replacement second hand car, right? The insurer will argue the toss about how much your car was worth, and you'll eventually settle on a figure. Which is easy because of various second hand car price guides, autotrader etc.
Who can estimate the market value prior to accident of a bike?
Can I argue with it? If someone turned round and said it was worth, say, £300 (approx half of the 'replacement' cost), I would find it very difficult to get a replacement bike for that money - certainly not one of the specification that my bike had. It was a typical 'workhorse' bike in that it all functioned well and the upgraded drivetrain / wheels were semi-posh (ideal for commuting) but the frame was old and overall it looked a bit tatty. I certainly wouldn't be happy with a shiny new bike if, at £300, it had nasty shimano 2400 gears that would all wear out within 6 months.
How does one reconcile this?
I presume the frame/forks/wheels wheels were knackered, but maybe most of the gears and components are ok?
I'd argue it should be new for old on anything genuinely damaged. Then at some point, a full bike becomes cheaper than replacing frame, forks wheels and a few bits.
Its small change to the insurers at the end of the day compared to if you were claiming for injury or a car.
When I was involved in road traffic accident, albeit with on a motorbike, I claimed for loss of use for social purposes as well as replacement bike.
Legally you have to be compensated for what you have actually lost - you haven't lost a brand new bike so you won't receive the cost of a brand new bike. You have lost a two year old (or however old) bike, so you will get that value, exactly the same as a written off car.
As there isn't a Parkers or Glass' Guide for used bikes like there is for cars it will be harder for you to substantiate your loss. A good LBS may be able and willing to provide you with their estimated value, or you could search on the for sale ads on here, or see what's on ebay, to try and justify a value.
Legally you're entitled to be put back in the position you were before the crash. They have to provide you with a bike of the same quality as you had before. If that means paying for a new one (which is most likely the case), then they'll have to pay for a new one. Anecdotally, when I was knocked off by a car I got the new replacement cost of anything which was damaged even cosmetically - ie I claimed for the cost of a new pair of STI levers because the ones on the bike had been scratched and a plastic cap broken (they still function perfectly well today 😉 ). Get the LBS to quote you for an equivalent new replacement and ask them for that - if they quibble, then www.bikeline.co.uk
...actually having now read your other thread, go direct to www.bikeline.co.uk do not pass go. Will save you a lot of grief. That's what I did when I got new replacement cost after my crash.
I would say don't go to bikeline. Just to add balance to the debate.
Its simply the misleading "internet" shop front for a Liverpool Solicitors full of the usual lies about insurers, without mentioning how they conduct your claim to suit their own business practices.
Frankly since the new rules about solicitors costs were introduced a couple of months ago, some solicitors, all of whom appear to be operating out of the North West/Liverpool and with the protection of Liverpool or Birkenhead County Court judges have become a nightmare to deal with.
We dont think they're passing on offers to claimants, or blocking the elctronic method of communicating with insurers, thus refusing to accept offers to settle, simply to push the matter to court rather than settle, to bump up their legal costs.
If you could see the claimant industry right now, you'd be of the opinion the average PI solicitors practice, operates such sharp practice that estate agents and traffic wardens would be embarassed. And its all wasting the time of the claimant.
Just ring the insurer to start with.
Most insurers will use Wheelies, who will generally inspect the bike and source a replacement if like for like is appropriate or offer you a discount on a new bike to take into account the age/condition.
Are you a British cycling member or CTC member?
If so give them a call as I think basic membership has insurance and legal help etc.
I do hear BC is good.
My bikes aren't for sale, they're for riding. If they were for sale, then market value might be fair compensation. But they're not - so if you smash my bike you have to replace it with something that rides just as well. If you can't find a second hand one that meets the spec, that's tough on you. Give me a new one.
The other thing, of course is that I'm very particular about bikes (more so mountain bikes, but also road bikes to an extent) - in that I don't tolerate parts being 'wrong'. If I buy a second hand bike, I'd need to change pedals / bars / stem / seat and probably a few other bits before I was completely happy on it. So even if there's a second hand bike that's roughly equivalent in value to mine, I can guarantee I wouldn't be happy on it without spending a bit of extra cash.
Is there some way around this? Can I insist that although a second hand bike might seem 'better' on spec, that I want a particular seat / bar etc?
Yes of course. Unless the bit you specify is no longer available at a sensible price and there are acceptable alternatives.
aracer - Member
Legally you're entitled to be put back in the position you were before the crash
that's the key phrase to use if you get an offer you don't think is right then just list why using the above criteria (edit and explain that is what you are doing) - if you've not claimed for loss of use point this out stating any further delay will make you reconsider this
(or use the CTC legal scheme)
In law, you have to be put into the position you were in befor the accident.
This means they need to get you a bike similar to what they destroyed. If such a bike was available off the shelf (eg 2.5 years old, chain a bit worn, new tyres etc) then it would be easy, but it isn't. The reason you get the RRP of a new equivalent is that is the easiest way to get you a bike as good as (actually better) that what you had. You end up better off, but that's not your problemt, they could search out an identical SH bike if they had the time.
So IMO RRP is what it should be.
I would say don't go to bikeline. Just to add balance to the debate.Its simply the misleading "internet" shop front for a Liverpool Solicitors full of the usual lies about insurers, without mentioning how they conduct your claim to suit their own business practices.
Frankly since the new rules about solicitors costs were introduced a couple of months ago, some solicitors, all of whom appear to be operating out of the North West/Liverpool and with the protection of Liverpool or Birkenhead County Court judges have become a nightmare to deal with.
Presumably you work for an insurance company? Well without the help of bikeline the insurance company in my claim would probably have carried on attempting to deny the claim even longer. As it was, it took the threat of court action before they paid up - this was in a case where the driver didn't dispute what happened and made a statement to the police at the scene, but the insurance company still wanted to try and wriggle out of paying. I wonder why it is you want to discourage people from using bikeline...
I also don't think you have the slightest clue about bikeline - it's not an internet shop front, nor is it a new practice. It was founded by somebody who cycles and is involved in cycling.
And its all wasting the time of the claimant.
As part of the insurance industry, that's something you'd know all about.
Most insurers will use Wheelies, who will generally inspect the bike and source a replacement if like for like is appropriate or offer you a discount on a new bike to take into account the age/condition.
Hmm - did you read the OP at all? The bit where he's worried that the insurance company will try to pay him less than it would cost to replace his bike with something equivalent? You're telling us that's exactly what your company would do, and that he shouldn't involve a solicitor?
I was a claims manager in the early 90s just as the whole claims culture was kicking off in mainland Britain - imported from NI, through Merseyside via 2 notorious solicitors with colourful pasts.
Most days I'm glad I moved on when I did, others I really miss that work. Shame so many genuine claimants have got a bad rep due to their legal representatives shenanigans.
I'd suggest it's a shame so many honest insurance companies have got a bad rep due to the shenanigans of a few, but that would be assuming there are many honest insurance companies.