Shave? Have you seen my legs😉
I'd buy some to test Daz but it's a bit tricky without a second deep fat fryer..
just got a slow cooker off the bay, pick up on the way home from work tomorrow, for £8
I'll give it a go. Any discount codes for STWers 😉 ?
Aw I really don’t want to hijack a thread to advertise, kind of feel I’ve already done that, sorry OP
But there might already be a code out for the Tour de France if you check my instagram, for anyone who has ordered without using it I think I threw in a wee extra to them all. If I didn’t then give me a shout
Sorry Daz🤣
My only waxing effort was using the Absolute Black Graphen Wax. Utter waste of money. I bought a new chain and followed the instructions to a tee. A single return wet gravel commute and it needed reapplying. I tried once more and then left it in the corner of the shed.
If anyone's interested, this is the Cycling Tips podcast that goes into chain waxing and chain lube comparisons exhaustively. To be brutally honest, the whole Putoline culture war thing on here kind of put me off, but this made sense of it all for me:
https://cyclingtips.com/2022/03/nerd-alert-podcast-finding-the-best-chain-lube-for-your-needs/
My only waxing effort was using the Absolute Black Graphen Wax. Utter waste of money. I bought a new chain and followed the instructions to a tee. A single return wet gravel commute and it needed reapplying. I tried once more and then left it in the corner of the shed.
I've used that on the TT bike, for those critical extra microWatts, and it's not very robust - particularly to the rain like you observed. Not a product for general riding around.
Doubtful it's even good for performance if it it wearing that fast - you would need a freshly-waxed chain each test. tbf a lot of testers would actually do this, or at least re-wax very regularly.
The podcast linked above is worth a listen, it’s with Adam from zero friction cycling. I’ve chatted to Adam a bit and he is definitely worth listening to on this topic.
With regards to the AB graphene wax, have a read at Adam’s review I linked earlier. Way back in my testing I considered a softer wax approach similar to their base wax and very quickly abandoned that idea. Worth reading their review.
I had a rider racing the Ras in Ireland a few weeks ago, he rode 400 miles and one really wet day and was still happy with it, despite me telling him to take a couple of chains and change at 250 miles. Efficiency drops off slowly so for racing it makes sense to wax more often but it definitely lasts well if watt saving isn’t your thing.
I’m also working on a drip on that will work perfectly as a top up for my hot melt wax, my current version isn’t as good as I want as it’s a bit too soft when it sets on the chain. When I get it sorted that will be ideal for those who wax but want an easy top up. It will work as a stand alone product but drip on will never be as good as immersive wax.
I really must shut up now. Give the podcast a listen
When I get it sorted that will be ideal for those who wax but want an easy top up.
I've found a light wet lube perfect for this.
The only issue with a light wet lube as a top up is that you really need to thoroughly clean your chain with degreaser or solvent again before you rewax. The wet lube will contaminate your wax and also prevent wax from sticking to the chain. The current drip on I have is similar to squirt and works well but I won’t sell it as it still needs a clean. I want a top up that you can just forget about and rewax with no cleaning. I’m working on it but I’m not convinced with what I have just yet. Basically if hot water doesn’t remove it fully then it’s too oily to be a true wax top up.
The only issue with a light wet lube as a top up is that you really need to thoroughly clean your chain with degreaser or solvent again before you rewax
Does the hot wax not wash the oil out?
I wonder if the old style crappy 'dry' lube, the stuff that's a really light solvent with wax dissolved in it would work?
This stuff
https://www.tredz.co.uk/.White-Lightning-Clean-Ride-Squeeze-Bottle_18044.htm
It will work as a stand alone product but drip on will never be as good as immersive wax.
Sign me up! I'm more than happy to drip a product onto a chain in the knowledge that while it's not absolutely the best thing, it'll be good enough for what I need it to do. Other thing: does when you lube make that much of a difference? I'm not one for doing it just before I go riding, I'll do it (often/mostly) days before hand. I wonder if that has an impact?
I'd like to give it a try
I'd like to put my business the way of someone on here
So for ****s sake will someone just tell me what Daz's product is called and where I can order some. Or is it some kind of inner STW cabal that I have to be invited to join and go through some initiation involving pouring molten wax over my genitals at midnight under a full moon while eating the still beating heart of a goat.
As a long time Putoline user, I'm also interested to see what you've come up with Daz. Maybe share your Instagram as a way to find you if you're not comfortable with a direct link? Though I don't see any issue with that.
Wax doesn’t clear out oil lube very well, I don’t know the full chemistry, it does remove most of it but then that lube combines with your wax and softens it, I hope to have a product on sale in a month or so that will work well. Downside of a wax compatible lube is that it will need to be applied and given time to dry, usually overnight. I’m trying go have an emulsion version that dries to be exactly like the hot melt but that’s more challenging than I first thought it would be
genubah mentioned it about 3/4 of the way down page one. Daz is seemingly shy of reposting a link so i won't either, but it's easy to find if you type in his three letter brandname and wax or chains or something.
Just don't put an extra 'i' in by mistake which takes you to a whole different site.
www.glfwax.com
Thanks. Looks better than Putoline in many ways, and a reasonable price. I'll probably give it a go at some point. Guess it's probably best to start with a new chain rather than one that's been used with Putoline?
Ohhhh, I'm tempted.
I swear Putoline used to be much harder than it's current boot-polish consistency, I've even bought a new tin to test that theory and it's the same.
I'm wax-curious.
Just ordered some of Daz's wax...
And an ultrasonic cleaner to go with it 😂
No pressure then!!! I know what a fussy lot you are, but joking aside I’m more than open to constructive criticism. I know enough to know I know very little in the grand scheme of things.
Drop me an email or WhatsApp if you have queries, even about waxing in general rather than my product. I feel I’ve turned into a waxing evangelist. The benny hinn of chain waxing 😉
Hoin the club daz! I have been evangelical about it because its so much better.
I wonder if the old style crappy ‘dry’ lube, the stuff that’s a really light solvent with wax dissolved in it would work?
The Zero Friction Cycling guy recommends Smoove as a top-up lube on an immersively waxed chain I think. The proviso is that it works best if you heat it before application. Also says, on their site I think, that it can give results not far off immersion waxing if you apply it to a properly degreased chain - as per immersive waxing - and then pre-heat chain and lube before application to optimise penetration. At which point you might as well just use an immersive wax I think.
That’s always the thing with drip lubes, some test data show them as good or almost as good as hot wax, but they never detail the full procedure you need to go through to get those results. The cleaning process is definitely going to take longer, it’s the ease of cleaning I like the most about hot melt waxing. It’s just so easy. No solvents or degreaser needed ever again.
I converted on my summer road bike (I still think putoline will be go to for the winter longevity)
4 rides in and it's been good so far, that's about 350km but a dusty ride last week (bit of surrey gravel thrown in) and I felt it was just starting to grind a bit yesterday. So today I whipped it off and gave it a couple of hours in the £8 slow cooker I picked up off ebay.
It's now cooled, I've rubbed it over a piece of plumbing waste pipe to loosen it up, and back on. My query for @daz, is that it was running perfectly yesterday in terms of shifting, just not running as smoothly as I feel it should. Now it's running perfectly smoothly and noise free, but the front derailleur won't pick it up from the inner and onto the big ring. Have you seen this in your testing and any thoughts? Does it need twisting after waxing to loosen it side to side? Is the lubricant stopping the shifting pins from getting enough purchase? I suspect after a bit of riding it'll start to work again but thoughts welcomed.
Yeah it’s normal for a chain to be a little stiff when it’s freshly waxed as the wax has worked it’s way into all the links of the chain. It is normally back to smooth running and shifting in about 5 mins, I’ve had a couple of chains take a bit longer and can’t really say why, after about 20 mins or so they are fine, I’d break them in cross chained slightly just to free them up a bit quicker.
Using MoltenSpeedWax I find similar to @theotherjohnv - a freshly waxed chain takes a few miles to "loosen up", but then runs great for some time. Eventually starts to go a bit noisier when I either stick it back in for a new wax or drip some normal lube on if I'm away etc.
@daz, am I right to assume that your drip-on lube would be compatible with other waxes (MSW, Putoline etc) if so I'll grab a bottle when you've got some back in stock.
I like the idea of using something more home-grown and local, so when I need to replace the wax I'll look to get some of yours Daz.
A Question: I'm sure I read on here about cleaning the accumulated debris out of wax - adding water to the molten wax (safer to add it before heating I guess?) so the wax floats to the top and can then be removed as a "puck" once cool. Then scrape the bottom bit off the puck which is where the dirt is.
I can't find that post now. Did I dream it? Does it work?
Thanks !
The drip on will be wax compatible when it’s available, having a few challenges on that front as the raw material for my previous drip on came from Russia or Ukraine, I’m trying to find an alternative, getting a fully wax compatible one is difficult but we will get there.
As for cleaning the residual dirt from wax, it’s not really a massive issue as it takes a long time before any significant build up occurs. You can remove it by turning on your slow cooker long enough for the block to free up, turn it over to release the puck and trim a bit off the bottom, the only issue with that is the fact you’ll also remove a lot of the additive as it tends to settle too. I wouldn’t add water to it personally but no real reason why that wouldn’t work. Water does sink to the base of the wax.
I had considered a cheaper base wax for off-road without the additive for this reason, but it’s not that much cheaper when I do the maths and the ws2 additive is even more effective in harsh conditions, it just isn’t worth the small saving.
Any wax questions please feel free to use the contact me thing on my website or instagram, that comes straight to my WhatsApp, I’m prone to missing posts on here.
Daz,
Im a utterly convinced Putoline user - It ideal for year round mountain biking in Scotland however the only weakness is that you need some corrosion protection after some time (a problem you seem to be working on)
However I have done more road riding this summer and waxed my chain with Putoline , maybe its the hot summer but its incredibly messy (don't care about this on MTB) and seems to be holding dirt and not acting ablative.
My question:
Is there an optimum temperature range for a wax like with motor oils? If I buy your wax will it behave properly from -10 to 30oC? or do I need two different waxes?
I’m sure I read on here about cleaning the accumulated debris out of wax
I wouldn't bother. I use a deep fat fryer and the basket keeps the chain above the dirt in the bottom.
However I have done more road riding this summer and waxed my chain with Putoline , maybe its the hot summer but its incredibly messy
Wax, ride, then give it a thorough rub down with a WD40 cloth, and pick off any residue from the jockey wheels if you are really fussy. Then it'll last all summer with no mess. See my pics earlier on the thread.
re cleaning the excess off the plates after waxing (or a wet ride to stop rusting) - after getting in v gooey putoline mess trying GT85 I found white spirit on a rag was a much cleaner solution. Interested in the top up dropper too
I’m not a fan of the softer waxes for the same reason, they create a mess and attract dirt. I set out to develop a wax that is as hard as possible on the chain, for durability and cleanliness, i never need to clean a chain unless it’s a really wet muddy day. If that’s the case I just rinse it with hot water and rewax, no other cleaning needed. Temperature isn’t a problem, I had riders using it at Volta a Portugal in a heatwave with no problems.
It’s been a very dry spell here and I’ve been trying out extended durability in dust, so far with 5 outings on our local Cavehill trails and no need to even think of a rewax, chain is squeak free and spotless. Cavehill is mostly a downhill kind of spot so limited mileage but still, it’s great having no dirt and black oily mess to deal with.
I am aware that self praise is no recommendation, I’m honestly glad of any feedback anyone on here gives.
It’s frustrating that I don’t have the drip on top up. The race riders I have testing it rave about it for stage races. Works ok as a stand alone but no drip on can ever penetrate and clean a chain like a hot melt immersion so it’s definitely more effective as a top up.
As for cleaning down the chains between waxes to remove dust, alcohol wipes are ideal. If I can find time to get some at reasonable money I’ll add them to my website too. With Covid surplus they aren’t too difficult to find though.
Quick tip for after a wet ride, personally I just throw it back in the wax as it’s easy to do but if you don’t have time, take your chain off and wrap it in a microfibre cloth until you can wax it again, no idea why that stops corrosion but it does. A drip on application as soon as you come off the bike will also do the job. Remember if you use oil or anything with an oil content, you’ll need to solvent clean before putting your chain back in wax.
I completed a 24 hour Everesting off road last Friday on a waxed chain and had no issues at all - can thoroughly recommend!
I did my first ride on a waxed chain at the weekend, first impressions, quiet, smooth shifting, felt low friction.
I cleaned my chain in an Aldi ultrasonic jewellery cleaner using hot water and fairy liquid as a degreaser. The chain hadn't been cleaned in 9 months and was really dirty,it took about 10x 8minutes cycles before the water ran clear. I finished with a final rinse of boiling water from the kettle.
To wax the chain, I laid it in the bottom of the smallest stainless steel pan (12cm diameter), stipped the foil wrappers off and the wicks out of 10 tealight and dropped those on top. set the heat to 3/10 (electric halogen stove top) and left it for half an hour, occasionally jiggling the pan gently to clear any air bubbles. I hooked the chain out with a spoke, left it to cool for 5 minute and fitted back on the bike with the quick link, glad I did this outside and with vinyl gloves on, wax flakes everywhwere!
I've got some ancient(20yr old) Finishline PTFE grease in my toolbox, is it work adding some to the wax next time?
I cleaned my chain in an Aldi ultrasonic jewellery cleaner using hot water and fairy liquid as a degreaser. The chain hadn’t been cleaned in 9 months and was really dirty,it took about 10x 8minutes cycles before the water ran clear. I finished with a final rinse of boiling water from the kettle.
Put the chain in something smaller (even a ziplock bag will do for water based solvents) with the solvent/degreaser, then submerge in the ultrasonic bath. You only need a very small volume of actual liquid to clean the chain.
Having said that I just give it a swish in a jam-jar with the same solvent each time.
I’ve got some ancient(20yr old) Finishline PTFE grease in my toolbox, is it work adding some to the wax next time?
You'd be better off buying PTFE powder or other additives. The concentration of PTFE in the grease will be sufficient in the grease. You'd need probably about same concentration in the wax.
I'd only add grease/oil if you wanted to soften the wax a bit. Which will make it less flakey and more tacky like putoline.
I would definitely add something to normal paraffin wax. I have got some beeswax furniture polish I use on the car seats. Pure beeswax is the consistency of paraffin wax (i.e. normal candles) but the polish is about the consistency of Putoline. It's softened with olive oil. So I would recommend using that or Rape seed oil in your paraffin wax, otherwise it'll be flaky and potentially come off your chain during the ride.
That said the bike grease would probably have a similar effect.
Just ordered some Daz wax.
I've been using Putoline for about 4 years now, but I'm tired of the gunk building up on cassettes and jockey wheels and it really doesn't run that clean in my experience. Still a high potential for chainring tattoos and god forbid you unship a chain on a ride and have to get some on your hands.
Apols if this has been covered, but could someone explain with science how heating it on the hob or in a rice cooker can damage GLF wax please?
Probably worth a read of this -
To quote "A rice cooker will blast heat in like a kettle on cook and this breaks down paraffin’s
long chain molecules damaging its lubricity. Then after rapidly heating to
100dg, it then switches to warm. So if you pop chain in and turn rice cooker on
and come back sometime later, wax will be at 60dg c, near its point of setting
solid again, so you will bring a chain out with far too much excess wax on it
making for a heck of mess when first start riding, and it’s a waste of wax."
I've found a cheap slow cooker from Sainsburys is doing a good job with the glfwax. I just leave it in there so I can lay the chain on top while cold, turn the cooker on and walk away knowing the wax will reach the right temperature and let the chain slowly sink in.
Thanks @chaos, I've read the text on ZFC but I was hoping for a more scientific reference/take on "it will damage the long chain molecules in paraffin wax". My Google-fu may be weak but I can't find any other discussion of this online, apart from in relation to chain waxing. Which potentially seems odd given the various industrial uses of paraffin wax.
I just googled 'thermal stability of paraffin waxes' and there are loads of references, eg:
https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/76177
Section 2.1.1
Thermal stability of paraffin waxes is defined as the maximum temperature limit after which thermal decomposition begins and it is normally 150–170°C
- so i suspect the concern is that if exposed to a hot element, then the local temperature of the wax exposed to the element could exceed those sorts of numbers and hence degrade
Thanks that's very helpful, I'm no chemist.
I will check how hot the pan base of my rice cooker gets with a thermometer.
Like beetlejuice I’m here, except only need to say my name once!
Ok so temperate and damage to wax, it’s quite a complex thing and has been explained to me by my tamed professor but with regard to all the in depth details, my head exploded. Basically overheating the wax won’t ruin it totally but will change its features. It shortens the long chain hydrocarbons and weakens the bonds in the material, grades of paraffin all have different melting points and temperatures they can tolerate, that’s why I recommend a slow cooker on low/medium with the lid off. It beats the wax slowly and won’t exceed 100 degrees usually.
Heating on a hob or rice cooker will definitely exceed this temperature and that does harm the base wax I use. The effect is that the wax feels easier to break, hard to describe but probably more chalky and won’t adhere to your chain as well. It will still work, but just won’t last as long.
The additives are really what it’s about anyway, at least in the case of our wax, the wax is a carrier and also a great barrier for contamination, the main lubricant and wear protection comes from the additives and that’s where we’ve spent most of the time and money researching.
Damn I've just bought some Putoline with the aim of going to chain waxing and it seems like I should have bought one of Daz's bricks instead.
If I do continue with the Putoline, anyone know how to get the bloody lid off? Google translate says something like insert screwdriver into cam but that makes no sense as it's just a rolled edge. It doesn't look like a paint tin as there's nothing to hook onto and I don't want to go butchering it.
Cheers
G
If you want a much quicker, more temp controlled wax melter, I’m using a Lakeland multi cooker on slow cooker setting, it melts wax a lot quicker but so far I’m not finding any degradation in the quality of the wax. Recommend them!
eApols if this has been covered, but could someone explain with science how heating it on the hob or in a rice cooker can damage GLF wax please?
Easiest way to think of it is the chain will break at the weakest point. And hydrocarbon chains are no different.
Unsaturated chains with double bonds, like unsaturated fat, are easier to break because you've got a big cloud of electrons fizzing round just waiting to react. This is pat of the reason why synthetic oil is better than mineral oil, synthetic oil is made of alkanes (saturated) rather than a random mix of alkanes/alkenes which makes it more stable over time. It's also why replacing your synthetic oil at 6,000 rather than 24,000* miles is a waste of money unless you have some other issue contaminating it, the oil itself is fine.
So when you heat up oil or wax until it begins to smoke, the long unsaturated chains are breaking up. So your =C20 paraffin becomes C9 + C9 + CO + CO, then CO reacts with itself to make CO2 and C, which is why it's smoky.
*or whatever the manual says
[several steps have been glossed over for the sake of simplicity]
If I do continue with the Putoline, anyone know how to get the bloody lid off? Google translate says something like insert screwdriver into cam but that makes no sense as it’s just a rolled edge. It doesn’t look like a paint tin as there’s nothing to hook onto and I don’t want to go butchering it.
It's exactly like a paint tin unless they've changed it.
Hmm. My current bat h of putoline was initially used for a few times in a dff with a naked element. Heated up really quickly but it did smoke a bit. Only at first though, until there was enough liquid to connect the heat around.
I wonder if it's harmed it.
thisisnotaspoon
If I do continue with the Putoline, anyone know how to get the bloody lid off? Google translate says something like insert screwdriver into cam but that makes no sense as it’s just a rolled edge. It doesn’t look like a paint tin as there’s nothing to hook onto and I don’t want to go butchering it.It’s exactly like a paint tin unless they’ve changed it.
If it were I'm sure it'd be simple. The lid I have appears to be a single continuous piece in the centre that wraps up the vertical and over. There's no obvious leverable point except for the very edge and that wraps so far over that I can't see anything to lever against. I'd take a pic but I'm at work and it's in the garage at home.
I seem to remember basically having to claw at the edge of the Putoline lid with some pliers to get the ****er off.
Thanks to Daz, TINAS and others re. damaging wax by oerheating. I don't really want to buy another appliance and send my mucky old ricecooker to landfill, I will see if there's a cheapo slow cooker on FB marketplace nearby...
Hmm. My current bat h of putoline was initially used for a few times in a dff with a naked element. Heated up really quickly but it did smoke a bit. Only at first though, until there was enough liquid to connect the heat around.
I wonder if it’s harmed it.
My first Putoline tin ~2008 definitely started off hard, the chain would jump and skip if I pedaled hard out the garage on a cold day and excess wax came off as flakes. Over a decade of generally not really thinking about it, throwing wet chains, oily chains, greasy chains, into it at 190F it definitely became softer and greasier.
My second tin seems to have started off where the first left off.
So either:
1) My memory is cloudy.
2) There's variance between their batches or they've changed the recipe, and it does go off if mistreated.
I've said previously though I'm not sure it's enough to worry about. Hot waxing chains at all seems to be the big improvement, swapping waxes or cookers probably less so. If I was setting up from scratch, yes I would clean chains in an ultrasonic bath of hexane, then wax them in a slow cooker of MSW or Daz's wax. But until my fryer packs up I'll probably stick with cleaning in diesel, and putoline with a slightly smoky warm-up.
Just looking on amazon, and it turns out several things I didn't know existed, actually do.
1) Molten parafin wax as a beauty treatment that you dip your hands/feet into.
2) Scented wax for the above.
3) Temperature controlled tubs for doing this it.
Scented* chain wax anyone?
*not putoline smell.
Well I've joined the 'throngs' of waxers! I bought a 0.9ltr Tower DFF from TJ Hughes for £15 and some putoline. Cooked my first 2 chains on Sunday and no dramas (that's as much of a surprise to me as anyone else 😂) having previously tested a couple of chains with someone else cooking them for me - thanks @nobbingsford 😁. The Tower DFF does not have an exposed element which, having read through some of the comments on here, I thought was wise.
Ive joined the putoline crew as well. It's not as clean as i had hoped but does seem to work well and is super quiet. It's also much easier to do than i imagined. I found a second hand electric fondue in a recycling shop near us which is perfect. No chance of overheating as it isn't that powerful
I cleaned the last two chains with white spirit before frying. Doesn't seem to have negatively impacted the results, if anything it's cleaner. But it's not wet out in trails or roads at the moment. I'm wondering if the solvent helped draw the wax into the chain somewhat? No idea.
I’ve been using MSW on my new bike and I’m pretty unimpressed thus far. Gets noisy after only a few dry rides of 50 kms or so. When I say noisy it’s not the chain being noisy whilst pedalling - it’s when I shift that it starts to clunk louder and louder. The Putoline never did this but it was in a completely different bike. I have no idea if the wear rate is any different as yet - I’ll measure tomorrow but it’s an XO1 chain that has done about 500 miles so far. If it’s started to wear I will have a couple of blocks of MSW for sale along with a slow cooker!!!
Daz please send me a DM with a link or someone else stick a link on here. I WANT DAZ WAX!
I’ve been using a camping stove so bolloxed my plutoline.
Thanks
Glfwax.com
I've switched from Putoline to Daz's glfwax, initially on my road bikes and now across the entire fleet.
Lasts really well (I did a whole weekend riding in torrential rain in the lakes a few weeks ago) and chains are so much better to handle without the tackiness of putoline. Just ned to scrub the old detritus off my mechs and frame so they look as clean as the chain and cassette 😀
fwiw; I use a "professional wax heater" from Argos; it has the advantage of both thermostatic control and an element that doesn't go above about 95C; at the expense that the wax pot is small (it does easily fit a chain in thuogh)
That does look good, but the basket on a deep fat fryer is handy. How long does it take that thing to fully liquify the wax?
There’s variance between their batches or they’ve changed the recipe, and it does go off if mistreated.
Rules around VOC/Solvents in manufacturing plants may have impacted the consistency (and effectiveness) of putoline.
I know there have been some materials related issues around reduction and deletion of various chemicals from manufacturing processes.
I reckon it's about half an hour; though I don't ever time it. Just chuck the chain on top; switch it on then remember I left it on sometime later; grab the chain and chuck it in a cermic plantpot to let it cool. glfwax sell a swisher (a piece of wire with a screw connector on) which sits out the wax and makes retrieval simple. I'll time it next time and let you know !
Chain wear zilch on my XO1 chain so that’s OK. I rewaxed today ready for a 60 miler tomorrow morning so I’ll see how it is. I wonder how different to MSW the GLFwax is?
I have bunch of metal tags made from 3mm aluminium strip. These have a hole drilled in for a keyring, then a number of holes that corresponds to the number of the chain. Each bike has 3 chains, one (one hole), two, (two holes) and three (three holes). This means I can tell which chain is which. Treated and used chains get stored in labelled recycled take away plastic tubs.
I put the keyring through the eyelets in the ends of the chain, and then lob the chains in the wax. When I take them out I hang them by the keyring from a hook above an old Amazon box which absorbs any drips. When the chain is nearly at room temp, I wipe the exterior plates down to remove any excess wax. When cold, I store in the boxes.
I run them for approx 100km (offroad) before rotating to the next chain.
It is way better than any other lube system I have ever used.
Do the additives in @DAZ wax separate when melted? Do the pot need stirring?
Is it worth making a small mesh tray to support the chain in the wax bath so any contamination sinks to the bottom under the chain?
Could you then scrap off the bottom contaminated layer or would that lose the additives?
I have bunch of metal tags...
This is madness, I mean, I bet you get amazing mileage, but clearly you are insane. 🙂
The additives in GLF do separate or sink slightly, when we were working on the ideal mix we tried adding all kinds of surfactants etc to avoid this but they all had an effect on the performance of the wax in use. We also looked at the penetration of the additives into the chain under electron microscope and arrived at the concentration, particle size and process we use now. The agitation of the chain in the molten wax is sufficient to stir the mix and ensure sufficient penetration. Remember your chain sinks down to where the greatest concentration of additives sit when melting and then shaking the chain submerged allows this to flow into the links.
Just one point to remember, leave your chain submerged for 15 mins at least, preferably more, this allows the inner surfaces of the chain to heat up and stops wax solidifying internally in your chain, this is needed to make sure your wax is filling every small gap. If you want to go into it very deep, a heated ultrasonic cleaner does this even better, but that’s being very OCD.
What’s the difference between MSW and GLF? Well I can’t give too much away but our wax has different properties which means it avoids abrasion better, and our additive while apparently the same material, has a different appearance. One of our initial batches had the same appearance however we stopped using that additive.
We also have a much more premium product in development, the performance of this one is much better, but it is much more expensive and probably only for race chain use.
Both products will be going for testing at a popular test facility when finances allow.
So would a rack to keep the chain out of the silt at the bottom mean that you weren't getting the ideal concentration of additives?
I haven’t tested the rack idea but it’s definitely sound principles, I haven’t really found contamination to have a huge negative effect in truth though, yeah your wax starts to last a shorter time after 30-40 waxes but it’s worth having to change to fresh wax more often to save any drivetrain cleaning in my opinion (I’m selling it so would say that 😉)
If your chain is very dirty, a good rinse under boiling water cleans most of it off, I have an old kettle I whack it in and boil it for that purpose. I’d only do that in really stinking days and never on my road bike.
Coincidentally, I made a basket for my slow cooker from some thin welded mesh I had lying around the other day:
If your chain is very dirty, a good rinse under boiling water cleans most of it off, I have an old kettle I whack it in and boil it for that purpose. I’d only do that in really stinking days and never on my road bike.
Took me a while to work out that boiling water is a much more effective way of cleaning wax off things than solvents.
Just stumbled across this and have been wax curious for a while.
Quick question and apologies if this has already been covered…how meticulous do I need to be with cleaning my chainrings and jockey wheels?
They have only ever seen drip wax in the form of Squirt.
I’m starting with a new (fully stripped) chain and cassette.
if you've only used drip lube before I don't think it will be too bad for build up and you can get away without. If they do have build up, a wipe over the chainrings with some degreaser (I use Screwfix No Nonsense) and maybe drop the jockey wheels out and give them a quick clean.
Using Dazwax (glf) on my road bike, and there's no buildup in use. Putoline on the gravel / winter and MTB, that can build up on jockey wheels in particular
The agitation of the chain in the molten wax is sufficient to stir the mix
So a deep fat fryer with the chip basket is probably good for this purpose...?
Hi Daz.
Your GLF wax website is good and informative.
I totally agree that initial solvent cleaning is vital with a new chain. It’s obvious that the hot wax needs to bond to the metal and can’t do that with manufacturers grease in the links.
Then, once clean and waxed - no more solvents and a lovely “fresh” chain every rewax.
I’ve been using MSW then Silca hot melt wax a few years now (chain and drivetrain wear is massively reduced and it’s all lovely and clean)
I do rinse in boiling water after any wet ride as ZFC recommend. Never in a closed container, it almost explodes when opened. I use an old pan on the hob and a couple of water changes then dry with hot air gun.
Good to see you explaining all that here.
https://www.glfwax.com/pages/instructions-1
You’re right that Adam at Zerofrictioncycling is a treasure trove of info on all this wax stuff.
BTW
I think you mentioned a fryer at one point there, maybe you meant the slow cooker you mention elsewhere? Just sayin. I learned that keeping the wax above 200F (93C)for very long will risk damaging the wax.
At £20 for your GLF wax I find it hard to imagine why anyone would bother with candles / homebrew wax. Even a low end Sram cassette costs a fortune these days and wasting drivetrain parts is hardly “eco”.
Your prewaxed chains seem a proper bargain too if the wax looks after the drivetrain like MSW and Silca waxes do.
As you mentioned - what the hell did AB do with theirs tho!! Their other products are fab.
I guess it’s too costly to get yours tested by ZFC? I’d love to see the result and switch to yours.
So a deep fat fryer with the chip basket is probably good for this purpose…?
Depends, a DFF will heat up to close to 200C which means that you could have very high heater temps and start the break the wax down - as per discussion at top of this page.
The basket is a decent idea though
Cheers @theotherjonv…I have the ScrewFix stuff, will give them a wipe down with a rag soaked in that then perhaps repeat with methylated spirits.
Didn’t fancy whipping my chainrings off and soaking overnight although it might actually be less effort…
