[Closed] clutch rear mech and doing away with chain device - experiences please

Got a short cage shimano one and using it on a 2x10 setup with a stinger. I love it, had no chain loss moments and it makes everything so quiet. I am defo keeping the device on a double as it help keeps the chain on there but on a 1x10 setup it might be enough on it's own

Clattery chain device? What are you using?

A clutch mech isn't enough on it's own.

Using an e.13 LG1+. Some of the riding does warrant this, but for other rides it would be nice to ditch it and go unprotected. Though without any sort of device and a normal rear mech I'd constantly be losing the chain.

I've got an X9 type-2 and no chain device. Not lost a chain yet.

Shimano SLX clutch mech, no chaindevice, 2 x 10, Nukeproof Mega. Very quiet and no chain loss even on DH tracks. Highly recommended

I've an XT shaddow+ with a 2x10 xo chainset on a 29er hardtail - been using it for around 2/3 months and the chain hasnt slipped of once.
Not sure i'd like to try it wth a single ring and no chain device though.

Went XTR shadow+ with 1x10 upfront in July. NEver lost a chain in a months riding. Went to the Alps in august and the chain was dropping a lot. Bought a top only guide.

If you ride slow or on fire roads you'll be fine. Otherwise it won't work and anyone who says differently just isn't trying hard enough. I've tried it and My mates have tried it and we can't ride more than 10m down hill without losing the chain and we aren't even riding rocky trails.

Am I missing something re. Chain devises for 2x10? I just have a front mech and a bash guard, the chain doesn't drop off, is this not normal?

Your chain security is directly related to how fast you ride and over what kind of terrain. You're just not riding fast enough for it to be a problem.

Geetee, I don't doubt that for a moment. I still don't get it though, Shirley the mech stops the chain coming off the top and in the very rare moments it comes off the bottom you just put a pedal stroke in. Am I missing something?

I've ridden with neither a chain-device or a clutch-mech and lost my chain twice, maybe thrice in 3.5 years...

Front mechs are plenty to keep the chain on for 2x10/9. No chain device needed.

I tried it with just the mech on my single-ring setup, not enough though it did better than I expected. I think if you were tolerant of dropped chains it might do the job, but it quickly annoyed me.

But with just a tiny top-guide on now, it's done fine so far. It'll still drop the chain occasionally while not riding- lifting it over fences, out of cars etc- but I don't think it's dropped once while riding.

This is with a single-ring specific ring, and with an 11-36 cassette, which might be relevant since obviously that gives a lot more chainslack than a tighter ratio cassette.

Any reliability issues with the clutch mechanism? Does it work ok after prolonged mud submersions? difficult to clean? etc

XTR Shadowplus, never lost a chain since I got it on the bike several months ago. I've had no reliability issues and I don't hang around before anyone wonders if I'm riding hard enough.

😀

XTR Shadowplus, never lost a chain since I got it on the bike several months ago. I've had no reliability issues and I don't hang around before anyone wonders if I'm riding hard enough.

😀

Geetee, I don't doubt that for a moment. I still don't get it though, Shirley the mech stops the chain coming off the top and in the very rare moments it comes off the bottom you just put a pedal stroke in. Am I missing something?

A front mech helps keep the chain on a little bit, but there is more than enough room for a chain to drop off the outside of the ring - which why a bash ring helps. Even with a bash ring the chain can easily drop off to the inside, either onto the granny ring or the BB shell, at which point you have to stop and put it back on.

With just a top guide the chain will still come off the lower part but pedaling forward often solves this. It's more effective with guides that have a stiffer back plate. Flexy ones can cause the top guide to be pushed over by the chain torquing up against it.

All in all, a 2 by X set up with front mech and bash ring will be pretty good for most trail riders. With a lower guide it will be pretty good for anyone.

before anyone wonders if I'm riding hard enough

I don't wonder, I know. Really, unless you've gone with the new Sram 11-speed system that has special teeth to keep the chain on, if you're chain is staying on with no guide it's just because you're not putting enough force through the bike to cause it to jump off.

It really is simple physics; put enough energy through the system and the chain will jump around. That energy is either coming from speed over relatively small bumps or bigger bumps at lower speeds but either way, hit something hard and fast enough and the chain will come off.

Why do you think DH racers won't go anywhere near a race without a chain device?

....because they all run single rings. With a good chainline and correct gear selection 2x riders should not need a chain device. See Greg Minaars Nomad below;
[img] [/img]

All ye who knoweth not of geetee's all seeing eye will bow before him...

[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8030/8006880385_ef3e231e42_o.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8030/8006880385_ef3e231e42_o.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/takisawa2/8006880385/ ]jpeg[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/takisawa2/ ]pten2106[/url], on Flickr

Minarr's obviously a mincer or just rides fireroads, [i]only[/i] possible conclusion!

I've not built my bike up yet but i've got a Zee Shadow+ short cage and a Pauls Components Chain Keeper for the front, running on middleburn rs8 and 34th renthal ring with 11-36 rear so hoping that'll be enough to keep the chain on...i'll find out soon enough i guess.

Geetee, single ring I can totally see the need for a chain device but on a double ring with a mech?!?! Maybe I'm not gnar enough but my well set up mech and bash guard do the job for me. Generally, if it jumps off you pedal a couple of strokes and the chain is back on. If it good enough for Minaar it's good enough fit me (and you I suspect!)

Plenty of mixed opinions here so I might just have to give it a go and see how it works. As I was frustratingly dropping the chain every few seconds when the trail got bumpy with a normal mech I suspect I'll still need maybe a small top guide. Run 11-36 on the back so maybe quite a bit of slack in there when on the smaller sprockets.

Your chain security is directly related to how [s]fast[/s] smoothly you ride and over what kind of terrain. You're just not riding [s]fast [/s] clumsy enough for it to be a problem.

Fixed that for you GT
XT clutch and double ring here no need for the stinger I used to use, front mech does enough

Running 1*10 for a while,xt shadow plus rear mech and e13 top guide only. No dropped chain so far,and I have been trying 😀 the biggest difference was probably using a dedicated single front ring (hope) instead of a ramped one.

IME a 2-ring setup without a chain device will drop the chain about every 5 seconds.

That's in the Alps though. Haven't tried a clutch mech yet, need to check it out...

Are roots and rocks in the alps different to elsewhere?

I appreciate the descents are longer etc, but that's not really a contributing factor in losing chains...

....because they all run single rings. With a good chainline and correct gear selection 2x riders should not need a chain device. See Greg Minaars Nomad below;

[img] http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSwfZliFglKn6emDULz_wbZ_hLvT8Anm8y5wplIMvvLu2Ycsr9dDQ [/img]

It's easy to understand why though!

jam bo - we call that the "this [x] has always been fine at home" argument.

Insert your choice of chain device (or lack of), brake rotor, brake pad, saddle height, tyre, tube, etc. for [x].

It doesn't seem to help much.

Your chain security is directly related to how fast smoothly you ride and over what kind of terrain. You're just not riding fast clumsy enough for it to be a problem.
Fixed that for you GT
XT clutch and double ring here no need for the stinger I used to use, front mech does enough

I'm not clumsy but I am heavy. That said my 72kg riding partner recently tried this and dropped his chain five times in one ride.

What's the point in shadow+ if you still need cd? I assume they are more expensive.

What's the point in shadow+ if you still need cd? I assume they are more expensive.

So you only need to run a top guide which is lighter and cheaper than a full chain device.

superfli - Member

What's the point in shadow+ if you still need cd? I assume they are more expensive.

You might need less chain device. Also it generally reduces noise and slap which I reckon is just about worth the entrance price by itself.

I wonder how many people would buy a shadow plus rear mech but don't want to go 10 speed?

IME a 2-ring setup without a chain device will drop the chain about every 5 seconds.

It must vary from bike to bike, on my old enduro I used to drop the chain all the time (with no chain device, and clutch mechs didnt exist then). Now on my mojo HD I havent dropped it once (with no chain device amd no clutch mech)

It does vary quite a bit between different bikes, seems logical that those with more chain-growth in the suspension design would have more issues.

wrecker - maybe I should phone round all the other guides as well and suggest that they all take their chain devices off because they don't need them? I'll let you know what response I get... 😆

Was running 2 * 9 on my tracer and used to drop the chain enough to warrant fitting a e13 DRS chainguide. Now upgraded to 2 * 10 with shadow plus rear mech and have ditched the chainguide. Only lost the chain once or twice in a summer of thrashing it. Its not perfect but its a lot better, much quieter too which is nice.

Trailseeker - Member

I wonder how many people would buy a shadow plus rear mech but don't want to go 10 speed?

I definately would. That, and the 11-36 cassette. I'd like a 9-speed shortcage for my dh bike in particular since there's bugger all point in turning it 10-speed.

wrecker - maybe I should phone round all the other guides as well and suggest that they all take their chain devices off because they don't need them? I'll let you know what response I get...

Yeah. They're probably riding far gnarlier stuff than Minaar is. 😆

There are a lot of people on here who seem to have been riding with Greg Minnar. That's pretty cool. Do you know him personally or is he reaching a summer camp in the alps?

I run an XTR clutchy rear mech and an MRP top guide and I've never dropped a chain. With the clutch engaged I don't get any chainslap at all, to the point where I don't run any protective film on the carbon chainstay and there's no marks at all.

For the record, I'm also running a proper single ring at the front with no shift ramps and the teeth are a fair bit longer too, not sure if this helps or not. Prior to fitting the shadow plus, you could hear the chain touching each side of the chain device, now its silent.

I've ridden mine in some pretty nasty conditions and its still working perfectly.

I run an XTR clutchy rear mech and an MRP top guide and I've never dropped a chain. With the clutch engaged I don't get any chainslap at all, to the point where I don't run any protective film on the carbon chainstay and there's no marks at all.

For the record, I'm also running a proper single ring at the front with no shift ramps and the teeth are a fair bit longer too, not sure if this helps or not. Prior to fitting the shadow plus, you could hear the chain touching each side of the chain device, now its silent.

I've ridden mine in some pretty nasty conditions and its still working perfectly.

+ 1 for absolutley every in that passage ( - i run an xcx top guide only, but same prinicpal)

geetee1972 - Member

There are a lot of people on here who seem to have been riding with Greg Minnar. That's pretty cool.

I haven't been out with Minaar, but I have been riding with Stevo and ya know what? The people who had double chainrings and no chain device all complained that they were dropping their chains, and planned to get one when they got home.

But hey, they're not Greg Minaar so it probably counts for nothing.