[Closed] Coil shocks and forks for general riding?

I run a Van 32 and CCDB on my trail bike, the added 1-1.5lB is far outweighed by the suspension control of coil imo.

Nice, but heavy. I used to have a coil sprung Patriot, which got nicked and replaced with an air sprung one - same forks (Marz 66) but in air version. The air one had a few bits of nicer kit on it but is 7 lbs lighter at 30lbs - this is a huge difference.

Coil forks were much nicer but for me, it wasn't worth the weight. Although on 66s the coil versions were much heavier than the air, probably not the same on all forks. I've never blown air seals btw although I have had a fork that leaked once.

I run coils on both my bikes. Got annoyed with the potential for faff on air shocks and forks. Found myself constantly questioning whether a little more air in one of the myriad chambers would make a difference, and as I used to carry a shock pump everywhere, faff would ensue. Also never found a setup on my air stuff that matched the plushness of the correct weight springs on my coil stuff now. Does weigh more but not by that much really. I feel like the bikes are more enjoyable with coils, despite the weight penalty, and thus I've been out riding longer and further on the whole.

Plus if I blow the damping or the oil pours out in some way, I can still get home on a bouncy but still semi functional shock. When my friends air shocks have blown or seized, they've tended to have a less useful bike for the ride home.

as above, I definitely prefer the performance of coil forks but you pay the price in a bit of extra weight.

I've got 32 Vanilla Rs on my Inbred. Pretty much perfect. No faffing with air pressures (And I like to faff!) just ride and occasionally lift the seals and oil the foams. 🙂

My 5-spot has a coil shock; after being stung by the "stuck-down" rubbishness of a Fox air shock whenever it got cold - ie. all winter - I replaced it with a big chunk of bendy metal instead. It's been far more reliable than that air shock was.

Urchin, you can get forks with only one chamber.. 🙂

what bikes are you guys running with coils?

All the rad trail centre kids are running coils!

It really depends on the terrain you're riding. Some trail centres these days are as quick on a hard tail as they are a full suss.

If you're riding in big country, like the Lakes, Scotland, Peak District, where the trails are super rocky, then a coil set up will definitely outperform an air but it will of course be heavier. It's up to you whether the weight penalty is worth the performance gain.

On the smoother trail centres or riding locations where the ground is mostly loamy and rooty, rather than rocky, then I think you may find an air set up as good as you're ever likely to want.

To put this into context, I swap between a Cane Creek DB and a Fox RP23 on my 150mm bike. The Cane Creek feels very different over any kind of terrain, but the outright performance on my local loamy, rooty trails is only marginally better than with the Fox RP23 and the latter saves me over a 1lb in weight, which is noticeable.

In the Peak the difference is much more significant, especially as you get faster at descending.

Coils are plusher than air springs, no-faffing to set up, minimal maintenance required (and easier to do when needed), less likely to die on you in the middle of nowhere, and their performance does not degrade with heat build up (e.g., long bumpy descends). You pay for that with some extra weight, but then bike weight is overrated anyway :D.

Never ridden an air shock I liked the feel of, so coil all the way for me. Air forks I don't mind so much though.

Coil forks, air sprung rear. But it is an NRS and would be odd with a coil sprung rear. Just don't remind me the forks are nearly 4.2lbs!

I run my 5 Spot with coils for genral use (Pike/CCDB) still comes in at about 30lbs. Love the plushness and the reliability - lost two weeks riding when the wifes Fox Triad sucked down 🙁

I reckon modern air kit has really closed the gap, I wouldn't take coil Revs (if such were still available) over my current set even if they weight the exact same, I think. You can say "no faff" but the flipside of that is that an awful lot of the coil-sprung bikes out there have completely the wrong spring rate. Changing springs is a lot more faff than changing pressures! And for plushness, with the negative spring run at a close pressure to the positive they're very smooth and reactive.

I wonder if the people who don't like the greater tunability of air springs also have really badly tuned TVs. "No, you can't tune it in, it was fixed from the factory- but it's less faff!"

Yet to find any coil fork that makes me want to change. Maybe I'll stop thinking that when I start looking at 36s/Lyriks.

what modern air shock? infact fork for that matter is "closing the gap"? There's a few interesting rear shocks on the horizon but nothing around yet that can compete with coil shocks IMO

also, you shouldn't ever need to change coil rate (unless your weight fluctuates loads). you should fit the correct weight from the start.

I run a coil shock on the back but air Pikes up front.

I just didn't get on with the rp23, so it was replaced with a DHX 4 which I definitely prefer. Coils on the rear makes sense to me.

I've considered changing the Pikes to Vans but I guess I've missed that particular boat. I'm not against air forks (got talas on the hardtail).

i've had them all.

rp23's / monarchs / DHX / Roco / CCDB / Van / Float / TALAS, etc.....

now on 2010 FLOATS and MONARCH 4.2

better for 95% of the time, reduced weight penalty, etc.....

i doubt many of us are good enough to exploit the 2 or 3% of performance gain a coil [b]MAY[/b] offer in the real world.

any suspension medium [coil / air / telelever, etc] should work ideally if it's correctly set up, and herin lies the rub.......most suspension is not correctluy set up !

I wanted coil shocks as I wanted the reliability. From what I hear they are less prone to seal and stanchion issues because the seals are less important keeping only oil rather than air in. Didn't want the weight in the end so went air (front and rear). I like the fact that i can tune my setup to my weight rather than something approximating it. I just keep a note of pressures and check them every now and again. I have even been known to fine tune the setup if I'm racing or going somewhere with extra kit and riding something hard.

jonb has it - the beauty of air is the ability to fine tune.
coils are spring weight dependant, and shimming oil circuits is sometimes necessary.....

it's just too much bloody weight and faff 🙂

anyone want to buy my 200 x 57 ccdb ?

I'm in the fit and forget camp.

I don't fettle/tune. I just get used to how it rides and ride it.

I had issues with the rp, the rebound was either too harsh or too slow. I felt it was bucking me off sometimes. Didn't like propedal either, made the frame 'sit up' on climbs.

Now I don't know what percentage improvement that is but even I can detect it...

CCDB? No thanks, sounds as bad a air shock...

My ti coil mani 6way on the demo weighs the same in total than the steel spring itook off it 🙂

Air shocks better for "95% of the time". Perhaps yes if you spend 95% of your bike time climbing or pushing big gears ?

I didn't know that there were determined "performance gains" between air and coil - surely there are far too many variables to make a general statement like that ?

I've just changed from coil forks to air and I wouldn't go back but I weigh 60kg and ride in a manner that could only be described as xc lite. Even with the lightest spring in my last forks and no preload I was lucky to get more than 50mm travel. I'm riding faster now because I can see rather than everything being a bit blurred. There is a bit of faffing with air pressure initially but it's hardly an onerous task.

think its down to personal preference and riding style really. I've got a van rc coil on order for my five, will be interesting to see the difference between the 2. I'm a bit crap at setting air shocks up and no matter how much i try, i can't seem to get my settings spot on with my rp23. I'm looking to keep both though and if the coil is a lot of weight gain it will be swapped out for the rp23 for more xc orientated rides. Coil appealed to me as i ride as much dh as i do xc. Both shocks are paired with a pike 454 air fork though.

I run a 2005 enduro with a dhx 5.0 coil. The bike suspension performance is much better than the air unit I replaced it with (albeit that was the stock 5th element jobbie) the downside us definateky the weight. It's coming in at 36lbs.

lecht & Jonb - well done spouting utter pish. especially Lecht.

depends on the bike?

trail / all-mountain I'd always go for for air springs front and rear

freeride / downhill I'd always go for coil springs front and rear

my current bike (6 x 6 all-mtn) runs 2010 Fox RP23 XV BV on the rear and 2010 Fox 36 Talas RC2 on the front, no complaints with the air suspension

setup right it works very well and I like the super easy adjustments I can make whilst riding (pro-pedal on rear and travel adjust on front)

Horses for courses and each has it's own good and negative points. Air is far more tuneable, especially on the fly and also to adjust for the amount of gear you carry - loaded CamelBak for instance. Air though does have stiction to overcome so will never be as smooth as a spring. My first 5 Spot had coil Van 32's and a coil DHX with ti spring and my current 5 Spot has Float 32's and RP23 and I know which I like the best - the coil one.

@ GW - What exactly makes you the authority then ?
bear in mind i spend my life riding the grampian mountains and proper rock..........

I have never got on with Fox air cans and since moving to CCDB I'll not being going back....the climbing & descending performance is fantastic compared to fox air.

the_lecht_rocks - Member
@ GW - What exactly makes you the authority then ?
bear in mind [b]i spend my life riding the grampian mountains and proper rock..........

I thought I'd read it all...TLR you really need to take it all a bit less seriously. I'll take you on at any trail centre if you need proof.

Anyway....GW -v- TLR BATTLE!

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Been going back and forth, but definately prefer coil, especially over Fox air shocks. Currently running an Elka, previous bike had a 2010 rp23 and then a pushed van r. IMO it has a lot to do with the frame design too. Some frames work better with an air shock (generally blows through first half of travel faster then coil, and ramps up more toward the end) and others with coil. Most frame designers have probably had some kind of shock in mind while working out how the leverage ratio changes along the stroke.

Al, you need 'all the gear...' to take on TLR 😉

I just put a CCDB on my Nicolai... Feels amazing, yip it is heavy with steel spring but this not an issue when comparing to the superb performance up/down and along!

I am pretty heavy so the spring wins on the rear.

Running fox 36 Floats which feel sweet on the front!

I'm always servicing other folks' air suspension. So I went coil all round on my Orange 5. The platform on the Van R shock is so good I don't miss the RP23 at all, and I still have the 20hr service intervals on the custom 36 u-turn I built, but I can live with that for the performance. I could lose a few more lbs off the beer belly if I want to save weight.
It just means I spend less time working on my own bike and more time riding it.

I have ridden with gw and he can ride and knows his stuff. Fight!!!!! 🙂

How about a GW v TLR ride off? I know who my money is on!

What are we to ride off? 😀

GW

"what modern air shock? infact fork for that matter is "closing the gap"?"

All of the quality ones IMO. Better small bump response, less drag in the seals, good choices of volume and response.. And reliability's certainly improved massively too, I don't think you'd deny that?

"also, you shouldn't ever need to change coil rate (unless your weight fluctuates loads). you should fit the correct weight from the start."

Yes you should. How many people do that? Vs how many people who buy a used fork and fit it, or buy an off-the-peg fork or bike with a medium spring on it? I would, you would, but I doubt most riders do. Manufacturers who spec coil forks or shocks generally pick a happy average spring and I reckon that's the spring that will remain on the bike for the rest of its life in most cases.

jeez. everyone know coils makes you instantly 20% radder.

jambo has it.

aslong as my bike looks rad i'm happy.

Mostly coil - I prefer it to be honest.
But then I like (and still have) the old 5h element coil shock with air platform. Such a nice rear shock.
Front I have a bomber Z1 and a Uturn 302 Tora doobry.
Also have a cheap air fork and don't rate it, but then it's cheap compared to the other ones...

i'm not worthy.
atgni over here. ill get my coat...#hahahaha

fwiw, i doubt anyone here's good enough to extract that last 5%

Northwind - you're wrong
and as for your reply to changing spring rate, I couldn't give a **** what other people do.

TLR:

fwiw, i doubt anyone here's good enough to extract that last 5%

So you are saying that you are good enough to extract the 'last 5%' from your Ti456 over the hummer (or a steel frame for that matter) or Nicolai over the 5 spot?

Who said anything about getting 100% benefit? I'd say it was about preference. I [i]prefer[/i] coil.

Its not so very long ago that you were waxing lyrical over the CCDB IIRC ('stunning' no doubt was used...). No doubt you'll change your mind, again, sometime soon... 🙄

Read some TLR gems on the MTBR forum, great entertainment if you're really bored. Some priceless procore info.

(apparently we all run our suspension too stiff and with too much rebound)

😐