Ignoring for now which one is more efficient or which you prefer, is there any difference in the risk of injury? If you took, say, 1000 mountain bikers on flats and another 1000 who were clipped in would there be any difference in the number (or severity) of injuries over, say, a five year period? Evidence would be nice, but guesses are fine too 🙂
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Flats safer.
Equal skill and bravery assumed, I'd guess that clipping in is going to save you from getting thrown off when riding rough stuff quickly, while flats is going to prevent low speed tip overs when you cock up a slow speed bit. Unless you are on the edge of a cliff or elevated wood features, the first is probably going to cause you a lot more damage. But more or less llikely? depends on how and where you ride.
I have fallen off many bikes, many times. I have no sense of balance at the best of times. I have, however, only once fallen over with my bike still attached to my person, in traffic, due to not being able to place one of my 2 feet on the ground for stability...I was clipped in. Very amusing for all who witnessed. Particularly as it was a very slow incident. I still ride clips, and flats, but flats are safer. I will still fall off though.
I ride both.
I wouldn't say that one is 'safer' than the other as they both have pluses and negatives. Bear in mind that with SPD's you can get different types of release cleats, so some with release from pretty much any angle or motion.
I am currently riding flats as I'm dealing with some pretty insane rocky drops out on the trails where I am hiding out from Covid. My friends who I am riding with are all using SPD's.
What I would say is that my legs are now a complete mess of ugly scars from the pins on my flats!
My intuition says:
For a given confident & decent rider, they're the same
For a total beginner, flats are probably safer as it's easier to bail
Flat pedal riders probably (on average) take more risks than SPD users so it's an impossible comparison.
I've ridden SPDs for years and I don't really think there's an issue with unclipping for me personally.
I ride flats but did use SPD for a long time.
SPD is most definitely safer. The number of times I've been pushing my bike or moving it around the garage and gouged myself with a pedal pin!
I'd imagine it depends a lot upon traction.
I'd much rather be riding on potentionally icy roads in flats, giving me a slightly better chance of an instintive save and then getting clear of traffic a bit quicker if I do hit the deck.
I had the odd dilemma this last winter, because my PX Das Boots were great for keeping my feet warm on the commute, but simply made sure I had at least one (front) of my 45Nrth Gravdal ice spike tyres fitted ready for borderline forecasts. I've yet to have any threat of a slide with the spike tyres over the last four winters, they've been brill to keep me riding to work in weather where in the past I would have had to take the bus (which means getting up earlier and in the last year increased Covid risk).
pros and cons to both. More likely to get a shin gash with flats, more likely to get stuck under the bike with spds or do the comedy topple
I reckon it would be impossible to gather any robust evidence one way or the other.
Riders select what pedals to use depending on what kind of riding they enjoy. You don't get any dirt jumpers with spd's and you don't get any xc racers with flats. Dirt jumpers probably break more ankles, but it's not because they're not clipped in.
There are probably some injuries caused by failure to unclip that would not have happened on flats, and there are probably also some injuries caused by feet bouncing/sliding off flats that would not have happened on spd's.
I have ridden clipped in for at least 20 years. The only times I have fallen off where I probably would not have with flats are where I have been going about 2 mph and got caught out by a ridge, edge of single track etc,. and lost my balance so quickly that didn't have time to unclip.
However, it would have been a disaster to have used flats for the 20 years as most of it was on fixed gear!
and there are probably also some injuries caused by feet bouncing/sliding off flats that would not have happened on spd’s.
Correct. Pin-shin encounters being top of that list :0
Flat cause more minor injuries but make it that bit easier to save or bail during bigger potential crashes.
1000 mountain bikers on flats and another 1000 who were clipped in
then you will probably get 2000 different opinions.
I first got SPD's when I was 15. Within two days I fell off and broke a rib, direct result of failing to unclip. 28 years have passed since then and its not happened again. Unclipping is a reflex reaction that I do not even think about.
For my style of riding the biggest risk is not failing to unclip but, instead, failing to engage/clip in when starting off on a steep downhill. If I don't clip first time I think I'll be fine to ride it like a flat, at which point I usually slip off.
I’d much rather be riding on potentionally icy roads in flats, giving me a slightly better chance of an instintive save
I find that, for truly instinctive saves, i.e. ones you don't think about, you just do, SPDs are fine. The problem comes when you're riding something and think "I hope I can unclip in time if this goes wrong", cos then you're screwed.
I've gone over the bars many many times on flats and SPDs. With both pedal types i've had occasions where i've hurdled the bars, been thrown over and got tabgled in the frame. The times i've not unclipped from SPDs have been low speed, at high speed i've found myself lying on my back looking up at a bike dropping onto me and thinking, "****, now this is going to hurt".
But, if you're lloking to hurt yourself i think that the 'enduro / dh' spds with pins would be the best of both worlds, pins to gouge you in the garage and when you miss the pedal on the trails and for the mis placed belief that they are dangerous.
I'm always clipped in, but ex. roadie. I don't like the look of those nasty pins on the pedals. All you get with an SPD is a bruise. Flats are more likely safer as you can dab.
I only ever rode off road with SPD pedals, until injuries meant I could no longer do so comfortably, as SPDs don't allow my knee to be where it feels comfortable. Which is a shame, because I liked SPDs. So I now only use flat pedals. I have to say, I don't feel any less safe on flats, and I didn't feel unsafe with SPDs once I got used to them. I do notice that my climbing isn't as good, but that's also down to age and injury, but the SPDs did help a bit there.
It would be an interesting study to see for sure.
Also relevant is the type of riding and also, what type of clipless system are we talking about.
With SPD, in order to not blow out from the pedals accidently I need to crank up tension to the point that I could anticipate some failures to release in case of trouble happening. Say, with Time, I rarely blow out of them while the actual release is still very easy.
I was on clips for about 10 years, then flats for the last 3 with some clipless experiments. Looking around for some clipless pedals as we speak.
Never had a crash on clips in which they failed to release, but can imagine some very awkward crashes that could compromise a knee or an ankle. So maybe more of a passive risk.
With flats there's more of an active risk, the pedal causing the crash. I can't recall the last time I slipped a pedal, even on the roughs, but have had issues like when a shift is delayed.
By the way, wasn't Owen Robinson recent gnarly crash caused by a slipped pedal?
I don't think it makes a huge difference either way
Within our group the people who ride clips fall off more (and deny it)
trouble is, if you looked at that study and saw 600 injuries per year from the 1000 on flats, and 400 injuries from the 1000 riders on spds, you might say, "great, I'll get spds!"
but you might then find out all 400 of the spd injuries are from circumstances you find yourself in on every ride, and only 2 of the flats injuries sound remotely plausible on the rides you do, you'd be going the other way.
So in the absence of detailed accident report data, you're into picking the bones out of a bunch of anecdotes and trying to assess them for relevance to your riding. which I guess is this thread.
How are you feeling so far?
Personally, I'm pretty much guaranteed at least one pedal gouge/scrape a year as I ride flats.
If I rode clipless, I'd be guaranteed a dodgy knee. Knackered ankle, foot's at a funny angle - I've tried Time and SPDs, my right knee no likey.
Chicks might dig scars (evidence is anecdotal at best) but a limp?
Wouldn't the type of rider who uses flats be more likely to crash as they'll be the rad jumpy droppy dh type?
Flats safer for total noobs and people into low speed tech. For all other riding I can't imagine there's a ton of difference assuming the clipless pedals (the ones that clip - grrr) are tuned for the rider.
But if this is about you, be a pro and do both (assuming you know that pedal threads are different on each side).
Flats are i suppose safer, in that you can plant a foot down but the point of pedals today is grip, and those grippy bits are in the form of sharp steel bits designed to rip shreds out of your shins and calves.
clips make jumping easier in that you dont get flung off as the back of the bike drops below you and we arent all trials gods who seem glued to flat pedals. I suppose with flats you also need balance, and clips are great for that to lift the back end around and over.
Personally im a bunny hopping failure, all attempts have led to disaster so I prefer to be attached to the bike despite the problems that causes. Nobody ever manages to unclip when they take a tumble, but rather the act of falling so spectacularly inadvertently causes the feet to twist and the grip onto the pedal clips to come undone.
I found this suggesting that they do present a risk
Although it's hardly a big study
I also remember some where saying that A&E admissions were up due to clipless but goodness knows where
There is a bit here
clips make jumping easier in that you dont get flung off as the back of the bike drops below you
That's not a thing... or maybe you're doing something very weird when you jump?
Have we also considered the off bike injuries?
Pedal gouges while wheeling the bike*, vs falling over due to shoes not really the best for walking in?
I get this maybe once a month. Still never done it while riding, don't understand how people slip off pedals, but thats another argument.
I only ride Clips but based on the issues I have at times ie forgetting I am clipped, happens at least 2-4 per annum usually no ones sees but still embarrassing.
I am tempted to try flats but just don't like the pins and Shins issue.
Flats = “minor” and multiple flesh wounds
Clips = everything else
Fell off reasonably well with clips, jiggered my knee because I was still attached.
My experience is that the meanier and scarier the pins look, the less likely they are to end up in your shin because the pedal will be grippy enough for that to never happen.
That whole slipped pedal to the shin happens on 90s or supermarket plastic pedals, but is very rare on proper grippy modern pedals and shoes
Long time SPD user, I had a big crash when a worn cleat decided to unclip me in mid air...
Ask me in 6 months after I had a bit more time on flats but initial feeling is flats feel safer.
Flats and you're more likely to put your foot down stopping to take a quick look, which is not safer when it's onto a bracken cornice above a gully. On the other hand it means you don't have to unclip when crawling out from under your bike, after it's subsequent topple into a stream bed.
My shin scar tissue say clips are safer, my shoulder scar tissue says flats are safer but tbh tightening the crank arm sufficiently so it stayed connected would have prevented that little beauty.
Thanks all,
I've seen quite a few discussions about clips vs flats but they tend to focus on efficiency or the "connected feel" and I've not seen much on whether one is more risky than the other, so it's good to hear these comments. My own feeling is that clips may lead to more low speed crashes, but they don't tend to be the ones that cause injuries and I'm not sure there is much difference at higher speeds where the force of any crash tends to "release you" from the bike anyway. But I tend to use clips on road and gravel but flats on the MTB so don't have much experience with clips on the MTB.
The back of my calfs would say flats cause more injuries, hence less safe.
I cannot think of a crash or injury, other than pedal gouges, where I’ve thought ‘that wouldn’t have happened if I’d been riding flats/clips (delete as appropriate).
If you took, say, 1000 mountain bikers on flats and another 1000 who were clipped in would there be any difference in the number (or severity) of injuries over, say, a five year period? Evidence would be nice, but guesses are fine too
I don't think anyone can back up saying Jono Jones failed to unclip on hardline due to lack of experience in riding clipped in... and I'd put money if he could have a magic button he could press before the backflip magically changing his shoes and pedals to flats he'd have pressed it.
I prefer flats to SPD’s as I’ve had a couple of bad crashes out of the blue where I couldn’t unclip in time. One of these resulted in a badly broken arm. Flats result in the shin thing but you get used to it. For me flats are safer as you can simply let go of the bike when things go sideways. Rode SPD’s for years and being attached to the bike resulted in plenty of comedy and painful offs compared to the bail and break fall of flats.
I use spds on my road and hybrid commuter bike. I use flats off road mountain biking. Any crashes I've had involving motorised vehicles have been when on spds.
I take this as conclusive evidence that flats are safer 🙂
Ironically, I don’t like the floatey feeling whenever I use spds now (which is very rarely) because on decent flat pedals/shoes you actually have no float, unless you lift your foot off to reposition it.
I imagine whichever pedal you choose to ride with is probably safer, hence why the rider chose it. Most people have tried both, and settled for the one which suited them best.
Extensive (and exclusive) use of one system will probably make the other more dangerous.
shouldnt the question be 'which is faster'? safety should always be secondary to speed, in which case the answer is clips.
My own feeling is that clips may lead to more low speed crashes, but they don’t tend to be the ones that cause injuries and I’m not sure there is much difference at higher speeds where the force of any crash tends to “release you” from the bike anyway. But I tend to use clips on road and gravel but flats on the MTB so don’t have much experience with clips on the MTB.
If you are waiting for the bike to release you your in for a bad crash ...
Here is the bike releasing someone with clips ...
I found flats to be faster in a test I conducted whereby I threw one of each of the pedals types down the length of my garden.
shouldnt the question be ‘which is faster’? safety should always be secondary to speed, in which case the answer is clips.
Agreed, but personally, I find bravery to be my limiting factor to downhill and/or technical speed. I'm more willing/less cautious on low speed tech both uphill and down; and much more confident leaning over on a loose corner in flats. Almost certainly a mental issue rather than physical, but seems to be faster for me.
To the original poster - Its a bit of an impossible question to answer as if you have a 'mishap' and you are on say Clips it would be very difficult to know if that exact same incident would have been worse or better for you on Flats unless you do an 'exact' recreation on Flats which is just not possible.
Best your going to get is purely anecdotal views and comments - nothing more than that.
Can't speak for the wider audience but for me, clips are safer. I ride flats when messing about with the kids, just cos it's easier and in those situations I'm always on/off the bike and let's face it, spd shoes wouldn't be great for collecting branches to build a den.
It's probably because I've ridden clips for so long and got a bit lazy, but I really can't jump on flats as I lose the bike. Have also said many times how quickly it's possible to unclip and dab if required so I've never had any issues as far as that goes either.
End of the day, the safest pedals are the ones that make the rider feel the safest.
Flat pedals definitely do more damage to shins and pretty much anything else they come into contact with.
I found flats to be faster in a test I conducted whereby I threw one of each of the pedals types down the length of my garden.
Re speed, I conducted a similar technical experiment whereby I fitted a clipless pedal on the left crank of my bike and a flat pedal on the right.
I then raced over a 1km distance and found the clipless pedal to be a microsecond faster. Further analysis concluded that the clipless pedal had started half a crank rotation ahead of the flat pedal proving each were in fact equally fast.
I repeated the experiment over various distances with consistent results proving distance was not a factor.
I'm hoping that this scientific experiment can finally close the age old which is faster debate.
To the original poster – Its a bit of an impossible question to answer as if you have a ‘mishap’ and you are on say Clips it would be very difficult to know if that exact same incident would have been worse or better for you on Flats unless you do an ‘exact’ recreation on Flats which is just not possible.
Agreed, which is why I tried to pose the thought experiment of a thousand riders on each and looking over a long enough period that all the different scenarios would play out over each group.
Best your going to get is purely anecdotal views and comments – nothing more than that.
Well that's true for most of the forum, but it's just a bit of fun 🙂
I do quite like the idea of using clips on the MTB (as I do for road and "gravel"). As basically an XC mincer it would suit a lot of my riding and when I've tried it I have quite liked that connected feeling. But I can't shake the feeling that I'm just increasing my chance of injury.
Flats generally I'd say, but on my hardtail I used to run spds as I got bounced off the pedals on rocky/rooty terrain, so it's dependant on the riding.
For general trail and xc I dont think there is any difference though
The back of my calfs would say flats cause more injuries, hence less safe.
Huh, someone else said something along these lines just the other day.
Virtually all of my flat pedal bites are on the shins. What is happening that the back of your calfs are getting it?
I was actually doing some flat pedal dismount drills earlier, found it quite informative tbh.
The answer is whichever one you usually ride, I'm definitely safe on clips but then they are what I usually ride.
Flats safer for me on my FS
Clipless safer on my 'enduro' hardtail.
depends what you ride, and on what bike
but one thing for sure, anyone who says spd are worse as unable to clip out off, haven't used them long enough.
judging by my left calf , spds are safer :0)
that said, last few crashes for me have been on gravel bike clipped in,
ROVERPIG "Well that’s true for most of the forum, but it’s just a bit of fun 🙂" "I tried to pose the thought experiment"
Well in that case I can answer the question...
If I imagine I am clipped in and on a steep slope on the edge of a drop and the bike slides away from me and I cant unclip and fall down the slope with my bike to my death then I can honestly say Flats are safer.....
However if I imagine I am on flats and pushing down a good run and over a big bump my feet loose contact with the pedals and I loose the bike and slam into a tree then I can honestly say that Clips are safer.....
Hopefully that helps 😉
(Personally I ride Flats and feel safer on them - I have no particular reason or evidence to support that its just how I feel)
I think you might be misunderstanding the experiment 🙂
The point of following a hypothetical 1,000 riders for five years is that it should tell you which of your scenarios is more likely and therefore which is more risky. Of course nothing will tell you what will happen to you. You could be that guy who smokes 40 a day and lives to 100 but we still know that's a risky thing to do.
"Hypothetical 1,000 riders.." (presumably the 5 years is Hypothetical as well)
"Thought Experiment.."
"Evidence would be nice, but guesses are fine too.."
"but it’s just a bit of fun.."
I think I have understood it perfectly well ....... 🙂
Recently got back into flats for messing about in the woods and re learning some old skills. Feel safer using flats for that.
On SPD's I still feel safe as I might hold back a bit on some technical stuff, but when pedalling I am much faster with SPDs.
It's about choosing the right tool for the job.
I have a scar on my head from flat pins, I doubt I'd have that if I was still on spds, so, flats.
TBH I don't think either is safer or less safe, or at least, not meaningfully when we're talking about normal everyday riders.- the thing that's safe or not is the pilot and that drowns out anything the pedals can do. If you're not safe on spds because you needed to dab or something, that's not because of spds, it's because of needing to dab.
