[Closed] Cornering technique

4. Crash

3 but it varies I was told

It varies dependent upon speed, camber and radius of the corner.

corners?! they sound dangerous.

1. Lean more than the bike when there are hikers/horse riders about
2. Keep the bike and your body in a line on bermed corners
3. Lean the bike more than your body most of the time

Depends on your tyres.

5. Skid round them 🙂

HOw many teenage girls are watching?

6. avoid corners (as i've already mentioned, they sound dangerous!) go in a straight line until you end up back on the trail. if trees get in the way then stop slowly and safely using your brakes and call an adult for advice.

[edit] phils advice is far better!

I don't know. Jedi implanted some sort of control mechanism so he gets me round corners, I have no control or understanding of how or indeed why, I just do.

what happened to foot out flat out?

It was pointed out to me that I lean myself more than the bike and it was suggested that as an excercise I should try to feel the seatpost on my inside leg to try and force a lean out of the bike

Tell you what, it works. It initially felt or wrong, but as a new age 'bike leaner' I feel more confident now

7. Adjust Go-Pro

8. Before every corner ,always shout " WATCH THIS"

3, and sometimes 2 if the camber is very positive

It depends on how tall you are

Guys with lower centre of gravities, can and often have to throw their weight around more.

Peaty on the other hand moves the bike around underneath him more than a lot of shorter riders.

There's no right or wrong way, it's about what works best for you.

There's no right or wrong way, it's about what works best for you.

1. Lean more than the bike
2. Keep the bike and your body in a line
3. Lean the bike more than your body

Given these option. You are definitely wrong Bwaarp.

8. Before every corner ,always shout " WATCH THIS"

6a. avoid corners - ride in the peak district...

Pedal as fast as possible staring at the spot of ground 6 inches ahead of the front wheel, at the point of corner entry wiggle bars randomly and see what happens. If the outcome is desirable i.e. you make it out of the corner pointing roughly where the exit is remember what you did for the next corner.

6a. avoid corners - ride in the peak district...

Well if you stick to the loops published in MBR, yes 😛

fairhurst - Member
www.vimeo.com/41343426

Please tell me this is you and is posted without a hint of irony? It's made my day!

Shout SPEEDWAY and just nail it - it works for me sometimes..! ha

without a hint yes
it is on other threads also

It's all about tyre grip apparently

If you lean the bike more than you, your weight will be more over the edges of the tyres, hence helping them 'dig in' and grip.

If you lean with the bike, or more than the bike, there is no weight over the tyres and they won't grip so well, so can wash out.

Obviously, if the corner has a good camber or berm you don't need to pressure the edges of the tyre so much as they won't leaning in relation to the ground surface.

Go and see Jedi.

Given these option. You are definitely wrong Bwaarp.

I'll go and find the video where peaty explains this, but I suppose you know more than a world cup downhiller? Oh but Jedi told you so....obviously he's right.

0.55

Bwaarp -

1) Does he say lean more than the bike?
2) Watch a load of footage of 'The Don' and tell me what you actually see him doing. 1m25s is pretty insightful.

No this isn't superbikes, I wasn't talking about leaning more than the bike was I? Very few people are going to be cornering like they're riding a WSB bike.

However if you notice before 1:25, on the small jumps with the berms, you can notice "The Don" is leaning more than his bike into the berm and generally chucking his weight into it. Some people lean their bikes over more and stay more upright in that situation, at the moment I'm still working out what works best for me. I personally feel as though at entry into the corner I get a quicker corner entry and direction change going "The Don" on it, but have better mid-corner grip if I don't.

As long as you don't go to far one way, it's all about what works for you as that fundamentals video repeatedly states.

"The Don" is leaning more than his bike into the berm

yes, because he has the berm to lean against, on all other non-bermed corners in the section on cornering they have their outside foot down and the bike is leaning more, with their outside knee kicked in - which seems to be a pretty standard technique amongst top riders.

I would generally go off how he says he rides as opposed to 10 seconds of footage....even off those 10 seconds of footage you can see he leans more aggressively than peaty....at 1:25 he is not leaned over more than the bike but he still moves around on top of the bike a hell of a lot more than peaty. The same goes some of the other Elite riders as well.

Yeti, took my words out of context. There's a lot of shit spouted on here about riding technique, as if there is one hard and fast rule. They tend to be the same people who spend their entire race weekend (if they're not trail centre warriors) banging on about lines, who then get trounced by riders who just do what feels right to them.

What I find interesting is that on a motorbike there clearly is a right and wrong way; you need to lean further than the bike to move the CofG as far as possible while keeping the bike as upright as possible. It's surprising that there isn't a right and wrong way on a bicycle.

FWIW I lean with the bike or a bit further, leaning the bike more than me just feels wrong (although it didn't before I started riding motor bikes).

What I find interesting is that on a motorbike there clearly is a right and wrong way; you need to lean further than the bike to move the CofG as far as possible while keeping the bike as upright as possible. It's surprising that there isn't a right and wrong way on a bicycle.

What I find even more interesting is that when you look at the difference in the riding technique between Rossi and Stoner (an ex dirt bike racer) there clearly is not to a certain extent always a right and wrong way.

I would generally go off how he says he rides as opposed to 10 seconds of footage

what a person says he does and what he actually does are not necessarily the same thing - all I can see is him, and other top riders, predominantly riding with the bike being worked beneath their bodies, with their outside foot down on corners, unless they have a berm to support them or the corner is so short they don't have time and they don't need the grip.

what a person says he does and what he actually does are not necessarily the same thing - all I can see is him, and other top riders, predominantly riding with the bike being worked beneath their bodies, with their outside foot down on corners, unless they have a berm to support them or the corner is so short they don't have time and they don't need the grip.

So you are calling peaty a liar?

No I can definitely see a difference between say Peaty, Neil, or Sam Hill.

BTW: Putting your foot down on the outside stands the bike more upright and is used mostly for fast flat corners or off camber sections. In other places not limited to just berms it can be a hindrance.

on a motor bike it is going to be different as the bike is a lot heavier than you - maybe your extra lean helps put more grip on the edge of the tyre to counteract the cornering forces wanting to break the tyre away from the surface.

on a mountain bike you are the heaviest bit, so keeping you weight above the tyres helps them grip, putting it inside the tyres means they are more likely to break away as you turn.

Have you not thought that an increased contact patch when stood further upright might help to counterbalance some of that and that say quicker line direction might make up for some of the lost grip in terms of time on a track.

My brain's totally wired to lean with the bike, right into the corner, after too many years on motorbikes, and though I'm basically sympathetic to "whatever works, as long as you're having fun", it's still a crap way to go round a corner on a mountain bike.

No whatever works is what makes you put in faster lap times on a race run.

Some people say you should have no weight on the handlebars. I put in much faster runs, with very flat, wide handlebars which cause me to weight up the front of the bike more. When I switched to that style of riding it meant more arm pump but I've gotten used to it, it wore off after a while.

Some people, really hate that style of riding and are faster riding the back a bit more. I won't berate them for it.

However there's a fine line though between poor riding technique that is just plain wrong and having a different style.

fairhurst - Member

BTW: Putting your foot down on the outside stands the bike more upright and is used mostly for fast flat corners or off camber sections. In other places not limited to just berms it can be a hindrance.

Now that's just rubbish, I taught myself to corner better by taking the BMX out with slick tyres to a grassy field and repeatedly doing laps turning as hard as possible at the bottom, after a few attempts I was leaning the bike over so far the inside pedal dug in, a few more goes after that I was going round the corner with one foot on the outside pedal and the other on the saddle (which at least makes bailing easy!).

Most riders lean the bike over further than they do so that as it slips it stays under them, then as they tyres grip again they don't get high sided. If you hang off the bike like a (tarmac) motorbike then as it loses grip it tries to get away from you, then when it regains grip it high sides you off into the gravel. So tucking your weight inside the bike works well when there's masses of predictable grip, not so good when the grip runs out (i.e. 90% of the time off road where one or the other wheel is probably gonna slip a bit on very corner)

when stood further upright

but that is what I am saying, sort of.

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/video-how-to-corner-with-bike-riders-united-32490/

on that link peat is showing how to corner with the outside foot down (on a flat corner), which is consistently what nearly every coach or rider says.

The point of the outside foot down is to put more weight on the outside of the leaned bike, to keep the weight above the tyre edge and so biting into the ground.

The more the turn, the more the bike is lean't the more weight gets put on the outside pedal - - you can see the some riders turn their hips into the corner but seem to slide the hip outward, putting even more weight over the outside edge.

see this page, which has piccies of peat.

http://www.leelikesbikes.com/cornering-why-are-their-butts-out.html

Now that's just rubbish, I taught myself to corner better by taking the BMX out with slick tyres to a grassy field and repeatedly doing laps turning as hard as possible at the bottom, after a few attempts I was leaning the bike over so far the inside pedal dug in, a few more goes after that I was going round the corner with one foot on the outside pedal and the other on the saddle (which at least makes bailing easy!).

Throughout this entire descent, where do you see Sam Hill put his outside foot down? Do you put your outside foot down round every corner? That my friend is a mincers mistake.

Fairhurst is the most amazing troll ever!!!

See, I'm not quite so sure, he's so far beyond a STW self parody he's gone full circle and wears a met parachute. I think he should go see Jedi, not because he needs more skilz*, but because the resulting "When fairhurst met Jedi" video would probably cause forum meltdown!

*who was the young scallywag who talked like that on here years ago and everyone assumed was troling?

[url=

is worth a watch.

You want to learn about descending, watch a real pro...

where do you see Sam Hill put his outside foot down

for one thing there are few corners where he needs the extra traction, and the frequency and shortness of the corners don't give him time, so it would be counterproductive.

However you do see him several times shifting his weight to the outside by turning his hips into the corner and sliding his hips to the outside slightly, as in that 2nd link I posted. 53s and 1.46 are examples.

Do you put your outside foot down round every corner?

no, but then I never said I was a good rider - just after a lesson with Jedi I started looking at how riders manage their bikes more and there is a definite commonality to the good riders technique.

This is worth a watch.

I have that DVD - it is very good. It says exactly what I was saying though.

Precisely Turnerguy. I entirely agree with you, the post was not aimed at you it was aimed at the bloke that suggested the fact that putting your outside foot down can be a hindrance was bollocks.

If you ever wonder over to the Southerndownhill forums most of them will tell you to do it on fast flat turns.

Some of you are missing what I am saying, I don't advocate leaning more than the bike. I'm saying some racers have a bias towards chucking their weight around more than leaning the bike and that technique can and does work for them.

You can't pump a bike into the ground if you're hanging off the inside of it - you need to be on top or the force is going the wrong way! And you can't corner seriously fast if you aren't pushing the bike into the ground when you need maximum grip.

A lot depends on tyres too. Some are rounder in profile, others have a more obvious transition from the flat to side knobs ans so need the bike further over to make the knobs bite. Different riders have different styles, hence why the perfect tyre for one rider might be useless for another......

We're all different.

An interesting thread.. For the most part I agree with Bwaarps first comment - whatever works best for you.
Personally I find the outside foot down works well for most situations, and for flatter corners getting a little more weight over the front of the bike, that's just me, I'm no Steve Peat.
Braking whilst cornering is a mistake I used to make, once I got out of that habit I definately got faster overall.

Fairhurst is that not a parody of Simon Ralli of this parish, if not apologies incredibly similiar riding styles 😀 .

Fairhurst is that not a parody of Simon Ralli of this parish, if not apologies incredibly similiar [s]riding[/s][b] walking[/b] styles

what I think interesting is that move that is being hinted at when people say to turn your hips into the turn, or kick your knee into the turn, which then opens up the axis for you to slid your hips back out over the bike, as shown in the leelikesbikes link.

Pretty much all you need to know

allmountainventure - Member
Pretty much all you need to know

www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVEh9Tby54g

Northwind - Member
My brain's totally wired to lean with the bike, right into the corner, after too many years on motorbikes, and though I'm basically sympathetic to "whatever works, as long as you're having fun", it's still a crap way to go round a corner on a mountain bike.

This would explain why you couldn't get on with Rubber Queens.

take a look at yourselves and wonder why you're not world cup level riders

technique is one thing, controlling what's in your head is another...

that video precisely says what I was pointing out - 1. he shows the knee/hips thing and 2. he shows the bit about leaning more than the bike and the tyres breaking away.

that was on a DVD called Skills For Thrills on the July 2011 issue of Mountain Bike UK, 'cos it is one of the few mtb mags I bought that year.

i only watched the first peaty vid. outside foot down, leaning on inside grip.... all good

rudedog - Member

This would explain why you couldn't get on with Rubber Queens.

Nah, not really, though I know where you're coming from- I can do it right when the brain's working, it's just that I tend to fall back into the bad habits whenever things aren't working well or I'm rushing things. But tbh I found the rubber queens very good when cornering badly 🙂 Tons of stood-up grip.

So, in summary, on loose surfaces, for any given corner and speed you need to move the combined centre of gravity inwards to get keep the bike balanced and get round the bend. Whether you do this by leaning the bike or your body will not affect the position of the combined rider and bike CofG so the only thing that really changes is which part of the tyre is in contact with the ground. If your tyres are the type with big lugs at the side then you'll get better grip by leaning the bike to get onto the edges. If you're tall this is more important than if you're small. Either way, your weight is going to be on the outer pedal

In short, it doesn't matter much.

My experience-

For general riding, keeping things nicely controlled and predictable, the safe option. Leaning bike, dropping outside pedal, keeping body essentially in the same place (upright), weight on top hand (maybe, having trouble picturing it). If i want to pump bike through the turn in this manner, a rotation of the hips, pushing out through my feet.

If i feel like drifting, i initiate the tyres breaking away by leaning body with bike until i can feel the tyres breakaway. To stop the drift, i either pull bike upright or start cranking. If i want to continue and control drift, i revert back to the position outlined in first paragraph.

As for the pros, i have no idea. I've attended a load of ghetto dual races with a load of local heroes. They're very muddy and slidey. People like peaty and bryceland make it look like they're not even doing anything, or even turning. They make exceptional line choices that make the track look straight. Any turns that look like turns though, they are dropping the crank and leaning the bike. A major difference i've noticed in their technique to most mortals is that their weight is very central, not really pushing on the front for grip. It sort of makes sense, maybe, you can generate more pump in that position, generating more force on the tyres and hence grip, maybe 😐

So in short - leaning bike, dropping crank, body upright, it's the way to do it. Leaning body and bike makes the tyres breakaway, you may or may not want this. If a berm is a good size, lean body with bike.

I'd like to be able to offer some advice, but I ride a 29er and therefore have no experience of cornering on a mountain bike as my wheels don't allow it.

I've got a 29er too, so [b]that's[/b] where I've been going wrong.

Close your eyes, while shouting "Look Mum!"

So, in summary, on loose surfaces, for any given corner and speed you need to move the combined centre of gravity inwards to get keep the bike balanced and get round the bend.

You must be summarising a different thread - that's pretty much the opposite of what is being said here and in the videos, particularly the "All Mountain Basic Biking Skills" one above.

This little section of corners/switchbacks took me 40 minutes of pushing back up and re-trying before I managed it without a dab (or a crash).

[img] [/img]

Technique is easy to read about or watch but harder to put it to use whilst trying to avoid pointy stuff and trees.

sunnrider - looks fun

You must be summarising a different thread - that's pretty much the opposite of what is being said here and in the videos, particularly the "All Mountain Basic Biking Skills" one above.

By 'balanced' I mean to stop it falling outwards which is what would happen if you turned the bars and didn't move the CofG inwards.

Most of the WC downhill tracks are so steep the inside foot down technique doesn't work as it would put the weight distribution all to pot. Like that Sam Hill vid shows a lot use their hips to force weight onto the tires. Another thing I have found after riding with some friends here who are all ex-downhill racers is that they lean their heads way out front over the bars to get extra grip on the front tire.

This little section of corners/switchbacks took me 40 minutes of pushing back up and re-trying before I managed it without a dab (or a crash).

you're doing it wrong

[IMG] [/IMG]

The outside foot down thing is an exaggerated movement to get people weighting the bike properly.

Sam Hill is still transferring his weight to the outside pedal, just not in such an exaggerated way. His outside foot moves lower than the inside. His outside heel drops more. He moves his hips over the saddle to the outside of the corner etc...

Sorry, but that's now considered technical? wtf?

You really [i]don't[/i] need to be a STW riding god to get down that on two wheels...

Yes, he [b]could[/b] have ridden from the start point to the end point in a straight line, but I thought the point was to practice corners.

you're doing it wrong

I think I´ll have that etched on my tombstone.

Fairhurst is that not a parody of Simon Ralli of this parish, if not apologies incredibly similiar riding styles

😕