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On the back of my wide road tyres thread I have been searching for the most comfortable tyres for use on my gravel bike that is used 90% of the time on the road. It has boost wheels though so can take pretty wide tyres if I wanted it to. As a carpal tunnel sufferer I'm wanting to see if a supple ride will ease the discomfort. I'm not interested in peak speed performace but I do want to be able to keep up on group rides.
Enter the handmade tyres from the likes of Compass/Rene Herse, Challenge and Vittoria (not hand made but a contender).
They are very expensive and while I have been searching for reviews etc I have come accross vastly differing experiences of how they perform in areas other than comfort. Everyone universally agrees the Rene Herse are the most comfortable but the experiences of some users are less than favorable in areas such as grip (particularly wet on tarmac), puncture resistance and very poor sealing when setup tubeless. In the worst cases people complain that that tyres blow off the rim - the Rene Herse website does attest to this but exlains it by saying that this is due to people fitting tubeless to non ETRTO sized rims and they even have a picture in their support pages of an example. That alone seems like it's a risk not worth taking if they blow off correctly sized rims but in general these experiences seem to vary wildly and the people who complain of blowoff don't (obviously!) say what rim it was on. Apparently though, hooked carbon rims are the worst as it's hard to mould the hook with any fine tolerance consistency and hookless carbon are a better choice (might explain some of the tubeless woes threads on here..). They suggest you should measure the BSD first to check. Both my wheel sets are carbon hooked rims...🙄.
I'm keen to get some real world experiences from users on here to see if the comfort gains are worth all the hassle, if anyone can be bothered to share - a couple of posters in my other thread have used them and given some insight but if anyone else has used any of these tyres either successfully or unsuccessfully perhaps other forum members would be interested in real world examples too. In particular - wet grip, ability to hold air over say a week, along with which sealant was used, and frequency of punctures (where they occur is useful as obviously ragging it down a flint hillside is asking for trouble with any tyre I would guess!)
TIA.
EDIT - just to add I'm not looking for a miracle cure for the CT - it's just that every little helps! 👍
I tried some handmade Challenge CX tubeless tyres and they were so tight I damaged my rims trying to get them on. Looked nice in the box though. Guess I just had a bad combination of big rim and tight tyre!
I also don't think you are going to address your problem via the slight differences between tyres as sounds like position of body weight and hands/arms would be more critical.
I’m running Rene Herse juniper ridge tyres. I’ve not had them long and have only ridden dry road/gravel/single tack so far.
I’m running them on hunt 650 gravel wheels. No issues with tubeless and seating the tyres, they went up really easy. Only issue I have is the front is losing pressure through the valve, not a tyre problem.
In the dry (as only tested in the dry) I cannot fault them, they are amazing and seem to be fast, much better than the spec pathfinders or WTB’s I’ve previously ridden.
I’m using Stans sealant but odd as it sounds, am new-ish to tubeless. Only started now I have some nice rims.
picture of my Diverge with Rene Herse. They are eye wateringly expensive
Vittoria Terreno dry TNT here. They are supposed to be 38s but size up bigger than the 40c Riddlers they replaced. The ones I have must be made of tissue paper as I've had 4 punctures in 4 weeks of infrequent use so far. 2 wouldn't seal so I've had to patch them. They roll well but overall I'm disappointed. I had Gravel King SS's for 18 months with zero issues, then they started getting punctures. Having said that, North Tyneside is a land paved with broken glass so punctures are so inevitable.
Following on from the previous thread, I’m a huge fan of both.
Ive raced crits and road races on Challenge Tyres. Comfort has been very very good. Grip in my opinion is very good for both wet and dry weather racing. Absolutely no way would I consider racing a poor performing tyre in a crit race in the rain. I’m talking about closed circuit and city / street races, so technical with lots of fast cornering. Constant fast corners, sprinting, climbing out of the saddle with high power (no rear tyre slipping).
Getting them on and off the rim….no issues. I only have limited use of my left arm. I struggle with Pro Ones and the older GP5000’s. My rims are mainly Bontrager, but I also had Reynolds 65mm rims that are notoriously difficult with tubeless tyres. Challenge tubeless tyres have been fine. Even after getting a nail in the tyre, it wouldn’t seal due to large hole, but I managed to get a tube in with the Bontrager rim strip still inserted, tyre seated no issues.
Have used a fair few Renee Herse tyres and never had an issue with them blowing of the rim. Grip has also been absolutely fine, but these tend to be on my gravel bike, 38mm and 42mm tyres. I’m not particularly expecting the grip to be on rails like I would do with a 27mm tyre.
But I do find that a bigger more compliant tyre tends to be softer. It’s going to cut up. They’re also going to be slightly slower than a gp5000. It completely depends where your priorities in a tyre lie. Speed and comfort, gp 5000, comfort before speed, Challenge. Comfort, Renee Herse wide and extra light….but bigger risk of punctures even tubeless.
In my view, GP5000 is the Goldilocks tyre. But my personal preference is for comfort being slightly higher elevated over speed, so Challenge for me. I also really really struggle with GP5000 tubeless on my rims. But that’s purely down to my rims and my lack of ability to remove those tyres from my rims….i don’t think I could put a tube in should I need to in an emergency mid ride.
Pro Ones I found ok, similar to the GP5000, good performance in all conditions, tight to get on and off but not as comfortable as challenge. They also wear out fairly quickly. But that’s just my use of them, other people will have had differing experiences.
Another really good tyre is the Bontrager R3 in a 32mm tubeless. They paired very well with my Bontrager rims. Fairly comfortable, I’d say from a longevity perspective they were my best performing tyres, but then lose out in speed to GP5000 and comfort to challenge.
I don’t think it’s possible to make a tyre as comfortable as Challenge tyres without accepting the fact that they’re going to cut up on really bad roads. And equally I don’t think you’ll be able to get tyres to be as resilient and fast as the GP5000 without reducing comfort.
Sealant wise, I tend to use whatever I have in. I probably use Orange or Stans the most. I did originally buy challenge sealant but don’t think it’s needed.
Wheels are 19mm internal (Reynolds), 21 and 23mm internal Bontrager. All carbon. And here’s a pic of my Aelous RSL wheels with the Challenge Strada Pro 27mm tyres. And I do think they look awesome and we all know that’s the most important part!
Vittoria I’ve not used for a while, they were pretty good. Not as fast as a GP5000, still not a slow or draggy tyre. Reasonably easy getting on and off my rims (tubeless as well). They maybe clincher above, but I ran both tlr and clincher over the years.
Never blown off. Good grip, raced on them for years. In fact my wet weather racing set up was carbon rims, aluminium brake track and Vittoria corse tyres. (White bike above)
And here’s them on a better looking bike….but not so good looking rims.
Re the Vittorias - missed the bit about sealant. I had Muc-off sealant left over from setting up 2 MTBs so used that. Its been perfect on the other bikes. Punctures were all on the main contact points, and I'm guessing glass cuts.
Here’s some more pics, you can see that the 27mm tyre fits the 23mm rim really well, no bulbous light bulb effect. And you can also see where the sealant has done its job in the second photo. Those tyres are well used, must be close to 600 miles, maybe more.
RH recommend this sealant for thin tyres...
The chap in the review didn't get on too well with it because of the mess he made!
Are those Challenge Strada 27mm @w00dster ?
Ignore that - I can see they are from your other pics. Nice pics/bikes btw! 🙂
The 27mm are very comfortable. A few nicks on the tyre but nothing bad. Here’s the only time the tyre didn’t reseal….
So do you reckon the 30mm Strada Pro is more or less comfortable than say the 36mm Strada Bianca which has a thicker sidewall and more puncture protection?
It’s really hard to recommend to be honest. They are perfect for me, but I may have less flinty roads. The 27mm Strada Pro’s do feel more comfortable (supple) than most 32mm’s I’ve ridden. But they are without doubt more prone to nicks. They’ve always sealed for me, but it’s hard to say if this is luck or not. I’ve had no issues with sidewall leakage or cuts.
I dont really ride them in the winter though. I tend to ride Bontrager R3 tubeless. Just because they’re on my winter bike rather than any concerns I have.
Vittoria Terreno dry TNT here. They are supposed to be 38s but size up bigger than the 40c Riddlers they replaced. The ones I have must be made of tissue paper as I’ve had 4 punctures in 4 weeks of infrequent use so far.
Not disputing your experience but it's the polar opposite of mine! The only punctures I've had on TNT Terrenos (grey sidewall, the tan wall is TLR) over the last couple of years gravel riding have been 2-3 pinch punctures at the bead from clumsy riding (or just bad luck, I never even felt one of them when it happened).
No main tread punctures other than minor cuts that I've only noticed because of a damp patch where the sealant had done its job. I ran them with latex tubes for the longest time and apart from maybe one or two pinch flats (no more than I've suffered when running tubeless) I had zero glass/thorn punctures.
Feels like a moot point though as I don't think the grey sidewall Vittorias really belong on the OPs list, the tan walls perhaps but I've never tried them as presumed they were less robust.
Top tip from Challenge to aid puncture protection in the winter/wet is to wipe the tyre with a rag soaked in vinegar. Apparently some of the chemicals in the rubber seep out and form a sticky layer on the tyre which retains debris and then glass/small stones eat into the tyre causing a cut. Vinegar wipe every few rides in the winter neutralises this.
I race challenge tubeless tyres on the cross and they're great, but too expensive (for me) for a riding around tyre. If you're racking miles the tread will wear pretty quick - maybe less of an issue with a light tread. No doubt they're good if you don't mind the cost.
Gravel rides are so mixed wrt surface that it's hard to define what exactly a good tyre should look like. You're generally way above the pressure where a performance tyre performs, so it's more durability, weight, cost etc
The new handmade challenge ones have a rep for being hard to mount - I just put a new set of baby limus on some 303s (hookless, plus an insert) and it was no prob, but have heard a few complaints.
Almost too much information to impart so I will resort to a list.
Vinegar on the tread is the same as used on the velodrome to restore tackiness to the rubber. I don't understand the chemical reaction but I do know it works.
Tyres what I have used, and notes.
Rene Herse/Compass
Barlow Pass - 5 years ago, didn't work well tubeless, great with a tube. Low pressures were best.
Steilacoom Extralite - Tore sidewall and punctured at the point tread met the sidewall when racing on rocky descents. My bad. Never felt any advantage from the extralite aspect.
Oracle Ridge Extralite - found that the tyres had a tendency to roll around the rim when on low pressures and off-camber. Otherwise great.
Snoqualmie Pass - standard casing, currently set up fine tubeless with Effetto cafe latex.
Challenge
Gravel Grinder HTLR - very tight to fit to rims, but otherwise great.
Strada Bianchi vulcanised - good fit, bit stiffer sidewalls, no issues tubeless. Softer tread than Rene Herse slicks.
Parigi-roubaix open tubular (clincher) with butyl and latex tubes. - good but puncture prone
Grifo, Grifo XS, Limus and Baby Limus tubulars for cyclocross racing - good and I used the XS through winter on the road.
Vittoria
Terreno Zero, Terreno Dry, Terreno Mix and Terreno wet in TLR, all went up great tubeless. Zero was disappointing in terms of drag. Mix was very narrow. Dry and Wet are favourites.
Terreno Wet tubular - very good.
Rubino TLR 30mm - excellent for winter rides
Corsa Control TNT - excellent but really expensive and harder to find.
Panaracer
GravelKing slick - puncture prone and stiffer sidewalls
GravelKing Semi-slick - rolls well, grips nicely on the corners and pretty handy on most winter lanes with leafy clart etc.
GravelKing SK - draggy and heavy. Did not like.
GravelKing all conditions/wet - shit.
Top info coming through here - thanks all. 🙂
So what I've decided to do is buy some Challenge Strava Pro HTLR in 30mm. I will put these on my 19mm wheels and see what happens. I decided that the Rene Herse will probably be more comfortable but not much different to the Challenge - would I notice? Who knows, probably not. Maybe if I bought the extra light casing but in the winter on roads in the north east UK they will likely end up full of holes and be too annoying as a result. Maybe the Stradas will as well but at least then I have a benchmark and I think they are possibly slightly more puncture resilient. In the mean time I have my other set of wheels with Specialized Pathfinders on which are OK on the roads and can be used until the summer if the Stradas are shit.
I have also bought some Panaracer SealSmart sealant to give that a go but it needs putting in with the tyre off the rim so it may be too messy if the tyre is tricky to seat. I'm going to seat it with no sealant in initially anyway so it get's some shape... Otherwise I reckon Stans Race is ging to be the stuff I'll use. I have Reserve Fillmore valves so hopefully the Stans will go through them (it does say not to inject through the valve though like the SealSmart...🤷♂️) - Actually has anyone used Stans Race and will it go through the valve?
Anyway - thanks to those who took the time to supply all the detailed info. Much appreciated. I am now significantly more informed about tyre quality and performance!
Can you not remove the valve core and syringe the sealant in following seating the beads? That's what I have done (touch wood) successfully on the whole four tubeless tyres I've fitted.
Normally I'd recommend buying the best tyre you can afford (normally the ones with the longest title). But after buying some cheap Continental tyres off Merlin I'm now not 100% convinced that there is actually much difference.
That Trek looks very nice 👍
Can you not remove the valve core and syringe the sealant in following seating the beads?
Yes, that would be normal practice but this stuff has specific instructions not to do that. It’s designed to seal thin walled tyres that cut easily and potentially leak sealant through the side walls. Apparently it succeeds where Stan’s and Orange sealant fails. I’ve only used Stans standard before and it failed to seal the sidewalls on my awful Specialized Mondos which was what started me out on this quest for comfort in the first place…
So, the Stradas have arrived and are fitted - just. They were a bit of a bugger to get on - not too bad though and I don't have much else to compare to since this is the first time I have fitted such narrow tyres onto anything so 🤷♂️. Impossible without tyre levers and some soapy water though. The 35mm Mondos I could get on and off by hand on the same wheels. I was definitely reluctant to use tyre levers on my carbon wheels but I have the plastic Schwalbe ones and I was very, very careful. They tyres did go on though, a cm at a time for the last 10cm. Needed the compressor to seat them and I used Schwalbe EasyFit solution so the beads snapped in no problem. LOADS of air coming out of the sidewalls though and making bubble bath proportions of foam from the Fairy/EasyFit solutions. No sealant in yet, I thought I would leave them seated on the rim overnight and then decide if removing one of the beads to pour the SmartSeal in is a good idea or not. If not I will use Orange Endurance and inject it through the valve. Hopefully it is good enough to seal the sidewalls....
So, quick update. After waiting months for some decent weather to do the tubeless setup and commissioning ride I decided to put some TPU tubes in and head out just to see what they ( the tubes and the tyres ) felt like. <br /><br />
Answer is very fast and comfortable, right up until I got a puncture 10 miles in. 🙄
It doesn't bode well. It was a tiny piece of flint that caused the puncture - I'd like to put it down to bad luck but I ride the exact same route frequently, all year round. I have ridden it twice this week already with Specialized Pathfinders on and this is the first time I have had a puncture. My Specialized Pathfinders take it all in their stride and certainly wouldn't have punctured with a tiny piece of flint. So much for the TPU tubes being more resilient! These were Ride Now tubes and I have no idea if they are any good. I gather that not all TPU tubes are made equal so.. undeterred I have put some (expensive) Vittoria TPU tubes in along with some (Nutrak OKO) TPU sealant. I might also wipe down with vinegar as I have read that this may help prevent flint/stones sticking to the tread and then working their way in and causing a puncture...
I had hoped the TPU tubes were gong to give me the best of both worlds - some degree of puncture protection as well as zero tubeless setup faff. Seems not. So out to test the tubes with sealant in tomorrow - slightly defeats the object of a light tyre with minimal rotational weight - each tube has 100ml of thick sealant in 🤷♂️. The tubes are only 30g each though. Still, the ride up until it ended was comfortable and fast, the tyres accelerated extremely well and grip wasn't too bad in the wet, the rear wheel locked up when I jabbed the brakes a bit harder than normal and the Pathfinders definitely would not have lost grip there but they were OK - I have read that grip improves after a few rides anyway. For info the Pathfinders are 38mm setup tubeless and the Stradas are 30mm.
It doesn’t bode well. It was a tiny piece of flint that caused the puncture – I’d like to put it down to bad luck but I ride the exact same route frequently, all year round.
D'oh! x 2
I've just bought some of those RideNow tubes too ☹️
Presumably if the tyre is tubeless ready it must have a reasonably thick carcass, i.e. it wasn't a paper thin tyre that allowed the flint through?
I got by really well with latex tubes in grey sidewall Vittoria tyres, then switched to some paper thin Continental CX tyres and had punctures ahoy...
Presumably if the tyre is tubeless ready it must have a reasonably thick carcass<br /><br />
Well you’d have thought so but I think it’s probably too thin. It’s a handmade Challenge Strada Pro TLR.
Went for a 70k road ride today on mainly A roads with the TPU tubes and OKO sealant in. No punctures, 👍 but I did pull a tiny piece of flint out of the tyre when I inspected them on my return - it was the same size (1mm) as the one that caused the puncture yesterday but there was no evidence of any sealant so I assume it didn't make it through the casing this time. Otherwise no damage at all to either tyre.
The ride was super super comfy. Whenever I rode over a slightly jarring lump it was so supple that I kept looking down to see if I had indeed picked up a puncture! It was fast too, in fact when I looked at my Strava from yesterday's ride I had three PB segments and I wasn't even trying to push it. The original PBs were on 35mm Specialized Mondos in the summer on dry roads. So if the Challenge Stradas can stay inflated for more than 5 mins at a time then I'll be very pleased to keep them. I am looking at some GP5000 s's or some Schwalbe Pro Ones for my other set of wheels so I will (hopefully) have something a bit more robust to use for rides where I know the surface will be worse than usual. I love the way the Stradas accelerate so I am hoping the GP or the Pro Ones will feel similar or better in terms of speed to make up for the missing comfort. I can't decide which ones to choose though....
Talking to myself here really and sort of using this thread as a diary but someone might also find the info useful so 🤷♂️!
Fitted some GP5000s’ in a 30mm size today. Goodness me they are easy to fit. I got them on easily by hand and courtesy of some Reserve Fillmore valves I seated them using a track pump and they held air well straight away. They measure 31mm once inflated. Quick squirt of 60ml Stan’s via the valve and out for a spin. No where near as plush as the Stradas but that was to be expected. They are quick though. They don’t feel as though they accelerate as well as the Stradas do so not quite as nice on a hill but once rolling they soon feel pacy, especially up past 10-15 mph. Some of that might just be my imagination because they aren’t as smooth, hard to tell for sure. I rode the same route and came back with 4 or 5 segment PBs according to Strava and again I wasn’t particularly pushing. I had them at 65psi (recommended pressure from the SRAM calculator) as opposed to 55psi on the Stradas. Grip was the same as the Stradas although I haven’t ridden either anywhere near the limit, just casual road riding.