[Closed] Convincing Wife it is ok for 16yo to ride 3 miles on an A Road

At 16 you can move out, join the army and drive a tractor!

You are trying to "solve" an emotional response.

She's 16, old enough to ride a moped FFS.

I used to cycle to school along the A6 for 2 miles each way every day for 5 years, including going home for lunch.
No helmet, because they hadn't been invented!

tell her she is....
wrong
stupid
ridiculous

silence will reign for another week.

At the risk of sounding like TJ, I'd suggest to your daughter that high viz doesn't give you helmet hair.
Nothing we say on this thread will help you sort out the other matter 🙂

If a man makes a statement, and there isn't a woman around to hear it, is he still wrong?

You are right.

How about you and your wife ride the route with your daughter so your wife can see for herself?

It's a sad day when ordinary reality becomes an unacceptable risk

Me and a mate (both 8 or 9) plus his grandad cycled to the pub along 2 miles of A road back in the day. Used to venture out on foot and bike across all sorts of distances at that age. Would never let my lad do that though.

A [url= https://bikeability.org.uk/ ]Bikeability course[/url] might do the trick. And, in due course, help your daughter become a better car driver.

Can have babies, but can't go on a road????????

Alternative route?

You're not winning this one.

"Used to venture out on foot and bike across all sorts of distances at that age. Would never let my lad do that though."

"I totally agree that it "feels" unsafe if you listen to the media."

two cross posted related statements if ever i saw.

Its not computers/xboxes that are killing future generations its fear.

Exploring new places on your own/wih mates is a life skill.

+1 for the Bikeability

a) for the skills and awareness it will teach your daughter
b) it stops the debate being 'your opinion' vs your wife's

Also, ask the Bikeability people if they'll have a chat with your wife to reassure her?

There are two issues here.
One is about cycling on an A road.
The other is about disagreeing with a woman.
I suggest the latter takes precedence in one's quest for a happy life.

She can outrun a theif/mugger on the bike quicker than on foot.

At 16 I did what must have been a 45 mile round trip (to a swimming pool where I went swimming) with my mate. Some A-roads, some B-roads.

To be fair though, I did die and write this from beyond the grave 🙁

If a man makes a statement, and there isn't a woman around to hear it, is he still wrong?

Oh, I am stealing this. 🙂

To the OP. I think it is ridiculous to try and stop a 16 year old girl from riding on the road due to safety concerns.
She is old enough to get married, join the armed forces, leave home.
My daughter is 16 and lives in Canada. She can legally drive over there.

[i]"The other is about disagreeing with a woman"[/i]
But there are two women, wife and daughter. He'll be disagreeing with one of them, whatever he does 🙄

Good info from CTC. It says

Is cycling really that dangerous?

No. In general, cycling in Britain is a relatively safe activity.

Using official road casualty and road traffic reports, population stats and the National Travel Survey, CTC calculates that, on average:
?One cyclist is killed on Britain’s roads for every 27 million miles travelled by cycle - the equivalent to over 1,000 times around the world;
?Each year, there are 8 million cycle trips for every cycling death;
?The general risk of injury from cycling in Great Britain is just 0.048 injuries per 1,000 hours of cycling.

Also:
?According to a paper that looked at sports injuries, tennis is riskier than ‘outdoor cycling’ (5 injuries per 1,000 hours for tennis, 3.5 for cycling). ‘Rowing machine exercise’ came in at 6 injuries per 1,000 hours;
?You are more likely to be injured in an hour of gardening than in an hour of cycling;
?As mentioned above, the health benefits of cycling outweigh the injury risks by between 13:1 and 415:1, according to various studies.

These facts, together with the reference sources, are included in our road safety briefing (link http://www.ctc.org.uk/campaigning/views-and-briefings/road-safety-and-cycling-overview).

http://www.ctc.org.uk/resources/ctc-cycling-statistics#How many people think that cycling is too dangerous?

But there are two women, wife and daughter. He'll be disagreeing with one of them, whatever he does.

This is true. A rock and a hard place. I suggest withdrawing from enemy lines back to a manshed.

Just listen to these fools making rational arguments and reasonable assumptions. You really are like children.

Wives are bit like killer cyborgs from the future:
They can't be reasoned with or bargained with
They don't feel pity or remorse
And they absolutely WILL NOT stop until you are wrong.

Put your wife on the bikeability course (maybe even send your daughter, too).

From age 12 I was riding five miles each way to school, including negotiating Kingston (upon Thames) town centre in both directions. Every day, rain or shine, in the dark in winter with just crappy dynamo lights ! No helmet or hi-viz, although my parents made a limp attempt to make me wear a sam brown belt. They failed.

Maybe roads were a bit quieter then.

Anyway, she's sixteen, I'd suggest that she's perfectly able to make up her own mind whether to do it. If your wife is finding this hard she's going to have a proper meltdown when your daughter does something that is actually reckless !

I started mountain biking when I was about 9 or 10 and rode regularly on A roads alone from when I was about 12. This wasn't back in the summer of '76, when I was your daughter's age it was 2004.

And you'll never win the hi-vis argument, I never wore it despite my dad's protestations.

Sometimes you have to put up with the fallout to win an argument. You will never convince her with facts, just tell her that you support your daughters autonomy and if she won't then she needs to be avaliable to ferry her around as you aren't going to.
It'll be horrible for a while, but the benefits for your daughter will be worth it.
Mind you if your daughter [i]is[/i] one of the very few casualties your life will be absolute hell.

Buy your daughter a moped and put her through CBT training, problem sorted.

Rather than a high viz vest requiring intervention from the fashion police, why not a stylish brightly coloured jacket?

I suppose it depends on the A road! If it was the A9 then I can see her concern! I also found your statement that you hadn't seen her ride much on the road confusing. My son rides on quiet a toads at 11, but that is because I HAVE seen him ride on the road and am aware of his reasonable Road sense. However as others have said regardless of the logic, fact and statistics you will never persuade someone who thinks you are wrong about a highly emotive subject (regardless of gender).

Just tell her to get a boyfriend that's old enough to drive, problem solved.

Worries me as well my son is 15 and is riding on A roads locally. Just have to trust them and brief them on the fact that all drivers are stoopid till proven otherwise 😉

Rather than a high viz vest requiring intervention from the fashion police, why not a stylish brightly coloured jacket?

Not sure anyone has enough info comment. A lifetime of road riding including more time trialling on dual carriageways than I care to remember and there are plenty of A roads I would actively avoid riding on. Not all A roads are born equally. A streetview link to the section in question would help.

From this I conclude that my mum wished me dead, as when I was 15 she was quite happy for me to ride out of Bristol over the Severn bridge and into South Wales/Forest of Dean on my own.
This was before mobile phones etc so if I needed rescuing it was 10p at a phone box.

My parents should be locked up for some sort of neglect by the sound of it.

In primary school I was allowed free reign on the farm/estate (about a 3 mile radius of home) after that I don't ever remember being told I couldn't ride somewhere, it probably helped that there weren't any places I wanted to go within an 11yr olds cycling distance, but by 16 I was doing 20-30 mile loops including some 'bad' A-Roads.

Having said that, my younger brother is/was a liability on a bike, so in comparison I probably looked quite sensible!

I had a 90minute loop that took in about 500m of A road.

I got crushed against a wall by a lorry on that 500m four years ago. I now have a 60minute loop with no A road.

My son wanted to get into road cycling at 16 - I actively discouraged him and am glad I did.

Indolence might have a long term effect, it's not going to suddenly remove your daughter tomorrow.

I often wonder when this molly coddling / over protection by parents started and what caused it?

I was young in 70s/80s and I and all my friends could do what we wanted as far as cycling around, going around on out own etc,. from about 10 years up.
I cycled to school 5 miles away along dual carriageways between age of 12 and 16.

That was through to mid 80s and I used the same approach with my child so why is today's generation of parents so frightened when the risk has not become any greater?
Presumably has to be media coverage, scare-mongering and so on.

I was young in 70s/80s and I and all my friends could do what we wanted as far as cycling around, going around on out own etc,. from about 10 years up.
I cycled to school 5 miles away along dual carriageways between age of 12 and 16.

That was through to mid 80s and I used the same approach with my child so why is today's generation of parents so frightened when the risk has not become any greater?
Presumably has to be media coverage, scare-mongering and so on.

Whilst maybe true (its before my time), you did have green cross code, stranger danger, etc etc in the 70's. That wasn't there in the 40's (unless you count paranoia about communists/fascists).

Possibly an element of rose tinted glasses, and everyone's belief that they are not only the best parents in their peer group but also considerably better/cooler than their parents were.

I had my full driving licence, and owned a car, within a week of my 15th birthday. I drove to school for 6th and 7th form, when I could afford the petrol. Is your daughter a bit (struggles to find appropriate word and not cause offence) um differently abled ?

I had my full driving licence, and owned a car, within a week of my 15th birthday.

I'm guessing American?

Is your daughter a bit (struggles to find appropriate word and not cause offence) um differently abled ?

To be fair the daughter appears to not have an issue with doing said trip - it's the perception of the perceived risk by the mother that is an issue.

Kiwi. They have changed the rules now, so you can't do that any more is a graduated system. So yes, I learned gears and everything.

[quote=kerley ]I often wonder when this molly coddling / over protection by parents started and what caused it?
I was young in 70s/80s and I and all my friends could do what we wanted as far as cycling around, going around on out own etc,. from about 10 years up.
I cycled to school 5 miles away along dual carriageways between age of 12 and 16.

Probably a gradual thing - my mum wouldn't let me cycle 5 miles to school in the 80s because it involved crossing a DC, would have much rather done that than taken the bus.

From this I conclude that my mum wished me dead, as when I was 15 she was quite happy for me to ride out of Bristol over the Severn bridge and into South Wales/Forest of Dean on my own.

Indeed. As my mum said to me the other day: "I never saw you from the age of 12". We'd ride our BMX's to 3 Sisters, or Barton BMX tracks. Or ride the road bikes (or 'racers' as they were known in those days) to Manchester Airport or out to Chester. We'd just disappear in the morning and come back in the evening. Our parents just assumed we were sensible enough to try not to die.

As I'm still alive I just apply the same standards to my daughters. They're presently up in the woods somewhere. I'm sure they're still alive. Probably.

After last week's discussion re the 7yr old being 40mins from home I tested the waters with my sister and sister-in-law who both have 4yr olds this weekend. Depressingly they were both in the never let them out of my sight at 7 camp. I have a little park less than 40 yards up the road in our little village - you can see the tops of the swings out of our bedroom window. It would mean crossing the road but it is a tiny country lane with about a dozen cars a day along it. Both claim there is no way their kids would be allowed to go to the park on their own from our house at 7yrs old. Both said they didn't have an issue with the road but they wouldn't because...well...perverts. I tried to persuade them they had more chance of winning the lottery than their child being abducted but both said it was risk not worth taking. I despair. And the SIL is a primary teacher - I thought she would have more common sense.

SIL is a primary teacher - I thought she would have more common sense

sadly times have changed, far more pervs and far more traffic, which equates too far more idiots on the roads,its not about the age, its more about being self aware on the roads and treating all drivers as if they havnt seen you, so take more precautions,ive cycled since i was 10yrs, im now 54, and been knocked off 6 times luckily nothing serious, but now im alot more aware of where i cycle and where i position myself on the road,it only takes a near miss to put some people off cycling on the roads, my misses doesnt like it for that reason,i think ita all down to the individual, wether or not they are confident in their abilities on the road, it will never be a 100% safe, but you can minimise the risks, like on busy roads instead of waiting in the middle of the road to make a right turn, wait at the side and wait for a gap in the traffic.

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I grew up and live in suburbia in the South East of England.
The roads where I live are probably three times as busy now as when I was scooting around on my bike in the 1980s/90s.
There are also a lot more parked cars, which make it more dangerous for cycling.
I don't see any kids cycling around here now, unless they are with adults.
Very sad.

3km on the A272 into Winchester yesterday.

The end of a lovely 60km ride on quiet lanes. It's far too narrow to pass in the lane so riding well outgrow the kerb as bikeability teaches. No cycle lane. Not even any pavement. Then an unprotected right turn onto a dual carriageway with a blind bend with cars coming round at 80mph.

First punishment pass within a km. Second with use of horn. Crossing into the dual a leap of faith.

UK drivers are ****s basically and they're getting worse.

If it's the 3 miles into Manchester City centre on the A34, including the 4-lane section when you need to be in lane 2 to avoid ending up on the M60 I have to agree with your wife. That's not safe. But then I didn't die (nor did any of the 5 other guys I was with), so maybe it was safe after all, 100% of people survive.

At 17 I cycled from my house to the station in Keighley (2 miles along an A road), from Keighley station I got a train to Leeds, then a train to york, then a train to Edinburgh, from Edinburgh I rode the Capital Trail at a distance of 150 miles with a loaded bike. Having finished said 150 miles I then got all 3 trains back to Keighley and rode 2 miles back up an A road to my house.
Convinced?

sadly times have changed, far more pervs

This proves my point about the media being partly to blame. There are no more pervs about than in the 70's and combined with the fact that most pervs are known to the abused it makes no sense to link pervs with riding on the road.

Don't believe everything you read in the papers...

Surely it depends on the A road? If it's the A1, then you might want a different route?

I cycled with my mates to Durham down the A690 one summer (can't remember why we didn't do the off-road route along the river to Fatfield and down). I'd been club riding for two years at that point, didn't stop me being nearly wiped out by a trailer-wagon. That was over 20 years ago, roads are busier now.

Again, depends on the A road. Which is it and where?