[Closed] Chevin Cycle Route

I know plenty of people who go riding on the Chevin. Have to say, I'm a bit suprised you got this off the ground, what with the mass of walkers, dog walkers, horse riders and rock climber, the potential user conflict and all that jazz.
Well done, I'll support it. Most people I know thru SingletrAction ride up there pretty regular, so I'm sure you'd get lots of support from them (if you aren't already).

http://www.gopetition.co.uk/

I will sign it if you set it up - although I live in Bristol I often visit Bramhope and bring my bike with me. I have ridden round the Chevin a few times as part of a loop around Bramhope and find the fireroads really frustrating with dog-walkers, horses etc. It would definitely be an ideal place for a dedicated singletrack route - if they can do it a major urban park in Bristol (the Timberland Trail), surely there is an opportunity to do it in somewhere such as the Chevin.

http://www.gopetition.co.uk/

Or use the No10 downing street one 🙂

Happy to show support, a route on the chevin would be excellent.

Some route names:
Billberyys
Frying Pan
Royalty

Ummmm - bilberries - lovely in a pie. Though used to get dragged up to the Chevin as a kid to pick the little bleeders - took forever to fill a bowl. Great name for a trail though.

I assume the proposed trails with be of the XC singletrack variety rather than the gnarly downhill sort?

i'd certainly support this.

My experience has been that the people objecting may not understand what you are aiming to build. I guess the problem in explaining it would be the best example that they could see / understand is Stainburn but that is so close that the Chevin could be viewed as duplication.

From the age of six I grew up having fantastic adventures on the Chevin, from hiding in the trees, clambering on the rocks to later running the trails and crimping and smearing the classic climbs and boulder problems. If you could develop a low speed, technical circuit like much of Leigh Woods then the youth development and outdoor exercise angle might be listened to more sympathetically.

Probably best if I don't tell my Horse riding pal Jules about this plan, Chevin is right behind her stables. 😉

Though used to get dragged up to the Chevin as a kid to pick the little bleeders

Yep, me too, purple jeans, purple fingers and a bit later purple poo!

I used to live in Otley and picked bilberrys on the Chevin too!

We moved to Scotland in 1984 and don't think I've ever heard of bilberries since. Never saw the psycho red ants you used to get in Otley anywhere else either.

Haven't been back in years 🙁

billberry = yorkshire for blueberry

I'd support this too, so please post a link to the petition once it's available.

billberry = yorkshire for blueberry

never knew that, for some reason I always thought that blueberries were an American thing.

"the cycle routes (fireroad) is perfectly adequate, and there is no demand for any more. Also there are very few people cycling in the Chevin."

The management man / woman has given you an excellent opportunity here with this statement.

never knew that, for some reason I always thought that blueberries were an American thing.

From the ultra reliable Wikipedia

Bilberries (especially Vaccinium myrtillus) are known by a very wide range of local names. As well as "bilberry", these include blaeberry, whortleberry (pronounced /?h?rt?lb?ri/) ground hurts, whinberry, winberry, wineberry, wimberry, myrtle blueberry and fraughan. They were called black-hearts in 19th century south-western England, according to Thomas Hardy's 1878 novel, The Return of the Native.[1] It is known as as Blueberries in Scandinavia and many other places in northern Europe, something which may cause confusion in the cases the name refers to Vaccinium crassifolium.

Get it up and running and I'll back it. Only ridden the bridleways once, too full of people.

Although if you create a proper route will all the other great bits be banned?

Also from wiki

Bilberries are found in very acidic, nutrient-poor soils throughout the temperate and subarctic regions of the world. They are closely related to North American wild and cultivated blueberries and huckleberries in the genus Vaccinium. One characteristic of bilberries is that they produce single or paired berries on the bush instead of clusters, as the blueberry does.

The fruit is smaller than that of the blueberry but with a fuller taste. Bilberries are darker in colour, and usually appear near black with a slight shade of blue.

I used to pick pounds and pounds of bilberries on the Chevin in my youth...

The Chevin (and, I assume, maybe Danefield park?) would be great for a dedicated route of some description - maybe more likely to get approval if there was a blue/red option along its length? Then mark some of the wider paths as green?

I'll happily sign a petition.

Oh, and @rudedog - I assume you don't mean Scotland, the hamlet, just behind Leeds Badford Airport as that's only 4 miles or so from the Chevin???

Rachel

Matt

I think they're being a bit selective in their statements. I was out there Sunday and I saw half a dozen bikers. Tracks throughout the "less legitmate" areas were clear, there's a few jumps in the lower areas too. Many people ride sensitively there to avoid walkers and the high density of people the place can attract at "peak hours" (bikers often avoiding it entirely). A lot of folks use it as a night ride venue for these reasons, they also use the less frequent areas and are particularly careful about straying over to the end beneath the pub (although I know this gets ridden a lot), particularly the stuff from the viewpoint to the bend in the BW that leads down to East Chevin Road.

If you need help putting stuff (evidence) together then shout. If you want company for the meeting (and I can make it) just say.

The North Leeds thread on Bikemagic could be a good place to harvest people from. Many of the guys on the SingletrAction site ride there too.

Weren't there issues many moons ago about illegitimate DH? Not great supporting evidence but clear that people do ride there and there is a history.

Might need a little bit of care in presentation otherwise someone anti might pick up evidence and say the "less legitimate" use ought to be acted upon. However, as it's always been quite sensitively done that would seem unfair.

Tim (SingletrAction)

lol Rachel I never knew such a place existed.

Seems to be a good few people from the Otley area posting in this thread - did anyone else go to Lisker Drive primary school in the early 1980s?

Does anyone have an gpx tracks for trails in the Chevin that they might be able to share?

Used to spend a lot of time in the Chevin 30 years ago when I lived in those parts. Many happy memories of summer evenings spent there. Not all my activities were legal... but I was young and the times were less censorious.

I was on the Chevin only 2 weeks ago - visiting from London where I now live - had a run as I often do when I'm up there. Have noticed people on bikes there and would have thought there was a lot of potential for some nice routes - it is quite steep after all.

Hope you make something happen - I'll be fetching my bike on future visits.

I'd add my name to the list.. I know a fair few hidden trail-gems 😉

And afterall - Gary Fisher himself came all the way from the USA to ride the Chevin 😉

Add me to the list, live in Yeadon and use the Chevin most weeks

I ride through the Chevin a lot (with StuE as it happens) and would be happy to sign up.

Have you spoken to a fella called roger brooke during this planning at all . Can't remember his dept but it was to do with land access and he all for cycling . He rides mtb too. In fact I've ridden with him on the chevin. Ian of cycle Yorkshire should remember him if not I have rogers work number. My mail is in profile if you need it.

I'd happily support a petition or similar.

I call them whinberries, incidentally.

This has been looked at so many times its not going to happen petition or not, Leeds council dosent have the money for it, I have spoken to Leeds council on many occasions and chaired the Cycling development meetings and its not on the agenda, however they would be willing to see a development of Temple Newsam if you would like to get behind that.
I hope as you are looking to develop this for some kind of Chevin cycles benefit you might be able to look beyond your shops own benefit for the greater development of cycling in Leeds

Not really such a good idea - way too busy a country park to make adding in yet more bikes a good idea. Perhaps a bit NIMBYish but there must be other less well used bits of woodland they can develop ?

If the council wanted to do something useful for the mountain bikers of Leeds could i suggest putting some all weather singletrack into Meanwood Valley - you'd create both a recreational and commuting facility in one go there.

You're obviously making comments from a position of knowledge there so I am at somewhat of a disadvantage, however, I don't think money is such a big issue. There's ways to make limited funds go further, certainly if you don't employ consultants and the like. There's already a lot of track in there of varying constructions that, with a little judicious work, could be linked up.

Phased and incremental development through a volunteer group could achieve a huge amount over a reasonable timescale given very limited monetary and technical support. I make these comments having looked at potential routes in the woods with Matt and others and after a number of years experience trailbuilding / designing at Stainburn and other locations (through SingletrAction).

Admittedly, if Leeds want to achieve everything in a few months through a contractor it'll never go ahead. However, I don;t see why that should be the only / preferred route for trail development.

We (SingletrAction) have been talking to Matt and others about it on and off for a couple of years.

I know Knacker / Craig has been talking to Ed @ Crosstrax regarding our support of Temple Newsam. Not heard anything much about it recently. If someone can get in touch direct then SingletrAction will happily support it as best we can.

I hope as you are looking to develop this for some kind of Chevin cycles benefit you might be able to look beyond your shops own benefit for the greater development of cycling in Leeds

I see Chevin getting involved in this as being a positive thing. It's in their backyard, they're as representative of cycling as anyone else, they've talked to us and others for help and advice, it's something where they have self-interest which is more likely to give some sense of ownership and drive to make things happen. I don't see that as a negative (as your quote seems to imply?). Hey though, the internet is an awful medium for communication 😎

Anyhow, always happy to talk to anyone about cycling development opportunities.

Tim, Chairman, SingletrAction
chairman@singletraction.org.uk

The chevin has been discussed many times and its not going to happen, now if the likes of chevin cycles could get behind something like temple newsam then that is a quick win, then lets see what Leeds council might provide, of course its not in chevins back yard and it wont benefit them directly but you have to get one thing done first.
There are middleton woods that the council were keen on and also they are happy to leave the dirt jumps in adel as long as they dont get too big, also they were interested in other developments, but its not Roger you need to speak to its your local councillor and to the asset management team with a proposal, not a petition.
Im negative because I see so much stuff knocked back, but if you want to develop something then work with the council on something they are prepared to do.
we expect a trials park in Rodley in the new year so stuff does get done, but not via petitions its dialogue with the council. particularly your councillor.

Sancho may have valid point that putting weight behind existing plans would be good but I wouldn't be put off a petition for what people in north leeds area actually want - councils are legally obliged to consider petitions and so they get automatically put in agendas, proposals don't ) - agree a petition is no good without a proposal and a bit of legwork with local councillors to get support and obviously any interested parties like Sancho who are already committed and working on similar issues

We have a possible route, tentative costing, local council support etc, so reasonably positive so far. However we have now been told by some management people (I'm not going to start naming names!) that "the cycle routes (fireroad) is perfectly adequate, and there is no demand for any more. Also there are very few people cycling in the Chevin."

The upshot is I now need to go a meeting (December!) and could do with a load of names to show support.

Doesn't this represent the sort of dialogue you're talking about? I think "petitions" got thrown in the mix later by others (haven't re-read to check). Matt seems to have been asked to get some informal user numbers / head count of enthusiasm by the people you are advocating he get in touch with.

As I said, we're (SingletrAction) all up for supporting Temple Newsam (and Chevin plus whatever else comes up). Just give me an email address or contact.

I'm not looking to argue over the internet though, just trying to talk positively about things I think could be worthwhile 😎

Do you have a contact? I can't see an email addy in your profile. You have mine, above, if you'd like to get in touch.

This has come from riding in the Chevin for 20+ years and looking at all the "nice bits" and thinking....

We have now talked to the 1st groups of connected people who have all thought the proposal is worth pushing. We have a selection of groups/organisations and businesses (boo hiss!)who all have said they would help support it.

Of course it would benefit Chevin! Along with any other business or rider or organisation or school or family in this area!

I am now drawing together all the relevant info etc to put a solid proposal. I am going to organise a meeting of the relevent people to make sure the propasal has all the t's crossed and i's dotted. (Hello Tim!)

It might not happen, It won't if nobody has a go! It won't be overnight. It will probabley drive me mad! But if it does happen.....

Maybe petition was the wrong word! I just needed an approximate number of how many cyclist use the Chevin or might, the online petition things seemed to be an easy way to do that.

Matthew

I think i'd honestly be tempted to campaign against this - the Chevin doesn't need any 'purpose built' singletrack - it's riddled with great natural singletrack and long may it stay like it !

Over emphasising the route bikers are expected to take will only be detrimental in the long run.

I'm not against this, but how would you feel if the horse brigade got in there first and turned round to you and said that you cant ride all the cheeky trails in the woods anymore because they are now horse specific trails.
Id like to support you in what you do, but the chevin is very very busy and mountain bikers are a tiny percentage of the users up there.
Parking is limited and as half of the chevin is off limiits anyway I dont want to alienate other users and lose what is already there which is some cracking cheeky trails that are tolerated by people as long as you are polite. I dont see the need to change whats there. IMO

Interesting discussion, I for one would support the development of cycle specific trails around the Chevin – it is part of a regular route that I ride and a great place to ride, unfortunately it is fairly busy and it can be a bit frustrating – there is lots of cheekiness – but then there are quite few anti cycling psycho-paths – I remember the ‘traps’ set on the early DH runs and the injures they caused to the unwary rider.
As for the idea of concentration on Temple Newsome or Middleton – I can see the argument – but certainly on a personal basis I have no inclination to cross the city to ride at these sites – to do so would almost certainly mean a car journey, where as the chevin is a bike ride away – Leeds is a big city and can certainly support a number of cycle centres catering for differing localities

Dave you wont get Downhill runs on the chevin, the DH runs are the main reason people are against mountain bikers, as soon as you mention it the walking groups co-ordinate themselves to fight it, it was the case on ilkley moor it took two years to convince people that we are not all armour clad teenagers doing 40 mph down a public footpath.
Personally I think the other users are ok with bikes and would tolerate some building, however I would not want to be then heckled for not being on the "bike path" when Im on some of the nice cheeky stuff that I ride now.

I'm not against this, but how would you feel if the horse brigade got in there first and turned round to you and said that you cant ride all the cheeky trails in the woods anymore because they are now horse specific trails.

Id support this and i know others that will too

I would not want to be then heckled for not being on the "bike path" when Im on some of the nice cheeky stuff that I ride now

+1 I think that we'd loose far more than we'd possibly gain. However I accept that by not progressing it would mean that very local bike shops would not obtain a nice little test loop that they can use on saturday afternoons when the Chevin is busy and you might encouter a problem with other users of the Chevin. But that is a price I am willing to pay.

I don't deny it's already quite a honey pot, however, having ridden there for a few years myself I think there's room for some improvement to make trails a bit more sustainable [u]in places[/i]. Agree as well that trails should be multi-user.

I’ve notice that over the last couple of years or so there has been a lot of trail sanitising going on around the chevin – on the bridal ways – which has made it some what less challenging/ fun – admittedly some of the horrid muddy bits have been improved - but some nice legal technical singletrack) would be nice

problem with multi user trails is that they end up like golden acre park which is like a motorway now.
my fear there is that they will do the same with Meanwood valley and then we will lose a gem of a trail.
as for the horse trail there is a trail there but I mean what if we were then excluded from all the wooded bits because the horses had a full "trail" built for them.
but I like muddy sections that arent used much in winter, they become sustainable because they arent ridden much in winter.
Its a bone of contention up there, but I expect the council to just sit on it and nothing to happen, good luck to the Chevin guys, I still aim to support other developments in Leeds, and the region.

Agree as well that trails should be multi-user.

Have you seen the multi user trails they are building round Leeds at the moment?

There used to be a great bit of singletrack bridleway [url= http://www.multimap.com/s/ilOmH1pt ]here[/url] which has recently been 'improved' to make it more 'accessible'.

And it's now a 6 foot wide straight motorway through what was a lovely bit of woodland.

No thanks to that.

Not everything has to be purpose built or even built to be sustainable to be enjoyable to ride.

I'll put it another way, I would support trail development for use by all, rather than just for sole use by riders. That doesn't equate to motorways, in my eyes.

It would be unrealistic and (even less) likely to suceed (IMO) if it was badged as exclusive MTB development.

TBH, all I'm thinking of is taking out some of the worse (durability / pass-ability-wise) sections, creating or improving other linking pieces so there's a more distinct loop. However, this is all based on the existing tracks that are there and being ridden already. Just trying to make them fit and work together better. And, of course, making their use by riders legitimate, rather than a some fudge of permission / tolerance / blindsiding.

Not everything has to be purpose built or even built to be sustainable to be enjoyable to ride.

Sure, but if it stands up better and is more "passable" then that's an improvement AFAIC. Tracks, trails, RoW etc all change, evolve and degenerate over time. The track below the Viewpoint / next to the tombstones got surfaced a couple of years ago. IT's not as fun to ride but then it was probably never legit anyway plus it's not just about us riding it. Over time this will revert to something more interesting I'm sure.

Have you seen the multi user trails they are building round Leeds at the moment?

There used to be a great bit of singletrack bridleway here which has recently been 'improved' to make it more 'accessible'.

And it's now a 6 foot wide straight motorway through what was a lovely bit of woodland.

No thanks to that.

Not everything has to be purpose built or even built to be sustainable to be enjoyable to ride.

I would agree, the 'sustainable' bridleway work in the area is a joke, Golden Acre motorway is a travesty. I would be absolutely gutted if they did the same to Meanwood - I am a bit fearful though as they have been doing work around the entrances to the trails of late, which brings me to my next rant.... why can't they put the stoned blocking the entrance back properly? I've seen a few MX bikes (admittedly ridden by kids) on the trail recently which could potentially ruin a few sections. They could have gotten in before if they'd known where to go but it's not helping heving the obvious entry points unblocked. Bloody contractors.....

As for the Chevin then I have mixed feelings about it. I ride there pretty regularly but only as a transition trail e.g. on the way to Stainburn or Ilkley Moor etc. For what I use it for I'm happy with what is there, and if you look hard enough there are plenty of natural bits that although not 'legal' are great to ride. There probably is the audience for a trail which is not as full on as Stainburn, and more family orientated but I don't think that would interest me.

TBH, all I'm thinking of is taking out some of the worse (durability / pass-ability-wise) sections, creating or improving other linking pieces so there's a more distinct loop. However, this is all based on the existing tracks that are there and being ridden already. Just trying to make them fit and work together better. And, of course, making their use by riders legitimate, rather than a some fudge of permission / tolerance / blindsiding.

But that doesn't sound like what Matt from Chevin Cycles is proposing - they want

cycle only singletrack route in Otley Chevin

Actually, there is a horse specific trail already there, right at the top. You can gallop several hundred yards on a purpose built strip without endangering anybody

Ironically i've walked down there this year when the chevin was covered in snow - got some great sunset pictures.

As me and PJ have helped Matt plan a potential route out and it was on the basis of the assumptions I wrote then I can only assume Matt's description is not entirely accurate / representative.

Then again, in his mind he might be thinking of something designed and built with bike riding in mind rather than anything else.

Dunno!

I'm not really bothered who's promoting it as, if it happens, I think it could be great. There's umpteen ways it could go awry or doom could be foretold but sod it, it's just bike tracks and a few more would be nice.