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Hello all, gather round and I'll share my issu.,
I purchased a set of the new non series Shimano 4 pot brakes from rose bikes. Fitted them to my bike and discovered that one of the callipers pistons will not and cannot fully retract into the calliper body. This to my mind is either a production or manufacturing fault as it was present on arrival and there is simply no reasonable way to fix it. The outcome is that the pads bind on the rotor which cannot spin freely.
The other brake was fine and a helpful comparison to hoe the faulty brake should function.
So I get in touch with Rose, their response is that it is warranty issue and will take an undisclosed, yet they anticipate, long time to be reviewed by the manufacturer. questioning this they replied:
<i>you sent back a defect item. We are not the manufactor of the brake but Shimano, so we can´t decide if this is a warrenty case. No one of us was standing behind you when you tried to mount the brake, so it´s possible that the defect appeared of your fault. So we will wait for an answer from shimano and tell you if it was treated as a warranty case.</i>
Which again to me, does sound a lot like they will find any means possible to pass the fault onto me?
If purchasing the same brakes, it's easy enough to see if the calliper piston stand proud before mounting the brake and possibly ending up in the same position.
Photo of the problem (incase it helps): https://flic.kr/p/2aVCdqv
As you'll see it's not sticking out a massive amount but it's enough to make removing the pad spacer significantly difficult.
Bottom line - Do I have a leg top stand on in demanding a refund or replacement, or am I at the mercy of rose bikes and their long winded brakeless bike decision?
Shimano are very good with warranty stuff. Send it back and it'll take as long as it takes but I would be amazed if Shimano don't sort it out
Its a fair response, the wording could be better though.
it sounds alot like a well we cannot decide without seeing it .....
the joys of internet shopping really.
Honestly, I think mine look like that, but haven't caused a problem. Their reply sounds little overly defensive (without having seen what they are replying to), but as BB say I wouldn't worry about it. Shimano are generally pretty good about just replacing anything that seems faulty within warranty time.
Given you probably paid less than UK trade for the brakes based on Rose's recent prices, then its likely that Rose are selling these at a tiny markup. Im afraid that when you buy stuff really cheap then you have to expect that they won't take a bath on these and want to pass the problem on to Shimano. Your one brake would probably equal 9 brakes worth of profit if they write it off so to make that business model work they basically have to do it the slow way.
The brake was sent back to them. I could only find one dealer here in the UK at the time of purchase and the price difference was almost double per brake, hence taking the Rose route.
My main issues is that it's apparently up to Shimano to decide if it's a warranty issue vs what exactly constitutes a warranty issue, given it never worked out the box? If you purchased a TV and then found you could not turn it on, would it be warranty issue or a simple case of replacement or refund?
I was hoping there was some kind of robust distance selling regulations that made the matter clear.
Have you tried to empty the caliper of fluid?
I was hoping there was some kind of robust distance selling regulations that made the matter clear.
There is, but once you have installed and “used” the product, that changes things obviously.
given it never worked out the box?
Thats exactly the issue though isn’t it, and the thing Rose aren’t willing to take a risk on.
You say it didn’t work out of the box, but it’s been installed and used now, so they can’t really tell can they. Shimano can though, so they send it back to Shimano, nobody will look at it, and you will get a new one that works.
Shimano will sort it.
Tbh it sounds fair, but their reply sounds like translation probably hasn't done the tone of it much good! My experience of Shimano is that they'll happily replace it without question, but Rose can't take that as read I guess.
I recently sent a brake caliper back to Canyon on a year old bike, and it's taken the best part of a month to sort. Them''s the brakes. Arf.
I can't see how fitting the caliper could create the fault described, but I can see why Rose want Shimano's opinion. Under UK law, if it's faulty it's up to them to prove it wasn't faulty when you bought it - that changes after 6 months, then it's for you to prove. The legal picture may be slightly different under German law, but the EU has it covered (until Brexit). You're not going to get anywhere arguing with them until they get a reply from Shimano, so I'd wait for that.
My thought is that they have just been overfilled. Take out the pads, crack open the bleed nipple on the side of the caliper a quarter turn and see if you can push them back in then.
If that fails then warranty them.
^^^ this was my first thought too
Once again - warranty is not the same as your legal rights. Warranty is what the manufacturer offers. UK law on consumer protection is only UK law. It has no standing in Germany. I have no idea what the legal situation is as regards buyying from germany but I very much doubt its anything much
so yes - given the circumstances I see this as not unreasonable and you have no legal rights to replacement by rose bikes.
Well, as it happens we are still in the EU...
https://europa.eu/european-union/life/consumer-rights_en
Just buy another, say it's faulty when it arrived and swap it for the faulty on and return it. Job done.
Or crack open the bleed nipple and remove the excess fluid.
Hi all, It's not excess fluid, once fitted, I needed to shorten the hose and swop the levers over (which I did at the same time as fitting the other brake which is fine) I then realised I had a problem. I have tried re-setting the piston with the funnel attached and also with the hose removed and no fluid. After putting it all back together, I tested for leaks, of which there were non.
Only one piston is effected and it essentially does not move. In principle it wouldn't be so bad if the turn around from Shimano was quick, yet rose have stated that it will take an unknown but considerable time to be resolved and even then it reads as though they might come back pointing the finger at me.
If I had used the brake, actually used it rather than having shortened the hose, I could except it being a warranty issue. You cannot however actually use the brake unless you can he-man your way along with the rotor binding.
As heads up for anyone purchasing the same brakes, since returning the faulty one (with time on my hands not riding the mon braked bike), I have tried an XT lever on the good brake, which works, although I had to actually max out the bite point screw to get enough fluid into the system to work correctly.
I cannot however get the supplied brake lever to work with a regular XT calliper, as it engages the pads very quickly, with not enough lever throw. I guess they must push more fluid than a regular 2 pot calliper.
You haven't just jammed the piston have you? If you don't push it back square then it goes at an angle and won't move again unless you can straighten it.
As heads up for anyone purchasing the same brakes, since returning the faulty one (with time on my hands not riding the mon braked bike), I have tried an XT lever on the good brake, which works, although I had to actually max out the bite point screw to get enough fluid into the system to work correctly.
I cannot however get the supplied brake lever to work with a regular XT calliper, as it engages the pads very quickly, with not enough lever throw. I guess they must push more fluid than a regular 2 pot calliper.
Did you bleed it with the bite point wound to the minimum and the reach adjust wound right out?
I had a fiddly issue with chainrings on a stock chainset on a road bike I ordered from them, they were pretty good at replacing them for me with aftermarket chainrings they had in stock, rather than making me wait for a whole new chainset.
Seemed pretty good, and this was despite a lengthy email chain conducted via Google translate. I would have faith in Rose customer service.