[Closed] Clutch-off riding, what a difference...

You are Chris Porter and I claim my £5

Prefer to keep my chain on

My clutch stopped working at the weekend, trying to convince myself that it didn’t feel better afterwards. 2014 Five with a Cane Creek shock

My clutch needed adjusted a while back and was doing nowt

No idea if bike felt any better but j was amazed how rough you could get before dropping the chain.

Bike was like a bucking bronco giving it laldy through the top of the pitfichie DH track I was impressed I stayed on and the chain dropped. It had managed 4 other enduro stages before dropping.

I adjusted It and it's back to working as it should

cutches work well IME. what a lot of folk don't do though is adjust the tension. If it makes that noticable difference to riding the bike, find the balance point between feel and the clutch not doing it's job.

I've never thought of the clutch making a difference to suspension.  Not Orange bashing but I've heard that they are more prone to brake jack than other designs. Would it be similar reasons for the clutch?

amateur. i take my chain off at the top of every descent.

If I forget to flick the clutch on, my chain clatters aboot like Rees-Mogg in a coffin.

Maybe I'll try adjusting the tension then.  Don't get me wrong - the bike already felt very good indeed with the Float X doing a great job.  No clutch just made it better.  Never dropped the chain and the bike stayed quiet. 36s on the front might have helped with that.

Do people turn it on and off during a ride? Does it make it harder to pedal? - always told myself that was just my imagination.

I suspect you’re overthinking it. Clutch derailleurs are brilliant so far in my experience, the bike is almost silent compared to all the chain clattering bikes had back in the day.

*troll mode on* that's single pivot filing cabinets for ya  *off*

The clutch gives an amount of resistance to the swing arm moving, as effectively, it’s a strong spring to stop your chain rattling about/coming off, so on designs that extend the effective chain stay length through the movement (high single pivots, for example) you will feel a freer moving wheel with the clutch off, as less resistance. S’why some bikes feel ace with no chain.

Mine serpantly shifts gear better with it off.

How long till we have clutches that activate when you drop your saddle 🙂

It’s a moot point for me I think - I have Sram mechs that I don’t believe have an on/off switch and I’ve got a very active 4 bar suspension system anyway - none of this high single pivot stuff.

Even if you did happen to weigh 10 pounds and find the clutch was altering the curve of the suspension to a noticeable degree, would you not just compensate by running half a PSI less? Or remove a nugget of spacer from the air can to straighten it out a bit?

The biggest thing stopping your rear end moving is that big air/metal spring, the clutch is just a smaller spring.

the clutch is just a smaller spring

Not quite; it's adding stiction, not friction, and it's the complete antithesis to all the efforts to create low-stiction suspension systems with better seals, bearings and buttery smooth action.

If you have a system that has zero chain-growth through the suspension stroke then you can have both supple suspension, rattle-free riding & chain retention.

i.e. a derailleur with an idler or concentric pivot.

When you're riding your bike the system is sat in the travel, the chain pulling back to extended state, it's no more stiction than the spring on the suspension.

Yeah, that's the effect of the derailleur spring, not the clutch. the clutch (on a shimano derailleur) is most certainly stiction.

What am i missing here? The "clutch" is just the button that locks out the rear mech for when you take out the rear wheel (well thats what i use it for). I'm struggling to see how having the mech locked out (i.e. rigid) and a loose chain helps in any situation.

Or am i a moron who's missed the point of a key component of his own bike??

I switch them off as it makes the shifting lighter (Shimano this is). Dinky chain guide means I don't drop chains.

I like the sound of dropper+clutch initiation - both on a wireless loop?

The biggest thing stopping your rear end moving is that big air/metal spring, the clutch is just a smaller spring.

Isn't the shimano one a proper clutch working with friction, where the SRAM one is just a much stronger spring?

The difference between either and the shock itself though is the shock is allowing the rear wheel to move freely over the ground, the mech would have some impact on the rear wheel. Partially it would resist chainstay growth but equally it would keep the slack out of the chain which would mean each bump is 100% fed back to the pedals, whereas a slack chain would absorb a small amount first?

Black flag - I’m assuming you have a Sram mech. That button to lock the cage forward isnjistbto help with removing the wheel. It’s nothing to do with the clutch. Hats in they round looking bit just below the main derailleur body and it’s main purpose is to hold the chain taught during riding to stop chain slap and help retain the chain better on the chainring.

Interesting, does the SRAM setup differ? Would you not just loosen the screw a bit if it were noticeable?

Ignore me. I've just googled it. ha ha ive had that bike for 3 years and never even looked at the actual clutch.

The difference will depend a lot on which bike you try it on. A Five has a lot of chain growth through the suspension travel, so the effect will be more noticeable.

I’m not aware Sram derailleurs have an off button for the clutch, but then I’ve never looked for one either. The gears work / the chain doesn’t fall off / the chain doesn’t slap / my suspension works well, so I’m a happy bunny.

I’m not aware Sram derailleurs have an off button for the clutch, but then I’ve never looked for one either.

It's always on, the original one had a ptfe bush as the clutch which gave tou adjustable resistance, not sure what it was replaced with or if it's the same as it just works.

Makes more of a difference on certain bikes, yes. All I know is the rear suspension on my Five has gone from awesome to unreal, with no discernible trade-off yet. Still quiet and still keeping its chain on.

Makes no difference on my bike to plushness...

I do notice a bit of a difference, but as above if you get the tension right and more importantly give them a bit of love every few months it can make a difference - it's a 5 min job and super easy.

Isn't awesome better than unreal?

Makes no difference on my bike to plushness…

Bloody wild campists, leaving defunct shite lying about...

Isn’t awesome better than unreal?

Must have been some trip....

Could this be turned around to be some bikes struggle with suspension set up

What am i missing here? The “clutch” is just the button that locks out the rear mech for when you take out the rear wheel (well thats what i use it for). I’m struggling to see how having the mech locked out (i.e. rigid) and a loose chain helps in any situation.

Or am i a moron who’s missed the point of a key component of his own bike??

Yep, you've missed the whole point :-).

I suspect OP that your bike was also laterally stiff but vertically compliant that probably added at least 23 gnar points to your ride?

Or am i a moron who’s missed the point of a key component of his own bike??

Moron.

😉

The amount of actual force it imparts is small- it's enough to control the mech arm and therefore chain, it makes bugger all difference in the grand scheme with a 60kg+ rider smashing over rocks. You can take the shock out and test it in the stand and feel for all the difference that there isn't.

3x9 on my bike for just this reason. Never lose a chain & no sacrifice in suspension performance.

Never lose a chain & no sacrifice in suspension performance.

But how can you tell?

But how can you tell?

Maths & science, mainly. The coupling of some complicated trigonometry, kinematics & a free body diagram or two.

That, or I was just messing about & trying to justify my archaic resistance to adopting 'new tech'. You can decide, which. 😉 just in case....

The compresison-only friction damper on my suspension works a treat

Never use the clutch.

Makes too much of a différence to the shifting.

I unintentionally ran the first 1.5 stages of Ard rock practice with the clutch off. Didn't notice any significant improvement in suspension or any chain slapping noise (which is how i usually realise I have left the clutch off)  during stage 1. Coming down stage 2 I noticed the chain slapping noise and realised my mistake, thought I'd get away with it till the bottom of the stage. Had I still been running a standard chain ring I would have due to the chain guide, however with the oval I have to run the chain guide with clearance for the big diameter. So as soon as I got to a pedally bit and put the 'power' down to pass someone the chain dropped. Bloody typical, make me look a knob why don't you.

Clutch on for rest of practice and race day, no more issues. Think I'll run my clutch on, well at least when I remember.

amateur. i take my chain off at the top of every descent.

yes. That's the way to go.

Yes, I noticed a big difference too. When I back-pedalled half a turn to set up for a steep tight corner my chain fell off, jammed against the chainstay, and I came to a messy halt...

Never use the clutch.

Makes too much of a différence to the shifting.

Then adjust it.