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Dirt have just released the video of Cedrics crash last month at the Mega
http://dirt.mpora.com/news/cedric-gracias-mega-crash.html
Tiny little low speed off resulting in torn femoral 😯
huge kudos to everyone in the video for staying calm and managing to control the blood loss
I think for all of us thats one of the ones that you just think, "But for the grace of god..."
Nuts!
Remarkable composure from all involved.
Bloody Hell, can't help thinking how we all walk the tight rope!
He is a first aiders dream, very calm considering the only time you will want a knee in your groin!
Bloody Hell, can't help thinking how we all walk the tight rope!
🙄
Do give over...
Instructional though; big bleed = press on it until help arrives.
said it before but is this kind of stuff that scares me, much morw so than really pushing myself when I'm trying to manage the risks. Just tootling along, no worries ...then bang. If that had been me on my sunday afternoon mince round my local route then i'd have probably bled to death...:-(
Shit a brick, that's bloody scary.
Wife will be getting a first aid course fir Christmas now. Only trouble being, I might have bled out by the time she catches up to me.
Wow, quite difficult to watch that video, and i'm not really a squeamish person.
In way, luckily it was an external bleed. Could easily have been internal and the severity of it perhaps not immediately noticed.
Sometimes, your mates are worth there weight in gold hey 😉
GWS Cedric!
Celox is your friend.
crikey - Member
Bloody Hell, can't help thinking how we all walk the tight rope!Do give over...
Instructional though; big bleed = press on it until help arrives.
Sorry Crikey - he is right.
Severity vs likelihood.
Not very likely but bloody hell, that's pretty server.
Sorry Crikey - he is right.
No. He really isn't right.
Think of the number of people who ride mountain bikes.
Think of the number of deaths which occur while people are riding mountain bikes.
There's no 'tightrope' to walk, it's not a dangerous activity and suggesting it is is silly Daily Mailesque scare mongering.
For a more objective and hard headed approach, look at the cost of getting insured when going abroad to ride your bike.
No, on second thoughts you're right Crikey. The 1/4 inch away from a broken back and near broken neck that I've had are total figments of my imagination...
Or more likely our experiences are just different. Within my wide group of my riding companions I am not that unusual.
That's grim, he was lucky. Why did the artery rupture? Bar end?
Jeepers, lucky bastard to walk (sort of!) away from that!
Crikey, do you wear a helmet when you bike? If not, you're right, it's not dangerous and I'll go find something else to do instead.
CG is ace.. I hope he mends well. 🙂
Every A&E MTB accident I've had in the last 3 years has been through 'just riding along'. That's what scares me.
I'm currently off the bike with a broken sternum (12 weeks to heal fully!) from just riding along and ****ing up for a nano-second. The accident before last lead to 3 weeks in a dopey concussive state. A second's mis-calcluation is all it seems to take, IME.
I've pinned it like a mentalist a-plenty in that the last 3 years also, but it's the 'just riding along' bits that always seem to get me.
Scary vid... I couldn't actually watch too much of it! 😯
I think it is because when you are JRA you are not 100% focusing. When you're absolutely going for it everything is focused and sharp. My worst recent accident was a JRA along as well.
Why did the artery rupture?
His pelvis broke, taking his artery with it!
Cedric's pelvis has previous!
Crikey is right. "We all walk a tightrope" is guff.
Pelvis not broke! Wow that's a freak accident!
His Pelvis has still had previous!
Madness, just a gentle ride out then BAMM you're spouting the red stuff.
Celox is your friend
Anyone actually used it? Would it work on such a heavy bleed?
Anyone actually used it? Would it work on such a heavy bleed?
Not a clue got some in my works first aid kit but everyone at work won't hurt themselves enough to try it 😉
His pelvis broke,
Ah, didn't realise that...
in which case, you can only begin to imagine how painful it was having his mate stick his knee in there to put pressure on the bleed 😯
The 1/4 inch away from a broken back and near broken neck that I've had are total figments of my imagination...
So that's a [b]not[/b] broken back and a [b]not[/b] broken neck.
Like I said, it's not dangerous.
So that's a not broken back and a not broken neck.Like I said, it's not dangerous.
But would you not say it's a close call?? I'd say a 1/4 inch a way from paralysis or death is closer than most of us would like...
CG's pelvis-shattering crash was a different episode to this one. I have no idea whether any previous surgery affected his groin veins or whether he just got a brake lever in the wrong place. Looks painful though!
Anyone actually used [Celox]? Would it work on such a heavy bleed?
I haven't seen it used on anything quite as fast-flowing as this accident, but it is supposed to work on both arterial and venous bleeds (and trial data suggests it does) so I would imagine it would work, yes. It's not something most of us carry in a Camelbak though. For that sort of crash, manual pressure is definitely the correct thing to do.
crikey - MemberSorry Crikey - he is right.
No. He really isn't right.
Think of the number of people who ride mountain bikes.
Think of the number of deaths which occur while people are riding mountain bikes.
I've been at two race meets where someone has been killed, the most recent in October this year.
I have done 541 races, at an average of (wild guess) 150 people at each that's 81150 starts, so a 1 in 40575 chance of being killed in a race.
Don't know how many air-ambulances I've seen over the years, my former team-mate has been in one twice, most recently Margam 2011.
Google search for risks of skydiving says 1 in 70,000 chance of being killed.
Neither of these are big numbers. Google tells me that 13 people are killed every year by vending machines falling on them, but only 5 by sharks
Risk = likelihood x outcome
Same old STW 🙄
I got shown a film of a pig having its femoral artery cut, fixed with Celox, and carried around(to simulate being a squaddie). At my last first aid course. It worked!!
I like cedric.....seems like a nice bloke. I would love to buy him a pint.
Well, it makes me want to put some celox in the first aid kit.
Hope they put the pig back together when they finished.
The likelihood of death is less than the likelihood of serious injury or disability. I'm not saying that major injury is common - just that it is a risk we all run. No need for all the vehemence perhaps...
Might want to get two on the sachet it says a second application may be needed.
So that's a not broken back and a not broken neck.
Like I said, it's not dangerous.
It's strange though Crikey, being restrained on a spinal board for a couple of hours at a time and having spinal x-rays is very sobering and a reminder that there is real risk in cycling. According to the consultant in Glamorgan a few years ago - spinal injuries of varying seriousness are common in their area.
I've been recovered by ambulance several times in the last 18 years. 2 fractured arms, 2 broken noses, 1 suspected broken neck, 1 suspected lumbar spinal injury, severe facial injuries requiring degree of plastic surgery and orthodontic surgery, 1 de-gloved knee - cut open to bone, 2 arms and 2 legs abraded to lower dermal layer and subcutaneous fat, 2 concussions, torn muscles to shoulder, neck and back, hyper-extension of shoulder.
These are just my injuries Crikey. Does my engagement in this sport not sound like it bears some risk...? These obviously also don't include the normal scrapes, bruises, grazes and sprains you get.
I've been recovered by ambulance several times in the last 18 years. 2 fractured arms, 2 broken noses, 1 suspected broken neck, 1 suspected lumbar spinal injury, severe facial injuries requiring degree of plastic surgery and orthodontic surgery, 1 de-gloved knee - cut open to bone, 2 arms and 2 legs abraded to lower dermal layer and subcutaneous fat, 2 concussions, torn muscles to shoulder, neck and back, hyper-extension of shoulder.
Have you ever thought maybe you're doing it wrong? 😛
You never know chap!
I am unable to comment on your propensity for injury, maybe it's a skills issue....
The fact remains that of the many thousands of people involved in mountain biking across the UK, the vast majority of them manage to ride without causing themselves any major injury, and more specifically, any major vascular injury.
Go and check how much it costs to insure yourself... well maybe not you, as you seem to be a one man disaster area, but how much it is to insure someone for a mountain bike holiday. Insurance companies have a very clear idea of how risky things are.
Sorry, but it's not a dangerous thing to do, however much you protest.
Its only dangerous [s]when[/s] If you fall off..
My health insurance says otherwise, it will only pay for half of my medical bills if injury is caused whilst racing downhill on a bicycle.
It can be a dangerous thing to do no matter how much you protest.
is caused whilst racing downhill on a bicycle.
So that would be different to the scenario Crikey outlined then? He specifically mentions holidays as that is analogous to what the majority of riders do.
Typical surrender monkey started talking about dying before his time had come! Should have ridden home one legged 🙂
Sorry stolen from a friends post on my FB made me chuckle!
man, watching that made me sweat. great work from everyone involved and glad cg made it through.
only stw heroes/lowlifes could devolve into an argument over this 🙄
Cedric is very very lucky. If that artery had separated, it's usually lights out. Certainly on a mountain and without a tourniquet.
Obviously a very serious injury/situation but anyone else think the Fall Guy stuff was weird and in poor taste given that even Gracia thought he was going to die at one point?
Crikey - I'm not saying it's dangerous. I'm saying there is a degree of risk. Maybe it is skills issue. I'm no super skilled riding hero - but I do try to progress and improve even at my old age. Yes, I like riding DH trails, I like the occasional 6' - 8' drop - but I don't really like doubles. I love very steep technical trails. My general preference is black rather than red routes but also off piste over trail centres.
Maybe this leads to an increased risks...? Wouldn't say it is a dangerous sport but it can lead to dangerous situations.
Not usualy squeamish but that had my writhing in my seat 😳
Jamj1974.. can you pick my lottery numbers on sat night please ?
ton - MemberI like cedric.....seems like a nice bloke. I would love to buy him a pint.
It looks like he needed several pints; just make sure that you buy him the right blood type! 😉
13 people are killed every year by vending machines falling on them
Lets ban vending machines! 🙄 Or at least require PPE and training to operate them! 😕 (Almost all of the deaths have to be caused by people trying to tip the machine and shake out an item, so natural selection)
Bit worried that if i was bleeding lots some of you would try and put a magic cream on me, rather than trying to stop me from bleeding more.
Jam you need to give up, or ride within your abilities a bit more.
Classic STW... you guys, eh. You are real men. 🙄
Bit worried that if i was bleeding lots some of you would try and put a magic cream on me, rather than trying to stop me from bleeding more.
😆
my mate shattered his pelvis, the surgeon said 25% of people with the type of break he had don't make it to hospital, because of the massive internal bleeding when they nick that artery
I was with him when he did it, i thank the stars that he didn't start bleeding like Cedric did, as I would not have been able to deal with it...
You can get Celox gauze which takes any decision making out of the process, you just whap it on straight away to apply pressure with.
wrecker - MemberCedric is very very lucky. If that artery had separated, it's usually lights out. Certainly on a mountain and without a tourniquet.
Never been taught to put a tourniquet on a femoral bleed it's always been pressure like in the video
"He doesn't care about his shoes... he's sponsored"
[b]A[/b]irway
[b]B[/b]reathing
[b]C[/b]irculation
[b]D[/b]isability
[b]E[/b]xposure
[b]S[/b]hoes
Very lucky boy.... bleeding like that out in the hills.
Crazy bleeds are worth going prepared for, kit and knowledge. You can change the outcome by doing some thing right there and then.
One question. Would "elevating the bleed" have helped at all in that situation? Seemed he was legs downs the whole time?
(Not a criticism at all, they all did [b]incredibly[/b] well considering the unexpected seriousness of the situation!)
He wasn't bleeding from his legs, but upstream of his legs (in a vascular sense). So you'd have to elevate hips above heart, and it'd make such a negligible difference in that scenario and, more importantly, impede the efforts to apply pressure.
Airway
Breathing
Circulation
Disability
Exposure
Shoes
Like
🙂
FunkyDunc - Member... Jam you need to give up, or ride within your abilities a bit more.
So worst accident happend on a very rainy day on the Cwmcarn DH course, where I exited the tunnel into a cloud making its way in the valley. Couldn't see a thing and crashed causing the suspected broken neck, torn muscles concussion and facial injuries - despite armour and full face. Next most serious accident happened hitting an unseeable deep hole and going over bars with saddle hitting my lumbar region and almost causing a broken back. So these two were freak accidents rather than skills shortfalls. The degloving of the knee and one leg and arm abrasion was a case of cranking the bike over rather too far in a ford - so a case of pure stupidity. Another concussion with leg and arm abrasion happened with a front wheel washing out and me heading over a precipice - simply I panicked and it all went wrong. One of the fractured arms occurred when I crashed into a fence post - really a case of trying to ride to fast around a bend and going wide.
So I think about 50/50 skills to freak accidents really...
Awesome footage, great calm guy & mates, no flapping probably played a big part in saving him, including doing the corect thing immediately & reassessing the situation.
💡 Gotta think that the open fracture & visible blood loss was a great aid to guiding them, if it was a closed fracture with internal blood loss it would have been a whole heap more difficult to apply the direct pressure in time to save him.
Get well soon GC & hats off to all those around him!!!!!!!! 😛
Worth carrying some cayenne pepper with you to stop bleeding.
http://www.gobeyondorganic.com/you-can-stop-bleeding-in-less-than-60-seconds
C catastrophic haemorrhage
A airway
B breathing
C circulation
If your hosing out like this fella it doesn't matter how patent your airway is if some one doesn't stop that bleeding its good night Vienna !
I sent my son on a first aid course before we went cycle touring, to appease his grandad ( just in case, thankfully not needed ). His course was general and was focused more on workplace issues. He watched the video and was impressed with them, and didn't think that his course really would have helped him prepare for that kind of situation.
Seeing this has reminded me that I should brush up on my skills. Does anyone know of a first aid course aimed more at this kind of thing?
Paul.
This scares me and if it weren't a freak occurrence, would make me want to bring some of the afore mentioned gauze on rides.
That said, I wouldn't be prepared and possibly composed enough to deal with it.
"Worth carrying some cayenne pepper with you to stop bleeding.
http://www.gobeyondorganic.com/you-can-stop-bleeding-in-less-than-60-second s"
FFS. If i'm taking this comment too seriously and missing the irony here I apologise, but i'm really hoping you can't mean that!
As Tim Minchin put it much better than I ever could:
"Alternative remedies have, by their nature, either not been proven to work, or have been proven to not work. Do you know what they call alternative medicine that's been proved to work? ....MEDICINE"
Lets not distract from sensible first aid advice with this rubbish.
Cedric has long recovered from this accident and is still riding like he always has. Flat out with style. Our sport is dangerous, as any mountain sport is. If you have a stack miles from civilisation with no phone coverage what do you think will happen? Oh ride within your limits they may say. But the unexpected is around every corner, even trails you know like the back of your hand change week in week out ( unless you just ride fire roads or trail centres), miss a key line and you can be in trouble. If you don't push your limits you don't progress. Watching that film made me think, how would you contact help in an area with no phone signal in a similar situation. A bar, brake lever or branch could cause similar damage if you got it in your groin. Obviously if your face/limbs/organs are impervious to rocks/trees and you have mad skills then crashing out as you hoon along the canal towpath to the post office, there is never any danger. But that's no me or anybody I know, or who have ever met on the trails.
It's all very well carrying all the gear but not knowing how to use it properly renders it pretty much redundant. The best thing to do would be to get some first aid training which can teach you how to deal with the normal stuff as well as the serious injuries i.e. catastrophic bleeds, sucking chest wounds, collapsed lungs etc, the sort of freakish accident which requires immediate action to stop someone dying in front of you.
Hats off to CG's companion and CG himself - amazing composure and the right actions meant he didn't bleed out on the spot. Chapeau, les gars!
I'm not sure whether the lesson is to get really good at first responder stuff, or, to only go riding with Cedric Gracia, who can have horrific accidents then tell his mates how to save his own life while he bleeds like he's been harpooned.
As for the risk argument- you have to be an idiot to think that mountain biking is without risks. But it's a big step from that, to thinking it's dangerous. Serious injuries in our sport are rare, that's why when it does happen it's so shocking.
YetiDan - Speaking from experience the stuff does work. Plenty of vids on youtube to show it works. Been used for years.
Cedric has long recovered from this accident and is still riding like he always has.
This was a couple of weeks ago...
My mistake, I thought it was footage of his last massive life threatening crash where he also smashed his hip up last year I think. Nothing stops that man. He is a legend, glad he's ok.
YetiDan - Speaking from experience the stuff does work. Plenty of vids on youtube to show it works. Been used for years.
Do you not find it strange, though, that the only "evidence" of it working is videos on youtube and hearsay rather than, say, peer reviewed scientific studies?
I work as a Paramedic in London and I have no doubt that if the NHS could save itself £40 each for a blast dressing or chito-gauze (plus the licensing and training burdens that come with drugs such as Tranexamic acid) then they would jump at the chance.
I'm not saying it's impossible, just that, like homeopathy, it relies on hearsay and noisy proponents more than reasoned arguments and repeatable, peer reviewed experiments and that makes me very suspicious.
This study (for which 80 pigs died!) suggests no difference between Celox, other similar agents and just standard gauze:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21496135/
If your hosing out like this fella it doesn't matter how patent your airway is
Am well aware of that fact (work in a Surgical & Trauma Assessment Unit) - I just liked the line about his sponsored shoes. Anyway, full marks to them for staying calm & doing the right thing in a nasty situation.
I did a two day outdoor first aid course with Rick Cotgreave at Pure Outdoor in the Peaks. After that, I feel better prepared to deal with something like that than the usual work based first aid courses.
Having not been in that situation though, I've no idea if I'd be that cool and collected or just pap myself.