[Closed] Carb Loading

You might find it easier to consume the additional carbs in the form of a drink, or one of the powders you can use on/in your normal food and drink. Torq do a flavour-free version for exactly this reason.

For that 6hr, I’ll be carb loading as you say from Thursday morning. With solid food this much carbs / cals is quite hard to get down and you’ll feel very full and bloated.

On the Saturday, have a good high carb breakfast and don’t eat for two hrs before the race and ensure you have 80-120g carbs on the bike per hour for the race - I manage this with 1 x beta fuel and 1 x Torq gel per hr.

As scotroutes says, you can use energy drinks/maltodextrin powders to help support the high carb ingestion and - being revamped and therefore available for May - Torq have some carbo load pastas and breakfast cereals at about 120g carbs each, especially helpful if camping as it just needs water only to mix.

Above all, if you haven’t already then experiment beforehand as you can have different reactions to this - you need at least 2 days loading for that Friday ride if you are simulating Mayhem.

I always found that having a big meal of burgers and chips for a couple of nights ahead was as effective as anything. Basically, just eat as much as you can for a couple of days.

To even get to the 6g of carbs per kg I would need to eat 540g of carbs in the 24 hours before a big ride.

Forgive me if I am somewhat indelicate but that suggests your are 90kg and the article you link to is titled triathletes, how many of them were 90kg? Some may have been but I would imagine they are lean? Are you, a less lean person would need less carbs per kg would they not?
Just eat well with carb rich foods the day before and in the hours before and then make sure the fueling is on spec during the ride. If it were me I'd go lower on the gels than Krypton would but would have carb mix in a bottle and mix in in the odd banna and cereal bar. If you do throw down 12 gels in 6 hours test it before to check your stomach can take it

This article contains all the resources you need, just ignore the headline:

https://www.torqfitness.co.uk/news/24-hour-race-nutrition

Forgive me if I am somewhat indelicate but that suggests your are 90kg

Yep! 🙂 but that was 120kgs couple of years ago. And maybe 85kg before MM. Aim for year end is 80kg. And the article says professional triathletes at 10-12g of carbs so it is only suggesting half of that so already a lesser amount.

Normally go with 60-80g of carbs during a hard workout and did similar for 6 hours last week on a half vEverest so not too worried about fuelling during the event. Plus I have an opportunity to try stuff like this out - there aren't any negatives to trying stuff like this so why wouldnt you give things a go.

Hadn't thought about using drinks to increase that quantity - thats a good idea - thanks!

I've never done it but iirc you need to
carefully deplete your body's carb stores prior to commencing carb loading, and from what I've read you shouldn't try it for the first time on a key event, do some dummy runs first.

Long rides I've done in the past I tend to knock caffeine (diuretic) on the head for 3 days prior in order to aid cellular hydration, eat well, and have a big bowl of porridge on the day.

It's also worth considering that for a six hour effort unless you are very strong you will knock the effort back quite a lot so won't need to hit the carbs as hard as a pro who is nailing it for 6 hours. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying fueling isn't important but the high levels I read on packages from gel/drink companies never work for me.

Its correct that Carb depletion rate is dependant on effort, but also worth remembering that in a fully fit and hydrated state you have max 90mins of glycogen in reserve.

To be competitive you'd want to be riding a 6hr at high tempo at least, so you might expect to be depleted at approx 2-3hrs max depending on how hard you go up climbs etc - which will also factor in muscular endurance. You will take a shed load from stored fat, but this is many times more inefficient.

A good read - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6019055/

The reality is, you want to finish the last lap as fast as the first. This has a lot of dependancies from fuelling, your capabilities and your ability to manage efforts accordingly. Other than from a perspective of absorption, waste / indigestion you can't really eat too many carbs during a race.

A really good yet short read with Tables as CHO/g guides is the RP Guide for Endurance by Dr Alex Harrison.

To be brutally honest, unless you figure out exactly what you need to fuel a 6 hour mountain bike effort at the reasonable / non-bimble pace you're aiming at well in advance, any pre-loading is pretty useless.

You need to work up to the event and have a really good knowledge of what your body consumes on a mountain bike ride of that length, and from my personal experience, 6-7 hours on the road covering 160km is nowhere near in comparison, you use an awful lot more energy off-road and therefor require a far greater input due in part to the extra physical effort handling a MTB round a course takes as opposed to bashing out a century on a road bike, and this takes a lot of saddle time at all sorts of effort levels.

Once you have that figured out, you can then figure out what you can actually consume in the lead up to the event, I found that excessive pre-loading doesn't work for me, just eating a bit more than normal, but focusing on normal carbs and protein (rice, potatoes and chicken) intake and then a decent enough breakfast, like a big bowl of porridge and a banana washed down with plenty of squash a couple of hours before and then crack on.

For endurance type events I found that I could compete on an intake of an SiS Gel, Energy bar and a full bottle of Isocarb drink every lap (they're normally 35-50 minutes at these events) and always have a couple of gels and another bar in my jersey pockets if I started feeling like I needed it later on in the event, not so much an issue at 6 hours, but definitely at 10, 12 and beyond - but that's a whole different ball game.

Fluid intake is massively important, you also have to be wary of not drinking enough in cooler
British weather, you simply have to get it in regardless, you'll know if you're over-hydrating as you'll need to pee.

I could go on forever on this, but those are (my) basics.

Having the right foods at the right intervals on the day is probably better than carb loading.

During the event I am comfortable with what I have planned and I am aware that I need to get that right.

But I also have an opportunity to experiment with carb loading so going to give it a go so was just looking to see what people had found. yes the 160km road ride might not burn as much as the 6 hour MTB race might but a road ride will be 4-5k kcal and the race might be 5-6 kcal so its a good opportunity to try stuff and to get things right.

If I get carb loading and in-ride nutrition right then it is a win-win in terms of maximising my own performance.

From my own experience of diet leading up to and during an event I'd only eat foods that you know have worked for you in the past. Don't introduce anything new as this can lead to either indigestion, bonking, lack of strength or even the sh&&s during the event.

Energy drink powders are great during an event as are gels but avoid ones with sweeteners and again only use ones that you already know won't upset your stomach. Supplement these with things like cereal bars, nuts and dried fruit.

For carb loading, I'd avoid really greasy food and try to eat low GI foods ie whole grains and lots of veg with some lean meat. I like to have a bowl of porridge and a hot chocolate before I go to bed the night before.

Dont rely on the food at the event. Bring everything you need, even if this means pre-making meals (chicken, broccoli and brown rice is good if not the tastiest of meals).

Eat a banana just before the start of the event and start eating during the event within the first hour and then again at every hour after this until the finish.

Another good tip that I've being taught (thanks 13thfloormonk), is to do a hard short ride the day before the event. This should be the last ride as part of a taper towards the event. This should wake up your body ready for the big event without fatiguing it much.

At the end, try to record what did and what didn't work for you diet wise pre/during/post event. This way you should learn what works for you.

Good luck and enjoy.

You can also try riding with a heart rate monitor so you can learn your zone efforts.

For a 6 hour race you really want to pace yourself (obviously) but going by my own experience I far too excited and end up going way too fast at the beginning which then means I don't finish as strongly as I could have done.

You'd be looking at a high zone 2 / low zone 3 effort. Obviously you'll fluctuate to different zones on harder or easier sections.
But if you aim for the high zone 2 / low zone 3 effort for the majority of the event then you should get the best out of your body.

Just eat lots and go an have fun?

And take lots of haribo. Althoght I prefer brioche bns with honey in them.

I carb load before any big ride. Or short ride. Or walk to the shops. Or even on days when I just sit on the sofa.

I am in no way an athlete or competitive, which may undermine my position to offer advice.

You’d be looking at a high zone 2 / low zone 3 effort. Obviously you’ll fluctuate to different zones on harder or easier sections.
But if you aim for the high zone 2 / low zone 3 effort for the majority of the event then you should get the best out of your body.

I did a half vEverest last week to give me an idea of pacing (6hrs 40mins). I had a NP of 220w for 6 hours but I think I can go a bit harder than that going into it a bit fresher. Average power isnt very useful because of the descents. Average HR was 140 but during the climbs (about 1hr 20 mins each) it was about 150 so right on the cusp of my Z2/3 so I can go a little harder than that in reality I think (maybe up to 160 on climbs and then allow for recovery).

Wow! @robbo1234biking, they're some hefty power numbers for a 6+ hour ride. I'm sure you'll be fine with that level of output. Out of interest what type events have you completed and what was your placing? You sound fast to me.

Ive never done a race (IRL :))! Ive done a couple of jennrides but that is all other than longer normal type rides. I started training October 2019 as I just enjoy the process and the last couple of years has given me a good chance to really build up the fitness and power.

First three ascents of Alpe du Zwift were 1h20min at 230w with a 10 min rest in between during the descent. The rails came of a bit on the 4th one as I didnt have my planned jam sandwich prior to the 4th ascent as I was starting to fill full. When I realised my mistake I took a couple of gels and started to feel good again on the 5th ascent. Its good to make mistakes on this type of ride 🙂

Also I am still pretty hefty at 90kg so not expecting to place well or anything. I am at about 3.4-3.5 w/kg at FTP - my aim for the climbs on the Alpe was 2.2 - 2.5 w/kg.

Interesting 🤔

I've looked at the Mountain Mayhem and 6 hours should equate to about 12 laps of the 8.2km length and 191m accent course.

Aim to eat something every two laps?
Or just go with carb drinks and gels then stop for 5 minutes after 3 hours for some proper food?

98.2km total length
2292m total ascent

The above in 6 hours sounds very doable, this of course is without knowing how technical the course is.

Not sure how many people will attend this but if it's anything like one of the old Merida Marathons then it will be carnage at the beginning. Until everything settles down and everyone finds their natural place in the race/event. With your numbers I'd recommend trying to get as far forward as possible and putting a strong start in or you'll get bogged down by people who won't be as strong as you are. Or just sit back for the first couple of laps taking it easy then upping the power chasing everyone down. The former would probably give you a higher placing, the latter would be more fun as you'll be passing lots of folk.

Thanks for the info. I will be riding a Orbea Laufey hardtail with a maxxis forekaster on the front and a maxxis rekon on the back so my bike isnt very fast either!

I think my plan will be to sit back for the first couple of laps and just get used to riding that type of event. If that means I get to overtake some people then I will be happy with that. Its quite nice going into it with no expectations other than making sure I get the best out of myself. How that relates to other people is out of my control so I will see where I end up.

Your bike and tyre choice will be fine. I completed the Cairngorm 300 on a Highroller 2/Ardent combo.

Flip your stem and remove all the headset spacers to get a good climbing position. Pump your tyres and fork up nice and hard and you'll be grand.

I've done 'proper' old school carbo loading with a depletion period of effectively zero carbohydrate followed by a couple of days of high carb before a marathon. It worked relatively well, but it is a lot of hassle, and you won't be feeling very jolly in the low carb days. You also feel bloated as each gram of carb you're storing will have some associated water.

For what you're doing I wouldn't bother. Carb loading/depletion was designed for people doing fast marathons, and will hopefully stop you blowing up/bonking till you're at 2hr 10, 15 or so. For a 6 hour event top up your carbohydrates before you start and think about how you'll refuel during the race.

ime eating a good plateful of carbs the night before an early am ride is a good thing to do but the '24hrs before' point doesn't match my experience, by mid-day the muscle glycogen levels may be similar but I don't feel as able to ride hard or I feel more likely to drop in energy.

There's a period between digestion and glycogen levels being topped up and the glycogen being stored as fat, at which point the carb load effect has gone. I think that's 8-10 hours but this is just half-remembered stuff at best.

All in all it only really covers you for 2, maybe 3hrs of fast riding at the most, or perhaps 6hrs of steadier riding.

If you have a gpx file of event route, you can use https://whatsonzwift.com/gpx-to-zwift-workout to make a turbo workout based on it.

For carb loading, I’d avoid really greasy food and try to eat low GI foods ie whole grains and lots of veg with some lean meat.

Ah... but what about 'low residue'? Whole grains, veg and meat hang around the gut for a while (I've read). Big pile o'pasta or gnocchi with a white sauce for the win, maybe Carbonara but light on the bacon? 👍

I’ve looked at the Mountain Mayhem and 6 hours should equate to about 12 laps of the 8.2km length and 191m accent course.

Aim to eat something every two laps?
Or just go with carb drinks and gels then stop for 5 minutes after 3 hours for some proper food?

98.2km total length
2292m total ascent

That kind of pace will see you right at the pointy end of the field, without the stop in the middle. If you look at the recent Dirty Nocka at Cannock, the 6hr was won with a distance of 110km over 6 hours with far less climbing by Ben Askey, little brother of Lewis Askey - probably the best Junior (U18) XC racer in the UK right now and a full time rider for a Belgium Pro squad in their U23 team - to hit 100km you're looking at averaging 16.7kph which is seriously fast and 2.2 to 2.5W/kg ain't gonna get you there.

From my own experience of diet leading up to and during an event I’d only eat foods that you know have worked for you in the past. Don’t introduce anything new as this can lead to either indigestion, bonking, lack of strength or even the sh&&s during the event.

Very much this. Whatever you decide to do, check it works for you. Practice eating regularly on a ride just to check that what you are eating agrees with you. Same for drinking if it isn't water. Go on a long ride on a warm day to see if you get cramp (I have read that often cramp hits you the first warm ride you do, but not necessarily thereafter).

I have become a bit obsessed with carb intake and what spikes blood glucose etc, having Type 2 diabetes due to COVID, it has taken a lot of trial and error to try and increase carb uptake to fuel the fact that i am training harder than i ever have, whilst also losing weight and not spiking blood glucose to get the diabetes into remission, which i have done.

What i have found has worked for me, rather than that big carb heavy meal the night before, is to increase carb intake to about 5-7g per kg of body weight in the 3 days leading up to an event, but then actually have that last meal the night before as a more normal one, and make sure it is not rich, or high fat, so that it doesn't just sit in stomach..

And best thing i have found to load with (for me) as it needs to be low GI, is 75g of jumbo oats, sprinkle of chia seeds, 20g of Huel no carb vanilla protein powder, mixed with 175ml of almond milk for the overnight oats, then add greek yoghurt and a big handful of berries before serving. Very easy to digest, low GI and have that breakfast and mid afternoon plus higher carb meal in evening in the days leading up, and then for the morning of the event.

but again, it has been experimentation with a blood glucose monitor and what works best for me. I know we are all different.

If you have a gpx file of event route, you can use https://whatsonzwift.com/gpx-to-zwift-workout to make a turbo workout based on it.

Or send it to rgt and they will make a magic road of it!