I say don't cut corners, waxing has to be done right, I've been doing it years with excellent results - this is all very well explained on Zerofrisctioncycling, he has dome hundreds of hours of scientific testing. He's the one to trust when it comes to advice.
If any lube other than wax has been used (or with a new chain) you'd be crazy not to do the initial clean right, because the wax has to bond to the metal, it can't do that with any residue in there which means it won't work right, if you don't clean right and it doesn’t bond then you may aswell not bother with immersive wax IMO
clean the chain and quick link like this:
loop the chain onto a swisher, make one like this out of a coat hanger
https://moltenspeedwax.com/pages/making-a-swisher-tool
- no need for a basket
3 or more baths (5 for a new SRAM chain) each of about 200ml white spirit/turps (first bath - soak overnight then agitate well) tip out the dirty solvent for recycling, clean the container, repeat, agitate each time 'til the solvent is coming out totally clean (last bath can be saved for use as first bath next chain you clean).
next
dry the chain off (hot air gun/hairdryer)
In a new or cleaned container - agitate the chain in 2 baths of meths to get rid of the white spirit residue (or it stops the wax bonding). 2nd bath can be first bath next chain.
dry chain off properly then into the melted wax in the slow cooker (or put it on the surface & let it melt in)
No need to wax quick link, chain goes into hot wax (slow cooker on low, lid off it takes about an hour to come to temp), leave ( lid off to prevent overheating, wax doesn’t like temps above 93C ) Leave for about 20 mins for chain to come to wax temp, then swish about for 5 min, hang above the slow cooker to drip off.
Chain will be stiff once cooled - free it up by pulling around the chain around a dowel til its pretty loose, the rest of the break in is 10 mins pedalling.
You're on a budget, right, so the vital thing is to do this right and save long term, even a GX cassette is £150+ so well worth preserving.
Wet ride? chain off, r turn on slow cooker, rince chain in a few baths of boiling water (in an open container) dry and into the wax. It's real easy once you get going.
'Don't bother with all that' some say - sorry but if so I feel you may as well not bother with wax at all.
Tbh I’ve got a new chain (now soaking in white spirit) and new cassette so might as well go new jockey wheels since they’re only about £20 anyway.
Didn’t really want the faff of removing chainrings but I can see it makes sense…
Or, as ZFC say, you can use some Ceramic Speed UFO Clean and it will take 5 mins to remove the factory grease - the UFO Clean product is expensive though and possibly not in the spirit (geddit!) of the thread title but it is a lot quicker - esp with a SRAM chain.
Since we're all here, what's the best chain checker, is it that Park CC-4? I understand most checkers don't really measure the relevant wear which is between the front face of two consecutive rollers (i.e. the surfaces that interact with the cassette).
I'm 'impatiently' trying to wear out my current Ultegra chain which has several years worth of Squirt holding it together so I can justify replacing with a pre-cleaned YBN from InASpin, it seems more ecologically sound to get them to do it than for me to buy litres of various solvents etc.
Same goes for the gravel bike but I have a bottle of Fenwick's Stealth left to use up and only 500km on the chain so that's probably one for next year at this rate.
Depends, a DFF will heat up to close to 200C
Not if you turn the knob on the front.
I say don’t cut corners, waxing has to be done right
I disagree. All I do is remove chain and dunk, and I get great results. Waffling on about the perfect long winded process is unhelpful as it puts people off, and they won't get the benefits.
I'm sure going to obsessive lengths gives you a few extra watts, but that's not why I do it. I want to have a chain that actually resists mud and grit, and I want the minimum possible faff at the same time. Chain wax (well, Putoline at least) does that very well.
you’d be crazy not to do the initial clean right, because the wax has to bond to the metal, it can’t do that with any residue in there which means it won’t work right, if you don’t clean right and it doesn’t bond then you may aswell not bother with immersive wax IMO
No, in my experience it still works pretty well. The hot wax presumably dissolves the grease on the chain.
3 or more baths (5 for a new SRAM chain)
In my view this is crazy. There's not much grease that can survive a single dunking in white spirit, what the heck do you think it comes coated in that needs five de-greasing sessions? Especially when white spirit is oily anyway.
In my view this is crazy. There’s not much grease that can survive a single dunking in white spirit, what the heck do you think it comes coated in that needs five de-greasing sessions? Especially when white spirit is oily anyway.
I guess the rationale is that 1. The factory grease is hard to shift 2. You're aiming to remove the grease inside the rollers, not just on the outside 3. After using white spirit you rinse in IPA a couple of times to remove the residue from the white spirit.
I'm not looking for an endless argument btw, I'm just saying that's the rationale behind the white spirit/IPA chain cleaning regimen. Take it or leave it. If your method works for you, then that's great too.
Similarly folk have explained why it's arguably better for the wax to use a slow cooker than a deep fat fryer, but if it works for you then whoopy doo 🙂
Re chain checking - I don't bother with measuring devices, I just eyeball the cassette/chain interface. If you push on a pedal (with your hand is sufficient) whilst holding the wheel, you will see on a new chain that all the teeth on which the chain sits are in contact with their respective chain roller. As the chain wears, this number decreases. When you can only see five or so rollers/links actually in contact with teeth, then it's time for a new chain. You can use a number greater or less than five if you want, depending on your attitude to risk 🙂
I’m not looking for an endless argument btw, I’m just saying that’s the rationale behind the white spirit/IPA chain cleaning regimen. Take it or leave it. If your method works for you, then that’s great too.
Well, if the simple approach works, then logically there isn't a rationale for the extended faff, is there? 🙂
I would be interested to see if different preparation processes give better results, but in practice this is very hard to determine. I get quite different periods between waxings (not least because there's no universal definition of 'needs rewaxing', it's all subjective) even though I do the same thing each time usually. The waxing interval is long enough that the changing of weather patterns and/or seasons interferes with data which compounds the issue.
Well, if the simple approach works, then logically there isn’t a rationale for the extended faff, is there? 🙂
Down 🙂
I would be interested to see if different preparation processes give better results, but in practice this is very hard to determine.
The Zero Friction Cycling guys have compared all sorts of waxes, preparation techniques, chains, lubes etc etc in an exhaustive way using a lab-based test rig. Obviously their results won't be as valid as yours in the sense of your set-up in real life use and I don't think they've tried Putoline, which has the TJ seal of godliness, but that's what they do.
Sorry I’ve just jumped in at the end of the thread. But what’s wrong with heating up a load of tea lights in a saucepan, and putting in your chain? Costs next to nowt and mine’s been good for ages.
I think paraffin wax as used in tea lights is quite hard and may well flake off. But I haven't tried it. Waxes designed for the purpose are a bit softer and stickier.
Yea, I'm with molgrips on this one, there's no real world need to be THAT level of clean about it. Putoline at least, seems to just work well with minimal faff and lasts several (generally) wet rides without needing any maintenance. Last Friday I did one ride that had the bike over the chainring in fords, then rode 100km off-road (plus another 30 on road) on Sunday. The chain still looks and sounds perfect.
Maybe with 10x the faff you can save one or two watts, but really what's the point?
Ceramic Speed UFO Clean
35 quid a throw, and thats just to clean it, then comes the lube, and no doubt equally expensive.
Dump the entire chain in a plastic coke bottle with inexpensive meths in it. Give it a damn good shaking and cleanings done.
All these extreme methods, its like people think they're entering the Olympics or the Tour De France 😕
I think soil geology and chemistry has a big impact on longevity. ZFC's test protocol says:
500ml of water is sprayed onto chain from small pressure sprayer, as well as the
5grams of sandy loam.
I think that may well not cover all the situations we are likely to find when out on our MTBs.
35 quid a throw, and thats just to clean it,
I think if you shop around you can get it for £25 but yeah expensive, they do say a litre will do the factory grease on 50 chains minimum I seem to recall.
I think that may well not cover all the situations we are likely to find when out on our MTBs.
Which is pretty much what I said. Tbf they seem more focussed on road/gravel than mountain biking.
For sure an hour each time you wax the chain (which is very often using MSW I am discovering) is going to be a right faff in the winter when it's bastard cold in my shed. I'm thinking that running Putoline in the winter is going to be my best bet or put the MSW in the DFF. I mean if you have to do it again virtually every ride anyway what does it matter if you damage the wax a bit...🤷♂️
@daz does yours need doing as often as the MSW?
Also I think an ebike is more suited to Putoline. There's no mention of ebike testing on the ZFC website as far as I can see.. It's just the gunk with Putoline that I don't like - with MSW my drivetrain is spotless. I went on a 60km dusty gravel ride today and it all just rinsed off (probably means I need to rewax it now though....🙄🤣)
I went on a 60km dusty gravel ride today and it all just rinsed off (probably means I need to rewax it now though
Surely MSW doesn't just rinse off with a hose?
Surely MSW doesn’t just rinse off with a hose?
ZFC say it needs redoing every time it gets wet..... which I am assuming means washing also but they don't specify.... I've no intention of redoing it after every rinse.
I rinse my bike after every ride and I am finding that shifting gets noisier after about 200km. This is with the motor on though. It's quieter with the motor switched off which is why I am taking everything ZFC say with a pinch of salt at the moment and just seeing what works in the real world. My guess is that the noisier shifting is just because the wax has come off the outer plates and it's still working fine inside the rollers but surely if it's noisier it's wearing things out more....
Oceanskipper. I think ZFC mean if it gets wet whilst riding as that carries in contaminants.
I agree with you all that both the multi bath initial clean so the wax can properly Bond onto the chain and the boiling water wash / re wax after a wet ride seem tedious but as ZFC have done extensive wear testing to come up with those methods I’m happy to follow them.
I’m hoping my 2 chains last ages meaning that multi bath initial clean isn’t too onerous as it’s once in a blue moon.
I spent much more time cleaning with solvents in various chain scrubber devices when using Finish Line Century / Wet lube over the 35 years ago I’ve been mountainbiking. And I have a pile of worn cassettes (why do I keep them!!). Since I last moved home 25 years ago I’d amassed well over 40 chains awaiting a recycling solution. All gone now.
2 years in my 11s waxed chains show zero wear (measured when clean before rewaxing, Pedros guage).
A sram cassette is well expensive, even GX - so a bit of tedious cleaning to multiply its life is worth it to me. Got more time than cash these days.
why go thru all that faff? Putoline does not need it 🙂
I have done about 200 dry km on the road bike chain that I waxed straight after having de-greased in white spirit. I can report that it does not seem to be lasting as well as when it was directly dunked without de-greasing. I did not clean the chain after de-greasing in white spirit.
However, I think it needed de-greasing because it was a bit gritty - a very rare occurrence. So I think I'm going to recommend no de-greasing unless it's particularly gritty in which case de-grease then wash.
I also rode my Trek after it had been in storage for months because it needed the fork bushings replaced. Somehow, its chain was perfectly clean and dry on the outside but well lubed on the inside, and I've no idea how many miles it had done since its last lube or what I did to make it so effective.
Re cassettes - I went to 11sp probably 3-4 years ago on two MTBs with second hand cassettes, and I am still using the same ones now. I've probably changed chains maybe once on each bike. I think that using wax generally is what dramatically reduces wear - I'm not sure the technique or brand of wax matters all that much.
why go thru all that faff? Putoline does not need it
Indeed. BUT - the MSW means the whole drivetrain is pretty spotless in this dry weather and the shifting with the motor off is sublime (that said I have not tried Putoline on my new bike, I therefore can't compare to my MTB which was Putoline and motor only). I suspect that by the time the winter comes though I'll be switching back to the Putoline, well, maybe... I do like a clean drivetrain...😜 @iainc has the same bike as me, I wonder what he puts on his chain...
Putoline definately isn't spotless but it does seem to last rather well. I'm liking it a lot so far. It does seem to build up gunk on the jockey wheels but that scrapes off easily enough
@molgrips Do you think with the chain that you didn't degrease that possibly you have just worn the wax away from the outer plates and the layer of grease underneath has taken over giving the impression that it is lasting longer? My completely degreased chain deffo likes another dunk in the wax after about 200km of MSW use - Putoline would do 3 times this distance.
Er, I dunno. I have never degreased chains until this one time on the road bike, where it seems to have lasted less time. The super clean one on the Trek - no idea why that one is the way it is. Perhaps I did it during last summer and it's only seen dry conditions.
Re the gunk on jockey wheels - that's a one time thing after each waxing. So you wax, a small amount excess comes out and sticks to the jockey wheels, chainring and outer plates. Then you wipe or scrap that off and if it's a reasonable summer, you can ride it all summer long nice and clean.
Am almost out of Squirt so it's decision time. I don't want to replace chain as I would rather run whole (fairly ancient) drivetrain into the ground before changing cassette etc. for different ratios. I don't really want to keep running Squirt as compared with immersion wax it's a messy job applying and the overspill just accumulates as black gunk between the cogs.
However I also don't really want to be mucking about with vats of meths and white spirit, but I do want the best adherence of wax if I go Moltenspeedwax/Dazwax etc. Not for Watts but just durability etc.
If the chain has only had Squirt applied since washing off the stock coating 2 or 3 years ago, could I get away with a quick spin through a chain bath with a decent degreaser? Am hoping this would just leave a tiny bit of residual Squirt, which is wax anyway...
On the other hand, considering the colour of the Squirt gunk around the cassette and jockey wheels, I'm wondering just how much black muck there might be inside the rollers...
If it was me.
I'd go with a rapid degrease which will get the vast majority of it off, and then just wax it and get on with life. Even if that doesn't optimise the adherence and so reduces your service intervals, honestly the service itself is dead easy.
When i get back from a ride where the chain's starting to squeak / a wet ride where i think it's worth it - I come in, get the slo-cooker of GLFWAX off the shelf, and turn it on. Then I put the kettle on. Then while the kettle's boiling, I wipe any excess moisture / dust off the chain by backpedalling it on the bike through a rag i keep for the purpose.
Then I put the hot water onto the teabag. Then I remove the chain, and put it on top of the solid lump in the slowly warming up slo-cooker. Then i finish making the tea and go and have a bath, which depending how I feel / who else is demanding the bathroom can take some time.
When i then remember I come back to the slo-cooker and swish the chain around using a bent spoke I have fashioned into an s-shape for the purpose. Remove from the wax, hang over a nail on a rafter in the garage, and turn slo-cooker off. I then wipe the excess wax off with a workshop paper towel, and usually burn my fingers in the process.
After it's cooled and solidified I then flex and run the chain over a bit of 40mm waster pipe that doubles as a crown race setter, and then back on the bike. Total active time doing this rather than making tea / having bath, I reckon is under 5 mins. Probably longer to explain it than actually doing it IRL.
So what if it's not absolutely optimal - it's a 5 minute job with lots of wait time in between when you can do something else. And i suspect even if it is a bit Squirt contaminated the first time, second time that gets a bit less, third time less still....and so on.
13thfloor
If you want I'll do a putoline wax for you if you ever come into Edinburgh any more
If you want I’ll do a putoline wax for you if you ever come into Edinburgh any more
Thanks TJ, I'm fully equipped with Putoline, 4 x bikes with Putolined chains! I just don't want it on my shiny white road bike/summer gravel bike, I've never solved the issue of gunk build up and sticky black blobs. Not compatible with white shoes and fancy roadie socks 😂
What JonV said, I'd probably just swish it in a jar of white spirit, and wang it straight in the putoline.
I rinse my bike after every ride and I am finding that shifting gets noisier after about 200km. This is with the motor on though. It’s quieter with the motor switched off which is why I am taking everything ZFC say with a pinch of salt at the moment and just seeing what works in the real world. My guess is that the noisier shifting is just because the wax has come off the outer plates and it’s still working fine inside the rollers but surely if it’s noisier it’s wearing things out more….
That's my experience, at about 200km there's some noise/rattling, but it doesn't squeak for quite a bit longer. My gravel bike must currently be at 250-300km mark, including several river crossings and has just reached the rattly point.
Normally I'll probably throw a chain like that it in the fryer sometime around now because another one will have reached the squeaky stage.
Past a point the absolute distance doesn't matter, it can last 500km, but that probably closer to saying "in summer I manage to ride 500 km between getting caught in a torrential storm".
I agree with you all that both the multi bath initial clean so the wax can properly Bond onto the chain and the boiling water wash / re wax after a wet ride seem tedious but as ZFC have done extensive wear testing to come up with those methods I’m happy to follow them.
I’m hoping my 2 chains last ages meaning that multi bath initial clean isn’t too onerous as it’s once in a blue moon.
I'd maybe agree with the philosophy on a summer-only road bike. But realistically Mountain/cross/gravel bikes are that clean for no time at all. It's probably ridden through a puddle before even leaving the car park most days. It just wouldn't be possible to say the chain was that spotless for any significant time.
If it was me.
I’d go with a rapid degrease which will get the vast majority of it off, and then just wax it and get on with life. Even if that doesn’t optimise the adherence and so reduces your service intervals, honestly the service itself is dead easy.
<blah>
So what if it’s not absolutely optimal – it’s a 5 minute job with lots of wait time in between when you can do something else. And i suspect even if it is a bit Squirt contaminated the first time, second time that gets a bit less, third time less still….and so on.
Pretty much my routine as well.
Note that ZFC do highlight some chains as not working particularly well with wax. Think it was KMC and AXS offhand as they have a non-wash-off-able factory coating which the wax doesn't adhere to as well. If that's what you have and you are finding the MSW/GLFwax/etc types just aren't lasting as well as the greasier Putoline type that could potentially be why. I think...
However I also don’t really want to be mucking about with vats of meths and white spirit, but I do want the best adherence of wax if I go Moltenspeedwax/Dazwax etc. Not for Watts but just durability etc.
You really don't have to do all that, at least not with Putoline. My 'routine' is get bike out, ride, hose down if muddy, put bike away. Every so often, I remove the chain and put it in the deep fat fryer. That period is about every 4 rides or so in wet soggy winter, but it goes all summer without a rewax usually.
De-grease new chains though. The de-greaser in a machine sounds good. Also de-grease and thoroughly clean used chains though. When using normal lube, grit gets right into the chain so it needs to be got out before waxing I'd say.
I’ve just waxed a KMC chain, seems to have gone alright and very well adhered…it’s done just shy of 200km and not got any noisier yet, all bone dry road miles.
Will be getting another dip after tomorrow night which should put it at the 250 mark.
Since this seems to be the current chain waxing thread...
I took the chain off my new bike before riding it and I've trying to thoroughly de-grease it before waxing, to see what difference it makes. I apologise to whoever I mocked for extreme de-greasing ritual as the factory grease is really quite difficult to shift!
Why? Its really good lube
Just to see if it helps - as above. It might result in better adherence of Putoline to the metal of the chain.
Unless you mean why not simply ride it? Because it's sticky as hell and in dusty conditions it's going to get really caked up. I've always ridden bikes with it on in the past, and whilst it's better than a wet lube it's not that great, only lasts a ride or two and is sticky as above.
One day after I'd gone through all the faff of cleaning & waxing 3 new chains for rotating on my main bike, Silca released their new Chain Stripper, which promises to make the one-time cleaning process a hell of a lot easier.
I've ordered the chain stripper/lube combo pack, as I have another 3 chains I need to do and the Silca SS drip lube will work nicely for topping up in between hot waxing, and also seems like the better option for my turbo bike (less wax flaking off onto the floor).
Interestingly, I weighed the crock pot of Silca Hot Wax before and after doing the chains, and each chain consumed only 5 grams of wax on average, so 500g will last for ages. I chose Silca wax as it did especially well in the wet/muddy tests at Zero Friction Cycling (ZFC), so should work well as an all-year-round lube.
Based on the ZFC results I don't expect to buy any chains, cassettes or chainrings for the next several years - I'll report back here if I see any significant wear. Winter especially will be interesting to observe...
Well that went well, 500km before the drivetrain started getting squeaky/noisy. I didn't bother cleaning and rewaxing until 600km. ( the chain and cassette were already past the 0.75% wear point before I started, its now past 1%).
To clean and rewax,I ran the chain through 3 or 4 cycles through the ultrasonic cleaner with boiling water until the water was pretty clear, then back in the pan with the melted tealight wax I used last time on a low heat on the hob. Done another 140km already and still running nicely.
My process has ended up that i dunk it in degreaser overnight, fish it out, blast it with brake cleaner or acetone, what ever is to hand, blast it with the compressor then chuck it in the wax for 20 minutes. Seems to last several hundred km doing that. Then it just needs a quick wipe/rinse before it goes back in the wax next time.
Washing the bike with hot water seems to rejuvenate the chain as well.
I bought one of the IKEA single induction hobs when they were on sale last year (45 quid), so i pop that outside and do it there with an old pan.
<p style="text-align: left;">the factory grease is really quite difficult to shift!</p>
tjagainFull Member
Why? Its really good lube
No it's not. Have a look at Zero Friction Cycling. He's actually tested it rather than offered a blind opinion or anecdotal evidence.
His informed option based on test results is that factory chain lube is the work of the devil.
I always assumed the factory 'lube' was just to protect against rust when in storage/transit.
I think I've sorted out the gunk problem (not that it was a big one). I fried it up, fitted, rode around a bit then wiped. Then I went for a ride and wiped again, and it's been spotless and silent. So basically, wipe after use until it no longer needs it which was only two times for me. I probably wouldn't bother in shitty winter but since it's the beginning of summer it should last ages and be nice and clean. I also picked the bits off the chainring and jockey wheel. Silicone spray on the wiping rag I think is optional, but it may help.
Gilfwax purchased and shall order one of those Argos wax pots today, time to commit!
I've got about two applications of Squirt left in a bottle, it's been good to me but I won't miss having to hoik lumps of grey gunk out from between the sprockets and having to wash my cassette in white spirit every so often to get rid of the residue
I always assumed the factory ‘lube’ was just to protect against rust when in storage/transit.
Sort of. It serves that purpose and also makes sure that the 99% of users who never lube or clean the chain, other than pouring used engine on it after 4 years have a chain that is slightly "lubed".
It's actually pretty poor lube, but durable and tenacious. That's why so much stuff sticks to it.
Even 30 years ago when it probably WAS one of the best lube for chains, we still used to wipe chains down with WD40 and an oily rag to get the worst of it off when we fitted them. Things have moved on.
Only people from manufacturers i've heard telling people to leave it on, really aren't qualified to say that.
Silca chain stripper arrived a few days ago - I got the "2 in 1" starter pack, and the small 4oz/118ml bottle of stripper was just enough to clean 3 chains one after the other before waxing. Much easier, quicker, cleaner and less smelly than using white spirit and meths (which I did last week for another 3 chains). Of course it depends how much you value your time and lack of hassle, but for me it was worth it.
If you want to go into it very deep, a heated ultrasonic cleaner does this even better, but that’s being very OCD.
I've inherited a wee ultrasonic cleaner but not sure how to use it, can't fill it with molten wax obviously.
Would you just take the wee pot out of the slow cooker and sit in in the ultrasonic cleaner 'tray' and hope the vibrations travel through into the wax? Or could you take the chain out and just lie it in the ultrasonic cleaner for 30 seconds or so to let the agitation move the molten wax that's still in between the links?
@13thfloormonk its glfwax not gilfwax, I googled gilfwax and need to clean my eyeballs more than I need to clean my chain.
I poured my 'old' putoline in to the fryer to clear a few jars off my shelf, and immediately realized why I'd swapped it, it's now the consistency of lard/dripping. I'm still sure 'new' putoline is softer than it was a decade ago, but this mess is really soft. Either it's thermally degraded (still not convinced it's a significant issue) or it's accumulated white spirit from chain cleaning over time.
Conclusion - don't clean your chain in solvent then immediately throw it in the wax.
On the upside, a few hundred k on the road bike and it's still quiet so it doesn't seem to do any harm. It's just soft.
I’ve inherited a wee ultrasonic cleaner but not sure how to use it, can’t fill it with molten wax obviously.
Would you just take the wee pot out of the slow cooker and sit in in the ultrasonic cleaner ‘tray’ and hope the vibrations travel through into the wax? Or could you take the chain out and just lie it in the ultrasonic cleaner for 30 seconds or so to let the agitation move the molten wax that’s still in between the links?
Fill the bath with water.
Put the chain in a glass jar of solvent with the lid on loosely, put the jar in the water bath.
I googled gilfwax
Any excuse eh? 😉
Put the chain in a glass jar of solvent with the lid on loosely, put the jar in the water bath
The suggestion was to use the ultrasonic cleaner as a form of agitation during waxing no? To improve penetration?
I know I'm overthinking it but since I have the USC anyway I just wondered how best to use it.
Argh, my Cookworks sliw cooker only has Low or High settings, GLF wax suggest medium 😂
Anyone else got one of the cheap Argos slow cookers, what setting do you use? I'll leave it on Low just to see how long the initial melt takes...
The suggestion was to use the ultrasonic cleaner as a form of agitation during waxing no? To improve penetration?
I know I’m overthinking it but since I have the USC anyway I just wondered how best to use it.
Just use a DFF with a basket and shake that by the handle to get some agitation?
I'm not totally sure ultrasonics would actually improve penetration of the wax into the rollers...
Some very useful succinct interpretation here f lube testing data
Also Silca have an amazing one shot cleaner to prepare new chains for wax. Should please all the militia bath solvent doubters out there.
I just cleaned a new SRAM chain with a single bath of UFO clean. Took 15 mins. Dried with hairdryer and waxed with MSW. Took 1hr 30 all told.
Some very useful succinct interpretation here f lube testing data
That's a super helpful if long video.
OK so first impressions of the GLF wax are a very easy application and feels good on the road (perhaps not as immediately smooth feeling as a fresh Putoline application, but otherwise no complaints). Also I still haven't gotten over the novelty of a genuinely clean drivetrain to touch, and the bike has attracted comments from bystanders for how clean the drivetrain looks 😁
Only thing I've noticed is that the drivetrain sounds a bit noisier. Not really in a bad way as such (i.e. not squeaky or dry sounding) but just more 'meshing' noise than I'm used to, like the barrel adjuster is half a turn out or something.
I'm still not actually sure I've re-installed the jockey wheels properly after taking them out to clean off all the accumulated gunk from prior Squirt applications, so will try that.
Is a dry wax likely to be a bit noiser than something stickier or thicker?
Ta
I only have Putoline experience. When first applied mine is eerily silent. After the first ride it settles down to be a little noisier but still quieter than even a freshly oiled chain. Over time it gets gradually noisier, especially doing wet rides, and then when it starts to be noticeable I re-do it. It's never as bad as a wet-lubed chain after its first puddle though.
I just do not get all the zero friction faffage when we have an off the shelf solution that is better
@13thfloormonk, I had this recently. It seems that I have thick-thin jockey wheels that were not in synch with the reinstalled chain.
Thick-thin jockey wheels? Who knew that was a thing eh? I'm sure that it helps...
I think it’s noisier than Putoline, I’m just testing some GLF wax after running some Molten Speed Wax for a few weeks. The MSW is pretty rubbish in the wet so I’m interested to see if the GLF wax is any better. It’s the spotless drivetrain that is making me persevere instead of just switching back to the ole Puto’…..
I don’t think there’s much difference in sound between the two waxes but I have got an XG 12 speed cassette and even with the SRAM micro adjust it’s impossible to dial out all the noise. In fact some of the gears are noticeably noisier than others - 6 and 8 in particular (this is the same on two sets of wheels). I can tell when I’m in 6th just by the sound. The noise in 8 can be virtually eliminated but not entirely as doing that just introduces noise elsewhere. I suspect it will be less obvious with Putoline. Oddly the cheaper PG cassette was much quieter and uniformly so across all gears. I actually think the XG cassette is a bit shite.
Thick-thin jockey wheels? Who knew that was a thing eh? I’m sure that it helps…
Thanks, not quite so bad here, merely old style Ultegra jockey wheels which apparently have a rotating direction but no arrows printed on them so it's just guesswork! And of course since I've not made a note of which way round they've been when I've fitted (or re-fitted them) I might just be replicating the same mistake over and over.
I'll be mister methodical this time and if the noise persists perhaps replace them, they look fine but ultimately are over 7000km old.
I just do not get all the zero friction faffage when we have an off the shelf solution that is better
Put it down to experience/mechanical ability or anything else you like, but as a part-time (i.e. winter time) devotee to the church of Putoline, I'd still rather go through a bit of additional faff for a clean drivetrain, something I've never achieved with Putoline. Especially so on the summer bike.
Thick-thin jockey wheels? Who knew that was a thing eh? I’m sure that it helps
My SRAM drivetrain has a thick/thin lower jockey wheel but it’s impossible to install the chain the wrong way on it as the thicker teeth won’t fit in the narrow links.
I ve gifwaxed 3 times now over a month or so, mainly due to wet commute. I reckon the goodness builds up, or maybe that's just me. I ve deffo made it easy for myself, q boil of chain in water, dunk it on solid wax, croc pot on, clean bike, eat, garden, chain ready.
Really quiet and smooth drive train, v happy. I even acf50 the chrome bits, tighten all bolts.
Really useful thread, thanks to all posters.
Anyone else got one of the cheap Argos slow cookers, what setting do you use? I’ll leave it on Low just to see how long the initial melt takes…
Low and it takes about an hour!
Yep, just whack the chain in, turn it on low setting with the lid off, come back in an hour, swish chain about, hang up to cool. Simples. I don’t bother with the boiling water bath, I just wipe over the chain with isopropyl beforehand.
I’m doing a chain once a week at the moment base on doing about 200km per chain, it starts to get a bit tinny sounding by about then if it’s been at all wet, even road spray from a damp road kills it off.
Chain and cassette had some rust on the other day (after the first GLF wax outing in the wet). I had not seen a spot of rust at all on the Molten Speed Wax chains… might have just been unlucky…. 🤷♂️
Low and it takes about an hour!
Thanks, sorry I should have updated my own post, yeah it's fully melted and liquid within an hour 👍
Mines about 30 mins to melt on low setting, big crock pot so more surface area. Morrisons are selling bbq stuff off so I bought some tongs for 2 quid to replace the bent coat hanger.
