[Closed] Continental 5000 TL, worth the upgrade from 5000 tubed?

It will be a weekly reinflate. Mine will drop 20-25 psi in a week.

It will be a weekly reinflate. Mine will drop 20-25 psi in a week.

Ick, think it could be down to the rim/sealant?

I pump mine up every ride but I do with tubed wheels too. Daft not to.

Ick, think it could be down to the rim/sealant?

Probably. A well sealed tubeless tyre doesn't lose 25psi in a week.

It will be a weekly reinflate. Mine will drop 20-25 psi in a week.

Mine do this as well regardless of how new the sealant is.

Wondering if a hole-less & TL ready rimbed could perform a bit better, surely there are examples of people who see less than 25 psi lost in a week??

Great tyres, and I suspect the difference will be more if you run them at lower pressures than the tubed jobs.

The higher the pressure, the more it will lose. All of my bikes are tubeless, 2 of them are 32mm GP 5000 TL, one is Sector 32s, another 28mm Pro Ones. All use tape that is at least 5mm more than the rim width, all use Stan’s valves and Race sealant. 200km a week and you’ll lose 20-25psi out of the 28s and 10-15 out of the 32s.

The 28mm tyres are at 75-85psi and the 32s are 55-65psi.

I check my pressures before every ride with a digital gauge.

Hmm, I'd want to ride at at least 90 psi (I'm 89 kg).. maybe tubeless is not the way :>

Can you really not find 30 seconds a week to top them up?

Why would you want to run such high pressure?
(unless you are using 23mm tyres)

You wouldn’t want to run 90psi tubeless; you are able to run miles less pressure when tubeless. Most rims aren’t rated for that (think my Mavics are 87psi Max tubeless).

You wouldn’t want to run 90psi tubeless

Enve recommends 88 PSI for my weight with 25 mm tires on their tubeless rims https://www.enve.com/en/tirepressure/, farsports says tubeless max pressure is 105 psi.

Now I would be ok running them at lower pressure for training and transport, and then once in a while topping them up to 90 PSI for PR attempts - how long do they remain rideable without topping off?

LOL - the 90s called and want their recommended tyre pressures back.

Higher pressure is faster, simple as that.

Higher pressure is faster, simple as that.

Given a completely smooth surface such as a velodrome, yes.

Also faster on normal roads, on track you go to 160 psi tubulars.

You obviously don't live in the uk, I'm running 60/65 on 28s.

And all the science says lower pressure is faster, but higher feels faster. That is just because you bounce around more.

Lower pressure CAN be faster, given a specific set of circumstances. This is not the same as lower pressure is always faster. What tyre pressure do you think rohan dennis was running for the 2019 title?

Here's a hint: it wasn't 60.

I’m running 68/64 in mine (28c) and on my Hunt rims they need a slight top up every couple of weeks. Very happy with them. My Pro Ones (25c) need a slight top up every couple of weeks.
Conti juice in the 5000 and Schwalbe in the Pro Ones.

Also, I’d say that vs. Glass and flint, you’re equally as likely to get a puncture with the TL as the standard tyre. My only tubeless road punctures that wouldn’t seal were due to glass which caused a hole bigger than 5mm.

The advantage (other than feel, which is superb) is for smaller things like thorns, etc. I found about 7 thorns in my Sector 32s when they eventually punctured enough (glass) to need an anchovie. Not having to take the wheel or tyre off to fix a puncture is also quite nice.

Normal 5000s with latex tubes are faster than TLs....

You wouldn’t want to run 90psi tubeless; you are able to run miles less pressure when tubeless.

The Continental site specifies 80 - 109 for 25c which is what I have. Can’t see anywhere what the max pressure for my wheels are though (Reynolds AR41X DB).

Also, I’d say that vs. Glass and flint, you’re equally as likely to get a puncture with the TL as the standard tyre. My only tubeless road punctures that wouldn’t seal were due to glass which caused a hole bigger than 5mm.

To be more precise, small sharp glass and flint fragments are what's always given me punctures here, so very small holes that I reckon TL could do a lot to mitigate.

Normal 5000s with latex tubes are faster than TLs….

Don't you have to reinflate those even more than TL ones?

In terms of comfort, there's a big difference between 90 and 100 psi for me I notice, so unless I want to go really fast on smooth road I'll probably stick to 90.

I've found this Tyre pressure calculator. interesting as a sort of starting point for tyre pressures.
Covers all sorts to tyres, tubed or tubeless, worth a play...

The max inflation pressure on a 28mm GP5000 TL is 94psi and recommended pressure is 65psi. The tubed version has a max pressure of 115psi and a recommended of 95psi. That would suggest that they are designed to run a lower pressures, so try 20psi less than the tubed version. I started by running my TL's at 80psi and have now dropped to 65psi. My seat of the pants feeling is that they are faster riding at the lower pressure and less likely to tear on sharp objects.
My first one only lasted 300 miles at 80psi due to a 1 inch slash caused by a piece of glass. I have no way of knowing if a lower pressure would have avoided this but I now carry a tubeless repair patch that fits inside the tyre just in case.
Pressure loss is down to how well the tyre is seated on the rim. My front tyre hardly lost any pressure over a week but the rear would drop 30psi overnight. I remounted the rear and it seals far better than my first attempt. I also added an extra 30ml of sealant as I am running non TL rims and they have lots of extra areas that need sealing compared to a specific tubeless rim.

Sounds like some.terrible tubeless combinations here.

I have giant slr1 rims with gavia tires.

80psi stays rideable for a month .

Someone assured me 65psi was faster.

So I put 65 psi in using my SKS rennecompressor ....

I am looking for some gp5000tl in 28c for next tire and will repeat the experiment then. My riding buddy had 28s on his tcr yesterday at 80- he is heavy and he was rolling fast - even if his bike did look like a fat tired hybrid

-quickly learned you don't run 65psi at 80 kilos on 25psi Rim was pretty much on the floor......didn't even get to the end of the road.

I’ve found this Tyre pressure calculator.

Only recommends 2 psi lower with tubeless over tubed, for me at nearly 100 kg total system weight around 85/90 psi front/rear.

Seems like if starting at around 85 PSI the best case scenario is to lose 1 psi pr day.

There's an app for this:

https://www.mavic.com/en-gb/my-mavic

Also a web calculator:

https://info.silca.cc/silca-professional-pressure-calculator

If your intent is to remove the likelihood of getting punctures from very small objects then tubeless will help with that so just go and buy them.

You may need to pump them up once a week or you may need to pump them up once a month (as I do with my tubeless tyres) but that is a difference between 120 seconds a month and 30 seconds a month.
I would also recommend 28c, especially based on your weight.

Isn't 28c a bit wide (for aero reasons) on those wheels?

Isn’t 28c a bit wide (for aero reasons) on those wheels?

28c would be a bit wide yes aerodynamically, 25c is nearly flush with my rims. In terms or ride comfort I'm sure 28c would be better.

Seems like I'll have to give it a go eventually.

Only recommends 2 psi lower with tubeless over tubed, for me at nearly 100 kg total system weight around 85/90 psi front/rear.

Exactly.
Everyone keeps saying you can run road tubeless "really low" but it's worth noting that rim and tyre width are perhaps more of a factor that simply running tubeless, and of course rider weight.

More volume means less pressure is needed to support the rider and bike and so you can have more cushioning/compliance for imperfect surfaces while maintaining similar rolling resistance.
But it's got to be proportionate to the mass bearing down on the tyre.

Others randomly lobbing about "I run XX Psi" statements is a bit meaningless when they don't know what the person they're advising weighs or what tyre/rim combo they have...

It's worth seeing what effect changing a single variable on that calculator has such as tyre width has, say going from 25mm to 28mm, if your considering new tyres...

I'm a fan of comfort on my road bike these days, and I definitely notice too much pressure in my tyres via my neck and shoulders, beyond about 35 miles.
A pressure that's 'fast' for 20 miles might not be so fast for 50+ as a fatigued rider isn't generally an efficient one...

The other thing to consider is just how accurate is the device measuring your tyre pressure?

Is TL more comfortable? The casing has lower TPI so it doesn't follow automatically.

Seems to be that TL then basically is trading time spent inflating your tires/checking your tire pressure and faffing about with sealant, for time spent changing tubes (and they're a bit safer it they can prevent flats).

I've been running tubeless tires for just over a year in the Chilterns (lots of flints). I counted 32 cuts and holes in my rear tyre when I took it off so I'm sold on it working!

Pressure loss, I had loads with OKO sealant, almost* none with Stans Race. Apparently it's down to synthetic Vs natural latex.

"Feel" and grip wise, I'm less convinced. Be honest unless you try them back to back even a mid range tyre is unnoticeable on it's own. It's only the really tough/cheap tyres that you can actually tell. Grip; do you get the back end out on corners sufficiently often to make a statistically significant conclusion? Or is it a case of 99% of skids are down to a manhole, tar over banding, white lines, debris or diesel and any tyre will stick just fine to tarmac?

I used to be a tyre tart and buy int the marketing that the GP4000s really had made my GP4000 obsolete. Then I bought a set of £8 Schwalbe Blizzards as I was skint and decided that actually they weren't slower, the difference in grip was at best marginal, and really the weight of the steel bead wasn't what was slowing me down. But I'd still go tubeless to avoid punctures.

*not enough that I bother to check monday-friday, might check after a full week. Comparable or better than supersonic innertubes (and massively better than latex).

Thanks notaspoon, I think you're right about feel.

Grip; do you get the back end out on corners sufficiently often to make a statistically significant conclusion

Could use some more grip for sprinting! Have had some problems with losing traction, mostly down to technique, but if there's a significant difference more grip would be nice.

If not a big difference, the puncture protection seem like the only real advantage?

Conti 5000TLs are nice, yohandsome, but are made for casuls on the sportives really. KOM smashers use vittoria corsa speed tubeless.

TBH I'm not going out of my way to fit tubeless tyres, I'm currently building a new pair of cheap TL ready wheels, but even then I'll just ride my current tubed 25mm Conti's till they're shagged out and then maybe replace them with pro ones or fusion 5s.

One thing that did occur to me, do you have to run both tyres tubeless?
If they are genuinely more comfortable then I can't help thinking that's worth prioritising on the front, which typically bears a little bit less of the riders weight but (for me at least) affects my comfort a bit more...

A comfy TL 25-28 on the front with a tubed 25 on the rear might be an acceptable cost/comfort/weight compromise...

Discuss...

Seems to be that TL then basically is trading time spent inflating your tires/checking your tire pressure and faffing about with sealant, for time spent changing tubes (and they’re a bit safer it they can prevent flats).

In my experience over last few years of tubeless the time spent inflating/checking tyre pressure and adding sealant (rather than faffing about with) is about the same amount of time as changing one tube in the middle of winter in the pissing rain.

Seems to be that TL then basically is trading time spent inflating your tires/checking your tire pressure and faffing about with sealant, for time spent changing tubes (and they’re a bit safer it they can prevent flats).

I don't really agree - I find I need about three extra strokes on the pump compared with using tubes. I don't top them up any more often. As for sealant, that's a once every three months job, at my convenience rather than the tube's convenience.

I run my tubed 25mm GP4000s at 70psi (80kg) and only top them up every few weeks....

Run mine with latex tubes. I have variously, 21/23/25c and 4000/5000s. None tubeless. The 21c(4000) are run higher - 100PSI (I'm 70 kg and the trike 14kg). Then, 95 and 90 for 23 and 25c I'm not a fan of tubeless on the road any more. But they are fabulous tyres.

Conti 5000TLs are nice, yohandsome, but are made for casuls on the sportives really. KOM smashers use vittoria corsa speed tubeless.

Hah, I see, a whole 1.4 watts faster than the 5000 TL at 100 psi according to bicyclerollingresistance.com, wonder how their watt test translates to real life? They use a 42.5 kg load pr tire, but I'm 101 kg incl bike, as rollingresistance scales linearly with weight, so the number for me is 18% higher, i.e. 1.65 watts.. If switching from the 5000 tubed I'd save 3.8 watts - not insignificant.

I don't log a ton of miles, so durability may not be a big issue, perhaps a nice summer tire, then switch to something more durable in the winter, but reading some horror stories about the vittorias leaking sealant.

Overall the 5000 TL seems like a more practical and durable, bit more expensive, and only 1.6 watts slower choice.

and only 1.6 watts slower choice.

You've changed 😢

Technically 3.2W as it's 2 tyres.

I'm sure I saw somewhere that the 4000s was actually more aero though. Something to do with the tread pattern being molded rather than cut.

Technically 3.2W as it’s 2 tyres.

Good point, and the test is done at 28 kmh/h and with RR linear with speed at 50 km/h we're up to 5.71 watts difference.

So the actual rolling resistance is approximately 2 * (bike+rider weight/85kg * Speed/28 * measured rolling resistance), that means the Corsa Speeds are about 13.5 watts faster than the 5000 tubed for me at 50 km/h!

t’s worth noting that the Corsa Speed only uses a single compound. It’s marketed to be far less grippy than the Corsa or Corsa control, which use 4. So it isn’t recommended to race on the Corsa Speed unless you’re sure you’re not going to be taking any turns fast. They’re good for TTs though.

Corsa Speed seems like a lot more trouble than it's worth, 5000 TL is still 7.7 watts faster at 50 km/h and equivalent pressure than the 5000 tubed.

Can’t comment on TL but I run tubes and check pressure before most rides. The commuter bike gets it done once a week and that’s only as I go a little hard on Monday so I know it’ll be fine come Friday.
Seriously OP, 30 seconds with a track pump is no great hassle.

Seriously OP, 30 seconds with a track pump is no great hassle.

What's next, shifters I'll need to recharge weekly? Slippery slope ;p

Think the 5000 TL would be fine, but might wait until it's winter and I really need the puncture protection..

I've got GP5000TL in 28mm on my current wheelset (DT Swiss ARC1400 48's) set up with DT tubeless valves and Squirt tyre sealant. I previously had GP5000TL in 25mm on a set of DT Swiss PR1600 32's.

Faff wise was absolutely minimal, they went on with a little bit of persuasion and inflated easily and seated first time.

I check the pressures before every ride, i used to do this when I had tubed GP4000 tyres anyway, its just good practice. As for actual pressures, I personally feel there's a lot of misinformation about how low you can go, for your average 75-80kg rider on a 7-8kg bike in my experience and taking advice from riders much better than me, on a 28 you're looking at 75-85 psi (obviously a bit less in the front) as lower than that can lead to rims digging on pot holes and squirmy feeling when pushing hard through corners or descending at speed.

As for the other factors, they feel nice, grip well (although I couldn't tell you if they grip better than tubes tyres) and roll well. I haven't had an issue in 1000km set up like this.

On another bike I ran Spesh Roubaix Pro 2bliss in 30/32mm on DT CR1600 23's tubeless for nigh on 4000km of mixed surface commuting, these were at 60/65 psi, not one puncture or issue in that time in all sorts of weather, they had slightly less pressure loss than the GP5000TL set up, but they're bigger volume tyres and lower pressure and a damn sight heavier / robust than the GPS.

So, I'm definitely a convert to road tubeless when set up with proper tubeless tyres on proper tubeless wheels.

Made the jump, follow up here https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/continental-5000-tl-farsports-tl-ready-60-mm-rims-noob-case-report/

After some growing/learning pains all seems good, apart from the 5000 TLs deseating (dropping into the center channel) at sub approx 25 psi - ideally it wouldn't unseat all the way down to flat. One suggestion has been to add a layer of rim tape to tighten the fit. Seems like farsports favored easy seatability over deseating protection designing these.

they're very good, but they don't last long.

you'll go fast and not have any punctures while they are in one piece.

I just bought a pair of tubed Schwalbe One Evo's from Merlin for £16.50 each delivered.

At that price, there's no need to try Cheng Slime ditch finders or whatever the cycling equivalents are.

I also use 28c Schwalbe Durano's. IIRC they're ~250g and the last pair lasted well over 6k miles before I got an egg in one.

I'm still running tubes as I get so few punctures, the 'benefits' of tubeless are offset by cost and weight. Obviously I'm not factoring in RRR which is clearly witchcraft. I'm running 100 psi on 23's, 90 psi on 25's and 85 psi on 28's. Comfort is fine, zippyness is also fine.

I'll give tubeless a go at some point but as of now, there's no compelling reason to do so (for me). I'll resist the marketing hype/fashionistas on this as I will for road 1x and perhaps Di2 😉

<edit>

that means the Corsa Speeds are about 13.5 watts faster than the 5000 tubed for me at 50 km/h!

If you're averaging 30mph, you should be out training with your pro mates not fannying around on here or the Directeur Sportif will have your guts for garters...

It is not marketing hype, it is just that your use case doesn't really fit with the benefits of tubeless. Main benefit for me is much lower number of punctures. If I didn't get punctures I wouldn't bother with tubeless as I am sure most other wouldn't.
Putting a tube in is always going to be easier than sealing a tyre, adding sealant, topping up sealant etc,. but if you get a few puncture a month tubeless becomes more worthwhile.

but if you get a few puncture a month tubeless becomes more worthwhile

If you're getting that many, you're riding in the wrong place or using the wrong tyre for the job (or both). Get some Marathon's...

I ride on a combination of tarmac and flinty gravel with road tyres so yes to most people I am riding the wrong tyre for the job (well half the time but that is the compromise with mixed surface rides) However, a "correct" gravel tyre would puncture just as much is running tubes. Running tubeless removes pretty much all of those punctures. Like I said, if you are in a situation where you don't get punctures then tubeless is probably not worth bothering with.

@kerley Have you tried Schwalbe's pimply gravel tyres? They're OK on the road and might be a bit betterer for you off road. You might still go for the TL version to avoid punctures.

One to piss off the purists... We did SDW a couple of times and got loads of punctures. Next time, I added some jizz to the inner tubes and lo and behold, NO PUNCTURES! I did have a couple of jizzy bubbles on the tyres so would definitely have punctured without. IIRC this was/is marketed as 'Slime' or some such. I just used a small bottle of Stan's having run out of Wickes latex carpet glue (AKA homemade jizz) in the early noughties 😁

I also use 28c Schwalbe Durano’s. IIRC they’re ~250g and the last pair lasted well over 6k miles before I got an egg in one.

I wouldn't bother with tubeless if I didn't care about rolling resistance and to a much lesser degree weight. I'd just get some mega puncture proof slow and heavy tire.

But I want to have my cake (go as fast as possible) and eat it too (use the bike for getting around town in all sorts of weather without punctures). The best tire for this seems to be the 5000 TL - pump it up to 100 psi to go super fast on smooth roads, leave it at 80-90 psi for day to day.

I've been running a 23mm GP5000 on the front 622-17c Hunt Aero Light Disc wheel for just over a week at ~95PSI with a Conti Supersonic tube (me in kit ~79Kg, Cube ~8.75Kg, up to ~1.5Kg of water), in combination with my two year old 28mm (really ~31.5mm) GP4000 on the supplied Fulcrum rear wheel...

Surprisingly not noticing much less comfort having swapped from a 28mm Rubino Pro G+, but I am noticing higher speed averages, I even managed back to back short ~12 mile interval type rides on consecutive days of 20/19.9mph which is a first for me on my far from aero 58cm Attain Pro Disc.

Got a 25mm GP5000 to fit on the Hunt rear, while also fitting new chain, 11-34 cassette and R7000 GS rear mech before hopefully heading to Prestatyn in a few weeks to see family and tackle Gwaenysgor's 33% slope and with a bit of luck the long "Road To Hell" climb heading south west from Denbigh.

Yeah I run Supersonic's on the light bikes but everyone moans about them on here. That's a funny post though ^, 11-34, a GS and 20mph average 😁

@kerley Have you tried Schwalbe’s pimply gravel tyres? They’re OK on the road and might be a bit betterer for you off road. You might still go for the TL version to avoid punctures.

I run road tyres because my frame only takes 25c max. I am currently using heavy duty tyre with tubes as they don't puncture. I am more concerned with punctures than breaking speed records.