Ah right ok thanks, will that give me the missing travel back?
it should do yes.
I seem to be sitting at the 10% sag marker on my 160mm pikes giving less than 150mm travel
Flippin kipper moving the top cap spacer will not adjust the travel, the spring rod is too short. You need to contact Richard and ask him to send you the 160mm travel rod. The same thing happened to me, I ordered a 160mm kit and when I assembled it I realised I only had 150mm of travel. I emailed Richard and he has dispatched the 160mm travel rod. I haven't received it yet but I have been running the fork at 150mm and I'm very pleased with it. It's far more supple initially, has better mid stroke support, doesn't have that "dead" air spring sensation and ramps up to full travel nicely. In short it feels like a smaller version of my Boxxer Team which is exactly what I wanted. Once I have the 160mm spring rod and have ridden it for a while longer I'll write a proper report on here.
Thanks stompweaver, have emailed Richard and he replied saying to ensure the editing is correct (whatever that means?), but he agrees the overall length is controlled by the spring shaft so hopefully he can get a new one sent out.
Sorry to head that guys, but Richards seems a top chap though. He seems like an engineer that's just getting used to the sales side of things, probably got a few rods mixed up in his workshop.
Hope it all works out.
Hi, thanks Tom - bit of an update, Richard gave me the length of the 160mm spring rod (213mm). I took it out and measured it and it was correct, this was also evident from the fact I could extend the forks 10mm or so by pulling them before the spring rod stopped further extension.
I then figured out there was quite a large 10mm gap between the top of the spring and air cap, even with the white preload spacer so the forks sat 10mm into their travel. To remedy I cut down an air token to fill the gap and now they are sitting at about 155mm available travel with just the weight of the bike. Hope that all makes sense!
The forks are a 2014 pike rc, maybe these have a slightly bigger air chamber than later models?
I then figured out there was quite a large 10mm gap between the top of the spring and air cap, even with the white preload spacer so the forks sat 10mm into their travel.
That sounds like the spring is too short!
Pretty sure that the 2014 pikes have no difference in air chamber size.
The later models have a different -ve chamber seal head but i think that's it
Spring is 29cm long, bit I would have thought they would all be the same length as the travel only depends on air shaft length and the air chamber is the same size no? Anyway fork feels good, looking forward to riding it at the weekend!That sounds like the spring is too short!Pretty sure that the 2014 pikes have no difference in air chamber size.
The later models have a different -ve chamber seal head but i think that's it
Thanks for making this known Tom !
First ride out last night, so far so good, seems to work well with the charger damper.
Had a bit of a rattle round the back end though, this was due to leaving out the hub spacer on the cassette.
Finally received mine today after much waiting, my original order was lost/stolen in transit - Richard sorted this out with no fuss. Looking forward to getting it fitted up at the weekend.
Props to Richard for top service
First blast in the peaks since the mod was done, I can confirm they have passed 😕
What's up with the confused emoticon then? 😛
Hi, thanks Tom - bit of an update, Richard gave me the length of the 160mm spring rod (213mm). I took it out and measured it and it was correct, this was also evident from the fact I could extend the forks 10mm or so by pulling them before the spring rod stopped further extension.I then figured out there was quite a large 10mm gap between the top of the spring and air cap, even with the white preload spacer so the forks sat 10mm into their travel. To remedy I cut down an air token to fill the gap and now they are sitting at about 155mm available travel with just the weight of the bike. Hope that all makes sense!
The forks are a 2014 pike rc, maybe these have a slightly bigger air chamber than later models?
This doesn't sound right, my coil extended a good 5-10mm out of the fork so I had to press down on the coil before threading the top cap in.
Odd. Have you somehow ended up with one of the OEM 170mm Pikes making the rounds on the used market?
Interesting topic , Has anyone put a coil conversion in to a solomair yari and how does it work /will it work well with motion control ? Thanks
I've taken delivery of a spring set for a 160mm Pike just as the bleeding thing developed a creak from the CSU.
Will the kit fit directly into a Lyrik fork and give the same travel?
I'm not sure, you may be able to sell it on here or ask Richard nicely to swap it with a Lyrik model if it's unused. Pretty sure the Lyriks have thicker stanchion walls - not sure if that will make a difference.
Have you tried re-torquing the top caps on both sides?
I've actually had a very quick reply off Richard about this, the Pike version will fit in Lyrik/Yari forks with an extra 'wedge' on top of the spring as the stantion is slightly longer. I was thinking that a bottomless token would do the trick with a bit of fettling.
I've not tried retorquing the top caps, I'll give it a go cheers.
Try doing them up a bit tighter.
I've read this and Tom's other review thread with interest. Currently have Pike 29 RC with 150mm travel. Used to have Pike 27.5 RTC3 with 160mm travel and the current RCs feel much more damped, certainly in the low speed department. I've got the dial as low as it will go and they still don't feel anything like as supple as the RTC3s. Both are/were 2015 models.
Set-up currently is 3 tokens and 30% sag. 2 tokens with 30% sag wasn't giving me the nice supple feeling and grip that I had on the RTC3s. Only problem is now (as indicated by a few here) is the less than satisfactory mid-range support.
So, you had me at hello...
The CRConception coil conversion sounds like it will make the forks perform much better. But, will I be better off going for less sag, say 25% rather than current 30%? A few here seem to run quite a low amount of sag, but I've been a 30% man for many years now. And how will I know what to aim for, or does Richard sort that out?
Thanks in advance...
Youre going to get less bottom out resistance by running a coil at 30 percent....so yeah I would highly recommend running a minimum of 25 percent. It wont feel much harsher on cobble type stuff as the fork will be more sesnitive. I dropped from about 23/24 to 21/22 and gained a bit more grip and reduced a bit of the buzz. Of course stuff that takes you into the midstroke may be a bit harsher as you have more support there although I havent noticed it - I suspect the fork is reacting faster and riding in a hugher softer part of its travel - whilst the latter third of travel will only have a little bit less support - given the drop in sag. So youll get a bit more blow off on really hard hits.
Ask around with some suspension tuners for advice though....eg Craig at Avalanche....hes a coil fan so may be able to help....if hes not too busy.
Richard can try and get close to the value you ask for - if not - I guess ask for his professional opinion on what will give you the best ride characteristics.
[list]If you really want to run 30 percent....and youre very particular about sag....Id suggest the virsprung mod plus a damper tune.
Again - Id recommend against running 30 percent sag though.
I don't want to be responsible for making people spend money on something they arent hapoy with, coils are great if you can focus on ride chacteristics not pre existing ideas of what sag values should be.
I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable as Tom but I'd 100% agree that a coil with 30% sag would be bad. I'd put money on it bottoming out all over the place (based on being very happy with a coil in a 160mm 650b Pike at around 22% sag)
No, I get that, hence asking for a bit of advice, but will even 25% be too soft at the top? Think I'll have a word with someone and get a better idea. Thinking of trying zero tokens this weekend to see what that does too.
Zero tokens will give you a better idea of how the fork will react with a coil - as you can run less sag to get the same bottom out and have more midstroke support. So you can find a sag setting which will be closer to giving you the desired bottom out on a coil spring.
However the midstroke still wont be as good, nor will the grip.
But it will give you a much better idea of what you might like. Just tryvto imagine what your setting would be like with a more sensitivy and support in the midstroke.
Aye, it's my search for grip and sensitivity that takes me to 30%, but I sense some experimenting coming on. I've heard through a riding buddy the Jake at Sprung reckons zero tokens and 25% sag is the way for Pikes.
Cheers.
I've heard through a riding buddy the Jake at Sprung reckons zero tokens and 25% sag is the way for Pikes.
thats what ive just got after fitting a luftkappe, previously 20% sag and 2 tokens, without the luftkappe that woudve been far too divey
I found that with the FAST damper I could run 23/24 percent sag and one token (before the FAST damper I was running two tokens) - without the vorsprung - less sag didn't have enough grip - without one token it was still a bit divey. But yeah, more linear with less sag and more sensitivity is the way forward I reckon - whether that means going coil or to a larger negative spring depends on what your priorities are - both systems have their positives and negatives.
Home made spring kit at 20% is miles better than air at 25-30% with or without tokens.
This is at 160mm, 650b chassis with 26" wheels.
Rickos, the Pike RC compression shim stack is supposed to be much more restrictive than the RCT3 one, something to do with OEMs wanting the LSC dial to offer a complete lockout (allegedly). That might explain the differences you are noticing.
Ah, yes, that does sound likely based on my experience. Cheers, bacon.
Hello, i have been pretty disappointed with the conversion kit from cr conception. Spring weight seemed to be correct. Around 23% standing sag at 88 kg naked. Unfortunately i had harsh bottom outs on minor impacts. Pretty much only tolerable for cruising. In my opinion the coil conversion is not working due to the lag of a bottom out device (like the hydraulic bottom out of a Marz. 55 RC3 for example). I think the fork is just designed for the ramp up of an air spring. The top out felt pretty harsh too. Unfortanetly CRC refused to exchange spring weight after purchase. In fact there was no support at all. Messages are ignored meanwhile. Poor customer service and therefore absolutely no recommendation from my side!
is bottoming out even with the compression ramped up?
Yes, compression one click from closed (pike rc) and still bottoming
Yes, compression one click from closed (pike rc) and still bottoming
Are you sure your damper is in good working order?
Nope, not had harsh bottom outs. Probably need to get a lighter compression tune on my FAST damper and a faster end stroke rebound tune tbh - as Rick says - your damper is probably shot. The conversion keeps the standard rock shocks bottom out bumper assembly located in the bottom of the stanchion, doesn't it? You filled it with enough oil?
One click from closed would have had my old RC pretty much locked out.
Shame to hear your messages haven't been returned, but he barely speaks English - so hopefully a case of lost in translation. If however, he feels your damper is borked and he sends you a new coil - and that doesn't help either - then that is a waste of both his time and money and your time. At least I hope that is what is going on - get the damper looked at.
Oh and
worth a read
Thanks for your opinion but my Damper is working fine. Oil Levels are as recommended and I tested the system in 3 different pikes. All the same. Cant be the dampers fault. Im now on a AWK double floating air chamber (similar to Manitous IRT). Best compromise between air and coil so far. Hate to say it but CRC is no more an option for me. And yes i think we understood each other quite clear.
I had a conversation about these springs with TFT when my forks were in for a service last week. They were less than complimentary about the build quality of them. They did say they would be offering their own coils conversion very soon.
You could argue that they were putting down another product in favour of their own but it didn't sound like that to me.
I'm still waiting for the TFT option before doing anything.
So as I read it the CRC kit has worked for loads of people within this thread? But for you it bottoms out, your dampener is fine and you have tried on three different sets of pikes? Seems a bit weird to me.
The TF Tuned option has been coming out soon since last summer. The last launch was meant to be Sea Otter. Nothing wrong with the build quality imo, it's simple stuff
I also had a pike conversion kit from CRC. For me it did not work. The spring was way too soft and I was even using the slightly harder spring. I think the CRC solution works well when you are also buying the damping unit. This one is built like the Marzocchi dampers so you can adjust the last third of travel by the oil level.
Sad to say but also the service of CRC was hhhmmm lets say not so good. Before I did the transaction he was replying fast and to all my requests. After paying I only got the feedback that I must be wrong with my impressions??!! No spring exchange, no more feedback! To be honest I never had an even close experience in my 25years of mtb. Cannot recommend crc.
Quite interested in the Tft solution.
I have the conversion for my Lyrik 29. It does work and i dont get harsh top or bottom outs. Richard was good when the initial sag wasnt as requested, he sent me a bigger spacer to increase pre-load. The spring rate was just too soft and i had total radio silence about that. The spring is a domain spring, so i just bought a firmer one. Works fine now. If there was an option from TF i'd have used that but there wasnt/still isnt. I suspect Richard has a shortage of springs as RS don't make them anymore, getting hold of them isn't easy.
The damper is designed to work with an air spring, but its fine with my coil conversion, i might get it tuned/changed when i do the next service.
I would'mt say avoid CRC but, he's a French guy, in his shed in France, using Facebook to communicate. Its fair to say dealing with issues etc isn't straight forward.
I am using now the rs domain shaft and an xfusion venegeance 170 spring abd this works pretty well
The two folk with problems are brand new posters...
Lol.
Mine wasn't a Domain spring either - which is a bit odd.
In regards to bottom out, I did say with a coil you can either choose the bottom out force of your old setup or your sag - by speccing a different spring rate. What's good about the coil is with less sag, they still work. I'm on around 20 percent and it feels as comfortable as my Pike did at 25 with one token.
Still happy with mine in a Pike RC, I use the compression adjustment to avoid bottom out. I can't comprehend how it's possible to have the correct sag and maximum compression damping and still bottom the fork? If I had the compression set to max I would have to hit something very hard to do that
I had a conversation about these springs with TFT when my forks were in for a service last week. They were less than complimentary about the build quality of them. They did say they would be offering [s]their own[/s] [b]Push Industries[/b] coils conversion very soon.
FTFU.
[quote=Rick Draper ]I had a conversation about these springs with TFT when my forks were in for a service last week. They were less than complimentary about the build quality of them. They did say they would be offering [s]their own[/s] Push Industries coils conversion very soon.
FTFU.
fanks 🙄 I must have missed that bit. I wasn't aware you were listening into my conversation I am glad you were tho 😐
Still happy with mine in a Pike RC, I use the compression adjustment to avoid bottom out. I can't comprehend how it's possible to have the correct sag and maximum compression damping and still bottom the fork? If I had the compression set to max I would have to hit something very hard to do that
This +1
As I said earlier, the RC fork would be almost like the RCT3s lockout mode with one click from fully closed.
I half suspect the posters are either someone from TF or SA Springs - bottoming out easily with that much compression damping makes no sense to me at all.
I've had my first ride on a TFT coil converted Pike today 🙂 ...and it's predictably great! It's been a long wait (they've had my fork for weeks) but worth it I think. This is their own conversion ...they used Push seals I believe but other parts have been manufactured for them by a local engineering firm.
It is strange how two "new" names have appeared all of a sudden! Can't see how there can be a problem as described unless it's a blown damper unit.
Yes, i am new to singletrack forum. No, im not an competitor. Just a customer who searched the web for a explanation and is dissapointed with his purchase. This is my experience and my opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.
Tf tuned posted on Instagram they have their coil conversion ready. £109 DIY
http://www.tftuned.com/pike-coil-conversion-kit/p3314
Hydraulic bottom out bumper would be nice but not really the space to fit one
thedude - Member
Tf tuned posted on Instagram they have their coil conversion ready. £109 DIY
£149 according to the email.
Looks remarkably similar to the CRC one, except they've swapped to a metal -ve spring holder, you don't get a new spring rod, but you do get a top cap (and an extra spring, but I don't really get why you need that unless planning serious weight gain/loss)
Two different rate springs seems a good idea to me.
A spring swap programme would be an even better idea though!
Right… time to guess what rate springs to get…
It's 300g heavier than the solo air spring. That's more than the CRC conversion kit I think.
Also does anyone know why the dual position version is £26 more expensive?
Very tempted!
I can't see the weight being much different from one kit to another, mostly it's a spring.
The dual position kit may be more expensive because it needs a new aircap and the solo air possibly doesn't
Anyone else tried the TFT kit yet?
Rubber_Buccaneer - Member
I can't see the weight being much different from one kit to another, mostly it's a spring.The dual position kit may be more expensive because it needs a new aircap and the solo air possibly doesn't
You said earlier in the thread that the CRC spring added 150g to a dual position pike. TF tuned reckon their spring is 500g or 300g more than a solo air spring assembly. I can't see why there would be such a difference either, hence my question.
The kit comes with its own topcap, it doesn't reuse the topcap from the solo air spring, so still not sure why the dual position is £26 more expensive. Seems a bit weird!
Scene tax, innit.
You said earlier in the thread that the CRC spring added 150g to a dual position pike
It did. Can't pretend my cheap kitchen/shed scales are especially accurate but shouldn't be that far out. What I didn't do was weigh the CRC kit or the bits I took out.
I can't explain the difference in weight or price if you get a top cap either way ❓
300g more than a solo air spring assembly
Of course there is quite a bit more to a dual position spring, no idea whether it's 150g more than the solo but it is possible
Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought there was only a one position coil spring. The TF coil conversion has two versions depending if you're? converting a solo air or a dual position.
I meant the dual position air gubbins I removed to fit the coil.
I still have a CRC Pike spring kit to sell as I. I longer have any Pike forks, it doesn't fit in the Yari I'm using. 160mm 650b, 22% sag at 100kg. The thin plastic stantion protection is bent out of shape after an attempted fit in the Yari but an alternative boulder be too difficult to source at a stationers or similar- £85 posted.
Could anybody give the lenght of the spring for 160mm, 27,5 pike CRC conversion kit?
Just had a play on the newly converted coil pikes, amazingly plush and so much better on my hands than the dual position spring it replaced. Not sure which spring to run, one gives 23% and one 19% (without a rucksack) so I expect I'll have to move to the stiffer coil with a heavy pack. It feels like a much better performing fork already and I've not really got it set up 100% yet.
Mick, not yet - I've just ordered a Race Edition Orange Fox 36, I'll be dropping a Push coil conversion in it. The two stage spring will be nice to have.
Anyway, I'll soon have a coil equipped Pike with a FAST damper for sale. Nothing wrong with the fork, I just wanted something that was Orange. 😆
I'll have a review up in about 6 weeks.
Mick, not yet - I've just ordered a Race Edition Orange Fox 36, I'll be dropping a Push coil conversion in it. The two stage spring will be nice to have.
Just got a 170mm push conversion for my 2018 36!
Does anyone know what the difference is between the solo kit and dual position in terms of functionality. I have dual position Pikes but really don't use the dual position functionality, so if the dual position kit retains the dual position functionality can I buy and install the solo conversion kit instead or are there physical differences with the fork lowers?
Cheers
Just got a 170mm push conversion for my 2018 36!
Let me know how you get on with it! 🙂
Let me know how you get on with it!
I will do. I also have some factory Orange forks on order to drop it all into lol.
Great minds (or massive bling whores) think alike hey? What date have mojo given you for delivery? I've been counting down since last tuesday, since I put the deposit down.
I needed some new brakes, as I've wrecked two sets of deores now - I should really be running Zees or V4s. But who cares for coward levers!!!! I [s]wanted[/s] needed me some Orange forks....cuz....my shock springs orange!
Does anyone know what the difference is between the solo kit and dual position in terms of functionality.
The dual position 'version' is just because they add a solo air spring shaft in the package, nothing more. They both convert to the same functionality from different starting points. If that makes sense!
Thanks Neb. I spoke to the chaps at TF tuned and spontaneously ordered a kit. My Pikes were in dire need of a service anyway and I fancied a project, so i've got a kit winging it's way to me right now.
Ok guys, need a general opinion on this before throwing more money at my Pikes.
I bought a set of used pike forked 160mm 650b flavour a while back,
The damping was spiking so I sent to tf tuned and ended up having the full FAST upgrade done and had to have a new air shaft so already spent 300 on them.
To me they don't feel up to my bike in terms of performance (sb6c) and I'm considering selling them and getting a 170mm Lyrik.
I reckon with selling the pikes a Lyrik will cost me £350
What do we think will be a better fork for my bike in the alps
PIKE 160MM With FAST upgrade and coil conversion
Or
LYRIK 170mm stock fork (2017 model)
I don't want to spend more money on them if the chassis is the real issue here...
What's the crowd opinion?
I have a FAST Coiled Pike and my old man has a FAST Lyrik 2017. The FAST damping is superior to the standard Lyriks, where the Lyrik improves upon an older model Pike is how sesitive the spring is (the 2018 Pikes are closer in parity to the 2018 Lyriks in this regard) and stiffness.
My 160mm FAST Pike feels like it has a bit more grip and more midstroke support, however it has a racier feel and is slightly less comfortable than the Lyrik (partly do to the tune plus the increased midstroke support from the coil.... I think). It's a more sensitive fork though.
Personally, I'm not sure I'd bother upgrading to a fork without the HSC adjustment - it makes a huge difference, changing how quickly the fork opens up to use it's travel for bigger hits.
You don't say what your issue with the Pike is, your complaint is very non-specific so I can't say whether you would be happy with an upgrade.
ACS-3 Coil 170mm conversion shipped
Orange 36's still two weeks out
Arghhhhhh
