You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
<script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
A rock flicked up and hit the downtube of my Canyon Spectral and did the damage in the pic - Canyon have said they can't guarantee the integrity of the frame so a crash replacement would be best, but that's ~£1,200 for the full frame (might be less if I can just get the front triangle). Looks to me like it's chipped off a top-coat of something, and the bit underneath looks like metal to me. What would STW do?
What would STW do
Ask for a photo that works.
Fixed now - bit annoying not having the preview function any more for posts :/
A stress-riser like that would worry me if it was near the end of a tube but in the mid part I would worry less. I might drill it out to create a smooth hole first so there's nowhere for a crack to begin (think DH Comet windows) and then I would fill it with Araldite, smooth off and integrate with the frame then carry on riding.
Just when I was thinking I couldn't be arsed applying an invisiframe kit for my new carbon bike this time around. Now I'm having second thoughts!
As for that damage, it looks pretty superficial to me. Not pretty, but I would have thought unlikely to cause problems in that location. Interesting that you think there is metal underneath. I wouldn't have thought so unless there is some sort of strengthening insert in that area.
its a paint / lacquer chip , so unless the frame is made of bone china keep calm & carry on
i find the earlier talk of "drilling out" more worrying than the actual damage though....
Interesting that you think there is metal underneath.
Yeah, would be strange but given the colour that's what it looks like. There are bolt holes for the bottle cage and frame protector on the top / bottom of the tube in that area so might be related to those.
its a paint / lacquer chip , so unless the frame is made of bone china keep calm & carry on
That's kind of my guess too - whatever has chipped off is only about the thickness of a fingernail so I can't see it being structurally critical. Plus I'd have expected to see bits of carbon weave poking out if it was the actual carbon that was damaged.
Get a Barclays bike insurance policy with accidental damage cover and claim. Next time, obvs.
Just ride it, the carbon wont suddenly snap like a metal tube might, it will get weaker overtime and become flexible which you'll notice. I had two knocks likes this on my old frame and rode it for over a year afterwards.
Just ride it. I have much bigger divots taken out of the carbon around the bb and assume that everyone also has similar. Unavoidable really.
Ride on brotha
If the resin lets go you'll see a crack and then as the fibre begins to go you'll hear lots of creaking.
ride it imo
if your worried lacquer it
Thanks all, reassuring that everyone seems to think the same! I already had a fairly big day out on it after I noticed the chip and it didn't explode, so I'll just zip tie an old tyre over it and ride on 🙂
That's just the paint I reckon.. the silvery 'metal' you are seeing is likely just the first layer of carbon catching the light.
Drill it out? 🤣🤣🤣
I’d just ride it - looks superficial to be (but I am in no way am expert on carbon).....
Top layer of carbon bikes is basically just clearcoat, often the first layer of carbon is no more than wallpaper. I don't think any of my carbon components are in as good condition as that frame tbh!
Just when I was thinking I couldn’t be arsed applying an invisiframe kit for my new carbon bike this time around. Now I’m having second thoughts!
Would invisframe have protected against this? Genuinely interested as my next bike will be carbon and will be invisframed - on my current alloy bike I've heard multiple rock strikes over the course of owning it, never found any damage otherwise though. Apart from a couple of rock strikes on the crank at Afan, they did leave marks!
This is one of the problems of going with an organisation like Canyon to get a bike.
I've just cracked my BB area on my 2018 Santa Cruz Nomad and Santa Cruz are replacing my frame with a brand new frame as a good will gesture. I didn't ask them to, I just enquired about crash replacement.
When I had a canyon strive (2015 model) and the chain guide mount (which was mounted to two weak carbon mounting points) broke without a crash (chain got stuck and pulled it off) and also cracked the chain stay (clearly a design flaw), Canyon refused to do anything for months - it took nearly 6 months to get them to do anything.
Whilst there is a cost saving up front, this kind of thing makes it worth buying premium brand.
Except a Santa Cruz of the same spec is without a doubt more than £1200 more expensive than a Canyon Spectral...
"This is one of the problems of going with an organisation like Canyon to get a bike"
Nothing to do with Canyon, it's a rock strike.
Nothing to do with Canyon, it’s a rock strike.
The problem around making a decision to keep on riding on a carbon frame with rock strike damage or buying a new one.
That problem went away for me because of Santa Cruz.
sticker over it and then carry on....
The problem around making a decision to keep on riding on a carbon frame with rock strike damage or buying a new one.
That problem went away for me because of Santa Cruz.
I am not too sure what your experience was but are you saying that SC will give you a “free“ frame if it's damaged by a rock?
"Would invisframe have protected against this?"
I reckon it would. It's surprisingly tough and stops any rock strikes from chipping the paint off. I've used it on 2 carbon frames and there isn't a mark on them after 4 years use. I think it's a no-brainer to cover it, at least on the vulnerable parts of the frame. It's a pain to apply, but it's only a one-off procedure and I've got the knack of it now.
i find the earlier talk of “drilling out” more worrying than the actual damage though….
Me too.
This is one of the problems of going with an organisation like Canyon to get a bike.
I’ve just cracked my BB area on my 2018 Santa Cruz Nomad and Santa Cruz are replacing my frame with a brand new frame as a good will gesture. I didn’t ask them to, I just enquired about crash replacement.
I'm not sure that buying a Santa Cruz is any less expensive than buying 2 Canyons, TBH.
It doesn't look that bad, but one of the genuine problems with Carbon is barely visible impact damage. This can cause delamination, vastly reducing the strength of the component in that area. And you'd only see it on the other side. For aircraft certification purposes, this is accounted for by considering a circular hole, so I certainly wouldn't think drilling it out would make things better (and in the case that there's no delamination, it will make things a lot worse!).
So it's probably OK, but I'd probably look at getting it repaired bearing in mind the cost of a replacement.
I would take it to a local composite fabricator to do a simple patch repair. Drilling it out is not something you would seriously consider unless there was an actual hole punched through it already. This looks more like a simple paint chip, which would be consistent with a small sharp rock strike.
Or just do nothing and ride it. It should become obvious later whether or not there is more structural damage.
"Whilst there is a cost saving up front, this kind of thing makes it worth buying premium brand."
I just couldn't cope with buying a £4k+ bike with an NX drivetrain and Yari fork.
"I am not too sure what your experience was but are you saying that SC will give you a “free“ frame if it’s damaged by a rock?"
I'm saying, based on my experience, I had some damage to a frame which looked like it could be a rock strike, which I declared it as to Santa Cruz (Jungle) expecting to have to pay for a subsidised crash replacement and was given a brand new frame without any charge.
It was a painless and very quick exchange.
Which is the total opposite of what i experienced with Canyon. Which took a huge amount of time, lots of arguing, stress, lies from Canyon, having to send a frame off for months, not hearing anything back etc etc etc.
I just couldn’t cope with buying a £4k+ bike with an NX drivetrain and Yari fork.
Well buy one that comes with X01 and a Lyrik then.
That would be close to £7k I guess. I reckon SC have a different business model compared to Canyon. You effectively pay for a couple of spare frames upfront, hence their "generosity“.
Well buy one that comes with X01 and a Lyrik then.
£7,800 for a Bronson in that spec. F*** that!
Seriously I don't mind spending big money on bikes and great customer service is always appreciated, but SC and some of the other "high end" brands are really taking the piss. So yeah, this time around I'm taking my chances with Canyon, but not expecting too much in the way of customer service if I should smash it to pieces!
Out of interest, after all the hassle and wasted time with Canyon, did they actually sort out the broken frame for you?
Agreed, I'd much prefer a Spectral and pocket £4,000.
Agreed, I’d much prefer a Spectral and pocket £4,000.
Those Spectrals must be cheap*. My Bronson CC V2 (they were only just released) was £4100, XT and Pikes.
*I've owned a spectral too, the Bronson pisses all over it, but it's nearly double the price, so it really should. 🙂
Actually a Spectral 9.0SL with its DT Swiss carbon wheels, XTR 12s and brakes, Fox 36 factory etc etc etc looks like a bargain at £4,500.
Enough change for 3 crash replacement frames too.
Those Spectrals must be cheap*. My Bronson CC V2 (they were only just released) was £4100, XT and Pikes.
I would consider that a reasonable price, but a quick look today suggests that you only get NX and a Yari for £4.5k on a Carbon Bronson, which is not doing it for me at all.
However, I was actually looking at the new Tallboy for a short travel 29er and they are a cool £7,300 with X01, top end Pike and Performance level Fox shock, own brand carbon wheels. So instead I took my chances with a new Canyon Neuron for £4,200 with X01 and full Fox Factory spec shock, fork and dropper, top end DTSwiss carbon wheels. Really no skimping at all on build. You can get almost the same spec with Reynolds carbon wheels and Performance Elite Fox suspension for only £3,100!
So the saving really is in the order of £3-4k. So even if the Canyon frame was a complete piece of junk (which I very much doubt it is), I could literally just throw it away and buy an SC frame to replace it and still not be out of pocket overall!
The only other manufacturers that really compete with the likes of Canyon/YT in value for money are Whyte and Orbea. Both of those are still more expensive like-for-like spec, but by a more reasonable amount considering you can buy from a local dealer.
Oh and it doesn't help that current SC paint jobs are truly horrific, lol! For £7k I'd want custom paint options for sure. Orbea have that one nailed.
Those Spectrals must be cheap*. My Bronson CC V2 (they were only just released) was £4100, XT and Pikes.
*I’ve owned a spectral too, the Bronson pisses all over it, but it’s nearly double the price, so it really should. 🙂
You're probably comparing with the old pre 2018 Spectral so not exactly a like for like comparison. The current Spectral got rave reviews. Having riden it, I would prefer it to a Bronson even if they were the same price, which they are not by a long way, the delta being £3k indeed.
All assuming you pay full RRP, which you will on a Canyon, but really shouldn't on a SC, despite what SC say.
Anyway, we're going way off subject, as ever!.
I wouldn't expect Canyon to do anything about that damage, but if SC would, then all the better.
All assuming you pay full RRP, which you will on a Canyon, but really shouldn’t on a SC, despite what SC say.
Well I managed to get £300 off my Canyon in the end of season sales on a brand new model Neuron CF. Only discount I could get off an SC was on discontinued models and/or some credit at our local dealer. Nothing to make any significant difference to the saving with Canyon.
It's pretty much impossible to put a rational case forward for choosing an SC over a Canyon in terms of value for money at a given performance level. But of course most people choose bikes with their heart rather than their head. Which is very lucky for the likes of SC! For this reason my wife actually rides a Juliana and loves it. It's a very nice bike indeed (even a really nice colour!), but the component build is woefully cheap for a £4k+ bike. Although in fairness she did actually get a discount as it was a cancelled custom order sitting around at end of season.
Be interesting to see what she thinks of my new Canyon when it arrives next week. Same price point, but the build kit is massively better. The SC frame would have to be light years better to justify the difference and I just don't see that being the case. Especially as her's is the budget "C" frame at that price point. The premium layup was another grand or so more.
I'd buy SC every time over the more 'budget' brands because of the extra level of no fuss customer service they offer.
I bought a Bronson in 2014 and here's how they've looked after me...
- 2017 New Bronson 2 frame offered because of crack in paint on original frame - paint is covered on warranty
- 2018 Cracked rear triangle - rock strike. Offered me a whole new frame for £400 cos they didn't have the matching colour or I could take a free second hand one they would take from another bike. I took the free back end.
- 2018 Few weeks later got a pretty nasty rock strike on the down tube and they still honoured the original cost for the rear triangle from a few weeks before - They gave me a full new frame for £400
So that's 2 frames and a rear triangle for £400 - 5 years on from my original purchase. No way you would have got that from other brands with absolutely zero hassle.
Both mine and Mrs M's Specialized down tubes are fitted with invisframe, a double layer of 3M tape from viking tapes and finally a Rock Guardz carbon protector. I've seen too many down tubes dented/dinged by Sussex flints.
Lol carbon sucks
But of course most people choose bikes with their heart rather than their head.
Aye, agreed. Sell on value mibbe, but I wouldn't buy a bike based on that tbh!.
Lol carbon sucks
lol indeed.
Have SC bikes got some sort of brittle bone disease ?
they seem to be snapping like twigs
I'd imagine they have a mass frame graveyard somewhere in the US
So that’s 2 frames and a rear triangle for £400 – 5 years on from my original purchase. No way you would have got that from other brands with absolutely zero hassle.
That's great, but I don't see how giving an extra £4k to SC up front (based on 2019 pricing for an equivalent build) would make any subsequent cheap crash replacement frames seem like amazing value overall. I'd almost feel obliged to deliberately damage my frame just to get my money's worth, lol.
I don't see Canyon as a "budget" brand either. To me they are a premium brand (at least at the top end of their model range) with a direct sales model that saves the customer a small fortune over retail. Same goes for YT. The only potential downside I can see is a lack of customer service, but I can easily compensate for that with £4k to throw at any issues that may arise.
Sanata Cruz are making so much margin on their frames that they can afford gestures like frame replacements which just enhance their reputation. I bet it is the same with Hunt and their wheels.
Are the SC frames made in the US or the Far East?