[Closed] Canyon Quality Problems

Canyon Strive owner, 2011 model bought in 2012. First problem was with the reverb (so not a Canyon part), Canyon answered my email within hours, asked me to post it to Fisher outdoors in Windsor. I did, it came back in 8 days from posting and Canyon refunded my postage.
Second issue was with an X0 shifter, the internals broke (again not a Canyon part), Canyon responded to my email within hours and despatched a new one without asking to see the old one - from complaint to receipt of a new shifter took 5 days, even though it had to come from Germany. Other people have complained that they don't answer the phone, but I've never needed to considering the speed they reply by email (uk@canyon.com). I have to admit I've had much slower service through both my LBS.
Quality of the frame is top notch, very well made and finished, one main pivot bearing change in a year isn't too bad considering I weigh 18 stone, only cost about £15.
So, all in all, a very positive experience. I really can't fault them.

I have a 2013 Nerve Al29 which arrived just before easter BH
Arrived exactly when they said it would. Easy to build out of the box
The frame is very well made and has an excellent (anodised) finish. No alignment issues
It rides very well and I am very pleased with it.

I have had two slight problems with it. One was wheel related- loosening bearing adjuster on Mavic ST's. I phoned Canyon UK left a message. They replied within 10 mins and we discussed taking to LBS. After a bit of reading around issue I fixed myself.
Second was that the lower shock mount started creaking. I emailed Canyon, who replied almost immediately with torque values I requested. I took shock off, cleaned bushes and replaced to correct values- not been a problem since. Again I was advised that I could take to LBS and they implied cost would be covered by canyon

I know of four other Canyon bikes in my group of friends- two Strives, a Nerve CF and a Carbon 29er hardtail. I don't think any of them have had any issues at all.

I'm not one for posting on public forums. But on this subject I am going to surface from my rock where I usually lurk.

I am have been suffering the wrath of poor customer service you've heard about from others. But my experience is very worrying and I feel any buyers should be aware when they decide to hand over there cash to this company who are not playing ball with distance selling regulations.

I found a very problematic problem in the frame of the bike I ordered. A manufacturing error. Now having been subject to the manufacturing industries from a young age, I am aware that every manufacturing process has a degree of error, and you get the occasionally frame that will have a hole incorrectly drilled in the wrong position. But this should be identified during the quality assurance process in the factory, or by the mechanic who put the components on the frame.

It wasn't picked up on my 1st bike that arrived.

Following on from this is have spent MONTHS trying to resolve the situation.

I have yet to receive a working bike. The problem in the frame means the hanger is at the wrong angle and the mech cannot operate.

This fault renders the bike completely useless.

In the past few months I have remained calm, and been as understanding and tried to resolve the situation and allow them to provide me with a frame that does not have this problem.

While they have

Hung up the phone on
Pretended not to receive emails
Tell me the colleague dealing with has 'popped out to shops' followed by much s****ing in the background, and an emails from this colleague hits my email seconds later.
Not answering the phone
They sent notification I would receive delivery from courier, so took day off work (and lost a days pay), but no courier arrived. It turned out to be another frame going to the London office where it would supposedly be checked for manufacturing faults.when I called the next day to inform them nothing arrived and discovered nothing was ever coming I received the response 'what do you want me to do about it'

I received replacement hangers as they refused to listen when I sent them pictures and explanation of the frame fault. But surprise.. Suprise this did not correct the mech issue.

Finally received a 2nd whole bike. This time it was missing spacers on the mounting post of the brake, and has a deep scratch right through to the shiny silver under the anodising. How on earth they can send a bike with the brake resting on the disc was beyond me. How can they not notice the the back wheel is physically incapable of turning.

Worst of all the 2nd bike had the same frame fault. Although to be fair this mech could at least reach all 10 gears. Shame it couldn't stay then and jumped back down the gears.

By this point I'd had enough. I requested a full refund. They refused initially, insisted I was not entitled by law as only unused bikes could be returned under distance selling regulations.

No bikes have ever arrived and a rideable condition.no part has ever seen the outside daylight as these bikes were never in working order.

I have advised them to it will claim chargeback on my card. I've been advised there policy is to report the bike is stolen. So I am to go through the embarrassment of the police turning up to retrieve the bike if I claim chargeback.

I have at no point and time refused them to collect the unusable bike. I even recommended they send a fresh box as the current one is trashed from the repeat journeys with the courier.

That's actually another bug bear. The bike guard box the you are forced to pay a premium for is no more than a standard box you get for free when you but any other bike, except the have a square of wood with a hole in it for between the rear triangle.

So... They caved to say they would arrange a courier after some very lengthy emails,and only once the bike arrives back in Germany and is checked over shall I receive a refund. I am looking at about 2 weeks delay for a refund.

I am not accepting that. Due to the way I have been treated and their determination not to refund, I will claim back on my card and wait for the police to arrive if ups doesn't show up

I have pictures and further details if anyone wants then of the frame fault, I seen 2 bikes with this fault. The fact that I was already sending one back for this fault suggest this is a fault that model wide and was not a random sampling type of error from the manufacturing process. As surely if the first frame was just an error that sneaked through quality assurance, then you would be very particular to ensure the 2nd frame you supply does not have the same fault to any degree. However, neither frames enabled correct indexing.

Whatever you do, DO NOT PAY USING BANK TRANSFER!

Use credit card only if you must order from them. As you won't have a legal to stand on if they refuse to refund like they did with me.

Apologies for the errors! Predictive text and change to my there, their and there's for me

My experience with them was very positive. They let me know that there would be a slight delay (2 days) on delivery and gave me a free extra saddle to compensate.

Canyon Roadlite 6.0.
Bike setup and quality has been spotless. Only tweak was re-indexing the gears a few weeks in which I assume was due to cable stretch.

I would recommended them, their prices are incredibly competitive.

I got a free saddle too very early on. When there online payment system wouldn't work. It's how I ended up using debit card instead of credit card. Which left me with a lower level of payment protection. And don't they know it! They have told me word for word exactly what protection I have/don't have according to them with my chosen payment method.

Credit card problems often are because the merchant acquirer is either not getting paid or there have been significant chargebacks being applied by customers.

I used to see this a lot with bike shops and distributors that had cash flow problems.

Anyone else have anything to share?

Have had a Nerve AM for 2 years. Out of the box the bike was good. After a couple of weeks I had a problem with the Fox Talas fork - not Canyon's fault. Customer service was excellent, they arranged for the fork to be sent to Mojo and I had it back in perfect working order within a week. Can't fault them.

Small niggles are that a replacement headset seems only to be available through Canyon, but wasn't too expensive, mech hangers are expensive and the postage from Germany for small parts is expensive.

Can't comment on the customer service really as i haven't needed it, but quality-wise mine (29er hardtail, October 2012) has been great. No problems with frame or parts.

dunno if that helps!

A number of the club I ride with have Canyons and no major issues. one has also had a Reverb issue quickly resolved by Canyon UK and another had a problem with his Cobalt wheels, but this was sorted by the LBS and Canyon covered the cost.

As with all online only bike purchases, costs are reduced in a number of areas including one the fact that you can't just pop into a nearby premises to resolve a query. However they do seem to deal pretty quickly with any issues, so that would be good enough for me if I was in the market for a new bike.

Had two canyons, first alu hardtail developed problems with the Dt swiss fork. I sent it to dt swiss, forks developed same fault again, fixed them myself. But that was a dt issue, the rest of the bike and canyons part in the repair was flawless. Liked it so much, I bought a cf version when they released it, and will be buying my third canyon very soon indeed...

Mine was basically all good. Couple of minor clips missing and a scratch from packing. Knocked me £50 off (or offered to take it back and replace it). I opted for the £50, as it is a mountain bike and meant to be covered in scratches.

My next bike will likely be from a "direct sales" supplier again.

Got the Nerve Al+ back in April and had no real problems, had a few queries which can seem like they take an age to answer when it's e-mail tennis but they do resolve all queries. In my experience and that of other purchasers its a great way of getting a great bike. To be honest the only person with a negative experience has a habit of appearing on any forum with the word Canyon in it, like a personal crusade.

I've two points:

A: we had a thread a year back that got resurrected every few months by a different new poster whinging about being ignored and no-one answering the phone. They never posted about anything previous or since. Fortunately he's been quiet for a while.

B: I would happily buy another (if I couldnt get a similar bike locally for the ballpark cost). I'd make sure I ordered a spare mech hanger along with the initial purchase though: the £12 ish postage cost afterwards stings a bit.

Have one. Love it.

Arrived with a broken mech hanger. E-mailed them the pictures and one was on its way within a week. They even paid for me to have the mech replaced and the gears indexed by my LBS.

Bearings started to creak within a year and were replaced FOC by them. Small problem of one bolt by the cranks working its way loose on the trails but luckily another STWer was around to sort it for me when I was in Spain. Mechanic's fault for not torque-ing or "Loctite-ing" the bolts. Took it back to them soon as I was in the UK. Seemed like mechanic was a bit of a duffer. New mechanic "Loctited" all of the bolts, even bled my brakes for me and the bike has been on a few uplift days since with no problems.

To be fair to their duffer mechanic, he did do fit my 2x10 + clutch mech setup for free.

Our household has since purchased another one (road bike for the missus).

Next road bike is definitely going to be from them I reckon.

Really surprised to hear the problems the guy above has had. Alex, Damir and Martin at the Kingston HQ have been pretty solid to deal with. The duff mechanic they had was pretty crap at ringing me back and answering e-mails to be fair, but he's long gone now.

I think pinkfish was the forum guy...???

Good spot super furry dude!

The pink one returns with a new name maybe?

Normal folk should engage a pinch of salt or a sense of humour.

I've just had a nerve AL8 hd it about 6/7 weeks, had no trouble so far. Would order another one tomorrow if the bank account would let me!
I think whoever you order the bike from they could have problems.

I have seen similar stories to apinkone's on numerous forums none of which stack up, all contain a mega rant but never real specifics about the problem.

I can't even see how the frame would prevent the rear mech working as indicated in his post, rather it sounds as simple as gears need setting up. Your rear triangle and derailleur hanger can be miles out after crash damage etc and years of frame abuse yet you can still adjust to get smooth gears.

Good spot sync: But that's an amazing coincidence: both pinkone(~fish?) and apinkone registered as new members on exactly the same day a few weeks back.

Well blow me down. I thought (s)he was too quiet recently.

May I refer the OP to another thread on a well known bike forum:

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10002&t=12789920

55 pages of customer experiences, the vast majority of which are good. There have been a few sagas (none quite like the one above mind!) but most people were either very happy from day 1 (me included) or were after a few niggles were sorted. The odds are in your favour!

Now shackster: that might well be genuine. But you've registed yesterday.

And I suspect that we're all getting our chain w(y)anked today.

#'Edit - given the number of folk and ID's doing this - its got to be some sort of commercial negative SPAM thing.

Fair point, given the previous posts, but I am a real canyon owner, I promise. Go check out my posts on the other website 🙂

I registered here as I was getting bored of the other place!!

Ok: shackster- that's a fair point (I post over there sometimes too). If that's really you over here then I expect a lot more posts here!

Anyway, I got drawn into a bullshit discussion about a year ago.
Then there were a series of about 5 bullshtters that I ignored all in about 3 weeks.

All whinging about the same thing.

So anyway. This post / replies has my back up. There is something else going on. IMO.

I'm a happy 2011 Strive owner. I've had various dealings with Canyon over the years and can't praise them enough. Had a problem with my Reverb seat post earlier this year and boom, sorted it. Last month I sent them an email regarding pivots bearings, they sent me new one's as a good will gesture. Would buy another in a heartbeat.

I bought a Nerve 7.9 in April. Arrived exactly on schedule in perfect condition. No problems.

I did email Germany once about a parts diagram and got an answer back in 4 hours.

The rear Fox CTD shock started to weep oil recently. A common problem.
I posted it to Mojo for a warranty repair and got a confirmation of delivery the next morning then confirmation of dispatch back to me that afternoon !

I must admit I think some of the problems people report are being manufactured by disillusioned LBS types.

Canyon having just been voted brand of the year by the readers of a German mountain bike magazine, one of the criteria being customer service.

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Evening gents.... Guess what... A pink one... Is a gal.

With a skilled mechanic other half who has seen this frame default more than once. Several of your big name manufacturers use this type of hanger with a tab system.

Thing is I actually have a life, and as it was a Friday night I was out in a restaurant with my real live friends rather than responded to your suggestions that I am a troll.

Now..... I have photos of the frame issue that prove all. I will stick them up tomorrow if you bear with me until I get some sleep.

Anyone who is in the central scotland area may indeed recognise me and can vouch for me. As they will know that I have been dealing with this over the months since this began..... Back in JUNE!

The mtb community is not big in scotland. Someone will recognise me, and can shout up that my first ever dealing with this was recently and I am not a forum troll from 1 yr ago.

Does it not occur to you guys that this is different people being treated the same way? Where are the alarm bells?

For every good customer service, there is some very wrong bad customer service and failing to keep to get the legal requirements and protection for UK consumers.

By all means... Call me a troll,.... No wonder people lurk when you jump on them for giving their experiences.

I really did not want to specifically name the employees on a public forum. But one of those names you listed there is one which is supposedly resolving my case. However, this is the person who said ' what do you want me to do about it '.

Here's the thing too that might help on your troll quest... I don't rate LBS any better. I've yet to get a bike from a shop that arrives any easier. I use online retailers alot. I like them. Particularly those that use couriers like collect+ service as it's super handy to return items the wrong size to local drop off point as I often order mens clothing items as women's are rubbish. And it takes a few tries to get sizing correct. So I am definitely not pioneering LBS.

Von, that is utter bobbins with Canyon...given the amount of positive stuff, it is a real shame that when they fail they do it as spectacularly well as they do the good bits. I hope you get it sorted out...they appear to be good bikes so hopefully this saga will be resolved quickly.

apinkone - I'm interested in seeing your photos, post them up.

Re- credit card chargebacks, when you fill in the claim form you need to supply proof of return IE.tracking number.The item is the property of the card company until you have accepted the transaction.
From the sellers point of view it is theft if you do a chargeback without first returning the item.

It's always best to deal with the organ grinder rather than the monkey.
Get the name of a person in Germany and deal with them only. Sounds to me like you've created confusion !

Maico, pics are on my phone, I am on the ipad the now and going to bed so not going to upload at midnight. I will share the pics of frame fault, brakes that were missing spacers and scratch the one bike arrived with.

My case was passed to Germany (well very heavy Germany accent) gent when first bike went back, then big hoo ha and supposedly passed to another gent by one of names above. But I would swear on anything that it was the same guy.

The funny thing is they also blamed the mess on a mechanic, and said I wasn't being ignored, and that it was a mechanic who was rude and hung up the phone on me and he was now sacked. And that the reason my second frame never got ordered was because the mechanic who got sacked never did it.

So you guys have possibly uncovered a common story they feed all their complaints issues to buy them more time.

Oh.. And I want to return the item. They were refusing to accept it. I was going to chargeback as a method of forcing them to refund and collect. Been dealing with them today. Taking yet another day off on Monday for ups to collect the bike.

Apparently they hold a database of all warranty claims. Only when a warranty claim exceeds a certain level do they do anything to correct a manufacturing default.

Going to bed. Will come back tomorrow and give you pics and an update. No more trolls claims guys please till I get back. Behave yourselves and go ride your bikes 😉

I don't think it's a common story they feed the punters. I've been to their HQ to drop the bike off, dealt with the duff guy and also met his replacement who has been pretty straight up with me. This was around May-June.

I was quite patient with the duff one because I really needed my bike for a trip overseas. Didn't think it'd be a smart move to antagonise the guy who's fixing my bike. Plus you catch more flies with honey and all that.

If the service is so pants and you're sure you're within your rights then lawyer up, or threaten to lawyer up. I'm sure you'll get the outcome you deserve that way. I'm not sure if you're serious about police turning up if they don't send a courier.

Currently have 2 canyons in my bike shed.

I have the Roadlite Alu Sl, had this bike since may an hasn't dropped a beat, great road bike i use it day to day for training rides and more leisurely rides with friends. Can't fault the quality and tbh it still hasn't needed a first service which is remarkable i thought i would be tinkering with gears/brakes by now but nothing.

Other canyon is a Nerve and its a great piece of kit. Again as above its just worked out the box and does the job.

First one i ordered i had a few issues with Barclay Card there excuse was its for a large purchase in germany blah blah, eventually got them to pay canyon. The second time i called barclay card first and told them i was purchasing a bike from germany, they held open a 4 week window for a large purchase so second time went through ok, neither canyons issues.

looks like a mix of good and bad - perhaps highlighting that ALL bikes get niggles and it's just a bit harder to resolve problems when the bike has been bought mail order.

I guess that the price is so good on these bikes because you are buying at factory gate prices and there's no distributor or LBS margin (typically 24% - 33% each) - the obvious issue is that that extra fat margin provided a better customer experience.

I saw a picture of the rear disk on [b]apinkone[/b]'s bike - whilst it's a ten minute job to put the right brake caliper post mount extender on the bike I can't believe they let the bike out of the factory like that. The scratch wouldn't bother me but would bother people because it is pretty deep and would put off anyone if you were trying to sell it afterwards. It's properly obvious.

I sold Formula disk brake systems online in the 90's - it was a bloody disaster because of about 50 sets I sold, more than half came back with faults. So I know what it's like and it cost me a small fortune having to "put it right" for customers. Trying to maintain customer expectations in an online context is very very difficult, especially if you sell stuff below normal RRP levels.

uploading the pics the now. i will copy and paste their words on the frame and returns policy.

I checked out canyon online first for reviews and to see other threads for people's opinions on the service as i was aware i was sacrificing the ability to go into a shop and see the item.

The reviews were all fab. I never came accross anyone who had received a bike which simply [u]did not work at all[/u]. Neither did i see any where they had any issues with refunding so it seemed like my money would be safe.

Bear in mind guys, i ordered a Torque DH bike. They have taken several thousands of pounds from me! and not provided a working bike,and been unable to get me a frame that can correctly attach a rear mech too!

and only once they started sending me replacement bikes that were in worse condition than the original did I decide that enough was enough and I wanted my money back.

But.. UPS are coming. But as with it being Canyon they cannot specify a day it will be collected. But this I was aware of from the reviews, so I suppose I cant really moan about it. Since posting this I have now finally had a full apology and some wording about the frame default which I will post up for you all with the pictures.

You can believe or not believe me, but if these post save at least one person from being lumbered with a Torque which is not actual in proper working order then its been worth it.

But Canyon buyers should be very wary of this part of their returns policy . When I asked for a refund, I was told they would prefer to send a 3rd frame. I did not want to go through this any longer and just wanted my money back. This is the initial reply

[i]For the sake of completeness, our return policy is only valid for unused items. This means you cannot force us to return the bike for a refund. You can only ask for a refund if an issue is not solved after the 3rd time or if we refuse to help, this is not the case. If you charge back the amount, we are forced to report the bike as stolen, as our terms clearly state that unpaid items are our property.[/i]

[b]Then I had to further argue the bikes had never been used[/b]

You guys are more than entitled to believe Canyon are the best company since sliced cheese.

But the forums need to contain people's bad stories aswell. You lot need to learn not to jump on anyone who gets a bad experience, as they are just as entitled to express their opinion too.

How do I get the pics on here?

http://singletrackmag.com/forum-help/
check out the help

Canyon Torque owner here. Zero problems and it survived a week in the Alps and trips to Glencoe, Innerleithen and fort William.

Ach this is why I just lurk normally. right I need to go get them onto the tinterweb so I can get them to post. This is going to take time as I dont keep pictures online other than fb.

boardinbob - dont get me wrong. The bike looked amazing and everything else about it was very well made. No doubt rode brilliant. But Canyon cant keep trying to force customers to accept faulty goods. Out of curiosity, is yours 10 speed? And how do you find its shifting?

ok lets give this a bash. Hopefully the picture will be here.

This is how the 2nd bike arrived. Still sporting the frame problem.

Now bear in mind I am already a customer who has sent one frame back for a problem. The 2nd arrived with brakes calipers resting on the brake disc and you can clearly see screws/spacers/post arent as they should be.

[url=

[/url]

It also had a scratch right down through all the anodising. I ordered a new frame, not a used or cosmetically damaged one. Why on earth should I accept this in this condition.

[url= ?noCache=1377945340]scratch[/url]

If this works will move on and put the frame issue in one post

Larger pics would help and I am still at a loss as to what your original problem was re-mech.

you can't change gears so you show a (very small) picture of a brake rotor???

starting to suspect operator error. of technical son-in-law syndrome.

attached on this one is a picture of the hanger to help explain the frame problem.

on the top of the hanger there is threaded hole. A bolt goes through the frame and into the hanger from the top. That wee tab sticking out the top of the hanger goes into a pre drilled hold in the frame.

Without the wee tab, the hanger will turn 360 degree on the bolt that attaches it to the frame.

So.. this wee tab goes into the frame at a specified angle. That angle is the optimum angle to ensure you mech is hanging in the correct position to work.

[url=

Canyon Hanger[/url]

Now... several bike brands ( large and small) use this type of hanger system. Its does the job fine if the hole is correct.

To show you the problem that occurs when it is incorrect its best to show you pictures using a hanger straightening tool attached to the hanger.

Here is the tool on the bottom of the rim. All is fine. Its where it should be.

[url=

tool at bottom[/url]

Here is the tool at a 90 degree angle. Its around [u]35mm[/u] out from where it should be!!!

[url= ?noCache=1377946237]hanger tool further round[/url]

This was the first frame/bike. The 2nd frame/bike had a discrepancy on the tool of around 20mm.

Now anyone who has bent a hanger knows how annoying it gets when your mech is a mere 5mm out of whack. Imagine 35mm.

The first bike was unable to work at all. The chain could not stay on any gears. The 2nd could at least keep the chain on the cassette a little.

And... due to the design of hangers being that they are sacrificial in the event of a fall. If you attempt to "straighten" the hanger. By that I mean bend the perfectly correct hanger to suit the incorrect hole, the wee tab breaks off and you need a new hanger.

You can attempt to straighten the hanger a little if the hole is slightly incorrect. But in the case of both these frames, attempting to mend it 20-35mm would result in the hanger tab shearing off.

This is Canyons response yesterday after I advised them I was going to put this information online. They finally gave me a real apology and some explanations.

[i] We have ordered a replacement frame to swap the frame as in minor cases it can indeed happen that due to a welding process, a misalignment can occure[/i] - this was there explanation for the hole being in wrong place.

But then further in same email they put this which they blame it on hanger. Now that rubbish. As they sent alternative hangers indivdually which arrive undamaged in bubblewrap and they made not an iota of a difference.

[i]you describe it as a faulty production process of all of our Torque frames? We have a database where we gather warranty cases since 7 years. We have a very god and detailed picture about common failures, weak spots, etc. The fact that the gear hanger bended, has nothing to do with a faulty frame. The gear hanger is a sacrifical part and designed to break in case of outer impact or to much tension on the drive system. During transport,
it can happen that the gear hanger gets bended, this is something we cannot exclude happening.[/i]

So... you have all the information to make up your own mind guys! This is just my experience with Canyon.

I've got real life stuff to do shortly! But I will try and come back tonight and see if anyone has any questions about these pictures.

B45sher - see above post where I said if the picture posting worked that I would put the frame issue in a single post... jeeze!!

The thing is, i might have gone through the rigmarol of waiting for a 3rd frame. But on receipt of the 2nd frame, I sent them pictures of its problems, very simply asking why have you sent me another unuseable bike.

The reply from one of your names listed above was

[i]I saw the bike only when I checked the packing, its just frustrating. We tried to get it straight and failed.
Sorry.[/i]

so... they couldnt fix it. But sent it anyway?

How many female cyclists own a hanger straightening tool ?

Exactly.

So are you saying the hole that the hanger bolts through on the rear dropout, and/or the little locating lug/hole on the hanger itself aren't straight hence when you mount the hanger and mech they're at an angle/ squint rather than being straight? If so, that's bizarre. I can't see how that could happen. Can you mount the hanger and get it bolted up, albeit it at an angle?

Another question, have you tried and failed to get the derailleur mounted and working or do you just think it looks skewed and you're using the tool to confirm that?

I fished the pics out to help out.

apinkone's other half is a bike shop guy and is pretty well known. apinkone herself is an enduro rider, rides the odd race and is well known for crashing pretty hard and breaking limbs!!! We rode in the same enduro race last year and I think in a backyard race down another hill local to here. (most people know me btw. I was involved in setting GpFAR Enterprises Ltd which became some no-name mag and website as well as running a bike company and am local trailbuilder in these parts)

So - what's happening here is a mech tool has been screwed into the mech hanger hole. Then what you do is swing it round the wheel and it should be equidistant from the wheel (so long as the wheel isn't buggered as well)
[img] [/img]

and here it is at the other angle, 180' round. See how the cylindrical bit is now touching the wheel.
[img] [/img]

Wow - Maico I am not even going to respond to you anymore. What a sexist comment. Perhaps your just jealous that my tools bigger than your.

BoardinBob - you have some real questions, its hard to explain via words and singular pictures.

But your almost there. The hole for the bolt that attaches the rear frame to the hanger seemed fine on both frames. Its the wee hole drilled in the frame for the lug to rest in that dictates the angle the mech hangs at.

In the interest of doubters.. canyon have investigated and agreed with the findings. There explanation was that during the welding process is to blame for misalignment( **See above where I copied and pasted in italic there exact wording).

But they could not provide me with a frame without this problem. so sent another with same problem, but slightly less prominent. ( and threw in missing brake spacers and a scratch for good measure)

yes.. I have tried deraillers. Even tried another brand new Shimano one to see if it was the mech that was at fault or compatibility uses with the SRAM.

I really did like the bike and wanted one that was in working order. But they just couldn't supply me with one, then got in a right mess when I asked for refund.

I did put above the what happened with derailler on. The first bike could not hold a chain on. The 2nd would hold the chain but jumped constantly.

Both bike arrived with their mechs attached.

If anyone else is having problems with this information coming from a female. Perhaps go back and read where I said my other half is a bike mechanic, and who started off many moons ago as an apprentice in big Als wheelcraft. Which is well enough known in scotland that you should quit with the trolls comments. He's taught me loads so far. But there is admittedly stuff I wont touch. I am not allowed near the bearing my DW Link... infact I am not allowed near any bearings. But of course.. where would I find the time with all the dishes to wash, and clothes to iron 🙄

aww shucks thanks rapid.

ace job on the pictures.

yeah, I won that local enduro for the ladies remember! still got my wee bell I won as a prize.

And yup.. good at the injuries. Right now I am on active fun ban after I crashed on north third in June. Missing most of the local race calendar for this year. Shoulder is so badly busted that if there is no marked improvment by 19th September then I will be referred for surgery. 🙁

The canyon was funded by my insurance claim from the accident.

from what I can make out in this picture, this is a standard two part mech hanger that's quite common nowadays on big bikes. The idea is that it will break before the frame breaks. The lug (see the arrow I put on) locates into a hole drilled into the frame and it is bolted down.

It is crucial that the hole drilled into the frame is EXACTLY in the right place, otherwise the replaceable mech hanger will sit slightly sidey ways. If it sits more than an allowed tolerance, then any normal SRAM or Shimano mech will not work because the chain will not be parallel with the cassette teeth and it will try to jump up the gears or it will try to jump down.

[img] [/img]

it seems that apinkone's bike has a problem in this area which means it will not work - no amount of fiddling will make it work as far as I can see. You could try to extrude the hole in the frame but the danger would always be that the replaceable mech hanger would twist under load round the bolt that holds it to the frame.

If it was an old or 2nd bike then I would consider tapping in a smaller 2nd bolt - but this is a brand new bike.

here's the pic from the disk brake. not really a biggy, it just is missing some washers. What's happening here is that the adapter hasn't raised the caliper high enough so that the calipre body is touching the outer edge of the rotor.

[img] [/img]

As rapidescent says the brake just needs some washers between caliper and mount, you should be able to get them from any shop.
The other issue is a bit more of an issue, presumably it's a 2013 frame, maybe you could ask for a 2014 frame. Wouldn't remove all the hassle you've had but at least it'd be less likely to have the same issue. That's presuming the frame has been tweaked a bit for this year.

More pressing issue is how you get out of the kitchen long enough to ride/race/compete 😉

Wow - Maico I am not even going to respond to you anymore. What a sexist comment. Perhaps your just jealous that my tools bigger than your.

Love this. Best put down come back I have heard in a while.

Why should I fix anything. I paid for a working bike.

You wouldnt order a brand new car and keep it when you discovered the wheels wouldnt turn. You would return it for another.

Just because its a bike and the price was cheap doesnt mean you need to accept these faults.

plus one - I dont have any ball and chain. I only enter the kitchen if i'm hungry.

Been watching this thread with interest - I hope Canyon have been too!

apinkone - good on ya for speaking up - bike buying experiences should be shared - both good and bad

Apinkone - how come when you got the second bike and it was so crap out the box you used it ? Your post suggests the reason they wouldnt refund was cos it was used. Maybe I've misread it, but surely if it was deeply scored and things misaligned you could have got refund "unused" at that stage ?

Sounds a total nightmare..

Iainc - you have misread. [u]I have at no point and time used any bike[/u][/b]

What I said was that one of Canyons many reasons to refuse my refund was because [u]they[/u] ( not me) decided to categorise the bikes as used.

I then had to get them to define their definition of used/unused. Whereby it was decided any bikes i had been in possession of were classed as unused and I was eligible to a refund under the distance selling regulations.

Out of interest, have you tried dropout alignment tools on the frames? If the RH dropout is welded on squint it'd cause this problem, and that's perhaps more likely than the dropout being machined wrong in the first place.

Bencooper -an answer from my other half who is assuming you are able to understand this answer in mechanics jargon since you asked this question. Answer) its an x-12 syntex (sp?) Bolt through. Frame is inline. Hanger hole squint. Wheels sit straight and are true.

But... Again. We are making no attempt to fix the bikes. Why should we. I paid for a working bike.

Apinekone, I did misread, sorry.

What a crap experience indeed 😥

Got my head round this quite easiliy - as has Ben Cooper (i think 😉

The alignment tool indicates something is out of wack. But that only needs to be a few degrees at the hanger to reference a 35mil tolerance 13" further out at the rim.

Either:

1. The drop out is distorted or the chainstay / seatstay it's welded too is distorted (probably during the welding / heat-treating itself)
2. The threaded hole through the drop out is not perpendicular to the drop out / wheel. Possibly not set properly during machining.
3. The threaded hole through the mech hanger (breakaway part)is not perpendicular to the face where it connects to the frame
4. The rear end is misaligned on the drive side.
5. The drop out face is not square.
6. The mech hanger face is not square.

If a new mech hanger (which has been inspected) has been tried then the problem lies in the drop out and or the rear swingarm.

I guess only Canyon would have the tools and inspection equipment necessary to pinpoint the problem precisely if its not the hanger.

I had precisely the same problem on a Cube Fritzz. CRC couldn't isolate the problem (other than to establish it was not the hanger tab) so the rear end was replaced in its entirety.

here's a brand new frame (from Canyon's website). This seems to be a different mech hanger arrangement and different rear brake mounting. what do you think? maybe this is a known problem.

(it was a Torque FRX you got apinkone?)

[img] [/img]

That's the same frame/setup with the syntace x12 rear axle

Yes, that's the Syntace set up - its the same on any bike using that design.

As I set out above there's a fair bit to (potentially) go wrong. The linkage / drop out in the pic above has a machined slot on the inner face to accept the 142mm axle. If that face isn't perpendicular to the axle for example - you nip up the axle and the linkage will twist until the two faces are square. Ergo your mech alignment goes out of wack.

This was the case with my bike. I simply inserted the axle (without the wheel) then set a tri square on it. I then set a small steel engineers rule (on the Inner face of the drop out) at what should have been precisely 90 degrees to the tri square. You could see by the angle created bewteen the two straight edges that it was out by fair few degrees. I took some pics and fired them off to CRC. New rear end...

As for how Canyon have dealt with the problem I'd have to re read the post 😉 However, it does highlight the potential pitfalls of distance selling / the Canyon model versus your good ol' LBS 😉

Yippee... You got it! Thanks to rapddescent for getting those pictures bigger and drawing in the arrows.

Canyon agreed very quickly that the frame was misaligned. The problem was rather than sending a working frame, they sent more duff frames with additional problem, then when I ask for a refund they refused.

After a battle ( and this going public) they have agreed to collect, but will not refund until they have the frame back and they inspect.

I think after all the hassle and since they agree with the fault I should be refunded the same day the courier collects it. Not 2 weeks after the bike leaves here.

keep us informed apinkone on how it goes. Hopefully common sense has prevailed and that Canyon will sort this out.

+ if Canyon do sort this out, then it shows their whilst their customer care processes need a bit of tightening they will have actually sorted out a complicated matter - and that's a good thing. I'd buy a Torque FX off them too. I need a bike to replace my ageing (but lovely) Bullit.

+ I'd also make a wee suggestion, as an old boy in the trade, that treating your customers by default as criminals stealing bikes is dumbass.

+ It's worth mentioning to future Canyon customers that bike companies occasionally have production difficulties - it happens - I made a whole business out of the mistakes that Proflex made during the manufacturing of their suspension parts. They key is sorting it all out and keeping that customer loyal so they tell other people and get it sorted.

Hmmm... Definitely will make me think twice about buying a DH bike from them if there are problems this complex. When my Nerve arrived with the mech hanger broken I spent a good half hour trying to work out why on earth I couldn't get the rear wheel in!

Fair play to apinkone for persisting with getting them to resolve the problem. Seems pretty unlucky that she got two Friday evening special builds in a row though.

Just to confirm, they couldn't provide me with a frame without the default. The 3rd frame that they offered was to come from a fresh batch of frames being made. With a lengthy waiting time which even if I hadn't decided on a refund, I would not have waited on.

From your picture rapiddescent- its very slightly different to the 2 frames I seen. But still same syntax bolt and tab system.

Curious - I had no point to perservere with them. My options were to accept the faulty bikes ( which wouldn't work), or argue for a refund after they refused initially.

Ach.. If they'd had better customer service and not hung up phone,been rude,etc.... Then it might have been worth putting up with waiting on the 3rd frame.

But they had been so bad that I don't want to deal with this company any longer. There are other company ( mail-order and LBS) who fall over themselves to help you when you find a problems 100% of the time.

That who deserves my money.

I will let you know if they make any contact again.

Bike is sat waiting on courier. I am sat waiting on refund so I can order a bike elsewhere.

The hanger mounting seems similar on a lot of Canyon models

Torque EX
[URL= http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/m444uk/torque_ex_highlight_3.jp g" target="_blank">http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/m444uk/torque_ex_highlight_3.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

Nerve 29er
[URL= http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/m444uk/nerve_al_29_highlight_4.jp g" target="_blank">http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/m444uk/nerve_al_29_highlight_4.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

Torque FRX
http://www.canyon.com/_en/mountainbikes/series/torque-frx.html

It's curious that only the FRX frame is distorted. I've not read any other posts about this anywhere.

If the hole for the tab on the hanger is squint then you shouldn't be able to even attach the hanger. If you can then I assume the chain stay or seat stay is skewed. Either way it does sound poor from Canyon

Boardinbob - sorry, but your wrong. Lets agree to disagree. You have been lucky to get your Torque in working order. I am a little envious! It was a thing of beauty.

Maico - Should you not be out polishing your ratchet drivers?

See my earlier post where i said

With a skilled mechanic other half who has seen this frame default more than once. Several of your big name manufacturers use this type of hanger with a tab system.

>It's curious that only the FRX frame is distorted. I've not read any other posts about this anywhere.<

Guess that depends how many forums you are covering / how many complaints are taken on to the web.

As I said, I had an identical problem on my Cube and I'm reasonably certain it was a heat treating / weld alignment issue at that knuckle. You could see it distorting as you screwed in the axle. You'd have thought that's the one area they'd be running a gauge on, on every frame out the door.

Its a good idea (the Syntace X12) but its not perfect. Despite the fact there's a male / female interface the mech hanger tab can still rotate a few degrees when you nip up the pinch bolt. That alone is enough to bu88er up the shifting.

Guess that depends how many forums you are covering / how many complaints are taken on to the web.

I read a couple of German forums and Bike Radar.

Alloy bike frames are often realigned after welding. There are videos on Youtube of the process, it's quite brutal.

I've been to Canyon in Koblenz. The bikes are built up and run through the gears.

It's quite a big operation more than 40,000 bikes a year.

They don't check each frame alignment on jig as far as I could see, that should have been be done in Taiwan.

Carbon frames are x-rayed for faults.

theblackmount - yes! On all counts.

Also on the complaints... If I knew it was going to be this hard to explain online, and posters would turn on me. I wouldn't have bothered.

I learned not to buy from Canyon, and not to post on forums a bad review. As neither is easy.