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So I'm thinking of getting the significant parts to build up a geared bike for when my knees finally tell me enough is enough of the fixed and SS shinanagans. So canal paths, man made trails, forrest tracks, etc. Thinking Karate Monkey or Ogre but what hub gear? Nexus, Alfine or Rohloff? Have you tried them all? Can the Rohloff really be worth all that, which is simplest to fit / maintain?
Cheers
Alfine is a 300% gear range ( same as 1x9) for the 8sp. It just works. Gaps between gears are uneven some folk find it draggy but now I have run mine in and serviced it I don't find it noticeably so. It is a bit heavy
Nexus is basically an alfine without a disc mount
Alfine 11 I haven't used - seems like they are less reliable but 400% gear range (2x9)
Rohloff is virtually indestructible even in tandem use. It just works. ( 500% gear range 3x9) Again swome folk find them draggy but now mine is had 3 oil changes and a good few thousand miles on it its loosening up nicely. Similar weight to a 3x9 setup s well
ON all IHG shifting when pedalling especially down shifts are slower and more clunky compared with dérailleurs but you can shift multiple gearts at once and when stationary which makes up for it
Another advantage is drivetrains last much longer and are cheaper to replace
Rohloff is easiset to maintain - its just an oilchange. alfine 8 requires the cluster stripping out and dunking in an oil bath. all are easy to fit
Shimano Alfine 8 on a Surly Troll here. If getting again I'd prob get an Ogre.
I find it hard to justify the cost of a Rohloff, someone on here mentioned getting one second hand but I haven't seen one for sale, plus I'm not a fan of gripshifts.
The Alfine 8 has been great, especially for high mileage commuter/life bike type stuff. There are various advantages and disadvantages when compared to a derailleur set up, but I've yet to see another hub gear that has made me regret buying it- including the Alfine 11
Also seems to have fantastic longevity- so far it has outlasted two rims, one chainset (Middleburn, crank arm snapped), two pairs of pedals and countless tyres, chains, sprockets and chainrings. I reckon has been going for around 15,000-20,000 miles, which is good because that is supposed to be one of the main selling points 😉
I've got an Alfine 8spd that I use as a spare for my Krampus when I get bored/tired of SSing, or go somewhere with more hills.
I bought it second hand as a wheel set for about £100 (including shifter, some spares, and 2 or 3 cogs), and rebuilt it onto a wider 29" rim.
It's been faultless for the 2 years I've had it. I fact, I think that buying it 2nd hand meant that it had been nicely run in for me!
I just swap cogs between an 18t and a 22t if I need to set the gearing a bit higher or lower.
I have considered a Rohloff, especially since my mate Joe has one, and he swears by it. But the expense puts me off, and my Alfine just keeps on rolling away with no complaints.
*edit* Oh, and it's been axle deep in gritty mud, washed with a hose, and sometimes left dirty for weeks. Again, no reliability issues at all. The Alfine 8s do just seem to work.
Alfine 8 as mentioned. I've had one on a commuter hybrid fur the last 7 years. Stripped it once and degreased it with diesel and caliper cleaner, regreased and dunked in atf oil and its been perfect since.
It doesn't ride as lightly as a normal geared setup but it's been bombproof for me. I'm still on the same chain that it started with !
Thank you, something to think about. I've never had gears, could someone with an OK grasp of building up SS bikes get to grips with fitting the gear gubbins.............
alfine is really simple. Remove rear wheel, fit now one. fit gear shifter to bars, run cable
I would say so. There are bolts which you select to hold the unit at the correct angle in the axle slot on the frame which you need to get right.
There is loads of info on the web about them. No harder than a full set of gears that's for sure.
I've never fitted a full set of gears......:)
I used an alfine 8 on a tour of the PCH Canada - Mexico, fully loaded touring, didn't miss a beat, still rides lovely 🙂
flashes - Member
Thank you, something to think about. I've never had gears
Something you might not like about the Alfine hub is the "soft" engagement, which is especially noticable if you're coming from something like a Hope Trials hub, or Chris King. Well, I think it's the worst thing about the Alfine (that and the weight) but I'm told I tend to "ratchet" more than lots of people do, so I suppose I notice it.
The other thing that takes a bit of getting used, to with any type of gears, is that you no longer have that instinctive knowledge of exactly where a pedal stroke will take you to - maybe other folk never thing about it though.
I'm seriously envious of you having never ridden geared bikes - I'd just keep on riding singlespeeds, if I was you. It must feel as natural as breathing........
As a singlespeeder I think you'll find the Alfine 8 has more than enough range. I have a hardtail SS and full sus Alfine and they both suit me down to the ground.
I know Andy R mentions the 'soft engagement' and I think I know what he means, but both SS and Alfine have a very similar 'ride'; that being a quiet and simple drivetrain with minimal fuss, fettling and fragility.
Have tried 3 speed (Sturmey and Sram) on and off road. Really like the ratio gaps off road (basically gives hill ratio, normal ss ratio and road ratio), but find them annoyingly big on road so went back to ss for commute. 135mm Sturmey chainline not great. Sealing pretty poor but they somehow seem to last. Depending on the shift cable type, you might also need a cable stop in a non-standard place.
Had a Nexus 5 speed on a bike I bought on impulse in Denmark. Ratios ok, felt a little draggy and didn't like the rattly rollercam brake. Fitted it to my sister-in-law's commuter in place of derailleur (4 years ago) and she absolutely loves it - would never go back. Total neglect and just needs occasional cable adjustment (easy, same as Alfine - line up coloured dots).
Have an Alfine 8 speed, not currently using it but will sometime build into a 29er wheel (currently 26). Not found the degrease and soak in ATF made much difference. Not a big fan of the "soft" feel but it isn't a deal breaker. Almost totally silent which can be good (cheeky trails) and bad (spooks walkers). You can mix around the different colour coded anti-turn axle washers to direct the gear cable route to best suit your bike. Have ridden Swiss Alps and Fred Whitton route on Alfine so definitely not fragile or overly draggy.
I've used alfine 8's since they first became available (2008?). Sold my first bike after probably 5000 miles and bought a genesis day one.
The alfine 8 on that eventually went at around 25000 miles - when you put the power down from stationary it would slip. Had it professionally serviced twice.
Bought a new replacement off eBay and swapped the internals into my existing wheel that I built 9 months ago - good as new.
I suspect a big part of my old hub failing was riding it in sub zero temperatures - I was caught out a few times and the gear cable froze, leading to some bad shifts that probably damaged the hub.
For commuting in crappy weather they are ideal.
Why do 8's seem to get better reviews than the 11's?
flashes - they seem to be stronger and shift better from what I have heard
So if an 8sp Alfine is like a 1x9 setup what's a sturmey archer 3sp setup like, I'd like the big gear to be fairly big as I live in the flatlands of Cambridgeshire.
Can the Rohloff really be worth all that,
Well mine is 11 years old in June. It has spent two years commuting on road and nine off road all year round. It has had the following including those it came with:
10 oil changes
3 rear sprockets, still running on number 3
3 chains, still running on number 3
2 chains
The shifter cables were still working after nearly 9 years, they were only changed as I sent it back to Rohloff to have it upgraded to a disk brake hub. At that time the hub shell bearings were replaced free of charge as they'd developed a very small amount of play.
I'm don't know if I've saved any money over 11 years but I've saved days of my life. The bike just goes away muddy and wet and the only maintenance other than an annual oil change is old gearbox oil on the chain when it needs it. I never do more than wipe a rag over the chain either and only then when I want to oil it.
tails - IIRC 200% gear range in a 3 sp SA hub so something like a 1x9 road cassette? but obviously with much bigger gear jumps
nuvinci hubs are excellent, Not the lightest of hubs but being stepless they are superb.
Can the Rohloff really be worth all that,
New, possibly not - they're over £1k, right? I bought mine secondhand as a whole wheel for half that and had it for 3 years. It worked fine, never had a problem; when I decided to switch back to derailleurs, I sold it for pretty much what I bought it for. At that price I figured it was worth it, given the bulletproof reliability
not quite that much nicko - I think avdave above is probably in credit now. I know I am getting close with mine. 1 chain and no sprockets or cassettes in 4 years ish - compared to a complete drivetrain a year or so so saving around £100 a year in drivetrain costs
Why do 8's seem to get better reviews than the 11's?
I've seen a lot of people on the interwebs complaining about how temperamental the 11 is which put me off. Needs to be set up *just right*, that sort of thing
nicko74, out of interest, why did you swap back??
"tails - IIRC 200% gear range in a 3 sp SA hub so something like a 1x9 road cassette? but obviously with much bigger gear jumps"
Thanks
shermer75 - Member
Also seems to have fantastic longevity- so far it has outlasted two rims, one chainset (Middleburn, crank arm snapped), two pairs of pedals and countless tyres, chains, sprockets and chainrings. I reckon has been going for around 15,000-20,000 miles, which is good because that is supposed to be one of the main selling points
A few years back, to celebrate their anniversary Rohloff asked if anyone had a hub that had done 100,000km. They were swamped with offers. I'm waiting to see a derailleur manufacturer do that... 🙂
I'm in the process of lacing my Rohloff into a wheel for my gravel bike right now. I've had it 12 years but only got 500 miles on it - couldn't stand the coffee grinding feeling in low gears. However I hung on to it for when I got old and frail. That time seems to have arrived so the singlespeed is going on light duties, ie road.
flashes - Member
Why do 8's seem to get better reviews than the 11's?
They showed an exploded view when it was released. I predicted trouble - it looks a bit lightweight on one of the gear trains.. 🙂
But it is Shimano, so I'd expect they would have sorted it by now. Anyone know the latest?
From a singlespeed perspective the Sturmey-Archer 3 speed is great.
Gear the middle gear (direct) just like your single speed and then top is usefully higher, and low makes a difference on a long grind.
It's also light enough that your singlespeed doesn't feel compromised for weight.
Basically your normal gear plus one for uphill and headwinds, and one for tailwinds and downhill.
Alfine 8 - Great
Rohloff - Great
Alfine 11 - Temperamental, oh and the Versa road shifter, don't.
Mate of mine has an alfine 11 with the versa shifter, I've ridden it, the hub is great, the shifter less so.
It felt fragile when new and can only get worse over time.
If i was getting an 11, id go for the jtek shifter on drop bars, and the shimano one on flat bars.
My experience (of 1 hub) is that it needs setting up exactly, but does work well.
My mate uses his for loaded touring, or to pull a trailer with his son in it.
Would i buy one? Yeah
If like me you prefer twist shifters the nexus twist shifter works with the alfine 8. Much better than the lever shifter IMO and it makes it easier to drop a whole load of gears at once
I'll soon be selling an Alfine 11 Di2 hub if it's of any interest. Silver 32h. Bare hub only. Only changing because I've bought an otherwise identical black hub so it matches my front.
I 🙄 at myself regularly...
Saving this for interest 🙂
I have run both 11 speed SG700 & the 8 speed S700 for MTB'ing. The 11 is much more susceptible to cable adjustment & gives the occasional slips & graunches when a small bit of dirt gets between the cable & actuator drum. My 11 is now dead after the disc mount cracked off the main hub, the internals still seem OK though but the hub bodies are not available. The 8 speed S700 has been faultless & seems bombproof with no issues, yes it's a little more draggy than a derailleur set-up but practically zero maintenance, just ride it, put it in the shed & forget 'til next time. The S7000 shifter is the "normal" way around too, unlike the SG500/1 which is reverse normal. I'd recommend the 8 but steer clear of the 11 for MTB'ing. 8's have more metal around the disc mount too so hopefully will hang together.
Our experience -
Alfine 11 pissed oil everywhere even after going back to Shimano twice (one of which was a replacement).
Alfine 8 feels draggy to me
Rohloff is definitely the best of them. They last forever and Rohloff support and spares are available if you need them. You'll only ever buy one Rohloff.
I have Alfine 8 & Versa shifters on my commuter and would replace it with the same if it ever dies.
IIRC the Alfine 8 uses straight cut gears but the 11 Has helical cut gears. Thus gives you smoother running but at the expense of increased wear and drag.
Evesie - Member
...My 11 is now dead after the disc mount cracked off the main hub, the internals still seem OK though but the hub bodies are not available...
What are you doing with it? I wouldn't mind dissecting one.
My 11 is now dead after the disc mount cracked off the main hub, the internals still seem OK though but the hub bodies are not available.
What are you doing with it? I wouldn't mind dissecting one.
When you say "dissecting" does that involve fitting it to a rim-braked wheel? 😉
I thought I would look out another dead hub to put my guts into or possibly sell internals to someone who has a dead hub. When the disc mount cracks off it takes the LHS wheel bearing bore with it so no good for rim brake either.
When the disc mount cracks off it takes the LHS wheel bearing bore with it
Ouch!
I take it all back. My Shimano Alfine hub has just died!
If the Alfine 8 shell is compatible and I can't fix it then you could prob have this one. It might be a bit of a wait though! 🙂
What has happened?
You can get new main bearings or a new cluster to go in the hub
So wait, which Alfine has the helical gears and is that better or worse for drag?
I really really want a hub geared bike as I want to fit a Heebie chain glider so I can be basically mud proof. I am worried about drag though. I realise Rohloff are less draggy but how much? Finding a grand is going to be a big ask. Plus I don't care for grip shift.
I'd put up with 8sp if it meant less drag.
11 speed has helical gears, I haven't heard any mention of either one being more or less draggy.
I wouldn't say that the dragginess is super noticeable- things like tyre choice make a much bigger difference.
The drag is a funny thing Molgrips - various people have measured it and come up with very conflicting answers but more drag exspecially in the lowest / highest gears would seem to be true
I have both an alfine 8 and a rohloff. I don't feel any extra drag but I am slower on the bikes with them. could be tyres etc as much as the hub
also both of them have loosened up and got less draggy as they have got older - the rohloff in particular is still running in at several years and a good few thousands of miles. also my alfine now runs in ATF with grease on the main bearings not a total grease lube - this has seemingly reduced drag.
If you are worried about drag then a hub gear might not be for you. Epicyclics will always have drag
Well that's just it. I'd put up with it if it's small, but if it's big it would annoy me. Especially on a long day out.
I need to ride one first, don't I?
Both the 11 & 8 I have more losses than a dérailleur set-up. This is particularly noticeable when free-wheeling. This is easily shown up when you have the bike up on a stand, spin up the cranks/wheel & then stop the cranks & the wheel will stop way before a dérailleur wheel has even thought about slowing down. But hey, more exercise, less brake wear & a non-hub gear bike feels really fast when you get back on one. My hub gear bike is for my daily off-road commute, winter mud, just put in the shed covered in s..t & forget bike - I love it.
evesie - that i would disagree with - freewheeling my alfine is as good as any other bike - no drag whatsover. The rohloff has a bit freewheeling. I guess yours needs a service if its draggy freewheeling
What you wanting it for molgrips? to me the drag is irrelevant as it only makes me a few % slower if at all and I don't care I am doing 12 mph not 13 when out for a pleasure ride
How much is a lot? I don't notice it when I am riding at all.
My Rohloff is going back on my HT.
It' did a seasons guiding in Morocco & then a few yrs duty as a winter bike.
It'll get an oil change, a new chain & sprocket.
I'm very curious to see how it feels....
Evesie - Member
Both the 11 & 8 I have more losses than a dérailleur set-up....
The drag figures I've seen for derailleurs have been for a clean, unworn drivetrain and they are only marginally better than a good hubgear.
Add a bit of wear or good old British clag, and I'm sure there wouldn't be much difference.
The 8 speed Alfine is a very nice feeling hub, and if you don't need ultralow gears for climbing walls or lugging 50kg touring loads, then it's not worth paying for more hub than the Alfine 8. (I wouldn't buy the Alfine 11 except for a road bike because you can't gear it lower than the 8 without repercussions).
they are only marginally better than a good hubgear.
A good hub gear in this case being... The 8sp? Is it less draggy than the 11sp?
I guess if it feels more positive then that is probably more important psychologically.
molgrips - Member
'they are only marginally better than a good hubgear.'
A good hub gear in this case being... The 8sp? Is it less draggy than the 11sp?
I haven't ridden an 11 speed, so I really don't know. The 8 speed feels less draggy than my Rohloff though - but apparently that's an illusion caused by the slight noise the Rohloff makes in low gears. (I'm hypercritical of transmission noises - I'm usually on a singlespeed)
I think the drag thing is as much psychological as real but I have seen testing figures that show hub gears with similar performance to dérailleurs and also much worse
Also hub gears get less draggy with age - with the rohloff this is really noticeable but my alfine is much smoother and less draggy than it was when new as well- partly probably down to the fact I oil bath it every year so its not full of old dried up grease
I've used a rohloff for the past few years on a sir9 frame as a winter bike and its been great. It is currently on our tandem, but I am seriously thinking of getting hold of another secondhand hub, as having used a derailleur geared bike this winter I am sick of the extra maintenance they require in the mud. I haven't used an alfine, but would happily recommend a rohloff to anyone.
I found over time that the original grease in mine dried up a little and it became sluggish both in shifting and dull feeling under drive.
The full degrease and atf relube completely changed the feel of it to be far far less draggy in feel. Shifting has become much crisper and under drive its like you feel the gears meshing in together.
After having an Alfine 8 and going back to gears (bought a complete bike for once....) I wish I could afford a Rohloff Thur axel hub as the engagement of the Alfine had spoilt me was magic compared to the bag of balls hubs my bike has fitted atm.
Couldn't say I noticed and untoward drag took it across Dartmoor fine.
Hiya.
Also Alfine 8 curious for the old Rockhopper.
What's the smallest gear you can realistically run without damaging the unit?
Would like something under 20" if poss.
Interesting thread, thanks.
At the strathpuffer I ran mine on something ridiculously low. IIRC 26 chainring and 22 rear cog - something like that. 1st was around the same ratio as a granny gear on a 3x9 mtb setup ( normal MTB gearing for an alfine would be 32 / 16 ish
I wasn't mashing the pedals tho. there appears to be no lower gear limit set by shimano for ther 8spd
Slight tangent, but my trusty Alfine 8 slipped today, nearly sending me over the handle bars. First time in 1000's of km's....