[Closed] Carrera Banshee x and llandegla

You are going to have to splash the cash if you want to loose the pounds. The easiest and biggest weight loss will come from the wheels. After that its down to the components. Mountain kings aren't the lightest but they are certainly not the heaviest either.

Stronger legs will make life easier as well.

Thanks for your help. What's a good wheel weight/upgrade?

BTW I forgot to say its a 2013 model

The Careers Banshee X is circa 15.5-16kg with pedals iirc but I reckon they feel heavier than that lol.

To drop 3-4 kg off that so you would even notice the benefit of any weight saving would cost you more than buying a better bike. Saving 100g on each tyre for example is not going to be noticeable.

Everything on that bike is heavy from the frame and forks right through to the finishing kit. Its not functionally heavy either, its heavy because its cheap.

Work on circa £1 to save every 2 to 3 gramms of weight in the first instance to get you below £14.5kg, then circa £1 to save 1g of weight with diminishing returns due to the frame weight after that.

A good hardtail like a Bizango or Boardman Comp at this entry price point would give you a much more balanced ride if you were concerned about hills.

So how much do I need to spend to get a decent full suspension? Any links? I might start saving

I assume a decentish full suspension bike would weigh about 14.5Kg right?

Also is the biking weighing 2KG less similar to say me losing 2KG in body fat or is it more beneficial for the bike to be lighter?

So how much do I need to spend to get a decent full suspension? Any links?

For normal trail use I would suggest about £1500 'ish. It should then have decent forks and rear shock with good, well controlled damping and not be too heavy either. I would say anything around 30lb in weight is reasonable. In terms of brands Giant, Specialized and Trek are probably where I would spend my money. If you are saving this time of year can offer some good bargains as the new models come out from September onwards - so you've got a year to save...

I don't think you need a suspension bike for those areas though. You get more for your money with a hardtail bike and weights can be drastically lower. A £1500 hardtail could weigh c25lb.

Improving your fitness will make more difference than spending money on a new bike, whether it be through increased power, lower weight, better endurance or a mix of the three. I've seen mates who really don't like climbing buy fancy lightweight carbon bikes to make the hills easier and still find the hills just as slow and annoying! Nowadays my view is I want to get to the top sooner so I get more descents in but I don't kill myself because I want to have enough energy to ride downhill well.

When you're finding the uphills tiresome, remind yourself that the bike will be a joy on the way back down! 😀

All some very good points cheers guys.

Looking forward to giving it another go... its seems like a good bike for blasting downhill on, especially on the more technical bits

Certainly a big step up from my Carrera Vulcan 🙂

Are the mountain kings 2.2's a good tyre choice for llandegla?

@cookci

Don't get too hung up on weights but when at an average level of fitness and not an unhealthy body weight then all things being equal, you will see the benefits in a reasonable full susser weighing in at a functional weight of 29-31 lbs (up to c13.5kgs) including pedals, bottle cage etc.

Body weight is only an issue if you are unhealthy. Unless you are at an unhealthy weight and unfit (out of breath going up a couple of flights of stairs) then saving on bike weight will be noticeable more than body weight. A drop in bodyweight is exponentially beneficial though, if you are starting from an unhealthy base and you start gain fitness and lose fat.

Once you get to a bike weight of 32+lbs then you will start to feel the weight on climbs when off-road regardless of fitness but it isn't a barrier. Get up to circa 36+lbs which the Banshee is and it is very noticeable. Even at these weights climbing is very possible, albeit a bit slower and it helps to be fit. You need to decide how important climbing and xc speed is vs affordability.

Which spec / year is your Banshee, has it got the epicon air forks and shock as actually if it has, at least these lock out properly? You would need to spend circa £600-£800 to change over the drivetrain, brakes, wheels, tyres bars, seatpost, stem, saddle to decent lightweight kit but even then you are left with an entry level frame.

Climbing on a longer travel full suspension bike can be very hard work at the best of times, especially if it is a cheaper bike with poor quality suspension design.

Spending circa £1k on a Scott Scale 750 or Trek Superfly 5 or 6 will get you a light weight well specced hardtail bike.

Spending £1500-£2000 on a full suspension is really the cheapest end you want to consider if weight is a big factor for you.

But as has been said by others, focus on your fitness first and foremost, enjoy the bike and when it is nackered, then is the time to replace with something much better.

I have uploaded a picture which hopefully will answer questions on the bikes specs:
[img] [/img]

The suspension does lock out front and rear and feels awesome compared to the rock shox dart 3 on the Vulcan

I have ordered a luggage weighing tool for £2 so will have a better idea to its weight soon

Unless you are at an unhealthy weight and unfit (out of breath going up a couple of flights of stairs) then saving on bike weight will be noticeable more than body weight.

This is utter bollocks - the savings on bike weight are tiny compared to potential savings on body weight. I'm the last person who'd advocate losing weight rather than getting stronger and improve your cardio ability but the main benefit of saving weight on a bike is the placebo effect unless you're talking about saving seconds to get on a race podium.

I reckon that bike looks rad. 🙂

Don't fret about the climbing - it's still quite hard work on a bike that isn't as much fun down hill. Pacing yourself and sticking at it is the single most important thing to climb quicker. If you stop every 5 minutes to have a bit of a faff because you're tired you stay slow and it's annoying. Just getting on with it steadily is the way to go.

Just ride more and the speed will come.

That bike looks pretty nice and in reality you won't find anything significantly lighter without spending a lot. You may be able to spend £3k and buy a bike that weighs 3kg less. Combined weight of bike + rider = ~ 90-100kg, so losing 3kg equates to a 3% speed increase. I.e. hardly game-changing.

They're actually pretty nice bikes those Banshee Xs but it'll never be a whippet. And like above, making it significantly lighter will be hard, because the weight's spread out- some bikes are basically light with a few heavy components which works less well from new but is easier to change, Carreras tend to be fairly equally specced which works better from new but is harder to upgrade.

The Mountain Kings aren't particularily slow tyres- depends a bit on which exact version, some are very heavy, some are faster.

I worded it badly.

What I was trying to say, is if you are already fit and healthy i.e. at your correct/target body weight, then saving weight off a bike (decent weight not punitive gramms) is going to be a bigger benefit. If you are fit with low body fat then unless you actually need to lose weight, there are probably no gains to be had from dropping a few kgs.

However if you are fat and unfit or have enjoyed a few desserts too many, then getting in-shape is the no 1 priority and will be of greatest benefit. Equally if you are underweight and lack stamina and strength then it is important to build that progressively.

TBH I probably do just lack stamina and the black run was a bit of a jump for me length wise from what i'm used to.

is it worth swapping the tyres anyway? I need some new ones on my Vulcan so I can put the mountain kings on that and the new ones on the banshee.

There will be lighter tyres and stronger tyres and more grippy tyres.
All a tricky balance and very personal.
Might be worth weighing what you've got to see if there's any point.

Something around 700-800g with some puncture resistance would be my choice.
Maxxis Ardents EXO, or a much cheaper version from on-one here:
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/TYOOSM26X225/on-one-smorgasbord-26x225-tyre

(choose Enduro / Folding Bead / Single 60a from the list at £14.99)

I also like a grippier front - On-one have a chunky monkey, Maxxis have a High Roller II but they aren't the lightest. Have a browse through some 'what tyre' threads. There are millions 🙂

Mountain Kings are pretty good tyres, although if they came 'OEM' on your bike (I.e. straight from the shop) then they're probably the heavy/not grippy versions. You might save a bit of weight going for the 'proper' (Black Chili) version and you'll certainly gain grip.

If you are fit with low body fat then unless you actually need to lose weight, there are probably no gains to be had from dropping a few kgs.

Nothing wrong with loosing a few pounds of a bike even if you could loose more of yourself. True it won't make a huge difference in overall speed, but a lighter bike will "feel" quicker and more responsive. For me anyway thats more fun.
If you want to loose weight start weighing the bikes components so you know where you stand. Look for nice bits in the classifieds and ebay. Over the years I've had nice parts bought s/h that have gone from bike to bike and cost very little.

Llandegla is a great place for bashing out the miles, which will ultimately make riding uphill less of a chore. You could actually fit some faster rolling tyres and not suffer a great deal as its hard packed and very rarely muddy. Whilst that won't give you a KOM on the 3 mile climb, it will help a little.

Short of spending more of your hard earned on a new bike, just keep getting as many miles in as you can. Not knowing how you ride, also make sure you are not grinding too big a gear, and keep your cadence up.

If you are just starting out, Llandegla full loop is a good challenge with a couple of punchy climbs that WILL become easier the more you ride.

Don't always think that a lighter bike is the answer though (although it does, generally help!) - Llandegla is my local trail and over the summer I've gone from a 120mm FS "trail" bike to a 160mm FS 29er which weighs circa 2kgs more. Every PB in the up direction has been bettered the more miles I have done.

Get the miles in and the rest will follow!

Was advised to get a full suspension for mac forest and llandegla.

Really? Was this advice given by someone trying to sell you a new bike 🙂

I believe the standard STW answer to weight saving for climbing is to ensure you have a poo at the base of every climb, thereby eliminating any excess weight.

The biggest performance gain for any mountain bike is achieved by buying a road bike and using it regularly.

Don't spunk 1.5k on another mountain bike just keep the one you have got and buy a road bike. My hefty 2004 spesh enduro absolutely thunders uphills now I am four stone lighter.

Tim from Sideways (who sells some of the most expensive bikes you can get) always rode a singlespeed hardtail when we went to Macc and Llandegla. So did I and I'm fat and old.

His mantra was that you don't need to spend more than £500 on a bike to have fun. But a £500 bike will need to be mended more.

That's a good looking bike you've got. Ride it as it is and have fun. Eventually you'll learn which bits you want to replace, and why.

Bikes all feel heavy and hard work climbing. Spending a couple of thousand more won't change that much, but getting fitter will.

I find Llandegla hard work too.

Oh, and Mods - can you put "loose" in the swear filter please?

if you want to spend a few hundred getting the bike lighter then you can do a few things.

going 1x will shift about a 1lb in weight, getting lighter wheels, tubless if the wheels are over 2kg, bar over 280g, saddle over 300g then you can make significant savings. obviously depends how much you want to spend.

best to weight the parts and go from there.

If you're not enjoying the climbs then the last thing you want to do is go 1x - more pedal bob and having to give up the lowest gears which stop your legs falling off. I love 1x10 but it doesn't suit all full-sus bikes or all riders.

Nice to see some positive comments rather than than the usual that Halfords bikes crap buy a £3000 bike.

I ride Macc Forest nearly every week and a its a long climb to the top especially from Macc. I've lost a fair bit of weight and got a lot fitter in the past few months and it made it a lot easier.

If was to make one change, i'd get rid of those tyres not to save weight but your life. I had the same OEM ones on a Boardman and they have zero grip in the wet.

Looking at the photo I would say maybe look at your position on the bike. The stems got a lot of rise and the saddle seems low relative to the bars with the nose pointing up.

A bad position can be inefficient and you will feel it yet it costs very little to fix (if anything) and all bikes will need some fettling from the factory/shop to get them right.

Worst case you might end up swapping out the stem and bars for new ones which don't have to be expensive.

For weight I would say tyres first and see if your wheels can go tubeless. Lots of good cheap 2nd hand wheelsets around if you really want to spend money. Look for something lighter and wider and able to run tubeless. You won't go far wrong with Crest rims and look for a brand name hub so you know they are easily serviceable.

After that just replace parts when they need it. I would predict brakes would be first on your list then just to get more power as you start to ride faster (something like Deore/SLX can be picked up cheap new and are excellent).

Mate has one of those Banshee-X bikes, damn near bombproof.
Enjoy it for what it is, more fun on the way down definitely and just keep grinding out the miles to get fitter, leaner and stronger on the climbs.

They can be made really good with better forks and shocks, I'd spend money there eventually.

How does a better gearset give me more power?

On another note I have been reading and told a number of times that the mountain king 2.2 OEMs are a death trap?

Would it be worth upgrading to the new mountain king 2 2.2?

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/continental-mountain-king-ii-mtb-tyre/

It would actually be nice to get a faster tyre but I also need the grip in the mud and rocks

I'd second riding position - put the saddle up on the big climbs up and down for steep descents.

After that - just get bike fit, my hardtail is 33lb and only a few gears, you get that "I'm not stopping" frame of mind and push at a sustainable push.

I do need a dropper post as currently I find it too much effort to make a height adjustment so I don't bother i.e. I leave it in the middle!

On another note I have just weighed the bike... 15.7kg!

I also have a Carrera Vulcan (2009) model with dart 3 forks which only weights 13.2kg

The front wheel on the banshee weighs (Carrera rims) 2070grams with tyre, hub, brake rotor and mountain king 2.2

The front wheel on the Vulcan (alexrims) comes in at 1900grams however the disk rotor is smaller and i'm not sure if this hub will work with the banshee as its the quick release looks different and stays in the wheel when it comes off. The tyres on pacaracer 2.1 fire XC.

Aren't the rockshox dart 3's supposed to be quite heavy? Tempted to get some better lighter forks for the Vulcan and use that for long runs.

34.5 lbs isnt light, but it isnt that heavy. My Enduro with some decent bits on it weighs about a lb less.

if it was me id spend a couple of hundred quid on some lighter wheels and tubeless tyres ..you'd lose a lb and a half easy where it matters most.

dropper will add the weight back on but at least mean your saddle is at the correct height when pedaling. that will make more difference than losing weight imo

+1. changing the tyres and the stem/bar height (change spacers around and drop stem height). adjust saddle. maybe shorter stem and different bars (depending on reach) pic looks like your sat more upright

Would i have much less grip on the mud with something like the racing ralph over the mountain king 2?

Everywhere i look people seem to be recommending the ralph

Racing Ralph is about as much use in the mud as a skateboard is to a camel.