[Closed] Clipless curious

Shoes - You can pick up a well priced pair of Scott shoes from Start Cycles, or just pick a pair of Shimano or Specialized at a price that suits.

Pedals - As a start point Shimano M530's have a small cage, are cheap and will last a long time if you like them.

Will you die? - No, but you will have a comedy slow speed fall, more than likely at some traffic lights. Everyone has one, no damage will be done and you'll only do it once or twice. Every bike I have bar my cargo bikes has clips on them, they are the way forward!

The degrees is the amount of float your feet have, ie how much they will roatate before you start to clip out.

Stiffer soles are MUCH better on clipless, as you need them for the support. You don’t want your soles flexing around the mechanism, as that is always proud of any ‘platform’ they have, as it won’t be comfy.

As for clipping out, ride round a field for a bit, practicing until it becomes instinctive. I ran flats for 15 years before trying clips, I now rotate my feel when stepping off flat pedals, such is the instinct, but the only reason I run flats at the moment is that I can’t get my dickie foot into my spd shoes.

+1 for Shimano pedals and for shimano/Specialized shoes

mainly because I’ve seen people stop and fall off without unclipping

That only happens once or twice if you are unlucky. Perhaps not at all if you use multi-release cleats. When you buy pedals the cleats usually have an M printed on - this means that they come out if you twist as normal but also if you yank upwards hard. This should prevent the falling over first time thing. However it also increases the risk of accidental disengagement.

Re shoes - even fully stiff race shoes are quite walkable - they aren't like road shoes. Get something that fits, but don't get too soft soles because you won't get the full advantage. Having said that, you might want 'enduro' shoes which are more walkable than XC shoes.

and well #flatpedalswinmedals

They win medals going downhill off-road. Not so much elsewhere though. If you want to cover distance or go uphills with maximum efficiency then clipless is ideal, IMO. Before anyone accuses me of bias, I use both - flats on my long travel fun bike, where they excel, but I wouldn't put them on my XC or adventure bike, no way. It'd ruin the experience.

The type of pedal should match the type of riding you want to do.

looking for some that won’t break the bank

The inexpensive Shimano pedals are excellent and surprisingly cheap.

Will you die? Yes, at some point but probably not because of the pedals.

As above - everybody has a comedy (to onlookers) moment when they fail to unclip in time. You can adjust the amount of tension holding the cleat to the pedal so start with things very slack and tighten up as you get used to things.

I've clips on all my bikes bar the fat bike. The HT swaps between flats and clips depending on my mood and what I've robbed to put on other bikes

Check out CRCs clearance section for shoes, they always have some random 2 year old Shimano shoes (which are generally very good) with a crazy discount.

4 degree and 8 degrees cleats are the amount of twist you need to release the cleat - its only Crank Bros pedal that have this type of cleat though. Shimano pedals have a fixed amount of twist. Cleats come with pedals not with shoes.

Will you die - probably not. I go through phases of riding flats or clipless, the only bike that's always clipless is my commuter. I think its a good idea to be able to ride both

When you buy pedals the cleats usually have an M printed

I'd question that, every pair of Shimano pedals I've bought have come with normal cleats. Either way, I think multi-release cleats are the work of the devil, terribly vague and unpredictable. Normal cleats may take 15 minutes longer to get used to but are much, much better in normal usage.

Thanks all.
Yes looking more 'Enduro-bro' than XC/Road.
Those Shimano pedals look surprisingly nice/good for the money.
Will have a look at other shoes too - quite like the look of the Shimano AM range - seem to be available at a decent price too if I shop around.

Thread hijack;

What's the shoes I've heard off where the cleats are set further back? They sound ideal for MTB as when I tried clipping in years ago it was like I was pedalling with my tip toes.

Is there an ideal pedal/cleat for people with bad knees? On my very few clipped in rides I suffered knee pain and I couldn't get the cleats in the right place as I stand like a duck with my feet at 10 to 2.

Although admittedly I've never tried Shimano pedals ( big fan of their shoes) ..I've been on Time pedals for at least twenty years and wouldn't readily change to anything else ( they have more float than Shimano) ..as for flats ..not for me ..
Hope you are keeping well Chris..

I'd buy some second hand shoes to start out & see how you go, you can pick up stuff like the Specialized 2FO's for not much money & if it's a disaster, you can punt them on for probably what you pay for them.

Pedals wise, the NP look pretty good actually. I would start with winding the pins right in though, as 'the moment' of needing to unclip be it coming to a halt and forgetting, or losing control and going down with the ship you will instinctively just lift and find you can't & then it just gets worse from there. I like the CB Mallet (not DH - too heavy, or the E - stupid short axle makes it really hard to unclip at certain points as your foot fouls the crank arm before the mechanism releases) despite their ability to fall apart, the extra bit of float is nice.

You will rapidly find that if you ride at any sort of pace, the fallacy of having grip on the platform when mot clipped in, is just that. It's comparable to standing on an ice cube if you're used to decent shoes & flats.

Tried it many a time, stuck at it for nearly 6 months & whilst the security is nice in high speed chunk, everywhere else for me, they suck 🙂

@sharkattack - there's a hack (literally) where you drill the sole of the shoes to fit the cleat further back but it does depend on the shoe. Out of the box most are designed to have the cleat somewhere around the ball of the foot - I set mine as far back in the slots as I can.

and well #flatpedalswinmedals

They win medals going downhill off-road. Not so much elsewhere though. If you want to cover distance or go uphills with maximum efficiency then clipless is ideal, IMO. Before anyone accuses me of bias, I use both – flats on my long travel fun bike, where they excel, but I wouldn’t put them on my XC or adventure bike, no way. It’d ruin the experience.

To be fair, in racing, there are only a few top riders on flats. Sam Hill in Enduro, Brendan Fairclough in DH... Most of 'em are clipped in.

Thanks again.
Any opinions on these shoes:

[url= https://www.evanscycles.com/shimano-mt300-mtb-spd-shoes-EV365352 ]Shimano MT300 £35[/url]
[url= https://www.evanscycles.com/specialized-tahoe-mtb-shoes-EV364557 ]Specialized Tahoe £40[/url]
[url= https://www.halfords.com/cycling/cycling-clothing/cycling-shoes/shimano-am7-mountain-bike-spd-shoes-grey-blue ]Shimano AM7 £55[/url]

Similar shoes I think. I've worn older models of the Tahoe and they are fine, albeit I found the soles a little flexy (but I like very stiff soles, you may not). You'll not go wrong with either, buy the pair that fits best, Spec tend to be a little wider in my experience.

What’s the shoes I’ve heard off where the cleats are set further back? They sound ideal for MTB as when I tried clipping in years ago it was like I was pedalling with my tip toes.

Shimano Trail and Enduro Shoes have extra rearward adjustment (without having to drill extra holes!)

https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/technologies/apparel-accessories/footwear/expanded-cleat-adjustment-range.html

Update: I just discovered these and there's a review on this very website...

Giro Chamber II. Cleat box moved back and to the side to mimic flat pedal positioning. I like the idea of that.

clips are great but i ride less confidently in them locally. i prefer them for a rough bike park though oddly where its more smash and less tech.

I rode flats forever then moved to the top of a hill and decided that for commuting i`d be better off with clips.

I started with some second hand clips and flats (borrow some if you can) fell off a few times in a comedy manner and then got really into them. they are way more efficient (for me!) but they are also less fun.

I then started to ride longer distance so bought some sports direct disco slippers which worked spurisingly well with a platform depite the plastic soles. Theyve done me proud to be hoenst - SDW in a day, wales, plently of 40+ milers, at least 2 years commuting. I've since upgraded to spec 2Fo`s and these are just lovely to ride in and dry super quick. not as light as the slippers so i still bust em out for long rides (when i rarely do them now).

when i use clips I miss the ability to dick about on stuff though when i use them (random tree rides, riding walls/skinnies, just stupid challengy bits etc) so now tend to ride flats unless i`m going to Wales or surrey hills where i dont know where the good 'messing about' spots are and tend to just ride.

I like mallets for the ability to move your foot about without unclipping. its the closest feeling to flats i've found. You have to change teh cleats more as you do get to a stage where they unclip unexpectedly (normally when i'm trying to get the bike sideways) but i dont mind the extra few quid on cleats for teh benefits the mallets bring me.

other buddies love hte shimano rigid clip feel so its a personal thing.

still flats in the middle of winter when all the trails are a swamp and the roots arte deadly

some of the worst crashes i`ve had have been in clips and the bike comes with you!

Cleat box moved back and to the side to mimic flat pedal positioning. I like the idea of that.

Iirc some of the 5:10 models do a similar thing.

I’ve swapped between clipless and flat over the years. Rode 1 day flat then 2 days clipless in north wales on the weekend. On rocky stuff I’m starting to find I’m getting one sore ankle in flats - not sure if it’s my placement on the pedals or just the strain of everything. Hats with decent flat pedals and some 5-10 freeriders.

The following 2 days I rode on spds and had none of the same issue - maybe it was due to the stiffer shoe. It’s a low down the range Shimano xc shoe that doesn’t play that well with Bukeoroof Horizon clipless pedals. Can be hard to clip in sometimes because the sole on the shoe is a quite chunky / aggressive.

My plan is to get some shimano am5’s or am7’s when I see a good deal on them. Going to stay with flats on my hardtail for slower / flowier rising and go to spds on my enduro bike where I’m doing bigger rockier stuff and see how that goes.

The cheapie shimano spd pedals are fine - they also do a cheap platform version of it that works well.

I do like Time pedals historically though - there are some platform versions of those I considered when buying the Nukeproofs but I wanted to keep my bike with similarly compatible pedals to a mate.

Cleat box moved back and to the side to mimic flat pedal positioning. I like the idea of that.

There is an argument that you need to decide if you want to ride flats or cleats. They feel different and so you should set them up differently.

Flats need the pedal a touch further back for grip and to keep your foot in place, clips don't need that at all.
Also, don't be too annoyed when you're not as confident in them for the first few weeks, it takes time to get used to them. In time it'll feel as natural as flats to get off the bike and you'll happily ride tech stuff in them. You'll also find that you almost always unclip when you fall.

Also, don’t be too annoyed when you’re not as confident in them for the first few weeks, it takes time to get used to them. In time it’ll feel as natural as flats to get off the bike and you’ll happily ride tech stuff in them.

I wouldn't take this as gospel, ultimately it depends on you as a person. I spent a summer in Whistler clipped in, wrecked a pedal, so went back to flats for the last few weeks & was instantly more confident, comfortable & faster when back on flats.

I've given up trying clips, unless its an outright XC ride on something like the SDW.

Some of the worst crashes i`ve had have been in clips and the bike comes with you!

Never had this personally, but yeah, crashing with bike still attached would be pretty bad!

My only advice is try to set up the cleats so that your clip in is as close to where you foot falls naturally when you put a foot on the pedal, it's worth spending as much time as you can doing this (although I admit it's a pain to have to keep move the cleats about) when you set up the clips for the first time.It makes a huge difference to one's confidence if you can clip in and out without having to look, or move your foot about unnecessarily.

Also swap to multi-release cleats (SH-SM56) if using Shimano. They are marked with an 'M' and allow you to unclip easier as you can twist upwards to release rather than having to keep your foot flat and twist sideways.

I've tried clipless and could never get on with them. Back to flats for me.

Thanks all.

So do I go for:

Shimano AM7 shoes (£55), 530 pedals (£22) and SM-SH56 cleats (£8) for £85
Or
Specialized Tahoe shoes (£40), 530 pedals (£22) and SM-SH56 cleats (£8) for £70

Are the AM7's worth the extra £15 as they look more like a flat pedal shoe?

Also I see the 530's some in a 'wide' variety too - doe this make much difference?
Looks like the axle is 4mm longer to move the pedal outboard slightly.

Some of the worst crashes i`ve had have been in clips and the bike comes with you!

Not really. If it a big off your feet come out whether you want them to or not.

I've been riding clipless forever and I feel safer and more connected (literally) with them.
As others have said, you will fall off but it won't be when you first use them, it will be a day or two later when you think you are used to them and forget! After that you will be fine.

When you first get them set the release to be as loose as it allows then, over time, tighten up to a level that suits you.

I think Shimano SPD pedals are remarkable. They are cheap, bombproof and work faultlessly forever.

Shimano shoes are pretty narrow but may fit anyway.

I wouldn’t bother with multi release cleats tbh (normal ones come with pedals), as if you set the release tension fairly slack to begin with, you will unclip a lot, mostly when you don’t want to.

Part of the benefit of clips is that you can pull up as well as push down. Multi release stops that.

By all means try them, but only if you really can’t get on with the normal ones.

Just bagged a pair of AM7's on ebay BNIB for £30 - bargain!!
Now to sort some pedals.....

My advice is don't overthink it.

Most people I know who have tried it and didn't get on with it were terrified of falling sideways (some frankly hilarious attempts at setting off propped against tree stumps).

I've had Time, Shimano and Crank Bros). My missus hated Shimano, so swapped with my Time and that's all she uses now. I've got a couple of rides old Crank Bros Mallets that I really didn't get along with.

These were the only ones that I've ever had a comedy sideways fall 🙂 I found they inconsistent depending on which way up the cage was!

Just get used to thinking about twisting your foot just before you stop and after a short while it'll just be a reflex. I'm comfortable on flats and SPDs on pretty much anything and it's probably because I just don't really think about it.

Part of the benefit of clips is that you can pull up as well as push down. Multi release stops that.

If you are refering to your pedalling stroke here then I'd be questioning what on earth you are doing. I've used the multi release clips for years and have never once unclipped accidently when pulling up whilst pedalling.

You can pull out of them if you use them to pull the bike up when jumping, bunny hopping etc, I've done that, but realistically if you are doing that your technique is wrong anyway.

Other than that I can't think of one case of me pulling out of them accidently.

And here I am, the only person in the world who actually prefers to climb with flat pedals Vs clipless...

I don't think I've ever had a problem climbing with flats - but then again I've only ever ridden flats.

So shoes ordered and pedals ordered.

Question is do I put them on first - the Hard Tail or Full Sus?

I have a box of multi-release cleats that came with pedals that I didn't use. It might be the lower end ones that come with them.

Re pulling up - I don't think this is the idea, but clipless really help to unweight, and also to move your foot forwards and back instead of just up and down. Pedalling circles, as they call it.

Not really. If it a big off your feet come out whether you want them to or not.

most definately the worst crashes! i think its from commitment. you are feet up committed (dont want to unclip as its a faff on bumpy/slippery terrain to get back in) and then *smack* you are on teh deck writhing in pain. i think i try and ride out more. with flats you can just, literally, jump off and pick a soft spot to land in.

I still like clips though. just different. like goign siglespeed or rigid. change n new challenges stops biking getting boring.

I'd be slightly wary of trainer style shoes. I've got several but:

After a couple of hours I really wish they had a proper stiff sole. The softer soles mean you can feel the pedal more.

The roomier fit means you foot moves around more which makes clipping out less consistent.

Depends on your riding, I've got some Specialized Cadet shoes which are great for touring as despite the long hours on the bike they make up for it by being wearable all evening as trainers. So they'd be fine for say an uplift day, or a big day out with lots of hike-a-bike. But are my least favourite shoes for riding hard in.

I've ridden clipped in since breaking my big toe. It meant I could get back out again quicker because the shoes were a lot stiffer and didn't make my toe hurt. I've since ridden flats a few times but now prefer clipless.

IMO With SPD, once clipped in your foot is always in the right place, unlike setting off on flats and spending the first 20 yards of the trail messing about with foot position.
I also feel that on shimano saint pedals that my foot actually has more rotational movement than with flats where you foot is locked onto the pedal by the pins.

I did have crash at the weekend where I was glad of being clipped in, going through a loamy off camber bend my front wheel washed out suddenly (poor line choice) directly into a tree stump which stopped the bike dead, sent me OTB landing on my back with one hand still on the bars and one foot still clipped in and the bike directly above me. All of which meant the bike didn't then finish it's descent on my face.

I just bought myself some Time ATAC XC4, just out of curiosity. I see a lot of love for the Time stuff on here - Time isn’t as well publicised, in comparison to Shimano/Crank Bros etc?? Was never on my radar.

I’m only on the MTB for about 1 year, I have a hardtail, and “transitioned” to flats successfully – well I still didn’t make time to learn bunny hops yet, but jumping etc is fine. Flats did help me tons with confidence on technical stuff, and slow stuff is a lot nicer on flats. But I’d like to see if I can do it clipped in now. Flat pedals over rooty and rocky fast stuff on a hardtail isn’t great.

I’m a roadie really, and do love to be clipped in. So gonna mix it up and ride clipped for a while. It’s good to use both probably

A good point made above about being clipped in means your feet are in the position you want them in straight away (as long as you clip in right and don’t miss engaging).

With flats I do find sometimes I set off down a trail and then have to try and adjust foot position which is hard with decent flats and 5-10s as there’s so much grip.

Just ordered myself some am7’s as my xc shimano shoes don’t play nicely with Nukeproof Horizon clipless pedals. Still think steep tech rides will be done with flats and spds will be kept for uplift flat out rocky days. Even down Snowdon on the weekend I was glad I was clipped in.

Quite often I set off down a steep descent with a foot in wrong position in flats, and yeah the 510s don't want to move! But it kind of doesn't matter too much as a big pedal area, but you're not settled in until you've moved it about

id suggest borrowing somebody else's shoes and pedals for a bit if your only clipless curious, rather than investing in an expensive setup.

then when you realise clips are shite you go running back to flats it wont have cost owt.

I've got shoes and Shimano pedals already. My shoes are the stiff XC type. In the future might get some of the more laid back/flat styled SPD shoes though.

I don't I'll be running back, I think for me, it's good to use both

Two things:

1) SPD pedals with a platform are pointless fashion. When using any SPD pedal your only point of contact is the cleat. It has to be so or your foot would be in the wrong place. The platform is superfluous if using decent shoes, alluded to in this review https://www.pinkbike.com/news/review-shimano-saint-m820-clipless-pedals.html

2) "XC" or none trainer-like shoes have moulded sections in the sole to match the pedal and direct the cleat into the clip. Any "flat" trainer type shoes don't do this so are actually not as accurate for clipping in, leaving you flailing round on a slippy pedal mechanism if you miss.

See soft rubber sole around cleat here:

not as good at directing cleat as hard rubber channel around cleat here:

I run mine these days with the cleats slid back on MTB for better balance, but on road they are on the ball of my foot for max efficiency.

Always amazes me how much pedals seem to polarize opinions - one or the other are always invariably shite and anyone who uses the "other" is missing the point.... Anyway, for what its' worth, I started on clipless, tried flats (DMR Vaults and 5:10's, so didn't skimp) - hated them, tried for a good while and couldn't get on with them - binned them off in the end after a big off landed me in A&E, then went back to clips and have been happy ever since. Another thumbs up for Shimano pedals with multi-release cleats, easy to adjust tension and no issues with unclipping until you want to. M530's are my go to pedal - like everyone says, they are cheap and pretty indestructible!

Thanks all.
Shoes arrived today and picking the pedals & multi release cleats up later.
Will wait until I'm back of holiday before i try them.

The 'pedal groove' on the bottom of the shoes is pretty impressive!

I alternate between flats and clips, flats are nice in mud as its fast to get a foot down, they do feel fun when pushing in corners too
I prefer clips over fast high ground though as you stop having to try keep the feet on the pedals.
AM7s are great shoes hard to beat, the cleat trench is a great idea - thanks Athertons
Likewise Mallet DH Pedals are ace
Mallets win the pedal war because
1: you can stand on 'em not clipped in (and even when clipped the pins can [depends on adjustment] engage with the shoe for a far nicer platform feel than XC clip shoes will provide, theres a reason the DH guys are predominantly on Mallets).
2: you can clip in backwards with the Crank Bros mechanism, put foot on too far forward wiggle back -
this is FAR safer than pushing the foot forwards into the cleat on tough terrain, a proper bump hit can take you right off the front, very nasty
AM7s make that backward clip in easy, comfy wide shoes too.
win win