Coming back to MTBing; where do I even start?

Have you considered an emtb? What is your realistic budget?

I am 50, been off the bike the last 3 years due to hip issues, and now I dont have the time, inclination, or the body (aged 50) to get back in shape to really enjoy riding up big hills.

emtbs are mega for people like me. I would say I am still fitter than most avg people, but god an emtb just makes you feel 20 again and be able to do stuff you are never going to be able to do at 50 unless super fit. I demoed loads a little while back. You still work as hard as an analogue bike, just you can get up the steep hills easier and keep going longer.

My current mtb is a 2012 Giant Anthem 26er 100m full sus, maybe 22lbs ish? My new emtb will be 160mm travel 42lbs. However it rides with more fun, feels more nimble, more capable.

I would be looking at things like Orbea Rise you can get some fantastic deals on older models (just dont buy 2nd hand)

https://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/new-ebike-help-me-decide/

Edit : Electronic gears - I was in the no camp firmly until I test road all these emtbs with electric gears. It is so much nicer ! Shimano also has autoshift and freeshift so it will change gear automatically or even when your are not turning the cranks. Sounds gimmicky but is good!

given your use case i'd be looking at a cheap full suspension trail or XC bike. The lowest level of kit that works reliably is probably Deore, so you're looking at that kinda level.

Don't focus on weight, it makes almost no difference. Most bikes are heavier these days due to the larger wheels, etc. 5lbs probably saves you £2k and would make maybe a 2 minute difference on an average ride.

I'd be looking at this https://www.paulscycles.co.uk/bikes/mountain-bikes/gt-sensor-st-carbon-elite-full-suspension-mountain-bike-super-teal__12854 - great value for money, if a bit more travel than you need.

“Full suspension is definitely an option, but as light as possible really. Some of these modern bikes look way too heavy. Needs to be under 25lbs for sure.”

Modern bikes are much bigger with bigger wheels, and usually stiffer/stronger than older bikes. You’ll only get something under 25lbs if you go full race XC or spend a lot.

The bigger wheels roll faster which more than makes up for the small percentage increase in total system weight.

First thing, where do you live and what will you ride +90% of the time for the next year or two?

You want a Downcountry bike.

Id be going for one of these;

https://www.certini.co.uk/bikes/mountain-bikes/2023-specialized-epic-evo-mountain-bike--satin-harvest-goldblack__92622?currency=GBP&chosenAttribute=94823-7004&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwnqK1BhBvEiwAi7o0X5TmE02Fvc5L0HkvjXg59H7wi9xzC2hfBHhm06Tjqthr-YZ4W428yRoCLaMQAvD_BwE

^ what intheborders asks.

A lot of the additional weight is larger diameter wheels and associated longer forks, then the larger frames and things like dropper posts add a bit more. The rest hasn't really changed that much, so bikes around the 27-28lb mark will ride no differently in reality than the 25lb bikes you were used to riding a few years back. 29ers carry a bit more speed than 26" wheels used to, so you'll gain a bit of extra momentum to offset the weight gain at least.

Ignore the mega bucks super bikes, no one buys them. A £5K budget will get you a perfectly decent all round mountain bike, and if you don't mind shopping about, you'll get a bargain on older stock if you're looking at sizes outside of med/large. Bike prices are being slashed all the time these days becasue of post-Covid overstocking.

Got any trail centres near you that you can rent bikes for a day?

Coming back to MTB means your view on what you want is based on what it was like when you left, which often means less travel, lighter, steeper angles and 2.3" tyres being considered big. Times have changed, as have bikes.

If you can get out an rent a bike for a day you may find you don't want the above. I tried a fairly midrange Trek at Cannock Chase and on paper it was everything I didn't want (not light, huge tyres, lack angles and in my head far to much bike). I was wrong, it was magnificent climbed well, descended even better, and was just fun. For the rental fee of £60 it was well worth the trial.

Still a few bargains about! Decent spec Scalpel comes in under 25lbs & would make a wicked flat-bar gravel bike

https://www.westbrookcycles.co.uk/cannondale_scalpel_carbon_2_full_suspension_mountain_bike_-_stealth_grey_2023-26744?stockid=376220&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADtxIuw2daWpnSr5zIAalalyrdXoU&gclid=CjwKCAjwnqK1BhBvEiwAi7o0X3_2duClanwnJQvFbUutDnZUJUchXx3rTg9OPgKcR2TVKz3cqU_62xoCHywQAvD_BwE

Id be going for one of these;

I'd be very of an Epic Evo.  I've just bought one, I blame the Chisel thread ?. Took it for it's first shakedown ride yesterday evening and the bloody thing was a nightmare. It just kept screaming faster faster faster at me the whole way round.Up, down, flat it didn't give a shit where and it just wants to try to chase ebikes I tell you my 59 year old body couldn't wait for it to be over! ?

Last time I rode a full suspension bike it was a 1998 Marine East Peak. To say they have come on a bit is a slight understatement. Even my rigid Whippet is faster everywhere than that was.

Anyway as above downcountry bikes are a lot of fun

Anyway as above downcountry bikes are a lot of fun

What the hell is a downcountry bike?

Edit: Ah just googled, a modern XC bike.

XC does appear to be a banned word in mtb these days

Have you considered an emtb?

No. Don't want or need the hassle. Plus E-MTBs are a nightmare to travel with, from what I've heard. Airlines don't like them. Train companies don't like them. And they weigh a ton, so not much fun if you have to lift them over an obstacle.

Modern bikes are much bigger with bigger wheels, and usually stiffer/stronger than older bikes. You’ll only get something under 25lbs if you go full race XC or spend a lot.

So that's fine. My old bikes had XTR/XT/Hope level kit on them. I appreciate this kind of stuff costs money. I was jjst a bit surprised just how much more money it costs now; bikes seem to have risen in price a lot more than most other things.

First thing, where do you live and what will you ride +90% of the time for the next year or two?

This is probably the most important issue (even more so than budget really). So I live in London, but do travel a fair few times a year, and will probably be travelling a lot more in the future. I may be living for a short while in Germany, so would be good to have a bike there. But we already have France and the USA planned for this year, and have just returned from Germany (2nd trip this year), and may even be going to Spain as well.  Italy is on the agenda for next year for sure. In the past I cycled in Scandinavia, the Netherlands, France, Spain, the USA and Australia. So really, a good 'all rounder' is what's needed, if such a thing even exists.

What the hell is a downcountry bike?

That's exactly what I was thinking. Yet another new marketing term? Because cycling can never have too many new marketing terms!

Yeah, like the RM Element I was looking at this morning. Light XC bike.. but has (no, I got that wrong!) 130mm 🙂 travel. Don't see many in the olympics, but I bet they are great to ride 🙂

^ what intheborders asks.

What Matt says.

I was in a sort-of-same boat except I'd more or less given up MTB due to just doing road and gravel and only having an ancient MTB. 26" wheels, QR, triple chainset, the works!

When I eventually bought a new MTB (just a mid-range hardtail, the Specialized Chisel Comp which was on sale and got several threads on this forum), it was night and day difference and I pretty much had to learn to ride MTB all over again.

Everything was different - wheel size, geometry, handling, riding position, bar width. But it was also way more capable (unlike me!)
So yes, a significant period of adjusting to the new bike.

Good luck getting back into it - don't sweat the weight and spec too much by the way. My new bike is (in theory) a lower spec than the XTR/XT/Hope hardtail that I had previously but it all just works at least as well if not better.

No. Don’t want or need the hassle. Plus E-MTBs are a nightmare to travel with, from what I’ve heard. Airlines don’t like them. Train companies don’t like them. And they weigh a ton, so not much fun if you have to lift them over an obstacle.

Travelling - agreed, no flying with them, not sure about trains! As to weighing a ton, full fat yes, but not the 'lighter' versions that realistically come in about 19-21kg. Yes more than a standard bike, but you really dont notice the weight whilst riding. If anything most people agree the extra weight low down improves bike handling.

But if emtb isnt for you thats fair enough

First thing, where do you live and what will you ride +90% of the time for the next year or two?

This is probably the most important issue (even more so than budget really). So I live in London, but do travel a fair few times a year, and will probably be travelling a lot more in the future. I may be living for a short while in Germany, so would be good to have a bike there. But we already have France and the USA planned for this year, and have just returned from Germany (2nd trip this year), and may even be going to Spain as well. Italy is on the agenda for next year for sure. In the past I cycled in Scandinavia, the Netherlands, France, Spain, the USA and Australia.

You haven't actually answered the question here... Well, ok, you have literally, but not in any meaningful way.  Within that plethora of countries, what locations did you ride? What type of trail?

Or even what exact trail. Which ones do you want to do?

Eg, does The Danube Trail float your boat

Or the new DH at Leogang

In the UK do you fancy canal towpaths, mellow trail centres, picturesque bridleways, hideous gnarrrly lakes bridleways, Cairngorm epics

etc

What is your actual budget by the way, I know you said that you thought £5K would get a top end bike, but is that how much you want to spend?

You haven’t actually answered the question here… Well, ok, you have literally, but not in any meaningful way.  Within that plethora of countries, what locations did you ride? What type of trail?

Or even what exact trail. Which ones do you want to do?

Eg, does The Danube Trail float your boat

Or the new DH at Leogang

In the UK do you fancy canal towpaths, mellow trail centres, picturesque bridleways, hideous gnarrly lakes bridleways, Cairngorm epics

Yes, fair point. At this stage, it's going to be gentler dirt trails rather than high Alpine passes etc. River valleys more than mountain tops. Those lovely all day rides where you take in the scenery and stop for lunch at a nice cafe. I've ridden a fair bit in the UK, and there's not much I'd consider truly difficult really, perhaps some of the more remote Scottish mountains but I'm unlikely to be going there anyway. In many places in Europe, it's possible to ride fairly undemanding trails with a total ascent of higher than anything in the UK; hard work for sure, but not 'hardcore'. So a nice light bike is preferable to one that can plummet down the side of a mountain with 8" of suspension, if you get my drift.

So far, the Cannondale Scalpel looks a good contender.

What is your actual budget by the way, I know you said that you thought £5K would get a top end bike, but is that how much you want to spend?

As little as possible, preferably, but realistically, I'd say £5k is probably around the upper limit. I'd be reluctant to pay anymore, I can't see any real benefit in doing so. I'm also open to a frame and s/h parts kind of option too. I know there's plenty of decent kit sat in people's homes, bought on a whim and seldom used. My Ibis was bought like that, a real bargain and had hardly been ridden.

I'd either get a Specialized Stumpjumper. There's a new one out so you can get a bargain on old stock (like £7000 bikes being sold at nearly half price), especially in the smaller sizes, It'll do pretty much everything you want straight from the box. Misses your weight point though.

Or I'd be scouring the Pink Bike/Singletrack small ads for a Santa Cruz Tallboy if you wanted something a bit more bling. They get a lot of stick new for being overpriced, but 2nd hand they're actually pretty good value, and because of the folks who buy them,  they've often had some nice upgrades.

Under the "recommend what you have", just get a Cotic FS, even the short travel Flare Max will do anything you've mentioned.

Yes, fair point. At this stage, it’s going to be gentler dirt trails rather than high Alpine passes etc. River valleys more than mountain tops. Those lovely all day rides where you take in the scenery and stop for lunch at a nice cafe. I’ve ridden a fair bit in the UK, and there’s not much I’d consider truly difficult really, perhaps some of the more remote Scottish mountains but I’m unlikely to be going there anyway. In many places in Europe, it’s possible to ride fairly undemanding trails with a total ascent of higher than anything in the UK; hard work for sure, but not ‘hardcore’.

In that case, I'm not sure you need rear suspension.

A 120-140mm hardtail will do all that for you.

In the recent past I've had a 26" hard tail and a "modern geometry" 29" full sus.  Now I've got a long travel full-power ebike and a gravel bike with a tiny bit of suspension. (Specialized Diverge).  I have a very nice road bike too

Unless I'm using the ebike to it's fullest capability (both up and down) I find myself wishing I was on the gravel bike.  Especially on the road.

We ride all sorts of stuff on them. You just have to go a bit slow sometimes.  I did Follow the Dos and Monkey last week and a bit of Stile Cop downhill.

It's like you wished your mountain bike was 20 years ago.

I'm doing a day at Coed y Brenin next week (with my son and 14 year old grandson - who was given my excellent Giant Trance for his birthday).  I really can't decide whether to take the ebike or gravel.

I'd buy a cheap gravel bike £500-1000 and get out biking on the easy trails and gain the fitness.

Then I'd buy a MTN bike next year.

I've not been away from MTBing, but with more recent bikes, it can almost feel that way.

I had a Stumjumper M2 for a long long time, as well as a 1995 rigid Kona. The M2 has gone; the Kona still here.

I upgraded twice as it were, to two Singulars - Swift with either plus tyres 27.5" wheels or 29" wheelset. Both are perfectly adequate for my needs - bit more squish on the plus tyres obviously. The riding position just feels brilliant to me.

Second upgrade was a Pegasus - took longer to get to grips with that, bar width, fork travel, stem length (or lack) but feels better now and it's very capable - again, for my needs - old school XC. I've need has a FS though so that colours my opinion a bit.

yer not sure about getting back into it, looking at £5k and under 25lb's

Be aware that if you're fitness isn't really on point, a true XC bike might be too focussed on racing, not enough focus on cruising around in comfort.. IMHO

Although the epic evo mentioned above would probably be an option, to suggest what you own, a Trek Top fuel, but even mine comes in at 31lbs, makes no odds to me, is super quick everywhere, but i struggle with the lower front end after extended periods

But do you need a short travel fs bike for what you are doing? a well specced gravel bike would smash a lot of what you mention, and also kill the commuter bike off potentially.. and even give you the option of a decent trail bike within the 5k budget if it was interesting in the future

That Scalpel looks amazing, it's def built for speed rather than all day pootling tho. You might be fine but I would find my hands and neck getting a litttle achey after a while

What the hell is a downcountry bike?

That’s exactly what I was thinking. Yet another new marketing term? Because cycling can never have too many new marketing terms!

Another marketing term but basically something like this, an XC bike that's aimed at descending more than climbing

... https://startfitness.co.uk/products/santa-cruz-tallboy-5-c-s-carbon-mountain-bike-2023-matte-taupe

Go and demo some bikes, proper rides not just round a carpark. A modern full suspension bike is so different to ride, it will require learning how to stay in a more centred / balanced riding position especially when it get exciting. None of that hanging your arse off the back because the bike is too short.

Make sure you get some help with proper setup: Controls; don't try to make the bike feel like an old bike, geometry has changed for the better but it will take some getting used to.

Suspension; not just roughly setting sag, don't try to making it feel fast by being too firm and losing all the benefits of modern dampers.

Tyres, they don't need to be any where near as hard as they used to be, they are so much better now. Softer is grippier and faster.

I have just returned to mtb ing after a 12 year "break" and I am 10 years older than you!

I am absolutely loving it. However, my first thought was to upgrade an old bike but after looking at the cost and taking advice on here I bought a 2022 Stumpjumper for around 3K and its an awesome bike.

Bike have have changed loads in the years I have been away especially he geometry. In the old days the pedal crank to front wheel and rear wheel hub were roughly the same. Now the crank is closer to the rear wheel so you don't have to stick your backside over the rear wheel when you do steep technical descents. I would recommend you buy a new bike (new but not necessarily the latest model say 2022/2023 rather than 2024/2025) and get some coaching

If you’re not riding ‘proper’ off-road, just mostly tracks then a hardtail would probably be a good option. I would go full xc race as they aren’t always the most comfortable - they’re aimed at going as fast as you can over a relatively short distance. Just a trail 29er with say a 120-130mm travels fork gives you options if you do decide to do proper off-road in due course. A gravel bike doesn’t really give you the same option.

If going full suspension then stuff like the Specialized Epic Evo / YT Izzo / Transition Spur are in that burlier than an XC race bike but not a full trail bike.

£5k would get a nice ebike, but I see thats not the route you want to go, which is fair enough

A modern hardtail will be more capable than an older short travel full sus. I had a Rockhopper HT in Canada 3 years ago and it was far more capable than my 26er full sus.

Not sure how old OP is, but you may be surprised how hard it is to get real fitness/power back in your legs (if your getting 45yrs +)

Thanks for all the responses. It's clear that the MTBing marketing machine is still just as rampant as it always was. I've considered all the arguments re wheelsize, geometry etc, and it all comes down to compromise ultimately; no one geometry is perfect, gains somewhere mean sacrifices somewhere else, and everybody is different so we all have different tastes and requirements.

yer not sure about getting back into it, looking at £5k and under 25lb’s

Be aware that if you’re fitness isn’t really on point, a true XC bike might be too focussed on racing, not enough focus on cruising around in comfort.. IMHO

I used to race* a little bit, and a fast, light bike is definitely still ok for cruising around. I do prefer the old school geometry of being more forward over the bike, and had no problems descending even with a long seatpost. Rode a fair few UK trail centres and abroad on a hardtail with 80mm suspension long before I bought a full suss bike. My fitness is ok; I exercise regularly in other ways, and still use a bike for general commuting and getting around as much asI can. I'm not going to be doing big Alpine style runs regularly (if at all), and a relatively short travel bike is fine in the UK unless you really do need a skill compensator. Those olympic boys were doing fine on 100mm or so travel, even off some nice drop offs and down the little rock garden sections. I will want something that can climb well; 1500-2000m climbs in Europe won't be fun on a heavy 'trail' bike.

* I say 'race'; I wasn't committed enough to get into it seriously, so I was much more about just having fun than trying to podium for a few quid and a bottle of Muc Off. Reasonably quick mind; in the top 25% for times in most races I entered.

But do you need a short travel fs bike for what you are doing? a well specced gravel bike would smash a lot of what you mention, and also kill the commuter bike off potentially.. and even give you the option of a decent trail bike within the 5k budget if it was interesting in the future

Probably not, really. Would be a little more comfort on bumpy bits mind. 'Gravel' bikes seem to invariably come with drop bars; are there flat bar options? A little suspension at the front at least would be preferable.

ATEOTD, I was pretty happy with the bikes I had, I'd be happy with similar. I've had a try of a few more modern bikes; I found the more 'trail' type ones to be just too heavy and sluggish for my liking, I can see the appeal for descending though. Hence my preference for the lighter and faster end of the scale. Right now, a hardtail is looking more the kind of best compromise for what I want. Not ruling anything out at this stage though (bar drop bars).

The Epic 8 Comp or Epic 8 EVO Comp would be perfect for you OP. The EVO is a touch more relaxed in geometry with a little more front travel.

https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/epic-8-comp/p/220872?color=362028-220872

https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/epic-8-evo-comp/p/220878?color=366180-220878

They’re cross country bikes that are capable of a whole lot more. To the likes of you and I who are used to steep angled, ultra light 26in wheeled bikes they’ll feel very relaxed and ‘big’ but they’re immensely capable. Ignore all the stuff about them being twitchy or only for racing. That’s from a perspective of people are only riding modern big bikes and are usually completely over-biked for what they ride.

They also come in at sensible weights of 25lb and 27lb respectively. People have been condition to think heavy bikes are acceptable.

and a relatively short travel bike is fine in the UK unless you really do need a skill compensator.

Does it not depend entirely on your local riding, there's no need for the passive-aggressiveness. In that there London and the woods and forests locally, 100mm is probs more than enough, in other places not so much. As you say its all compromise.

I think you're right though, a hardtail is probs. the right choice.

Rode a fair few UK trail centres and abroad on a hardtail with 80mm suspension long before I bought a full suss bike

Just be aware that alot of the trail centres have moved on too, and the majority have been 'upgraded' to suit modern geometry bikes as many became boring on the more modern bikes.

I was riding stuff at Gisburn on the modern bikes with ease that would have been over the bars stuff on an older bike

@FormerMountainBiker

 no one geometry is perfect

Maybe not, but the overwhelming consensus is that modern geometry and wheelsizes, droppers etc make modern mountain bikes far more capable than bikes from even 5-10 years ago.

My current hardtail is much more confidence inspiring than my old full sus that it replaced, purely because it's the right size for me and doesn't try to throw me OTB as soon as I lose concentration. And that's using the same parts and fork.

The Epic 8 Comp or Epic 8 EVO Comp would be perfect for you OP. The EVO is a touch more relaxed in geometry with a little more front travel.

Yes, that first one is not bad at all. Thanks for the link. Definitely one to consider.

Does it not depend entirely on your local riding, there’s no need for the passive-aggressiveness. In that there London and the woods and forests locally, 100mm is probs more than enough, in other places not so much. As you say its all compromise.

I think you’re right though, a hardtail is probs. the right choice.

No 'passive-agressiveness' here, sorry if you interpreted it like that. This won't be a bike for riding round London; I have a commuter for that. This is more for holidays and short tips elsewhere. My last 'big' trip with a bike was in the Pyrenees in Spain; I took the hardtail because it was lighter. 100mm front fork. Was fine for all the descents I did, and they were a lot longer than you'd find in the UK.  The full suss bike would have been comfier, but was tipping into excess baggage charges so got left at home.

Just be aware that a lot of the trail centres have moved on too, and the majority have been ‘upgraded’ to suit modern geometry bikes as many became boring on the more modern bikes.

My most recent experience of UK trail centres were the ones round Betws in 2018. Have they become significantly modified since then? That was with the Ibis, but nothing I couldn't have coped with on the HT. I'm no 'riding god', and probably not the fastest down hills, but my bikes then were fine for what I wanted to do with them. Bear in mind I'm going to be riding less trail centres, and more natural stuff. If I do encounter the odd section that's beyond my skills and ability, I'll just either ride round or get off and walk. No biggie. As for 'boring'; has the view changed? It was fantastic last time I was up there.

Having seen the OP's responses to our suggestions, to answer his original question "don't discount what people suggest just because you've already decided what's best".

Crack on!

buy a cheap HT bike and go for a ride? my mate has a £500 cannondale 29er Ht and its an ideal starter. voodoo bikes from halfords also decent. The forks are not amazing but you can buy an upgrade second hand for not much if you actually get into it.

dont get caught up in the need for flash kit when starting out - just go ride.

Having seen the OP’s responses to our suggestions, to answer his original question “don’t discount what people suggest just because you’ve already decided what’s best”.

Crack on!

Not at all. I've specified what kind of riding I'd be doing, given as good a description as I can really, and people are still suggesting bikes that are unsuitable. It's a bit like recommending a cricket bat when I want to play tennis.

buy a cheap HT bike and go for a ride? my mate has a £500 cannondale 29er Ht and its an ideal starter. voodoo bikes from halfords also decent. The forks are not amazing but you can buy an upgrade second hand for not much if you actually get into it.

dont get caught up in the need for flash kit when starting out – just go ride.

This, I consider good advice. A cheaper bike might be a bit heavier but at least would give me a route back into MTBing. And I can easily sell it and 'upgrade' as and when I feel the need. I was used to pretty high end kit when I last rode, but I accept that's not essential. Just nice to have. Nice light wheels are always a good investment though.

No ‘passive-agressiveness’ here, sorry if you interpreted it like that

ah, and a non apology to round it off...Cool, I'll not bother the thread any further.

I'm not seeing @FormerMountainBiker as being passive aggressive, just chatty.

OP - if it's just gentle bridleways and pathways, multi use trails etc then a gravel bike is the better option, quicker lighter, faster.

If it's something that's good value for money, good for most things and then surprisingly capable on the gnarlier stuff then a trail/hardcore hardtail is good. That's what I'd go for and indeed it is what I ride mostly these days. XC orientated hardtails can be a little stiff and unconfortable.

A longer travel downcountry/shorter travel trail bike will be just as capable, but more comfortable on longer rides. But this comes at extra cost and extra maintenance.

OP – if it’s just gentle bridleways and pathways, multi use trails etc then a gravel bike is the better option, quicker lighter, faster.

I do like the look of some of those, but it's the drop bars that puts me off. Doesn't seem like there are many flat bar options amongst those.

I’m not seeing @FormerMountainBiker as being passive aggressive, just chatty.

I think some people can be oversensitive and not read things in the tone they were meant. It's the internet.

I do like the look of some of those, but it’s the drop bars that puts me off. Doesn’t seem like there are many flat bar options amongst those.

Sonder Camino (great bike) flat bar.

https://alpkit.com/products/sonder-camino-al-v3-apex1-flat

I have a 3 year old Camino, love it. Drop bars aren't for everyone

“ Not at all. I’ve specified what kind of riding I’d be doing, given as good a description as I can really, and people are still suggesting bikes that are unsuitable. It’s a bit like recommending a cricket bat when I want to play tennis.”

I haven’t seen any unsuitable recommendations in the thread, all I’ve seen is someone who thinks they’re an expert discounting perfectly reasonable advice based on outdated personal experience.

From how you’ve described your needs, you could ride anything from a gravel bike to 140mm full-sus, depending on your up vs down priority, or an ebike with even more travel.

A cheap 29er hardtail is the best bet because you may learn a lot from that and if you want something better in the future you can come back to this thread and realise that you were wrong about a lot of things.

I actually really enjoy throwing the gravel bike with drop bars on, down some trails, get in the drops and relax the arms, it's great fun. You do have to concentrate more than when on an MTB, picking a line rather than riding over anything.

It feels like a fast ish / light 29er head tail is the option to go for here.

A gravel bike is ok / but on rockier bridleways I wouldn’t fancy it tbh - even a flat bar one. Even 100mm of suspension fork takes the sting out of things.

Alloy will be your cheapest option - Rockshox Reba / SID would be fine in terms of fork for what you’re looking at. I’d aim for something in the 66 degree head angle sort of ballpark  - there isn’t really a downside to this over something more twitchy up near 70 degrees.

I haven’t seen any unsuitable recommendations in the thread, all I’ve seen is someone who thinks they’re an expert discounting perfectly reasonable advice based on outdated personal experience.

Some have recommended bikes way over 30lbs in weight, when I specified 25 or under. One important consideration is to keep the weight down as this can affect travelling costs. I'm going to discount recommendations that ignore my specifications. As for an' expert'; I don't think that at all. But I'm not a novice.

in the future you can come back to this thread and realise that you were wrong about a lot of things.

Wrong about what? I'm curious.

Sonder Camino (great bike) flat bar.

Camino Al Apex1 Flat Bar

Yes, that looks like an excellent all rounder. I probably will go for some sort of suspension, front at least, as this does make things a little more comfortable over varying terrain.

I agree about the drop bars. Riding on the hoods is very much like flat bars with bar ends (remember them?). I can do a 60 mile ride on my road bike without once using the drops. I just ride on hoods and tops. However on the Diverge I use them quite a bit. On very steep rocky downhill they sometimes seem to bring a bit more control (I use a short dropper seatpost) other times it's just a nice relaxing change, especially if my triceps are getting tired.

I'm seeing some slightly confusing bits from the OP.  Seems to be conflating length and difficulty and also seems to have an interesting view on where traditional TCs sit in the spectrum of difficulty.

I’ve ridden a fair bit in the UK, and there’s not much I’d consider truly difficult really, perhaps some of the more remote Scottish mountains

do prefer the old school geometry of being more forward over the bike, and had no problems descending even with a long seatpost. Rode a fair few UK trail centres and abroad on a hardtail with 80mm suspension long before I bought a fullsuss bike

and a relatively short travel bike is fine in the UK unless you really do want to ride some of the myriad hard technical amazing bridleways/ trails that litter the country. ( Some of which may be short, but some of which really, really aren't)

FTFY

hardtail because it was lighter. 100mm front fork. Was fine for all the descents I did, and they were a lot longer than you’d find in the UK.

Mmmm. The Tourmalet is much longer than anything in the UK.  But that gives no indication of the technical difficulty of the descent.

Bear in mind I’m going to be riding less trail centres, and more natural stuff.

You see. I'd read that as you will be doing more techie stuff rather than less.

Not that it matters, and no judgement being made, but it may help to explain some of the difference of opinion on the thread

If I do encounter the odd section that’s beyond my skills and ability, I’ll just either ride round or get off and walk.

True. Or if you find you are walking a lot, you could do what loads of people do and buy a more suitable bike and embrace the tech.

Again, no judgement. Just trying to point out that "skills compensators" are actually sometimes justified sensible purchase.

Some have recommended bikes way over 30lbs in weight, when I specified 25 or under. One important consideration is to keep the weight down as this can affect travelling costs. I’m going to discount recommendations that ignore my specifications.

I've travelled with bike a good few times now. I've never been under 23kg total bag weight as my trail/enduro bike is well over 30lbs especially with downhill tyres on for alpine riding.  Never been charged extra. (always under 32kg which is the hard limit).

I'd add my vote to the short travel full suss crowd. 100 to 120mm travel. Carbon, XC tyres.

25lbs is acheivable for a full suss with dropper, but will cost you. As said on the first page, wheels are bigger, frames are bigger, bars are bigger. And more importantly, stuff is better and doesnt break all the time.

“Wrong about what? I’m curious.”

Your arbitrary 25lb weight limit is the first one. But having seen threads like these from returning riders over many years I will save myself any more typing - you’ll believe your own experience over anything I say. Buy a cheap 29” hardtail and report back after plenty of hours of riding.

If you think weight is critical, get someone to put your water bottle on your bike but ask them to leave it empty or fully fill it and not tell you - and see if you can tell the difference.

There do appear to be a number of recurring threads in this vein. Always wanting something very light and saying no need for droppers etc as they rode everything fine before.

The point to make is things have moved on and made riding better (in my view) - tubeless has virtually eliminated punctures for me, getting the saddle down out the way is a game changer and 1x is more intuitive when you’re concentrating on tech bits of trail.

Suspension systems have settled down and geometry has mostly settled the last few years.

On the weight thing my hardtail isn’t super light (30lbs ish) but it’s a a good 4-5lbs lighter than my full suspension bike. The hardtail is faster on smooth tarmac climbs and on fairly smooth fireroads - but the full suss is faster on anything bumpier / looser etc as it gets more grip. The weight doesn’t really come into it.

and a relatively short travel bike is fine in the UK unless you really do want to ride some of the myriad hard technical amazing bridleways/ trails that litter the country. ( Some of which may be short, but some of which really, really aren’t)

I've ridden quite a few. In England, Scotland and Wales. I never fond anything that wasn't achievable on a hardtail. Ergo, for me at least,a short travel bike is fine.

Mmmm. The Tourmalet is much longer than anything in the UK.  But that gives no indication of the technical difficulty of the descent.

Well, you'd be achieving much higher speeds than in the UK. TdF riders can get up to 60mph and more. As for technical difficulty; ever ridden in the Alps? Seen the Megavalanche? Nothing to touch that in the UK. But that's irrelevant here; I won't be doing that kind of thing anyway really. Which is why I don't want or need a heavy trail bike.

I’d add my vote to the short travel full suss crowd. 100 to 120mm travel. Carbon, XC tyres.

25lbs is acheivable for a full suss with dropper, but will cost you.

I totally accept this. Light bikes have never been cheap.

I will save myself any more typing – you’ll believe your own experience over anything I say

Pretty much. I'm not looking for what you would buy, I'm looking for pointers towards the kind of thing that would suit me.

If you think weight is critical, get someone to put your water bottle on your bike but ask them to leave it empty or fully fill it and not tell you – and see if you can tell the difference.

That's daft. I'm talking about 5lbs or more. One bike 'recommended' was listed as being 33lbs. That's 8lbs over my specification. That is significant.

I totally accept this. Light bikes have never been cheap.

thats cool, was just unaware of your budget. on the previous page someone linked to an 2023 Epic Evo. It claims 28lbs weight. Spend some more for the Epic Evo Expert (functionally the same bike, but better specced) on the same website and thats 25lbs 7oz.

I've no reason to doubt that you have descended anything you ever had any cause to ride, on a steep angled, 80mm travel hardtail with a high seat post.

Just of the opinion that a modern short travel xc full suss with a dropper would make such a ride far more enjoyable - and would be of no detriment (probably still an improvment) on climbs, tarmac roads etc. the only downside being cost.

re the weight thing (all bikes with pedals, tools fitted etc)

my 160/135mm aluminium banshee is more than 33lbs

my 120mm top fuel carbon  (marathon?/downcountry?) bike is 31lbs

my hard tails have all been around 30lbs (aluminium, trail fork, moderate weight wheels and tyres)

i reckon my ally  gravel bike with rudy fork and dropper isn't far under the 30lb mark

i reckon the only bikes ive owned in past 5 years close to 25lbs is 2 hybrids, an all ally Saracen levarg and my vitus mach3 with aftermarket wheels and tyres.

My mate has an older epic (evo?) which i think might be on 25lbs.... would've been a top model, does he ride anywhere quicker or further than me? no.. however he did have to send it off for appraisal when it fell against a fence post...

I don't know if this radical idea has been raised.

If I go into a shop and am uncertain what I'm after, I make sure it's a shop whose recommendations I can trust (whether bike shop, windsurf centre, butcher, fishmonger) and talk about what I'm trying to achieve and let them be the ones to translate that into what I need. "There you are sir, a couple of lovely spring lamb chops".

In Stafford, a few rideable miles from Cannock Chase, which has a good mix of terrain, is Mammoth, the Specialized shop. They are staffed by knowledgeable riders who can listen to your thoughts and have a demo fleet which will enable you to try out the bikes they think will suit you. There's Run & Ride and Swinnertons too that probably do the same.

"Bloody hell, I didn't expect to enjoy that as much!"

As the Doobie Brothers sang - Tell me what you want and I'll give you what you need.

As for technical difficulty; ever ridden in the Alps?

Tignes

Val d isere

Les arcs

La Plagne

Meribel etc

Leogang

Saalbach

Serfaus

Verbier

Champery

Morzine etc

Serre Chevalier

Montgrnevre

Puy

Deux Alpes

Ooh, almost forgot La Thuile

I think that's all for now. Hopefully add La Clusaz to the list at the weekend

Seen the Megavalanche?

No. I have no interest in watching sports. Just doing them

Nothing to touch that in the UK.

For length yes. But not in terms of techie difficulty. I'll wager there is stacks in the UK that is more techie

It's certainly hot today, no question. Jut back from an amazing open water swim; I can heartily recommend it as a way of cooling down and de-stressing. Marvellous.

thats cool, was just unaware of your budget. on the previous page someone linked to an 2023 Epic Evo. It claims 28lbs weight. Spend some more for the Epic Evo Expert (functionally the same bike, but better specced) on the same website and thats 25lbs 7oz.

I’ve no reason to doubt that you have descended anything you ever had any cause to ride, on a steep angled, 80mm travel hardtail with a high seat post.

Just of the opinion that a modern short travel xc full suss with a dropper would make such a ride far more enjoyable – and would be of no detriment (probably still an improvment) on climbs, tarmac roads etc. the only downside being cost.

I'm totally open to the idea of a modern bike hence this thread. Very much leaning towards a short travel FS right now, purely for the fun and comfort factor. My Ibis was 5"/4" F/R, and overkill for my needs really. A lot of fun though, so I get that concept. As mentioned, a similar type of bike now would be larger and heavier, so a lighter, shorter travel bike would be much more suitable now. But the practical side of me is saying that a flat bar 'gravel'/hybrid type bike would be more useful in general. A HT would sit somewhere in the middle, in terms of compromise. Choices, choices.

I don’t know if this radical idea has been raised.

If I go into a shop and am uncertain what I’m after, I make sure it’s a shop whose recommendations I can trust (whether bike shop, windsurf centre, butcher, fishmonger) and talk about what I’m trying to achieve and let them be the ones to translate that into what I need. “There you are sir, a couple of lovely spring lamb chops”.

In Stafford, a few rideable miles from Cannock Chase, which has a good mix of terrain, is Mammoth, the Specialized shop. They are staffed by knowledgeable riders who can listen to your thoughts and have a demo fleet which will enable you to try out the bikes they think will suit you. There’s Run & Ride and Swinnertons too that probably do the same.

In London at least, bikes shops are concentrating far more on e-bikes, commuters and road bikes these days. Plus shop staff don't seem to be as well trained, knowledgable, enthusiastic or motivated, sadly. A lot of the really good shops that sold MTBs are long gone. Makes testing stuff that bit more difficult.

I wouldn't get a gravel bike... either a short travel FS or a Scott Scale 930, and see how that works for you

Try and find a new or lightly used Vitus rapide or sentier and do from there

Some have recommended bikes way over 30lbs in weight, when I specified 25 or under. One important consideration is to keep the weight down as this can affect travelling costs.

Weight has really ceased to be an issue with bike spec now, to the extent that many bike companies don't even list it anymore - obviously no-one is deliberately speccing stuff at 40lb + unless it's a DH bike or an e-bike but a modern MTB will always weigh a bit more than the MTBs of old which did focus a lot on weight (and were often fairly noodly to ride as a result).

Bigger wheels, stiffer suspension, dropper post etc all adds up. The rather arbitrary 25lb is restricting you to really quite high end kit but there are plenty of excellent bikes up to around 28lb.

Quick example is the Epic Evo Pro that got mentioned, that's 26.5lb (12.1kg) and that's £8000!

Weight has really ceased to be an issue with bike spec now

Quick example is the Epic Evo Pro that got mentioned, that’s 26.5lb (12.1kg) and that’s £8000!

100% this...

I work for a well known tyre company, 10yrs ago it was expected that an XC race tyre weighed in the realms of 500-550g, now they're 700-750g... And riders are often weighing them down with tyre inserts too! So that's a a minimum of 1lb of extra rotating weight alone before we look at any other components on the bike!

Guy Kesteven recently rode a Pinarello Dogma MTB in their highest spec off the shelf (same bike as Pidcock won the olympics on, albeit a different spec) and it was a shade under 10.5kg, or approx 23.5lb in old money... For £12k!!!

You want a 25lb MTB, well they exist... But be prepared to spend SERIOUS bucks!

Modern bikes are longer, slacker, heavier etc. but eminently more capable... I'm not saying you should buy a 35lb+ 160mm travel Enduro bike, but I am saying that you need to embrace the general trend @FormerMountainBiker otherwise you are going to have to spend some serious cash!

The advice further up about just buying a "cheap" (relatively speaking) hardtail for now and just getting out and riding it is great advice. A £1500 HT these days will have 1x gears, a dropper post, a capable suspension fork, tubeless wheels and tyres, decent hydraulic disc brakes and capable geometry, even if its classed as an XC bike, and will be eminently more capable a bike than you are used to.

As for "gravel" bikes...? Unless you want a compromised road bike with knobbly tyres (many do, and they're happy with it), then don't bother... A 29er XC Hardtail is eminently more capable everywhere and barely any slower on the road in my experience.

Go and demo some bikes, proper rides not just round a carpark. A modern full suspension bike is so different to ride, it will require learning how to stay in a more centred / balanced riding position especially when it get exciting. None of that hanging your arse off the back because the bike is too short.

Make sure you get some help with proper setup: Controls; don’t try to make the bike feel like an old bike, geometry has changed for the better but it will take some getting used to.

Suspension; not just roughly setting sag, don’t try to making it feel fast by being too firm and losing all the benefits of modern dampers.

Tyres, they don’t need to be any where near as hard as they used to be, they are so much better now. Softer is grippier and faster.

Lots of fantastic advice here...

I think if you go out and test some bikes, many of your old preconceptions about what an MTB should be will be blown out of the water... And you'll have a lot of fun in finding out about what it is you want an MTB to be!

I’m totally open to the idea of a modern bike hence this thread. Very much leaning towards a short travel FS right now, purely for the fun and comfort factor. My Ibis was 5″/4″ F/R, and overkill for my needs really.

That is considered "short" travel these days... Many WC level XC bikes are 120-130mm travel now... But suspension platforms have got a lot better, so typically you're not trading downhill performance with climbing ability any more... Although if you suspect your riding won't justify that kind of travel, then there's still plenty of XC hardtails on the market with 100mm travel forks and a significant weight saving too...

In London at least, bikes shops are concentrating far more on e-bikes, commuters and road bikes these days. Plus shop staff don’t seem to be as well trained, knowledgable, enthusiastic or motivated, sadly. A lot of the really good shops that sold MTBs are long gone. Makes testing stuff that bit more difficult.

I do sympathise with you there to be fair... There are plenty of decent MTB shops out there, they're just probably not anywhere near London! There are of course plenty of decent shops in London, but yes, the MTB focus isn't there in general...

I found I was doing plenty of rides from my door during covid that sound very much like you're planning to do.

My mate bought a gravel bike so I did too. It was ace for picking up and riding, especially on country roads and tracks I'd long left behind as my bikes got bigger and longer travel. Eventually though I realised I just couldn't get on with drops and would have to completely change my riding style to ever be properly comfortable so I sold it....

and picked up a second hand carbon Cube C:62 XC bike with 120mm forks. Much comfier than the GB for me, nice and light, quicker off road and not much slower on. Convinced myself that it was just a touch small though so sold that and am now planning my next move.

I've looked at stuff like the Transition Spur, Orange Stage Evo, Santa Cruz Tall Boy and Specialized Chisel FS but all of them seem to be around 30lb in spec I would be willing to pay for which is just too much and they start treading on the toes of my other bikes. Think I've probably settled on a Specialized Epic Evo or 8 built to around 26lbs, which seems not especially difficult. In your shoes I'd be looking at one of the higher spec old model Epic's that are 50% off if you can find one in your size. More XC than the Evo or 8 but lighter too.

Try a YT Izzo? Think this is fairly near you https://uk.yt-industries.com/demo-a-yt-bike/yt-mill-showrooms/

OP

If you are up for a second hand bike have a great condition trek top fuel 9.9 (2016). The original drivetrain has probably got a season in it

its 29” full sus with 100mm travel, carbon Dt Swiss wheels and 11 speed Xtr etc.

I live in west London if you want to check it out DM me

Woody71

I'd say it depends how much you're thinking you'll be taken by the bug again. For more "gentle" off-road riding and easier MTB every now and hen I'd probably recommend an alloy hardtail with 120mm ish of fork. Efficient on the road or gravel but can get rowdy if you want it to within reason. If you are prone to "mission creep" though, and think you'll be wanting to go Alpine riding or hitting up trail centres and harder, then a mid-travel trail bike would probably be the best. You can still ride them on easy routes.

I'm intrigued by the number of people recommending hardtails in here compared to the number I [ think I ] actually see out on the trails.

I hardly recall seeing anyone using hardtails, but perhaps I wasn't paying attention.  The only one that sticks in my mind is a guy on the guide training who commented after every section " oof, that was tricky on a hardtail" or "oof, pleased with that on a hardtail".

"Why didn't you bring a proper bloody bike with you then?" The assessor responded at one point.*

Almost as bad as single speeders...

* He didn't really. Not quite

If you're London based why not get yourself down to Pedal & Spoke in Peaslake or even Quench at Bedgebury and have a good look at what's available then test ride/hire what you think will suit?  You used to be able to demo stuff at Cyclopark too but I'm not so sure about that now.

P&S are Specialized dealers & you used to be able to hire/demo just about anything from the range - they'll often have deals on the used ones too.

FWIW, I'm in the South East & have reduced down to a gravel for most things & a Scott Spark for rides further afield..

Get on a demo day such as  day... https://www.orangebikes.com/demo-day

I've flown with bikes loads and as long as its under the hard limit its no odds.

I used to be able to clear some rough stuff on my HT..  1998 saracen kili but I'd much rather use my 130mm trail bike. Its faster and more fun.

If your adamant you want sub 25lb you'd almost be best buying a 2nd hand 26inch xc bike or hardtail.

I wouldn't have any worries about buying a sensibly specced HT, until i found out exactly what i needed/wanted, my HT was ridden anywhere my longer travel FS were, granted i've don't have a HT right now as it didn't have a place between a gravel bike and 120mm XC/DC bike

I have witnessed similar fixation to weight with mates who rode MTBs in early 2000s but haven’t ridden any modern bikes. They might bounce the forks, lift the bike “oo quite heavy” and “why are tires so wide” (2.4”) and bars seem too wide as well.
I have even taken them to good trails and loaned them my good bike but no luck getting them back to MTBs.

(They have returned the favour by dragging me back to climbing walls with even less success. Climbing sure isn’t fun when you’re overweight and strength levels are 1/4 of what they used to be. )

“I’m intrigued by the number of people recommending hardtails in here”

They’re cheaper, lighter, and with modern 29” tyres and geometry remarkably capable on rough stuff. For more money full-sus bikes are better but I’d rather have a cheap hardtail than a cheap full-sus.

(My preferred bike nowadays is a 160mm 29” singlespeed hardtail which I freely admit is stupid according to all logical measures!)

I’m intrigued by the number of people recommending hardtails in here compared to the number I [ think I ] actually see out on the trails.

I've got a 140mm hardtail and a 160/150mm full sus.

The full sus makes most stuff in this country too easy. It's great at bike parks and in the Alps, but the rest of the time I'm over-biked and it does affect the amount of fun I'm having.

I think most people's experience of hardtails are either XC or entry level, often with lightweight or poor quality forks. It's truly astonishing what a modern geometry hardtail with a decent fork is capable of, whilst being lighter, cheaper, easier to pedal up hill, easier to maintain, and in my case, more fun on most trails.

“The full sus makes most stuff in this country too easy.”

I think a big part for me is how insanely fast a 160mm 29” full-sus can go, so I end up backing off because I’m scared of what might happen if I crash at that speed, whilst the lack of rear suspension on my hardtail makes it feel a lot faster (and wilder) at less terrifying speeds.

@chiefgrooveguru exactly. On my hardtail I'm working to maintain speed.

I’m intrigued by the number of people recommending hardtails in here compared to the number I [ think I ] actually see out on the trails.

If you live in London then it's super easy to get out to Surrey on the train and a lot of those trails work really well on an HT. Plus an HT with modernish geometry and 29 wheels ticks a lot of the OP's constraints so he won't constantly hanker back to 2006.

Plus an HT is a ton better looking than another gravel bike