[Closed] Comparable to a Cotic Soul?

Ive always liked my Orange P7.

nope.

I have an old (mid 90s, pre long travel geometry) P7 with Pace RC36s and still love it. Looking for something with a more modern geometry and disk compatible. A bit more ragable.

Miss my Five but it was probably too much bike for most of my riding and I was forever wondering whether the shock was too firm/soft etc. Now, with a small child, I need something I can throw a leg over without fuss.

Uh huh. Sanderson Breath or Life. [b]£300[/b] Cheaper than a Soul as well from[url= http://www.thebikechain.co.uk/Sanderson-Breath-Blue-LTD-18-201111280115/ ]TheBikeChain in Edinburgh[/url], A very few mm difference here and there on the geometry, loving it so far.
[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7114/7021535491_ec4b73ac83.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7114/7021535491_ec4b73ac83.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/matt_outandabout/7021535491/ ]Where did the singletrack go?[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/matt_outandabout/ ]matt_outandabout[/url], on Flickr

I bought my Soul because there was something about it that reminded me of my early 90s Bonty RaceLite - fast, comfy, strong, light (enough) and durable. And I've got to say, it's ****ing ace.

If you want a classic steel frame in a modern guise you'll love the Soul. You can even fit forks that work in the cold 🙂

[img] https://twitter.com/#!/_JRUK_/status/185064018812207104/photo/1/large [/img]

http://www.bikescene.co.uk/Orange-R8-Frame-3977-107-0.html

Orange R8 Frame £350

but I have a Soul and love it...

it's the only bike that i own that i'd replace if it broke, everything else would get changed.

Ive ridden lots of bikes and tend to be very fickle, changing them with the seasons.
I honestly believe the quest for the 'right' bike ended when I finally splashed out on my Soul.
On the very first ride I realised what the fuss was about. Impeccable handling, responsive, skips over obstacles, loads of standover, strong.
I love it.

I thought long and hard about the Sanderson Breath/Scion, but ran the risk of being a sheep instead. This time theres a reason for the hype.

What is the obsession with this brand?.. bit like early 90's Kona's

No obsession. Just works.

manitou - Member
What is the obsession with this brand?.. bit like early 90's Kona's

slainte ❓ rob

Comparable to a Cotic Soul?

Nothing

it's the only bike that i own that i'd replace if it broke, everything else would get changed.

This!

Mine just feels right. Can't really put my finger on it, but it is, put simply, the bike I've most enjoyed riding in years. I've now had it for 3 years, and can't imagine wanting to replace it for a long time yet.

it's the only bike that i own that i'd replace if it broke, everything else would get changed.

[img] [/img]

I agree with all that has been said about the Soul. I have one and it is excellent.

However, I actually prefer my BFe! If you can live with the extra weight then the Bfe is everything the Soul is but can take more hammer downhill. For rides less than 2 hours, the Bfe is a better tool, for me.

Souls definitely have a strong and loyal following. You might also consider a Dialed Prince Albert, limited edition 853 "Classic" just launched. If you want something a bit more chuckable there is the BFe from Cotic too.

What is the obsession with this brand?

in a nutshell:

853 = great feel, spring, weight savings
great geometry = great handling
great details (wishbone stay etc)= great look, cable routing etc
british = cool
orange paint = best colour for a bike
finish = better than most cheapo's

The whole package just rides so well, it inspires confidence and feels strong yet spritely.

bfe also sounds good, doubt I could justify the hardcore nature though, im a plodder not a superstar.

I got a soul a couple months ago after having an orange five for a couple of years and I haven't touched the five since. The soul is an amazing frame and I'm riding everything on it just as fast as I would with the five. I'm keeping hold of the orange for light DH duties now, but for anything XC it will always be on the soul.

I have had a carbon 456 for a year after a steel and titanium hard tail and a whyte 46. Can honestly say the c456 is the best handling of the bunch and is really comfortable. I looked at the soul when I bought it but the lighter weight really appealed to me. I run. Float 140 with shimono mt15 wheels ( cheap but suprisingly good) and full xt and it come up nice and light.

Soul Owner here of 4 years..

They are just brilliant .. cant say exactly what it is so i just assume its everything...

I always thought before buying that all the blah was just fan boy talk and just thought it will be a nice bike... 😆 guess im a fan boy now..

whats wierd though is that i seem to like it more and more as time goes by where normally i get used to stuff and stop appreciating why i liked it in the first place.. so maybe these things really do have a Soul after all....

Get one Now.... you will have it for years...
the fact that they are also the best looking steel Hard Tail on earth also helps

As already said above, nothing is comparable to a Soul other than a Soul. Weirdly the last good bike I owned (realised after selling it and trying loads of other bikes) was a 1992 Kona Explosif with rigid P2 forks. Early interviews with Cy revealed that he based the Soul on the very same model and tweaked it. The last time I went for a blast on my Soul I was clearing huge rooty sections at speed and making small adjustments in position and the bike just seemed to be connected to me, a part of me. I don't beleive the Soul is overpriced. What I like about it is that if you look hard enough on the net you will find enough interviews with Cy and enough detailed tech breakdown that explains why every single part of the Soul is designed the way it is. You won't get that with any other cheaper 853 frame available on the market.

If you appreciate steel frames it is the best frame out there. Even better than custom built, because at the end of the day the builder is either going to build just what you want, or will think he knows better than you. In my mind Cy has spent a considerable amount of time researching bikes and knows best.

Another Orange 5 owner here - two months with a Soul and I haven't stopped grinning!!! Haven't ridden the 5 either for that time - although it is good as well 🙂

I had a 853 Inbred (now sold) and have been riding a Soul for around 2years, to be honest they were very similar and I struggled to find much difference in the ride between the two.

Only thing I could say is that the sizing with Cotic is better for me as I suit a 19" frame, whereas with the 18" Inbred I always seemed to have too much post showing.

Also the Soul has a much better finish.

wierd .. i also loved my early 90's Kona Explosif and its the only bike ive ever regretted selling .. i didnt know that Cy had developed it based on those ..
so i guess that means i actually know what i like without realising what it is that i actually like...i think anyway 😕

How about a pipedream Sirus or Scion ?
They are also made from 853 with nice geo & slightly cheaper.
Also more rare to see, if you like that sort of thing.

Hmm, there seems to be a common thread through all this... I too had a Kona Explosif (mid 90's). I loved that bike and not just because I did my best riding on it. It got nicked and I still miss it.

The Soul feels a lot like how I remember it but updated for todays riding. I love it, its a no nonsense bike that just feel right. There's a lot of people who have been a little wary of the 'hype' but been happy enough with the results when they got one...

[url= http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6191/6086703214_0f3a0f0c17_z.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6191/6086703214_0f3a0f0c17_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/sofaboytt/6086703214/ ]Soul G1[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/sofaboytt/ ]Sofaboy TT[/url], on Flickr

Go on, you know you want to really....

My Soul has a 2011 Revelation up front. This combination has led to nearly perfect weight balance in the bike. As a result it handles exceptionally predictably, espcially when lauching off drops and jumps.

That combined with the compliant ride and perfect geometry means the bike practically rides itself. I regularly am shocked when I ride obstacles that I consider at the top of my ability, and the bike just makes them feel so simple. It's a ridiculously good bike.

I owned a Mk1 Soul for 6 years, no complaints. I then got a lot of money and it burned a hole in my pocket so I bought an FS. I loved it and sold my trusty old Soul. I always found myself comparing my FS, which was easily three to four times more expensive, to my old Soul. When the FS bust I was kind of secretly glad to have an excuse to get a Soul back. Now I will never sell my Soul again!

They are good, cracking geometry which most people tend to spoil by fitting overly long forks.

Get a Soul. I spent ages researching longer travel steel hardtails but I only ever really wanted a Soul.

Mine seems to be in the air all the time of the slightest thing. Corners on rails.

Funny but it was after getting a Kona Kilauea for a commuter, then riding it off road that led me to a Soul.

One alternative you might like is the Genesis Latitude 853, a bit cheaper but still 853 and near the Soul on weight

Only just joined the 'soul club', really pleased with it. One nice touch is the replaceable rear hanger, which is unusual for steel frame. Only ridden a couple of times but already know this a frame i will not be changing (unless it brakes i will get another!)

What's your set up David, and what do you ride on it?

@OP - I have a CEN Soul and am very happy with it. I can't advise you on alternatives because I didn't ride any. I decided I wanted a new Ti HT, settled on a Soda, decided they were too expensive and bought a Soul. There's enough momentum behind the thing, and enough people on here who love them, that it's hard for it to be a wrong decision.

That's not to say there aren't other frames out there just as good, there probably are. But who has time to try them all properly? It's not even viable really for the average punter to try out a bunch of steel frames on a like-for-like build.

If you're near Surrey and 5'8" less you're welcome to try it.

I'm thinking about getting a piglet frame, have any of you Soul owners tried a piglet to compare? Will I be stupid in not saving more to afford the soul???

I had a 853 Inbred (now sold) and have been riding a Soul for around 2 years, to be honest they were very similar and I struggled to find much difference in the ride between the two.

I also own an Inbred 853 (s/s) and I love it to bits. It doesnt turn in as sharp as the Soul but matches it in most other areas. I agree that the finish isnt as good as a Soul.
If you want to ride twisty trails the Soul wins hands down, but for some reason I love the Inbred so much that I wont ever sell it either.

To OP, as above, if youre near Surrey youre welcome to try mine (19").

You would not be stupid buying a Soul but I'm sure you would not be stupid buying a Piglet either.

I betr you'd have as much fun on either.

there's alot to be said for a cheaper build that does the job.

if youre keen on a sprinkling of 'je ne sais quoi', then its worth saving.

I currently ride a standard Inbred and often yearn for a Soul......has anyone ridden both? Is there that much difference?

LapSteel,

Yes I Had a 456 Inbred for a few months and thought it was terrible,

It just felt like a lump, dead to pedal dead to ride uninspiring to own... it was just Tubes welded together IMO.. i was very dissapointed with it,granted it was only £140 so ya get what ya pay for but i could really tell i was riding a very cheap bike which of course it was , when i got the Soul it just highlighted how poor the inbred was in every way....lots of folk love them so just my 2p..
Value for money wise i sold the inbred for £80 so it cost me £60 for a few months , i still have the Soul after 4 years and will keep it until it die's "if it ever does" so its been way better value for money for me and would instantly buy another should the need arise..

[b]Telemaster18[/b]I'm thinking about getting a piglet frame, have any of you Soul owners tried a piglet to compare? Will I be stupid in not saving more to afford the soul???

it's the only bike that i own that i'd replace if it broke, everything else would get changed.

Totally.

I think the best way to describe it is that it's a cheer you up bike. Every time I ride it there's at least one moment in the ride where I think 'Blimey, this is good'.

As already said above, nothing is comparable to a Soul other than a Soul.

Huge difference there.....

Chameleon.

I have 456 and love it...but I only got it cause I couldn't afford the Soul. While I will prob never get rid of the 456, I do long for a Soul...sometimes wish I would have saved for one.

When I put together what I would want in a custom hardtail some 10yrs ago it came out to what the Soul is. If I were you I'd just get one, I know I wish I could go back and do the same.

pipedream scion 853 steel very nice ride

This is probably blasphemy but I much prefer the ride of my Inbred than the Cotic Soul. The Soul felt a bit unsure in the corners whilst the Inbred just seems to beg you to slam it into the corners as fast as possible and it rails them. The Soul felt a bit too soft in the back end to me when I tried to corner it hard. One thing I did really like about the Soul was that it had a really springy, spritely feel like it just wants to keep going. The Inbred feels a bit more 'agricultural' but I just love the way it handles.

The Soda's comparable to the Soul. 🙂

I too used to have a Kona - a 1999 Pahoehoe I think; alu frame, but still with the classic geometry. It was only in hindsight that I realised how 'right' it was to ride; it was great on everything really, with the highlight being riding it in Moab.
I replaced it with a Ti hardtail that really couldn't replicate it at all, and sucked a lot of the fun out of riding. And then somehow convinced myself that despite having bought the Ti hardtail as 'the last bike I need to buy', I should buy a Soda instead.

It's put all the fun back in riding; it's so hard to put my finger on why, but again, it just feels 'right' for me.

My advice would be to get a Soul rather than looking for something 'comparable'.
I was a bit dubious about all the 'hype' and um-ed and ah-ed about getting one. Eventually gave in about six weeks ago and I finally get it. There's just something about the Soul. Riding it makes you smile from ear to ear, it's just so much fun. Really confidence-inspiring, amazing handling, just a brilliant bike. Get one!

At the risk of being bludgeoned to death the next time I see a someone on a Soul (judging by the almost fanatical love-in), I tried one, then bought a Handjob. I find it slacker, more forgiving and more fun than the Soul.
Paint's rubbish, though.

GJ, was your Soul one of the '05-'07 ones with thinner stays?

Love my Soul, had it just over a year. Doing the Enduro 1 race series on it this year, one XC race also planned, ragging it round singletrack and working on bigger air (getting past 4' drops and dealing with gap jumps of any sort).

More SoulLove here. I have lots of bikes and if they were broken would probably end up changing to something else but now that I have had a Soul for a while I would be surprised to find myself without one. Just such a nice bike to ride around on and so uncomplicated. As someone else said, on every ride there is always a point when you think 'that was nice'.

it's my perfect UK trail bike.

I'm in the same position as the OP. Looking for a 'trail' HT frame. My shortlist is Ibis Tranny, Pace RC104, C456 or a Soul. One of the best bikkes I ever owned was a 96 Kona Kilauea and after seeing how the Soul compares against the Kona I'm not quite so sure about a Tranny.

I just have to echo most of the comments on this thread. The soul, built tough and light is the best hardail......scrub that, the best mountain bike I've every owned. I've ridden other 853 frames, 150/140 trail bikes, alu hardtails etc for over 15 yrs but its the soul that keeps me smiling.

No you cannot get a Soul. As you are my brother and we already own a PX Uncle John each and so far have managed to not ride together but if the inevitable happens people will start whistling Rolf Harris 2 little boys at us. 😆 Go for it mines super fantastic and it will give us an idea who really is the fittest. 😉

853 = great feel, spring,

fanboy drivel, internet bullshit* myth.

853 (and all other fancy steels) feel the same as generic steels, even mild steel, as E varies by less than 10%. But if you built an MTB out of mild steel tubes in 853 tube profiles it wouldn't last very long!

I am not a Soul owner but wish I was. I bought a 456 because it was cheap to use as a second bike to my FS. It was ok and I rode it a lot but then stupidly had a test ride on a Soul. Not a spin round a car park but an hour or so on well known trails which conviced me I should have waited until I had enough dosh for a soul, which is what I am doing now! I dont hate the 456 as much as some posters but it is fairly uninspiring and feels a bit like a tank, nearly as heavy as well.
I know all the things people on here say about weight but when you have been out for 5 hours and there is a final brutal push those few pounds really feel significant.

The Soul is an excellent frame.

I have ran the following steel framed bikes Handjob, Blizzard and P7, the Blizzard came close but still prefer the Soul. I now own a Soda which is amazing but needed a bike for messing around on, got an old Soul frame off here, put 120mm forks on it and love it all over again. My son has a Bfe with 130mm forks and that is also brilliant fun, I prefer the Soul for longer rides though.

I have always found the customer service to be excellent from Cotic which is a bonus.

Thanks, everyone, for your input and offers to throw a leg over. Unfortunately I'd be after a small size and southern UK is a bit of a schlep. Lots of Soul love it seems. I think it's going to come down to a Cotic Soul or a Pipedream Scion. Anyone here ridden both?

Also attracted by Pipedream's "bundles" arrangement that sounds like they may be able to put together a good value component package too.

As suggested, the inbred - both std and 456 - are have a burlier feel than the Soul. The Soul is, as siad, springier and livlier than either. The Inbreds need to be ridden hard to be appreciated, especially the 456, which is a brute. I'm a big fan of the 456, the only downside is it's heavy.

If you want something light, springy and comfy then the Soul is your frame.

If you want something burlier and tougher, that likes to be thrashed then get a 456 or a BFe.

MrSmith, if you're using an air hardened heat-treated steel then you have totally different options available to you as regards the shape and thickness of the tubing, so there are plenty of non-bullshit reasons why the frame will end up feeling different to one built out of something else, with the same intended purpose.

ex 456 owner here

I wanted a Soul ( I had a simple at the time) but at the time they were £470 and the 456 was £125, twas a case of money talks bullshit walks £345 was a hell of a chunk of money to save.

So a 456 it was

The 456 made me ride well beyond my performance envelope and I crashed alot, it handled superbly but felt harsh and to be honest the back end hurt.

Anyway I got a deal on a CEN Soul and snapped it up sold the 456 for £95 a £30 loss in 2 years cannot be faulted

So the Soul I always ride in a higher gear than on the 456 the handleing is er not safer for me because the ride is smoother and it does not kick me off when I push too hard.

Bang for the Buck 456, but if you want a quality smooth ride with a bike that just winds up and goes everywhere The Soul wins

Go for a Soul

Mr Smith = Never ridden 853. Especially in Soul Flavour.

Mmm, my favourite.

Got a soul - fantastic - but amidst all the lurve I would say that the paint job is more easily damaged than any bike I've ever ridden..

Just seems to be sooo much softer and easily scratched and scuffed than I'm used to. For example I've got a black 'un. Washing the mud off using a car body work brush seems to leave deep scratches all over the paint. Not that fussed coz its a great ride but just thought I'd mention it.......

Thanks for all the kind words. Really, properly made up reading this thread.

grittyshaker - We're in the Peak District ourselves, and if you can get down on 14th April for our demo I'll put some proper tyres on the my wife's small Soul for you to have a shot on. Drop me an email if you're keen.

Got towards the end of my 85km ride yesterday on my 25.5lb, 130mm forked, 1x9 geared soul and it had flown up the 1700m of climbing and when it came to the final descent it carried on flying. Actually thought to myself as I skipped over the roots at 25 mph "yeah this bike really is good and it wasn't just internet hype". Handled brilliantly on all xc stuff, and was surprised how stable it felt hammering down the descent. very very happy with it.

I have to admit, I'm hugely tempted by a Soul. But the price tag is more than I paid for my entire bike brand new. And my bike has been nothing short of excellent. Ok you're liable to loose an eyeball on a fast rocky descent, purely from the vibration, but aside from that it's faultless.

Is it really worth an extra £470 to soak up a bit of trail buzz? There must be some very good alternatives at least, with a more affordable price tag?

😯

MrSmith, if you're using an air hardened heat-treated steel then you have totally different options available to you as regards the shape and thickness of the tubing, so there are plenty of non-bullshit reasons why the frame will end up feeling different to one built out of something else, with the same intended purpose.

well aware of that fact but with frames of 'identical dimensions'
a change in wall thickness but with the same O/D dimensions isn't going to be felt when riding especially with a 2.3 tyre at 30psi.

Mr Smith = Never ridden 853. Especially in Soul Flavour.

a wrong assumption.

853 is not a wondermaetal in the same way Ti doesn't equal a 'bike for life'

[img] [/img]

Yes MrSmith, all frames feel exactly the same, so just choose one that comes in a colour you like. Ignore the material… just pick a pretty one.

Yes MrSmith, all frames feel exactly the same, so just choose one that comes in a colour you like. Ignore the material… just pick a pretty one.

That's what I did when I bought my Soul. I still look at it admiringly when I'm not riding it. I think it's stunning looking bike, I love the wrap decals. So well done you. 🙂 Didn't hurt that everyone says how great a ride it is...

The headtube badge is the only thing I'd change though, to something 'cleaner'.

Sorry, that was facetious. I stand by my point though: the choice of steel used gives the frame designer a different set of options. Whether they choose to use that to create a different "feel", and whether any of us can appreciate the difference, is up for discussion.

[img][url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7022/6543086177_9a6d8178be.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7022/6543086177_9a6d8178be.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/13146208@N08/6543086177/ ]IMGP3282[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/13146208@N08/ ]jh_buchanan[/url], on Flickr[/img]

Love mine.

My post was genuine, I fell in love with it as soon as I saw it! Once I'd built it and rode it, I was doubly pleased. 🙂

As an engineer I'm extremely sceptical about simplistic hype. However so far I've found that when it comes to the details of mountain bikes I can actually feel and appreciate what one might off as insignificant differences: The 'feel' of a Soul vs my previous Al alloy hardtail, the stiffness and directness of bolt-thru forks, the improved grip/cushioning/rolling of tubeless, the stiffness of a Renthal stem and carbon bars. Some of the changes have been amazingly large, some more subtle.

Interested in the refs to 'classic frames like explosif and racelite.

One difference I'm curious about is - soul appears to have what looks like little or no bb drop (judged from pics in this thread)

If I remember right most bikes of that style/vintage run as much as -30mm bb drop..

Personally I (think) I like what some bb drop does for the handling and was slightly put off whyte 19 by what seemed like a bb hike above the axle line (was it just the consequence of slamming a 120 fork in a few yr old frame design or a design choice?)..

Any comments from test pilots riders or owners?

Well, to the OP, I've never ridden a Soul but I have ridden a Solaris, it felt flippin great, and so I'm taking my newly built Solaris on its first outing tomorrow and can't wait!

Have you considered 29er wheels?

I have a Soul and think it is excellent - I wouldn't be parted from it. It's been all over the UK and a fair few places in Europe too (and Morocco). As someone said above, I still think whenever I ride it how much I like it.

Scratch - I'll start a thread instead..