Specifically Les Arc. Been a few times, just looked at the chunnel costs and its 318 (flexi plus) out and 274 return, gulp. plus 90 for recovery and insurance. Yes i dont need flexi plus but i absolutely want it on the way back because the queues can be horrific and it reduces the gotta get there stress getting to the port.
Then 300 quid for juice and maybe 160 tolls (cant remember exactly)
so a total of basically a grand give or take. That would get my Viano with 5 people there and back, so i suppose its only 200 quid each to get there and back.
Is flying/hiring car cheaper, and worth the hassle? Is taking a ferry much cheaper, and worth the maybe 20 quid each saving or whatever?
Can't say for the tunnel but I've never bought Flexi tickets for ferry and always found they just shove you on whatever is next available regardless when you pass the gate, if there has been big queues. Unless prices have changed a lot recently I would say you can half the price of the channel crossing that way.
So much easier in a van, just get in and drive, get out at your destination, cost of flights, bike carriage alone for 5 people - not to mention hire and general hassle each end, potentially more expense and grief IMO.
Driving is so much better as you can take all your spares and tools and other kit and it will all arrive safely. Flying is more hassle and more expensive. It's marginally quicker, if it goes smoothly, but you lose the flexibility of travel times. If cost is an issue you can cut the bill a bit with cheaper tickets or clubcard points (are they still doing that?) but at that price definitely driving
Dover - Dunkirk ferry has usually been cheapest every time I've looked in the past.
I've been over a dozen times in the last decade & these are roughly what we've paid.
1 or 2 people fly usually £140-£210
3 or 4 people large diesel estate £150-£250 each
5 or more van £120-£170 each
Train from Ebbsfleet-Paris-Bourg always looks most relaxing but always comes out most expensive by some margin.
I just buy whatever the option is with Tesco Clubcard points. Never had an issue getting on a train,
As above, Tesco Clubcard points for the Tunnel, pick times when they aren't busy usually late evening or early morning.
Use Flexi plus only for the return? Save a little bit there.
I like the drive down to be honest. We always have nice stop off around Macon, do a bit of cycling there.
I think you're probably safer/more convenient currently on the tunnel too.
We did fly once for skiing, and had a six hour delay with snow at East Midlands!
We do Tuesday mid afternoon on the tunnel. Very quiet. Dartford bit is always busy though, worst bit of the trip.
Is flying/hiring car cheaper, and worth the hassle?
Currently the hassle factor with flying is "some paperwork" most (if not all) you'd have to do anyway. The major problem with airports; (for me at least) the heaps of other humans, has largely gone away. there are literally only a dozen or so flights an hour going from most regional airports, the queues are, in comparison to normal, non-existent. I breezed through Manchester, Frankfurt, Bilbao last week, and maybe stood in a queue for an hour max the whole time, most of which was passport control (thanks Brexit). The only real issue was, as always getting back through UK border control.
The fly in the soup is airlines are cancelling flights at the drop of a hat, and direct flights from regional to regional airports are pretty scarce. If you can put up with stop-overs, or an airline is going where and when you want to go, flying is pretty convenient and nice right now.
Having always flown to the alps (for ski trips not biking admittedly), we're probalby going to drive or take the train from now on. It's time to face up to the fact that convenient or not, flying cannot really be justified in the modern climate given it's impact. While I'd love to take the train, since there wil be 3 of us travelling from Manchester, it's not really viable given the price hike, which is a shame.
While I’d love to take the train
French and for that matter Spanish trains aren't talking bikes at present.
It depends on a number of thngs, such as....
- How far is it from home, to your nearest suitable airport? (compared with distance to chunnel also?).
For those of us up in the North of England, with a 5, 6, 7 hour trip to Dover, flying is going to be a different proposition to someone who lives in Kent.
As for Ferry - have looked at some of the longer overnight routes? Means driving 'down and across' France more than 'down', but agan when coming from up North we used to do this to break the trip up with an overnighter and some tea on the ferry.
The fly in the soup is airlines are cancelling flights at the drop of a hat
Book with the right airline and they wont ever do that to you.
As above, use tesco clubcard points. Pre pandemic, I used to fill up at the local metro tesco station. That has given me at times almost a free crossing.
Flights - eldest has done this a few times.
Flights often around £100-120 return (from a Scotland to Geneva, YMMV)
Bike £100 (£50 each way)
Transfers via bike taxi, £60 - £80 return.
You may need a bigger allowance on baggage, we usually maximise the bike case allowance.
So £300 to fly - faster, but fewer spares and clothes with him.
We go for cheap ferry or sailing times. Such as Thursday late PM, not Friday or weekend, use Tesco points, look at Dunkirk, go out one ferry back by Chunnel etc.
I think Flexi-plus is a total waste of Money - i've turned up hours early, and a bit late before and they've always put us on the next available crossing - think i got charged £8 once when we we're about 10 hours early.
If you really must use it - i'd only do it on the way back.
As others have mentioned - i always use Tesco clubcard vouchers for my tunnel tickets - just booked for next July - £109 each way.
Book with the right airline and they wont ever do that to you.
Pre-pandemic I pretty sure that's the case, now...I'm not so sure any airline can be so accommodating. One of the very few benefits of flying is convenience, If they go from where I want to where I want, I'll use any airline, if they don't, there's no point or benefit to me if they stick to their schedules, frankly
Just booked tunnel (with tesco points) for a feb ski trip (crossed fingers!!!)
Have never booked flexi as it just feels like complete upselling with marginal real benefits as they've always got us on a train either on or around the booked time. Slight delay on the late sunday one home peak feb half term last time but nothing that would make me pay almost 3x as much.
Agree that Flexi is a waste of money.
Have only had one nightmare journey where we turned up several hours late (M25 chaos) on a day when all the trains were several hours delayed. They stuck us on the "next available" which was 1am rather than the 8pm or whatever we were aiming for originally. Not sure if or how much better off we would have been with Flexi - the whole place was total chaos.
All other times it's been fine, and have often travelled a bit earlier or later than planned at no extra cost, depending on when we actually arrived.
On the way back this summer there was a bit of a queue on the way back, but that was UK passport running slow (Covid checks, presumably) and I don't think Flexi fast tracks that bit.
You know costs are currently sky high because of COVID right? Costs have been put up to try to grab back what they’ve lost and because seemingly people only think it’s a holiday if they’re in another country. No matter ferry, plane etc. The costs right now are crazy. I think it’s a case of you either pay it or you don’t go just yet tbh.
Personally with team of mates, I would van share and a Dover / Dunkirk, take all your bike spares and make sure I arrived in Luxemburg service station for a full tank of cheap fuel.
There is a good toll free and fast route through to Basel then its a share of a Swiss motorway sticker at Chf40 for a return through Switzerland. Stick the sticky sticker on carefully then stick it on FB Marketplace.
@nickc Are French trains really not taking bikes at the moment?
Does it matter if they are boxed?
Can anyone help with aink to this, as Mrs B was going to go and do the all girl TNR with Lael Wilcox in a fortnight or so....train was to be her transport
Ian
Are French trains really not taking bikes at the moment?
I understand in theory SNCF are taking bikes as are the regional trains, but Eurostar certainly aren't. The operator I spoke to at Omio (who I normally use) said that Eurostar are refusing point blank and everyone else is being is being really cagey about it, so don't plan on it being at all easy, and you may still be turned away.
I guess it depends on your level of acceptance of risk
Flying is more hassle and more expensive. It’s marginally quicker, if it goes smoothly, but you lose the flexibility of travel times.
I’ve flown & driven many times. Given the choice, I would fly, every single time.
I was reasonably close to the tunnel (2hours) and there was nothing ‘marginal’ about the time it took. It was pretty much a third of the time. And cheaper.
Yep, couldn’t take a mountain of spares, but haven’t actually ever needed anything I’ve taken in all the years other than a tyre & pads.
We’re taking the motorhome next year as we’re doing a longer trip & going to various places. I am really not looking forward to the driving - get me on a plane any day.
I understand in theory SNCF are taking bikes as are the regional trains, but Eurostar certainly aren’t. The operator I spoke to at Omio (who I normally use) said that Eurostar are refusing point blank and everyone else is being is being really cagey about it, so don’t plan on it being at all easy, and you may still be turned away.
I guess it depends on your level of acceptance of risk
When you say bikes, do you mean unpacked, complete bikes, or "large rolling suitcase"?
I've flown once and driven twice. Done quite a few none biking drives round Europe as well.
I'm in the North East so it's a good 5-6hrs to Folkestone to get on the tunnel so I've always planned it for around 10pm as it's cheaper. Then belt through the boring (flat) bit of France in the night so you get the sun coming up as you get to the good bits. Arrive at around midday, have an afternoon nap, few beers in the evening and riding the next day.
I flew from Heathrow as flights from either Newcastle or Edinburgh to Geneva were around 4x the price and easyjet charge through the eyeballs for a bike bag. Swissair just treated is as an extra hold bag, so £25 each way. Then had to hire a car and negotiate Geneva traffic.
If there's 5 of you just take the van. Or if you find yourself limited on space put 3 of you in the van with 2 on the plane with just hand luggage and pick them up from Geneva.
Can you still trade Tesco Clubcard vouchers for channel Tunnel tickets at 3:1? That’s what we used to do.
The advantage with driving down is that if the weather turns absolutely foul for the whole of your holiday you can just pack up and head somewhere else that’s dry. Especially if you pack a tent. You can also carry spares and stuff.
Flying is more hassle and more expensive. It’s marginally quicker, if it goes smoothly
I'm guessing you don't have a 500 mile drive just to get to the border.
Fly every time. I'd even go with BA if it meant not having to drive that and then another 600 miles on the other side. ****. That.
i live 1h20m from the tunnel. So one option is 4 or 5 up in the bus with all the bikes and kit. about a grand
another way is a mate has a company van and has his fuel paid. He can take probably 6 bikes and the kit, and everyone else can either drive in the most economical car, or fly/hire.
car hire ~300gbp, plus flight for 4 is say 600quid, plus the crossing and tolls for the van cheapest tunnel ticket is 250 quid + 150
plus insurance for everyone as previously i got the tunnel recovery and insurance which we call every year to check and it covers mtb'ing. 80 quid each? knocking on the door of 1500 quid.
Still cheaper just to take the bus.
Nothing useful to add, other than I'm absolutely gagging to get to the mountains and I love driving down there. I much prefer driving to flying no matter how much longer it takes.
If anyone has an empty seat going from Sheffield to an Alp I'll chip in.
If I was taking younger kids (who would struggle on the long trip) or only had about 5 days I would fly (not sure about in current climate) but otherwise driving is part of the trip for us.
i live 1h20m from the tunnel.
Much jealousy, 8hrs+ and 500 miles to Folkstone for me. We've done Dover-Calais ferry once but every other time it's Hull-Rotterdam/Zeebrugge ('only' 5hrs and 280miles). Not cheap but most realistic option to avoid trek to the south-east coast. Done it multiple times, mostly with family but also once with biking buddies - the road trip when you're 4/5-up in a van with mates and a trailer of bikes behind you is part of the adventure. Less so when it's family with 2 bored kids onboard...
another way is a mate has a company van and has his fuel paid.
He may not get it free outside of the UK. Leads to some fun calculations trying to get back to Calais on fumes.
he said he does. he is the director!
We’re taking the motorhome next year as we’re doing a longer trip & going to various places. I am really not looking forward to the driving – get me on a plane any day.
And you bought a motorhome...
just throwing it out there, but you can get to whistler for <£500 return at the moment 🙂
Don’t bother with a flexi-ticket. We never have. Just turn up and either wait or politely ask to be moved to an earlier slot.
We’ve even had our van put on the freight carriages to go earlier (the wife wasn’t that impressed with all the middle aged lorry drivers ogling her in her shorts and vest at 3am as you get out of the vehicle and go in a passenger carriage) but it saved us 3 hours.
Specifically Les Arc. Been a few times, just looked at the chunnel costs and its 318 (flexi plus) out and 274 return, gulp. plus 90 for recovery and insurance. Yes i dont need flexi plus but i absolutely want it on the way back because the queues can be horrific and it reduces the gotta get there stress getting to the port.
Then 300 quid for juice and maybe 160 tolls (cant remember exactly)
so a total of basically a grand give or take. That would get my Viano with 5 people there and back, so i suppose its only 200 quid each to get there and back.
I live part time in Villaroger on the Sainte Foy side of Les Arcs. Absolute no brainer with 5 of you and gear. Drive and tunnel every single time.
i live 1h20m from the tunnel. So one option is 4 or 5 up in the bus with all the bikes and kit. about a grand
Get up early and get on it. We drive regularly from Manchester which on a good early start (4.30am) set off is about 5h from the tunnel. We're at the little pizza place down the valley from ours by 20.30 French time in the evening.
The return trip, from experience, we don't leave until 9 or 10am. Get to Calais for late tea time after the big rush, much nicer drive on the UK side after rush hour.
Re flexi plus - current prices seem to be about £180 each way for standard tickets, we got flexi on the return a couple of weeks ago for £240, 3 days before travelling. The 'free' food we loaded up with for 4 of us would have cost the difference in the services, and we were straight through no messing. We have found that flexi prices vary a lot. You can pick up some deals if you book close to travel date. For 5 hungry MTB'ers you'll easily pick up the difference in food, coffee and pop at the flexi lounge - don't overthink it!
The one thing that now can cause the bottleneck is sodding passport control. Thanks brexshit. No Flexiplus will speed you through that unfortunately.
Don't know if you've got accomodation sorted, but you can pick up some great deals by staying in the valley and riding the short distance to the Les Arcs funicular each morning, which will have you in Arc 1600 in about 10 mins. The restaurants etc are much cheaper and there is wider choice. You are also well placed for day trips to Tignes/Val D'Isere/La Rosiere & La Thuile if you do that too.
DM me if you want some links to accomodation and the details of (the best) guides in the area...
We have booked next summers tickets for our 7.5m camper for £243 return. Swapped the tesco vouchers for it so £80s wort of vouchers and £3 top up. Been going across for years using them, sometimes 4 or 5 times, and never used flexiplus.
Get up early and get on it.
nah, leave after work (cheeky, slight early leave friday if poss). Blast to the tunnel, across the border and you're in france by 8pm their time. Either drive overnight in shifts or drive for 5 hours, kip in a fomula1 (midnight uk time) and drive the rest of the way first thing. Full days riding in the alps awaits. Similar for the way back - we've managed 9 days riding with 5 days off work doing it this way
I’ve done Wirral to Leogang 3 or 4 times a year since 2012.
Always go Dover/Dunkirk, ferry is always under £200 return. 4 tanks of fuel in the van (2000 miles return) is around £320 atm.
I used to do it in one hit but now I leave Wirral around 9am to get the 4pm ferry, get to Luxembourg around 11pm, cheap hotel (£60), set off after breakfast and get to Austria in the afternoon.
No toll roads on my route through France/Belgium/Luxembourg/Germany/Austria
@sharkattack if you fancy a week DH/Enduro some time we should hook up.
I think Flexi-plus is a total waste of Money – i’ve turned up hours early, and a bit late before and they’ve always put us on the next available crossing – think i got charged £8 once when we we’re about 10 hours early.
This. On a return from Alpe d'Huez, I left loads of extra time due to being worried about missing my slot on a fixed ticket. I turned up two hours early and they put me on the next available train.
Agree with the comments about Flexi, really is no need. You can change you ticket at any time if you call up, you just pay any extra due (but no admin fee). IF you're late, they just put you on the next train - they arent busy currently.
I came back through the tunnel yesterday at 8.30am. Shortest queue I've ever experienced and no issues with Covid checks so long as you complete everything in advance. Now, the M25, that's anther matter....
Tolls between Calais and Chamonix are about 90 euros. 50 euros if you come off nearer Dijon and head into Switzerland.
Slightly OT - if anyone is driving out or coming back soon, lateral flow tests are currently free in Switzerland - who'd have thought.
Slightly OT – if anyone is driving out or coming back soon, lateral flow tests are currently free in Switzerland – who’d have thought.
Isn't that tied to their covid passport scheme though?
Question, when do you need a carnet? Thinking about how much kit costs it is far in excess of any permitted import value.
bit of a cheeky bump. so a sort of summary
chunnel, if you live near it and dont drop the cash on the flexi plus - 5 in a van is the way to go
ferry - similar to above and a bit cheaper and possibly takes a while longer but not really an issue
flying - if you live up north it saves a lot of motorway grind, bit you are into transfers, or car hire etc so not really cheaper than driving
train. anyone actually used a train to get to bourg? it does sound like a very civilised way of getting there but of course you can only take what you can carry, and i like to take a lot. usually i take a whole spare bike to rob for spares.
one last way my brother has done a couple of times. Get someone else to take your bike and fly/drive. The flights were very cheap, and if you share the car hire, that bit can be cheap too. I looked at the link above for getting your bike posted out there and its really expensive. Maybe i could fill my bus up with bikes and take donations to help pay the diesel bill..
Maybe i could fill my bus up with bikes and take donations to help pay the diesel bill..
If I had a mate with a bus I'd be first in line. I'd love to let someone else drive for once.
If you're traveling from the north to Dover the ferry gives you more of a break then the tunnel. The VIP room - or whatever it's called on board is worth doing as you can fill your face and pockets with more than the cost of pastries/cakes etc and have a short power nap on the comfy recliners.
Budget in for a Sanef Peage tag, quicker, saves on fuel, itemised billing.
I have the sanef thing it lives in the van. Absolutely well worth it can save sometimes 10 or 15 minutes at a busy toll. I have had a fancy RS6 thing overtake me 2 or 3 times at silly speed because he got stuck in the tolls, and i just scooted directly through the express lane without even having to come to a stop. itemised billing is good too when it comes to sharing out the costs. Re diesel i brim it before i leave, and brim it when i get home and then its simply fuel added £/people on bus.
My bus insurance company let me add additional drivers for the trip for £17.50 (total not each its just an admin charge) so i always do this. then its really only 3 hours driving each for 3 people in france, and i like to do the last hour up the switchbacks and so on.
The biggest thing I forgot in my previous post;
Share the journey with people who can sleep in moving vehicles and are used to long intercontinental journeys. MrsRNP and I have done North Manchester to the Spanish border for years in our V70 pre Covid. Taking turns driving, sleep when not driving or pull into an Aire and have a power nap in the back of the car, quick fuel&pee stops, etc.
I drove to Morzine a few years ago with a mate and his teenage son, my mate was anal about his car and would hardly let me drive, no chance was his lad driving. Faffing around in French service stations for ages. They couldn't grasp beforehand just how big France is to drive across.
It took ages and we hit 'the wall', they couldn't sleep in the car and were absolutely knackered all week with constant arguements between us. It definitely strained the friendship long term.
Well I flew Bristol - Geneva in 2019 & had choice of 4 flights on a Saturday, but now there are no direct flights.
I also priced the train up from St Pancras to Bourg SM & its over 3 times the price of my last flight!
A week in Wales it is then.
