[Closed] Charge Cooker crank/chainstay clearance issue (crank arm hitting chainstay)

[i]2. Out of alignment frame
FIX: ?[/i]

bash the chain stay with a hammer until there's clearance.

(there's probably a technical term for this)

Check the distance from outside edge of the crank at the tip and centre of seat tube - measure on each side and add up to get the q-factor, should be ~165-175mm in total and the cranks should be within a few mm of evenly spaced. There should be a clear 5mm, ideally more, between crank and stay.
If the frame's aligned properly (wheel sits straight, frame's not been bent etc) and the cranks are standard spec yet they hit the stay under pedalling then something's been wrong from the start.

Have a look at the cranks to make sure it hasn't been damaged/bent.

Thanks for the replies, I got home I did some measurements, and took some pictures...

Here is the driveside crank arm
[img] [/img]

Here is non driveside:
[img] [/img]

Pic of the driveside crank to my eye it doesn't appear bent, but eyes are crap and I'm a human.
[img] [/img]

Driveside crank arm measured to be less than 2mm from the chainstay
[img] [/img]

Non driveside crank arm measured to be over 6mm from the chainstay:
[img] [/img]

The compelling bit - Both crank arms are approx 7.2cm from the centre of the seat tube.
[img] [/img]
^ This makes me believe that the cranks are not bent and that the BB is installed and spaced correctly. Sorry Jamesso I realise you asked me to measure from the outside of the cranks but inside was easier due to getting purchase. Total length is 144mm, and Id imagine if I had measured to the outside the cranks as well it'd be around 175-7ish.

Additional information, the back wheel is closer to the non drive stay than the drive side. Sorry didn't get a picture of that, hard to line it up correctly although I could have a go.

So does this lean towards the theory that it is not aligned correctly?

If so, pretty annoying. As I say it's been like this ever since I have had it. Never crashed it or anything, and it means I go through bottom brackets quite quickly rather than live with a small amount of play.

Anyway - any advice of how to proceed to get this corrected is greatly appreciated! Cheers.

It defintely doesn't look right. I would suggest you have two options:

1) Try a different set of cranks on to see if that makes a difference. Some cranks are just really low profile

2) Try Evans - assuming they are local then the worst you're going to lose is time.

A local frame builder could probably align it better for you, might be worth asking if the original shop can't help.

Last resort - it worked for Tom Ritchey. 🙂

[img] [/img]

[url= http://dirtragmag.com/tom-richeys-unique-scott-spark-setup/ ]http://dirtragmag.com/tom-richeys-unique-scott-spark-setup/[/url]

You measured it right, cranks are centred but rear isn't. If you take the tyre of the rim and the tube or valve out you can use the hole to take a line of sight of the rim against the seat tube through the valve hole to see if the rear end is notably off.

Thanks for the replies earlier. I've been quite busy recently so only had a chance to have a play tonight.

If you take the tyre of the rim and the tube or valve out you can use the hole to take a line of sight of the rim against the seat tube through the valve hole to see if the rear end is notably off.

Driveside (3.2cm):
[img] [/img]

None Driveside (2.9cm):
[img] [/img]

Whilst my wheel isn't the most true it could be I think that's quite indicative.

To the eye, it's closer to the non driveside stay:
[img] [/img]

I also went into Evans one lunchtime (although without the bike), and one of the guys said to tape some string to the centre of the headtube, then pull it to the back of the frame (by dropouts) and measure the distance to the seat tube from the string. I did this and it was roughly 3.6cm-ish on both sides. So this doesn't prove anything.

I think I have two options really:
1) Return it to Evans to take a look. It's out of warranty so doubt they will do much.

2) Get a new crankset - was thinking something like SLX would do the job, but most websites like CRC I can't find the Q factor on the specs. Does anyone know how I can find this? Seems like I might be gambling if the next set I order is just as slim.

Might try getting in touch with Charge again, but hopefully they won't just tell me to go to Evans again.

If I take it to frame builder it doesn't sound like a cheap option, would I be better off getting a new inbred or other cheap steal frame 29er?

Any other options I am missing?

Thanks again... ~ J

Take the frame to a bike shop that has a proper frame alignment tool, not the bit of a string and a ruler 😉

Once you know for sure how bad it is, take it to Evans, they should speak to CSG(Charge distro) and you might be offered a crash frame replacement. Perhaps they've seen a few bent Cookers in the past?

If no joy then you can try and bend it towards lh side - it's a steel frame so should be fairly easy if you heat it before using some brute force...

Don't heat it before bending it!

Measure end of crank arms to side of DT too.

I'll have a look later at my Cooker 2, although I'm not sure what it will tell us as I'm running a generic HT2 BB.

Out of interest, I assume there's a reason you're on a GXP ?

SRAM chainline is determined by position on non driveside cup.

[b]kazafaza:[/b] Take the frame to a bike shop that has a proper frame alignment tool, not the bit of a string and a ruler 😉

[b]weeksy:[/b] I'll have a look later at my Cooker 2, although I'm not sure what it will tell us as I'm running a generic HT2 BB.

Out of interest, I assume there's a reason you're on a GXP ?

Thanks. I have a GXP crankset because it came with the bike. I don't have any particular devotion to it and now I have a hope BB I could swap it for a SLX easily and would no longer need the gxp inserts. Only annoyance is cost of replacing what I consider to be a working crankset (especially if it exhibits the same issue).

For what it's worth I have had this problem whilst running two GXP Bottom brackets (including the one that came with the bike, and the one I fitted after it)... As the play increases so does the amount of crank arm knocking on the chainstay. So I thought I'd put a hope one in, there's literally no play now but I have noticed the crank still knocks on the chainstay when under more load (also I'm probably more aware of this happening now I have become accustomed to recongising the knock). As theres only like 2mm of clearance, it doesn't take much power and flex to make it clip.

[b]Brant:[/b] Measure end of crank arms to side of DT too.

I'll pop into Evans today and tell them I can bring it in next week if they can take a look at it.

DT = Down Tube

[b]Brant:[/b] Measure end of crank arms to side of DT too.

This is exactly the same on both sides. Can any conclusions be drawn from this?

Still not had a chance to take it to Evans in Leeds. Fingers crossed this week.

Sounds like the whole chain stay assembly is displaced to one side - which is why the chainstay measurements to each crank don't match, but the down tube measurements do match. If they are both skewed, then I'd expect to see the behaviour that you describe.

P.S. Is it just me, or is your drive side crank on the opposite side to normal?

The bike is upside down in the photos 🙂

You can see the bars in the third photo

Phew - thought that I may have overdone the beer tonight 😉

I took it into Evans today. They have agreed that it is perculiar... they have ran some measurements and tried swapping the crankset over too, and even with brand new one the issue is actually worse! They are going to get in touch with Charge and try and get it sorted under the 5 year frame warranty. Fingers crossed.

If anyone else has a charge cooker (steel ideally) - could you measure the gap/distance from the crank arms to the chainstays please? (In the way that I have earlier). I'm wondering if mine is an anomaly - most other bikes I see are around 2cm gap (not 2mm!)

Cheers!

Bit of a summarised update, for cataloguing purposes and in case anyone else has issues:

* Evans sent it back to Cycling Sporting Group (aka CSG) who provide the warranty. They wrote a note saying it works when you use shimano cranks, and that the existing cranks are not bent, and that the frame is aligned correctly.

* Evans provided me with new Shimano Deore crankset (for free), can't complain too much, had the X5 on and the deore weighs less. The new cranks do not hit the chain stay and look to have about 5mm on the drive side.

So I am inclined to think the following:
* SRAM mtb cranks (generalising perhapps) have a lower Q factor than shimano cranks. (167.5-to-170.9mm compared to Shimano's 174mm)

* The 2012 Charge Cooker's straight and wide chainstays don't accomodate all cranksets (especially SRAM ones), the have corrected this frame design issue in their 2013 and all subsequent cooker models. (Mine is 2012 and the chainstays are not bent, or formed to allow greater crankset clearance - I think 2012 is the year they first made the cooker)

Here are some pics of the later models:
[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]

As such I feelthe warranty company is mitigating problems with their frame by providing a different crankset. If I start getting issues with the Shimano crankset then I'll be pushing for a new frame, until then I'm pretty happy that I can get out riding again. Cheers!

p.s. Credit to Evans, they were very useful and friendly throughout. Tom, in the Leeds workshop especially.