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After 20+ years of actual mountain biking I am about to grow up and learn something that I should have done a long time ago.
Motivated by curiosity (but mostly by 50% discounts on shoes and pedals) than any perceived boost in performance or riding ability, I am going to learn to clip in.
Now, I've definitely clipped in before, but only for one ride every 5 years or so. I always found it terrifying trying to attack technical trails with my feet attached to the bike. But, it's clearly the correct, mature way to ride a bike properly so I need to stick with it and figure it out.
I have never invested in decent pedals, they were usually borrowed, and I have never tried modern shoes. Shoes where the cleats go all the way back to where I would actually like to have my foot positioned on the pedals. I hated being perched on my toes with my heels swinging from my tortured hamstrings.
I've quickly tried these in the garage and my foot sits in a really nice spot. They also accommodate a bit of my duck-foot stance. It feels promising. I chose shoes that get good reviews for hiking around off the bike, so when I go over the bars and slide down a hill, I can climb back to the trail.
I can't ride until tomorrow morning. I'm also home alone with no car so it'll be a mellow local test ride.
How long before I go crawling back to flats?
EDIT: Only half my post is showing up with no pictures.
Those nukeproof pedals come extremely tight from factory
Fully tighten the mechanism and leave it over night and then loosen off (i have 2 pairs)
I also point the cleat towards my big?little? i cant remember? toe so that i have just enough rotation of my foot before unclipping easily, and so that i can't rotate my heel into the bike
I can see all your post and pics?
Spend a few mins clipping in and out in a park/field (so you’ve a softish landing for the inevitable) then by the time you’re back from your first ride it will be second nature. I still twist my feet when coming off flat pedals, despite not having used clips for years (foot issue, would love to go back.) best bit about them is having you foot in the right place, all the time.
Ride on grass when learning to clip in and out!
Also riding clipped in is not the correct way, its just one of the ways in which you can ride a bike. I do both, just not on the same bike...
Yep, try them on grass. Avoid gravel. Wear gloves!
I can see all your post and pics?
Yeah it's all visible now, it was half missing at first!
If I do get out tomorrow it'll be a chill one up through the Parks in Sheffield. It's not general pedalling around I'm worried about it's when I get to steep trails and stuff with drops and jumps. The stuff I actually enjoy riding. That's where I've always bottled it in the past.
Clips are to flats what road is to trail.
Stop right now. Return everything and get a full refund 😉
Use the force* Luke.
*No not Parcel Force
Edit for winky face just on case get taken seriously.
To get started....choose a straightforward route.
Clip-In Clip-Out. Clip-In Clip-Out. Clip-In Clip-Out. Clip-In Clip-Out. Clip-In Clip-Out.
Just keep doing it. Even when you don't need to.
Loosen the pedal tension as much as possible to start with.
Be aware of which way you are leaning as you unclip. Nothing worse than tipping left as you unclip with your right foot and by the time you realise what's going on you have no way of getting your left foot unclipped.
Then just as you think you are getting the hang-of it and it's second nature. You'll fall off 😁
It's not general pedalling around I'm worried about it's when I get to steep trails and stuff with drops and jumps. The stuff I actually enjoy riding. That's where I've always bottled it in the past.
You just need to persevere with it for long enough to become second nature & then it doesn't really matter what the terrain is. You unclip with no conscious thought. But, it's really just time using them.
I have to say, I've been riding clipped in for yeeeeeeeeeears, but if I hadn't been there's no way I'd start now. In fact I'd switch to flats but it's the thought of having to 'unlearn' riding clips (like I'd have to learn how to bunnyhop properly...) that puts me off.
I can see all your post and pics?
Yeah it's all visible now, it was half missing at first!
If I do get out tomorrow it'll be a chill one up through the Parks in Sheffield. It's not general pedalling around I'm worried about it's when I get to steep trails and stuff with drops and jumps. The stuff I actually enjoy riding. That's where I've always bottled it in the past.
Take a couple of these, then ride it all as normal, you’ll wonder what you were worried about.
I ride mallets on my trail bike and flats on my ebike. I find with the shorter travel bike that being clipped in feels a lot better as my feet never get bounced when things get too rough. With the weight and travel of the ebike that never feels like a problem and also means I still get some use out of the 3 pairs of five tens I've got.
One tip that might make things easier, if the pins come into contact with the sole of the shoe when clipped in, then back them right off until you're used to it as they can make it harder to clip in but more importantly, clip out, especially on new shoes.
I suppose you just need to asl yourself how many times you need to bail and dab when riding the lumpy stuff on flats. If the answer is "all the ****ing time" then I suggest suggest reading sirromj's post again, if the answer is "actually only ever once in a while and I can't remember the last time...." then don't worry about it.
Until you stop in front of the cafe, then just laugh like everyone else is!!....
Echo what the above poster says about NP clipless. Even with them fully backed off they're crazy tight. I have them wound all the way out and they took quite a few rides to loosen up to something that didn't feel suicidal.
I'm using them with Hellcats, which allow the cleats to be slammed all the way back (lifelong fiat rider here) and also have wildfowl stance, and they work ok for me.
I still can't ride as aggressively as I can with flats, I think I may need to modify the shoes to get them even further back, they just don't feel 'right', and I'm about a year in.
I bought some NP clipless in the CRC fire sale and find them terrifyingly tight so have gone back to Shimano M520s. I'll try the trick of winding them all the way in for a couple of days though. I think I'd like the platform as a bit of extra space/protection, plus they are a fun colour...
As ads says, if you never really dab with flats then you shouldn't need to with clips either
also remove the pins so you just have the cleat and the platform for support.
push the cleat really far back so it feels similar to flats, i do this with the hope gravity
A friend of mine had never ridden clipped in before. Tempted by stiffness and efficiency, he bought brand new SPD shoes & pedals...
On a beautiful day, he set off in excitement. He got all of 100 yds to the end of the road and fell off at the junction.
After spending a few minutes lying on his back like a cockroach, he managed to get up.
He straightened his Turban, and pushed his bike back home (shoes still attached to the pedals).
The end.
PS I've always ridden clipped in. The moral of the story is don't be that guy. Loosen those tension bolts, and practice somewhere safe. You'll get the knack pretty quickly. 👍
A mate uses Nukeproof clips and says their own brand cleats work far better than Shimano cleats (which do work but apparently are harder to unclip from). Personally I find techy climbs are the only time I ever fall over due to being unable to unclip, very rarely but I've been using clips on all bikes for as long as I can remember (Crank Brothers Mallet DH with Mallet shoes)
You can practice in the kitchen leaning up against the worktop or fridge and just do it loads until you know exactly what it feels like and where the shoe - pedal interface needs to be. then go and practice in the park, and then on the road. When you are coming up to a junction/cafe, clip out a bit before you need to so you don't cause max amusement to the public. And as stumpy says, as soon as you're dialled in hubris will catch you out and you'll pratfall.
Have been riding clips on all bikes for 25+ years and it's great.
Everyone falls off. Just make sure you stop over a soft surface the first few times.
I learnt off road on 524’s, flat one side and spd on the other. When things got a little technical, I’d unclip beforehand in preparation for a dab or stop. Gradually I stopped feeling the need and swapped to double sided XTs. I’d been riding clipless on the road for a long time already. It’ll soon come naturally.
I've somehow got away with never having a clipless "incident" despite having used them on road bikes for years. I did try it on MTB for a bit and really liked the feeling of being connected and always having my feet in the correct position, just one less thing to think about - I hate starting a trail and not having my feet quite right or if they get bumped off halfway down. I don't ride much tech/dabby trails though so unclipping was never really a problem for me.
What I didn't like was how it feels like you're stood on 2 blocks of ice, at least with the standard M520s. Wouldn't mind trying it again with something like the Hope DH pedals which seem to be well regarded as having a pretty good flat-esque feel.
I have to say, I've been riding clipped in for yeeeeeeeeeears, but if I hadn't been there's no way I'd start now. In fact I'd switch to flats but it's the thought of having to 'unlearn' riding clips (like I'd have to learn how to bunnyhop properly...) that puts me off.
whilst my knee(s) aren’t quite as bad as IHN this is where I’m at as well….
very curious to ride flats but unlearning probably 25-30 years of clips is daunting…
its a shame Shimano don’t do the DX clippy flats anymore.. they were ace pedal
it must also be said its VERY satisfying to unclip, hang a foot out for a corner and stamp straight back into the pedal…
(we won’t talk about the times you miss and flounder around looking for a footing)
Crank Bros are your friends for this. Very easy to get in and out of.
I can switch between clips or flats without a thought, but - ebike is always flats for me. The torque and power can mean too many quick rear wheel slippages and down like a sack of shit before you can even blink
I've ridden flats all year as I knew there was going to be a lot bike rentals this year and didn't want to have to carry extra pedals and shoes around the world.
Unfortunately, I don't think it's good for my knees (old MCL injuries). Presumably it's the lack of float meaning extra resistance to twisting. I don't notice when riding but at night times after riding the ligaments ache.
I’m in the camp of liking clips but I wouldn’t learn them at 40+ for MTB. The benefit is tiny even when they do become second nature, but more importantly I’m not sure my brain is wired for learning something like that at this stage in life, and the likelihood of a traffic light putting me off work for a week is non zero…
Old dogs, new tricks and all that.
Maybe I’m being pathetic. Enjoy the new toys.
@tom try Crank Brothers Mallets as they have a proper platform and give a lovely feel with a more flexibly soled shoe
I’m in the camp of liking clips but I wouldn’t learn them at 40+ for MTB
I forced myself to learn them better for xc and CX racing post 40. I'd used them for years on road/gravel but not where it was trickier. The two big revelations were positioning the cleat further back and running them loose. I have them set so they don't come out on spint starts, finding that point one click at a time (3/4 clicks depending on pedal). Getting out very quickly is so much more pleasant on the CX bike with them looser and still get the benefits. Still flats for technical and back country riding though.
It's ironic isn't it - when moving from flats to clipless people are generally worried about their feet being more securely attached to the pedals in technical terrain with no chance of them being blown off.
I'm lucky enough to be able to swap between flats & clips having ridden both for 20yrs
@tom try Crank Brothers Mallets as they have a proper platform and give a lovely feel with a more flexibly soled shoe
Yeah those seem to come up a lot, I also read a lot of less than good things about reliability and fast cleat wear so was thinking the Hope ones might be similar in feel, but being Hope they'd be built to last.
It's an odd one definitely. For me I can see the benefit of being clipped in getting over obstacles in technical terrain. In fact there are climbs I've cleaned on clips that I struggle on with flats, ones featuring step ups especially as the forward momentum that sometimes moves your foot off the flats actual instead goes into the pedal and gets you over the obstacle. On the flip side I've seen some horrible crashes in more difficult terrain where a flat pedal rider would easily have got their foot down. Therefore for me flats are the way forward where the cost of getting it wrong is high, e.g. somewhere where mountain rescue would be needed.
Switched to flats after 25+ years on clips at the start of this year. Flats feeling very natural for me now but I'm still likely to switch back for some riding -
The times clips really come into their own are on rough trials where you're getting bounced around - and that can be up or down. I failed a tech climb the other day as a foot got mispositioned after the previous step.
There are reasons nearly all racers are in clips most of the time.
And there are definitely benefits to being able to physically move the bike because you're attached to it - cheating or not, bunny hops, steps etc are much easier (and less physical) with clips.
Whereas on flats I'm riding 'foot out' a bit more on sketchy flat turns than I used to (though I've never really had an issue getting in or out - will be interesting to ride clips again and see if I do it with them too).
You just need to persevere with it for long enough to become second nature & then it doesn't really matter what the terrain is. You unclip with no conscious thought. But, it's really just time using them.
I reckon I got this from commuting on them for years. Only ever had one or two topples in the first few weeks - after that it was always just second nature. I'm still clipped in on my road bike, not on my Brompton, not on my mtb and no issues mixing it up either. The thing that worries me (and time will tell) is using the clip cheat modes off road again and then switching back to flats...whether my unconscious actions will always be in the right mode. Time will tell.
The two big revelations were positioning the cleat further back and running them loose
I had Look shimano compatible and Shimano Saint most recently (Time for a long while some years before). Ran everything very tight.
In fact there are climbs I've cleaned on clips that I struggle on with flats
I noticed this too, I felt like being attached to the bike I committed more to those techier sections since the bailout option isn't quite as easy.
Having gone from Toe Clips to SPDs, riding clipped in was a massive improvement, felt like a good compromise between flats and toe clips/straps. I used to ride flats when it was muddy but then came Crank Bros Eggbeaters which were great apart from the reliability issues but then Shimano sorted out their pedals so they started to work much better in muddy conditions and I switched back to SPDs even though I still miss the float on the Eggbeaters/Candys/Mallets.
I love them for riding on rough trails but mostly for the fact that my feet are always in the right place, these days on flats I end up with knee/hip issues if my feet aren't in exactly the right spot on the pedals for too long. (this also means lots of trial and error setting up the cleat position on new shoes)
Ride on grass when learning to clip in and out!
Also riding clipped in is not the correct way, its just one of the ways in which you can ride a bike. I do both, just not on the same bike...
This - x100.
Don't get all worked up about it being Black and White and having to commit to one side forever.
True Zen is acheived when you are happy using either - I've been riding both clips and flats, on any bike, for years, depending on many difference factors such as the trail, my fitness, who im with, the weather, etc etc.
In fact there are climbs I've cleaned on clips that I struggle on with flatsI noticed this too, I felt like being attached to the bike I committed more to those techier sections since the bailout option isn't quite as easy.
Definitely. You can get two or three 'bites' when on flats you'd pit your foot down.
I survived my first excursion.
I just pedalled over to Parkwood and back because it's fairly close to home. There's nothing tech over there but they do have loose gravelly berms and switchbacks and some small jumps. Perfect for messing around on.
No problems at all clipping out but clipping in is hit and miss, literally. I was jabbing at the pedals quite a bit before finding the right place and then the engagement wasn't always obvious.
Normal riding around, no problems whatsoever. I managed to hit some of the smaller doubles and pop some mannies in the rollers. I was a bit scared of washing out and not being able to dab but it didn't happen. It's very dry and dusty today.
I recognise the 'standing on an ice cube' description from when I've tried clips before but it's mostly absent here. I assume the shoe is flexing to meet the platform but I need a second pair of eyeballs to confirm it. Anyway, it feels like a normal pedal most of the time which is perfect.
I did experience a bit of 'float'. On berms and jumps where I'm using a bit of body language, if one of my feet goes light I can feel it swivel a bit. Is this normal or should they be set tighter?
Also, these pedals were £48. So, I'd like to try Crank Brothers or Hope but they at least double the price. I'll try them later if I stick with it.
The shoes were £80 and I'm very happy with them. They put my feet almost where I would put them on a flat pedal and they're comfy and grippy for walking around in. If there's a shoe where the cleats go even further back I'd be keen to try them.
So for the first time ever, I'm leaving the clips in place for a second attempt. The real test will be Wharny or Win Hill when it starts getting steep and rough.
2nd hand Mallets if you want to try them, you can often get a set for £30-£40 and they usually just need new bushings and some grease.
I've got a set of those pedals. I got completely stuck in them, a combination of them being brand new and sand on / in the cleats. I knew I wasn't going to get my feet out so just fell onto a grassy bank. Had to be rescued by a passing dog and their kind owner
Pretty embarrassing. The pedals are in a box in the garage.
Used pedals are a good way to try out different t ones - there are always loads of people who try and don’t like.
frankly different cleat systems are worth trying (time/cb/shimano) but if it’s shimano compatible I don’t think you’ll see much difference. Theresa very difficult balance with clip in large platforms between giving some support and stopping you rotating your gout to clip out. (Almost no one actually uses the pins in the for that reason.
Saint gave a bit of support with some shoes. Have heard mixed reports on hope (and they’re mighty pricy). Saw something that looked cool the other day but hadn’t been launched yet.
I have clips on all my bikes. Totally ingrained. So much that when I was riding my son's bike back to his flat after servicing it I bunny hopped a kerb and crashed. He uses flats so I just jumped off the pedals and the bike clattered into the kerb.
Only pride hurt but naturally there were several nearby pedestrians wondering why that that man crashed into the kerb.
I prefer "SPD dunce" to numpty. I rode for years with either flats or clips and straps then at 30 bought my first clicky pedals. I persisted but found that crashes usually ended with me going down with my bike and getting hurt. So I started alternating SPDs for racing and flats for fun. Then I went down with the bike and broke my knee when I was absolutely certain I'd have just stepped off the bike with flats. Since then MTB = flats.
I got an XC hardtail late last year and put on the candys I used to have on my Sugar- first time MTB clipping in for c15 years. No real issues. When I've stacked it before, I've never remained attached to the bike. I find its like skiing, you either have the "ohh shit...." moment and have enough time to flick the ankle out or the force of the tumble unclips you.
I don't think I've ever had a crash that has been caused or worsened by being clipped in but I've probably saved myself from a few sketchy moments due to being clipped in.
The best clipless crash for me was when my cleat bolts slackened up slightly allowing the cleat to twist more and more every time I unclipped.
Cue stopping at a point waiting for mates to catch up, they catchup to witness me fall sideways and roll down the bank as I couldn't work out why I was stuck.
I did experience a bit of 'float'. On berms and jumps where I'm using a bit of body language, if one of my feet goes light I can feel it swivel a bit. Is this normal or should they be set tighter?
As this part seems to have been ignored...
Adjusting the tension doesn't change the float. The tension is purely the affecting the force required to separate the mechanism and allow your foot out. Float is build into the system to allow your foot to move before the release mechanism is pushed against
What I did for my first ride was swap my pedals in Chatel carpark, and jump in the first trail in front of me.
This may or may not have been the best way to start riding clipless as I didn’t commit hard enough to the first berm, slid out and slit my wrist on the one pointy stone! A bit of superglue and duct tape and I was ready to try again. Kept them on for the next 12 months to give them a proper chance.
Having tried Crank Bros and Shimano we definitely prefer Shimano for feel and use. I have some old DXs and the wife has switched to Hope Union Gravity pedals this summer. Neither of us could get on with the feel of Mallets
Good luck and have fun
He uses flats so I just jumped off the pedals and the bike clattered into the kerb.
That's similar to how I found moving to flats after years of SPDs. Very unnerving jumping off the pedals immediately before riding a drop!
I'm completely used to flats now and probably would need to retrain myself if I wanted to use SPDs again.
Has anyone gone back to SPDs after learning flats (to a natural level)? Curious to know if, for someone knowing the flat pedal technique for bunny hops, being attached can be taken advantage of for boosting height even further?